See my response to @HoustonHusky . I don't operate in that crowd. Too low brow for a big-time corporate lawyer who fills his days filling his briefs with filler information and then hitting the links.
Maybe they are only antisemitic. I don't really know. Or maybe they're pretty enlightened and welcome all members. I kind of doubt that. The group in Portland has a pretty bad rep and has attracted some skinhead peel offs from what I've read / heard. To be fair, I've also read/heard that the group tries to limit that particular element.
I'm guessing that if you ran with that bunch you'd probably encounter more than a few racist people, but then that can be said about a lot of groups.
I know one thing: Cubans can be pretty racist. It never occurred to me that black-Cubans could be racist against themselves. Damn.
Here's my serious guess: the people who started the group's organization were pleasantly surprised to learn that there are black Hispanics who are REALLY FUCKING CONSERVATIVE and were like, "we hit the jackpot! bring those guys in!"
You'll find bizarre anti-semitism factions in almost any organized group. There are plenty in the Seattle Teacher's Union, for example, and they gather like flies around Kshama Sawant. It seems to be receding on the right while growing on the left, IMHO.
And you'll find ex-cons, registered sex offenders, including pedophiles, rapists, domestic abusers, skinheads and racists by the truck full at any Antifa rally. A lot of Antifa are there just to break and burn shit while assaulting people and attacking "the system" or "the man" - probably because they were held accountable for some heinous crime they still won't admit they committed or was their fault.
Many Antifa are simply social retards living out (larping) their video game fantasies of conducting some fictitious war against some fictitious enemy on the streets, all in hopes of eventually getting laid. It's not that complicated.
My take is that the idea that right wing equals racist is over
The Proud Boys are not my cup of tea but they don't appear to be racist. They hate the left. There are Blacks, Samoans, whites and women
So why is Chris Wallace calling them and Trump racist?
Your backtrack to calling them low brow is acceptable to the panel
It's about taxes, opportunities, and private property. That transcends race, it brings people together like nothing ever has since Pearl fucking Harbor.
Proud boys don't help, don't really hurt that cause either.
I still can’t believe how badly Trump fucked up the condemning hate groups question.
“I condemn racism and hate groups of all kinds, unlike my opponent, who calls black people street predators, and is worried about white kids having to grow up in a racial jungle. My opponent, who supported race riots for months and encouraged domestic terrorists to attack the police and residents of our cities.”
That is low hanging fruit, and Trump fucked up royally with the “stand down and stand by” comment. He basically made himself the commanding officer of the Proud Boys.
We call those unforced errors, imo
The worst part about it was that the question was SO OBBIOUSLY canned and served up for him as a test. And while he was in the process of failing the test, the moderator kept nudging him and making it clear that this was a statement question and gave him a couple of chances to get it right and he just kept fucking it up. You could tell the gears were spinning and he made a calculated move. He just calculated badly. Very, very, very badly.
I have a sense for the line on which he is dancing. There are plenty of people, both in and outside of his base, who speak plainly and directly about race relations and have politically incorrect views on race according to the left; but those people are not racists. The Tug, for example, is full of those people. I think perhaps Trump and his advisors don't sufficiently appreciate the difference between those people and people like the Proud Boys. If I'm right about that, then that's on him and his people.
In any event, whatever the reason, he wasn't good on his feet on that point and he may have really screwed the pooch. I don't think this one just goes away because of our? short attention span. If I'm on the left, I hammer this point until it's done.
I know very little about the proud boys other than it was founded by former Vice media founder and its now run by a Enrique Tarrio, an AfroCuban guy.
Are they actually a white supremacist group or are they just labeled that by the media at large?
Obviously I'm not an insider and thus can only glean like the rest of us. Ostensibly it's a "be proud to be a man, particularly a man of the Western world," group and so whatever charter they have will likely contain those kinds of founding statements. There is a very strong anti-immigration element to their founding beliefs and a pretty clear current of "white genocide" rhetoric. These are the "I will not be replaced" people in Charlottesville. That will attract racists and most assuredly has. I have a lot of people in Portland, where they exist in large numbers, and the anecdotal information is full of overtly racist incidents, with members who use racist rhetoric, lots of swastika tattoos, etc. etc. So while I'm sure it's not founded as a racist group like, say, the KKK, and while I'm sure they deny they are a racist group, they are a particularly agitated and activated group of people given to violence and among them are plenty of overtly racist people. I'm not in a position to prove that, however. If I had to guess, I'd be at least very confident that there is a strong line of antisemitism amongst its members.
admittedly, a rather unsatisfying answer (not your fault)...
FWIW
When I searched "Proud Boys speech" this is the video that came up from Seattle;
When I searched "Proud boys unite the right" this is what Wikipedia said; "In June , McInnes disavowed the planned Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. However, Proud Boys were at the August 2017 alt-right event, which was organized by white supremacist Jason Kessler. Kessler had joined the Proud Boys some time before organizing the event. McInnes said he had kicked Kessler out after his views on race had become clear."
Maybe they are retards, Im sure there are some racists in the group but it sure doesnt look like a white supremacist group to me... It seems like they are largely just a weird group of mostly disenfranchised men that enjoy pissing off the weird group of disenfranchised radicals on the left.
Fuck me this looks like an OBK post. Kill me now.
I mentioned in response to Race's post that I do recall some noise about the PB wanting to rid their ranks of basically disenfranchised white supremacists looking for a new and active group. Not surprising that it would be a problem for them in that they might attract those people but not necessarily wanting to. The proclivity for fighting alone will attract a skin-head type of person.
I think you are right and it's not accurate to describe them as "white surpemacists" ... certainly not as an originating principle. But as you say, and as I continue to suspect, there are probably more than a handful of them who operate somewhere between extreme xenophobia and racism. But as I said, I've had no interaction with anybody claiming to represent the group, online or in person, and all I know really is the shit I hear out of Portland.
See my response to @HoustonHusky . I don't operate in that crowd. Too low brow for a big-time corporate lawyer who fills his days filling his briefs with filler information and then hitting the links.
Maybe they are only antisemitic. I don't really know. Or maybe they're pretty enlightened and welcome all members. I kind of doubt that. The group in Portland has a pretty bad rep and has attracted some skinhead peel offs from what I've read / heard. To be fair, I've also read/heard that the group tries to limit that particular element.
I'm guessing that if you ran with that bunch you'd probably encounter more than a few racist people, but then that can be said about a lot of groups.
I know one thing: Cubans can be pretty racist. It never occurred to me that black-Cubans could be racist against themselves. Damn.
Here's my serious guess: the people who started the group's organization were pleasantly surprised to learn that there are black Hispanics who are REALLY FUCKING CONSERVATIVE and were like, "we hit the jackpot! bring those guys in!"
You'll find bizarre anti-semitism factions in almost any organized group. There are plenty in the Seattle Teacher's Union, for example, and they gather like flies around Kshama Sawant. It seems to be receding on the right while growing on the left, IMHO.
And you'll find ex-cons, registered sex offenders, including pedophiles, rapists, domestic abusers, skinheads and racists by the truck full at any Antifa rally. A lot of Antifa are there just to break and burn shit while assaulting people and attacking "the system" or "the man" - probably because they were held accountable for some heinous crime they still won't admit they committed or was their fault.
Many Antifa are simply social retards living out (larping) their video game fantasies of conducting some fictitious war against some fictitious enemy on the streets, all in hopes of eventually getting laid. It's not that complicated.
A lot of truth to this.
I've never fully understood the origins of the wide-spread issue with the Jews. So many groups take issue with them and I don't get it.
See my response to @HoustonHusky . I don't operate in that crowd. Too low brow for a big-time corporate lawyer who fills his days filling his briefs with filler information and then hitting the links.
Maybe they are only antisemitic. I don't really know. Or maybe they're pretty enlightened and welcome all members. I kind of doubt that. The group in Portland has a pretty bad rep and has attracted some skinhead peel offs from what I've read / heard. To be fair, I've also read/heard that the group tries to limit that particular element.
I'm guessing that if you ran with that bunch you'd probably encounter more than a few racist people, but then that can be said about a lot of groups.
I know one thing: Cubans can be pretty racist. It never occurred to me that black-Cubans could be racist against themselves. Damn.
Here's my serious guess: the people who started the group's organization were pleasantly surprised to learn that there are black Hispanics who are REALLY FUCKING CONSERVATIVE and were like, "we hit the jackpot! bring those guys in!"
You'll find bizarre anti-semitism factions in almost any organized group. There are plenty in the Seattle Teacher's Union, for example, and they gather like flies around Kshama Sawant. It seems to be receding on the right while growing on the left, IMHO.
And you'll find ex-cons, registered sex offenders, including pedophiles, rapists, domestic abusers, skinheads and racists by the truck full at any Antifa rally. A lot of Antifa are there just to break and burn shit while assaulting people and attacking "the system" or "the man" - probably because they were held accountable for some heinous crime they still won't admit they committed or was their fault.
Many Antifa are simply social retards living out (larping) their video game fantasies of conducting some fictitious war against some fictitious enemy on the streets, all in hopes of eventually getting laid. It's not that complicated.
A lot of truth to this.
I've never fully understood the origins of the wide-spread issue with the Jews. So many groups take issue with them and I don't get it.
Short Answer: Simpletonism. It's a lot easier to say "Jews are bad" or "Orange Man Bad" than to delve into the policies and actions that underlie the controversy that surrounds them.
80% - 90% of Biden voters simply hate Trump while being stunningly unaware of what a duplicitous prick Biden has been for decades, accomplishing astonishingly little in his 47 years on Capitol Hill while riding the Catholic vote to repeated election victories.
The same group probably can't list 5 things Trump has done - good or bad - that would justify a vote in favor or against, but they'll almost universally tell you what an asshole, jerk, or racist Trump is.
Meanwhile, Biden is just "the other guy" representing the "anyone but Trump" contingent.
The proud boys arent racist and no one really gives a shit if they were. The issues that matter are jobs, the economy, etc. Most people remember things humming along before the chinese virus and dem state excessive lockdowns.
Most people dont like to see riots in big cities with looting and burning buildings and dead cops.
These are the issues that will carry Trump to a big win. Biden has nothing of substance.
Not your best work. It's like you want to miss the point.
It's actually you who misses the point. No one gives a fuck about the proud boys. No one.
Was it a dumb answer by Trump? Yes. Will anyone that was considering voting for him care? No. They will say "what the fuck is a proud boy", google and see some CNN and mother jones bs, and shrug
No one gives a shit lol. The election is about higher level concepts like who is fucking over the middle class. And the answer is the dems
My take is that the idea that right wing equals racist is over
The Proud Boys are not my cup of tea but they don't appear to be racist. They hate the left. There are Blacks, Samoans, whites and women
So why is Chris Wallace calling them and Trump racist?
Your backtrack to calling them low brow is acceptable to the panel
Did Wallace call out the Proud Boys, or was it Trump? I thought it was Trump. Wallace wouldn't name a group when Trump asked. Honestly, it was a softball question and Trump made it difficult and hit a foul ball.
See my response to @HoustonHusky . I don't operate in that crowd. Too low brow for a big-time corporate lawyer who fills his days filling his briefs with filler information and then hitting the links.
Maybe they are only antisemitic. I don't really know. Or maybe they're pretty enlightened and welcome all members. I kind of doubt that. The group in Portland has a pretty bad rep and has attracted some skinhead peel offs from what I've read / heard. To be fair, I've also read/heard that the group tries to limit that particular element.
I'm guessing that if you ran with that bunch you'd probably encounter more than a few racist people, but then that can be said about a lot of groups.
I know one thing: Cubans can be pretty racist. It never occurred to me that black-Cubans could be racist against themselves. Damn.
Here's my serious guess: the people who started the group's organization were pleasantly surprised to learn that there are black Hispanics who are REALLY FUCKING CONSERVATIVE and were like, "we hit the jackpot! bring those guys in!"
You'll find bizarre anti-semitism factions in almost any organized group. There are plenty in the Seattle Teacher's Union, for example, and they gather like flies around Kshama Sawant. It seems to be receding on the right while growing on the left, IMHO.
And you'll find ex-cons, registered sex offenders, including pedophiles, rapists, domestic abusers, skinheads and racists by the truck full at any Antifa rally. A lot of Antifa are there just to break and burn shit while assaulting people and attacking "the system" or "the man" - probably because they were held accountable for some heinous crime they still won't admit they committed or was their fault.
Many Antifa are simply social retards living out (larping) their video game fantasies of conducting some fictitious war against some fictitious enemy on the streets, all in hopes of eventually getting laid. It's not that complicated.
A lot of truth to this.
I've never fully understood the origins of the wide-spread issue with the Jews. So many groups take issue with them and I don't get it.
Short Answer: Simpletonism. It's a lot easier to say "Jews are bad" or "Orange Man Bad" than to delve into the policies and actions that underlie the controversy that surrounds them.
80% - 90% of Biden voters simply hate Trump while being stunningly unaware of what a duplicitous prick Biden has been for decades, accomplishing astonishingly little in his 47 years on Capitol Hill while riding the Catholic vote to repeated election victories.
The same group probably can't list 5 things Trump has done - good or bad - that would justify a vote in favor or against, but they'll almost universally tell you what an asshole, jerk, or racist Trump is.
Meanwhile, Biden is just "the other guy" representing the "anyone but Trump" contingent.
Agreed. But anti-Trumpism is a blip on the historical radar. The Jews have incurred the ire of people all over the globe seemingly since the beginning of time. It's crazy how maligned they have been and by as many different groups. It's astonishing.
My take is that the idea that right wing equals racist is over
The Proud Boys are not my cup of tea but they don't appear to be racist. They hate the left. There are Blacks, Samoans, whites and women
So why is Chris Wallace calling them and Trump racist?
Your backtrack to calling them low brow is acceptable to the panel
Did Wallace call out the Proud Boys, or was it Trump? I thought it was Trump. Wallace wouldn't name a group when Trump asked. Honestly, it was a softball question and Trump made it difficult and hit a foul ball.
Wallace didn't, but Biden did kind of out of the side of his mouth.
The proud boys arent racist and no one really gives a shit if they were. The issues that matter are jobs, the economy, etc. Most people remember things humming along before the chinese virus and dem state excessive lockdowns.
Most people dont like to see riots in big cities with looting and burning buildings and dead cops.
These are the issues that will carry Trump to a big win. Biden has nothing of substance.
Not your best work. It's like you want to miss the point.
It's actually you who misses the point. No one gives a fuck about the proud boys. No one.
Was it a dumb answer by Trump? Yes. Will anyone that was considering voting for him care? No. They will say "what the fuck is a proud boy", google and see some CNN and mother jones bs, and shrug
No one gives a shit lol. The election is about higher level concepts like who is fucking over the middle class. And the answer is the dems
I thought the point was the debates and Trump's gaffe. As others said, he fumbled it. Of course the Proud Boys are not a national focus (at least they weren't before last night) - it was the context of the question. Whether it hurts his election remains to be seen. How big of a deal it's blow into, etc. And plenty of people would care if the PB were prima facie a racist hate group. If it Biden had slipped "KKK" into the conversation instead of Proud Boys and Trump told them to stand back and stand ready, it would for sure be a big deal even though the economy and other things are more important.
The proud boys arent racist and no one really gives a shit if they were. The issues that matter are jobs, the economy, etc. Most people remember things humming along before the chinese virus and dem state excessive lockdowns.
Most people dont like to see riots in big cities with looting and burning buildings and dead cops.
These are the issues that will carry Trump to a big win. Biden has nothing of substance.
See my response to @HoustonHusky . I don't operate in that crowd. Too low brow for a big-time corporate lawyer who fills his days filling his briefs with filler information and then hitting the links.
Maybe they are only antisemitic. I don't really know. Or maybe they're pretty enlightened and welcome all members. I kind of doubt that. The group in Portland has a pretty bad rep and has attracted some skinhead peel offs from what I've read / heard. To be fair, I've also read/heard that the group tries to limit that particular element.
I'm guessing that if you ran with that bunch you'd probably encounter more than a few racist people, but then that can be said about a lot of groups.
I know one thing: Cubans can be pretty racist. It never occurred to me that black-Cubans could be racist against themselves. Damn.
Here's my serious guess: the people who started the group's organization were pleasantly surprised to learn that there are black Hispanics who are REALLY FUCKING CONSERVATIVE and were like, "we hit the jackpot! bring those guys in!"
You'll find bizarre anti-semitism factions in almost any organized group. There are plenty in the Seattle Teacher's Union, for example, and they gather like flies around Kshama Sawant. It seems to be receding on the right while growing on the left, IMHO.
And you'll find ex-cons, registered sex offenders, including pedophiles, rapists, domestic abusers, skinheads and racists by the truck full at any Antifa rally. A lot of Antifa are there just to break and burn shit while assaulting people and attacking "the system" or "the man" - probably because they were held accountable for some heinous crime they still won't admit they committed or was their fault.
Many Antifa are simply social retards living out (larping) their video game fantasies of conducting some fictitious war against some fictitious enemy on the streets, all in hopes of eventually getting laid. It's not that complicated.
A lot of truth to this.
I've never fully understood the origins of the wide-spread issue with the Jews. So many groups take issue with them and I don't get it.
Short Answer: Simpletonism. It's a lot easier to say "Jews are bad" or "Orange Man Bad" than to delve into the policies and actions that underlie the controversy that surrounds them.
80% - 90% of Biden voters simply hate Trump while being stunningly unaware of what a duplicitous prick Biden has been for decades, accomplishing astonishingly little in his 47 years on Capitol Hill while riding the Catholic vote to repeated election victories.
The same group probably can't list 5 things Trump has done - good or bad - that would justify a vote in favor or against, but they'll almost universally tell you what an asshole, jerk, or racist Trump is.
Meanwhile, Biden is just "the other guy" representing the "anyone but Trump" contingent.
Agreed. But anti-Trumpism is a blip on the historical radar. The Jews have incurred the ire of people all over the globe seemingly since the beginning of time. It's crazy how maligned they have been and by as many different groups. It's astonishing.
"I want to open it up, he wants to close it down."
Protests and coronabro "cases" and climate change wrt shit environmental management is just a giant fucking distraction at this point.
Yeah but dude. Brazil man. We got to give them money.
Or do you hate trees?
I really hate trees. Worst moments in my husky fandom caused by trees. Burn em all down. Ban em from the conference. 6k undergrad student body? Fuck outta MY conference.
Comments
The Proud Boys are not my cup of tea but they don't appear to be racist. They hate the left. There are Blacks, Samoans, whites and women
So why is Chris Wallace calling them and Trump racist?
Your backtrack to calling them low brow is acceptable to the panel
And you'll find ex-cons, registered sex offenders, including pedophiles, rapists, domestic abusers, skinheads and racists by the truck full at any Antifa rally. A lot of Antifa are there just to break and burn shit while assaulting people and attacking "the system" or "the man" - probably because they were held accountable for some heinous crime they still won't admit they committed or was their fault.
Many Antifa are simply social retards living out (larping) their video game fantasies of conducting some fictitious war against some fictitious enemy on the streets, all in hopes of eventually getting laid. It's not that complicated.
Proud boys don't help, don't really hurt that cause either.
I think you are right and it's not accurate to describe them as "white surpemacists" ... certainly not as an originating principle. But as you say, and as I continue to suspect, there are probably more than a handful of them who operate somewhere between extreme xenophobia and racism. But as I said, I've had no interaction with anybody claiming to represent the group, online or in person, and all I know really is the shit I hear out of Portland.
Certainly not a nice group of people.
I've never fully understood the origins of the wide-spread issue with the Jews. So many groups take issue with them and I don't get it.
80% - 90% of Biden voters simply hate Trump while being stunningly unaware of what a duplicitous prick Biden has been for decades, accomplishing astonishingly little in his 47 years on Capitol Hill while riding the Catholic vote to repeated election victories.
The same group probably can't list 5 things Trump has done - good or bad - that would justify a vote in favor or against, but they'll almost universally tell you what an asshole, jerk, or racist Trump is.
Meanwhile, Biden is just "the other guy" representing the "anyone but Trump" contingent.
It's actually you who misses the point. No one gives a fuck about the proud boys. No one.
Was it a dumb answer by Trump? Yes. Will anyone that was considering voting for him care? No. They will say "what the fuck is a proud boy", google and see some CNN and mother jones bs, and shrug
No one gives a shit lol. The election is about higher level concepts like who is fucking over the middle class. And the answer is the dems
Everything else is soup and salad.
As usual it crumbled rather quickly
Trump is verbally clumsy. Film at 11
Protests and coronabro "cases" and climate change wrt shit environmental management is just a giant fucking distraction at this point.
Or do you hate trees?