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How does Trump recover from this mess...

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  • creepycoug
    creepycoug Member Posts: 24,046

    Didn't think that Biden would do any debates. Doubling down that there won't be anymore debates. Biden now has some leverage to say what's the point. The constant interrupting and the unforced error on denouncing white supremacists and then demand that Biden denounce Antifa and the riots gives Biden all the cover he needs.

    It may have been Biden's only score last night when he said one, it's an idea not a group, and two, I'm not in office, you are. It's pretty much the only time Biden was good and quick on his feet. The "come on man" shit was cringeworthy as it always is, and for all of Trump's blustering I thought it was entirely inappropriate for Biden call the CIC a "clown" in front of the American public. It was, to me anyway, a new low. Trump says a lot of shit, and thus it's easy to say he asks for it. But in my mind, the guy is the POTUS until he isn't, and a candidate for the same office shouldn't say shit like that. It makes us look third world.
  • creepycoug
    creepycoug Member Posts: 24,046

    doogie said:

    Trump was I’ll prepared and low energy. That said, every time he began to strike, Wallace would shout out to block his answer and Biden would pile on with something incoherent.

    If debates continue, this strategy will get worse becoming more obnoxious. It’s a good strategy. It worked. Trump looked like he hadn’t even considered Jimmy Lakes defense as he kept running short crosses over and over

    Trump will do better knowing he's the road team. The next moderator can't be Joe's buttboy again
    Fair. But will the new tagline, "stand down but stand by" go away?
  • Houhusky
    Houhusky Member Posts: 5,537
    edited September 2020

    thechatch said:

    I still can’t believe how badly Trump fucked up the condemning hate groups question.

    “I condemn racism and hate groups of all kinds, unlike my opponent, who calls black people street predators, and is worried about white kids having to grow up in a racial jungle. My opponent, who supported race riots for months and encouraged domestic terrorists to attack the police and residents of our cities.”

    That is low hanging fruit, and Trump fucked up royally with the “stand down and stand by” comment. He basically made himself the commanding officer of the Proud Boys.

    We call those unforced errors, imo

    The worst part about it was that the question was SO OBBIOUSLY canned and served up for him as a test. And while he was in the process of failing the test, the moderator kept nudging him and making it clear that this was a statement question and gave him a couple of chances to get it right and he just kept fucking it up. You could tell the gears were spinning and he made a calculated move. He just calculated badly. Very, very, very badly.

    I have a sense for the line on which he is dancing. There are plenty of people, both in and outside of his base, who speak plainly and directly about race relations and have politically incorrect views on race according to the left; but those people are not racists. The Tug, for example, is full of those people. I think perhaps Trump and his advisors don't sufficiently appreciate the difference between those people and people like the Proud Boys. If I'm right about that, then that's on him and his people.

    In any event, whatever the reason, he wasn't good on his feet on that point and he may have really screwed the pooch. I don't think this one just goes away because of our? short attention span. If I'm on the left, I hammer this point until it's done.
    I know very little about the proud boys other than it was founded by former Vice media founder and its now run by a Enrique Tarrio, an AfroCuban guy.

    Here the mini Dateline documentary done by Dateline from a couple years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7f4b1o6BKM&app=desktop

    Are they actually a white supremacist group or are they just labeled that by the media at large?
  • Bob_C
    Bob_C Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 12,678 Founders Club

    thechatch said:

    I still can’t believe how badly Trump fucked up the condemning hate groups question.

    “I condemn racism and hate groups of all kinds, unlike my opponent, who calls black people street predators, and is worried about white kids having to grow up in a racial jungle. My opponent, who supported race riots for months and encouraged domestic terrorists to attack the police and residents of our cities.”

    That is low hanging fruit, and Trump fucked up royally with the “stand down and stand by” comment. He basically made himself the commanding officer of the Proud Boys.

    We call those unforced errors, imo

    The worst part about it was that the question was SO OBBIOUSLY canned and served up for him as a test. And while he was in the process of failing the test, the moderator kept nudging him and making it clear that this was a statement question and gave him a couple of chances to get it right and he just kept fucking it up. You could tell the gears were spinning and he made a calculated move. He just calculated badly. Very, very, very badly.

    I have a sense for the line on which he is dancing. There are plenty of people, both in and outside of his base, who speak plainly and directly about race relations and have politically incorrect views on race according to the left; but those people are not racists. The Tug, for example, is full of those people. I think perhaps Trump and his advisors don't sufficiently appreciate the difference between those people and people like the Proud Boys. If I'm right about that, then that's on him and his people.

    In any event, whatever the reason, he wasn't good on his feet on that point and he may have really screwed the pooch. I don't think this one just goes away because of our? short attention span. If I'm on the left, I hammer this point until it's done.
    A thorough and detailed CRT trashing would be good for Trump. But he needs to shine a light on the specifics of the CRT platform/solution and tie that back into BLM and Antifa instead of the vagueries that he pointed out last night. Not enough people know how crazy it all is. Highlight the grand wizard Kendi and let Biden defend Kendi directly instead of just very generic equality.

  • RaceBannon
    RaceBannon Member, Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 113,883 Founders Club

    doogie said:

    Trump was I’ll prepared and low energy. That said, every time he began to strike, Wallace would shout out to block his answer and Biden would pile on with something incoherent.

    If debates continue, this strategy will get worse becoming more obnoxious. It’s a good strategy. It worked. Trump looked like he hadn’t even considered Jimmy Lakes defense as he kept running short crosses over and over

    Trump will do better knowing he's the road team. The next moderator can't be Joe's buttboy again
    Fair. But will the new tagline, "stand down but stand by" go away?
    Actually thought that was about Trump supporters accepting the results or not going out and declaring victory early and causing a ruckus

    Stand by and be ready to fight antifa but stand down until needed

    But no the new improved version of Trump is a racist isn't going away. *yawn*

    Like I said some of us have felt the real racism and aren't impressed by this malarakey. Many of whom Biden in targeting. President Harris was right - Biden is an actual racist with 47 years of damage under his belt

    Are voters smart enough? I am. Fuck the rest of you
  • RaceBannon
    RaceBannon Member, Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 113,883 Founders Club
    https://msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-claims-he-doesnt-know-who-the-proud-boys-are-calls-on-them-to-stand-down/vi-BB19Aidn?ocid=msedgntp

    1 minute and 57 seconds of your time

    Of course it is the day after spin but believable and say Joe - when do you condemn antifa?

    B+
  • creepycoug
    creepycoug Member Posts: 24,046
    edited September 2020
    Houhusky said:

    thechatch said:

    I still can’t believe how badly Trump fucked up the condemning hate groups question.

    “I condemn racism and hate groups of all kinds, unlike my opponent, who calls black people street predators, and is worried about white kids having to grow up in a racial jungle. My opponent, who supported race riots for months and encouraged domestic terrorists to attack the police and residents of our cities.”

    That is low hanging fruit, and Trump fucked up royally with the “stand down and stand by” comment. He basically made himself the commanding officer of the Proud Boys.

    We call those unforced errors, imo

    The worst part about it was that the question was SO OBBIOUSLY canned and served up for him as a test. And while he was in the process of failing the test, the moderator kept nudging him and making it clear that this was a statement question and gave him a couple of chances to get it right and he just kept fucking it up. You could tell the gears were spinning and he made a calculated move. He just calculated badly. Very, very, very badly.

    I have a sense for the line on which he is dancing. There are plenty of people, both in and outside of his base, who speak plainly and directly about race relations and have politically incorrect views on race according to the left; but those people are not racists. The Tug, for example, is full of those people. I think perhaps Trump and his advisors don't sufficiently appreciate the difference between those people and people like the Proud Boys. If I'm right about that, then that's on him and his people.

    In any event, whatever the reason, he wasn't good on his feet on that point and he may have really screwed the pooch. I don't think this one just goes away because of our? short attention span. If I'm on the left, I hammer this point until it's done.
    I know very little about the proud boys other than it was founded by former Vice media founder and its now run by a Enrique Tarrio, an AfroCuban guy.

    Here the mini Dateline documentary done by Dateline from a couple years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7f4b1o6BKM&app=desktop

    Are they actually a white supremacist group or are they just labeled that by the media at large?
    Obviously I'm not an insider and thus can only glean like the rest of us. Ostensibly it's a "be proud to be a man, particularly a man of the Western world," group and so whatever charter they have will likely contain those kinds of founding statements. There is a very strong anti-immigration element to their founding beliefs and a pretty clear current of "white genocide" rhetoric. These are the "I will not be replaced" people in Charlottesville. That will attract racists and most assuredly has. I have a lot of people in Portland, where they exist in large numbers, and the anecdotal information is full of overtly racist incidents, with members who use racist rhetoric, lots of swastika tattoos, etc. etc. So while I'm sure it's not founded as a racist group like, say, the KKK, and while I'm sure they deny they are a racist group, they are a particularly agitated and activated group of people given to violence and among them are plenty of overtly racist people. I'm not in a position to prove that, however. If I had to guess, I'd be at least very confident that there is a strong line of antisemitism amongst its members.
  • creepycoug
    creepycoug Member Posts: 24,046

    doogie said:

    Trump was I’ll prepared and low energy. That said, every time he began to strike, Wallace would shout out to block his answer and Biden would pile on with something incoherent.

    If debates continue, this strategy will get worse becoming more obnoxious. It’s a good strategy. It worked. Trump looked like he hadn’t even considered Jimmy Lakes defense as he kept running short crosses over and over

    Trump will do better knowing he's the road team. The next moderator can't be Joe's buttboy again
    Fair. But will the new tagline, "stand down but stand by" go away?
    Actually thought that was about Trump supporters accepting the results or not going out and declaring victory early and causing a ruckus

    Stand by and be ready to fight antifa but stand down until needed

    But no the new improved version of Trump is a racist isn't going away. *yawn*

    Like I said some of us have felt the real racism and aren't impressed by this malarakey. Many of whom Biden in targeting. President Harris was right - Biden is an actual racist with 47 years of damage under his belt

    Are voters smart enough? I am. Fuck the rest of you
    I didn't quite get that. Is it a problem or not?
  • creepycoug
    creepycoug Member Posts: 24,046
    Bob_C said:

    thechatch said:

    I still can’t believe how badly Trump fucked up the condemning hate groups question.

    “I condemn racism and hate groups of all kinds, unlike my opponent, who calls black people street predators, and is worried about white kids having to grow up in a racial jungle. My opponent, who supported race riots for months and encouraged domestic terrorists to attack the police and residents of our cities.”

    That is low hanging fruit, and Trump fucked up royally with the “stand down and stand by” comment. He basically made himself the commanding officer of the Proud Boys.

    We call those unforced errors, imo

    The worst part about it was that the question was SO OBBIOUSLY canned and served up for him as a test. And while he was in the process of failing the test, the moderator kept nudging him and making it clear that this was a statement question and gave him a couple of chances to get it right and he just kept fucking it up. You could tell the gears were spinning and he made a calculated move. He just calculated badly. Very, very, very badly.

    I have a sense for the line on which he is dancing. There are plenty of people, both in and outside of his base, who speak plainly and directly about race relations and have politically incorrect views on race according to the left; but those people are not racists. The Tug, for example, is full of those people. I think perhaps Trump and his advisors don't sufficiently appreciate the difference between those people and people like the Proud Boys. If I'm right about that, then that's on him and his people.

    In any event, whatever the reason, he wasn't good on his feet on that point and he may have really screwed the pooch. I don't think this one just goes away because of our? short attention span. If I'm on the left, I hammer this point until it's done.
    A thorough and detailed CRT trashing would be good for Trump. But he needs to shine a light on the specifics of the CRT platform/solution and tie that back into BLM and Antifa instead of the vagueries that he pointed out last night. Not enough people know how crazy it all is. Highlight the grand wizard Kendi and let Biden defend Kendi directly instead of just very generic equality.

    Will be very hard to do and challenges the American public's attention span and capacity for intellectual discourse.
  • RaceBannon
    RaceBannon Member, Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 113,883 Founders Club

    doogie said:

    Trump was I’ll prepared and low energy. That said, every time he began to strike, Wallace would shout out to block his answer and Biden would pile on with something incoherent.

    If debates continue, this strategy will get worse becoming more obnoxious. It’s a good strategy. It worked. Trump looked like he hadn’t even considered Jimmy Lakes defense as he kept running short crosses over and over

    Trump will do better knowing he's the road team. The next moderator can't be Joe's buttboy again
    Fair. But will the new tagline, "stand down but stand by" go away?
    Actually thought that was about Trump supporters accepting the results or not going out and declaring victory early and causing a ruckus

    Stand by and be ready to fight antifa but stand down until needed

    But no the new improved version of Trump is a racist isn't going away. *yawn*

    Like I said some of us have felt the real racism and aren't impressed by this malarakey. Many of whom Biden in targeting. President Harris was right - Biden is an actual racist with 47 years of damage under his belt

    Are voters smart enough? I am. Fuck the rest of you
    I was right if you look at the video
  • dflea
    dflea Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 7,287 Swaye's Wigwam

    dflea said:

    dnc said:

    Trump fumbled this one badly. I don't think debates matter much but I expected Trump to destroy Biden and that didn't happen at all. Trump was at his worst last night.

    Recently watched a documentary on Richard Pryor. Pryor made a comeback after his burning man impression and did a show in LA. He flopped. Nothing clicked. Nobody laughed. It was horrible. He actually apologized to the crowd and said "come back tomorrow night".

    Next night he killed it. Absolutely on point. Hilarious as in his cracker/dead honky phase.

    It's not over for Trump.

    Richard Pryor didn't suck ass before his crappy set like Trump does.

    It's fucking over.
    Pretty impressed with Biden were you?
    Nope. I'm a Corn Shit 2020 guy.
  • HHusky
    HHusky Member Posts: 23,898
    Bull fucking shit!

    "Stand down . . but, but, but the problem is the left!" Equivocating motherfucker.

    I know Race, real racism is knowing what the "N-word" stands for.

  • HHusky
    HHusky Member Posts: 23,898

    HHusky said:

    Bull fucking shit!

    "Stand down . . but, but, but the problem is the left!" Equivocating motherfucker.

    I know Race, real racism is knowing what the "N-word" stands for.

    HHusky said:

    Bull fucking shit!

    "Stand down . . but, but, but the problem is the left!" Equivocating motherfucker.

    I know Race, real racism is knowing what the "N-word" stands for.

    Shut up cracker

    Joe Biden said my kids aren't good enough to go to school with his kids in the jungle

    No one in our house is confused as to the racist is

    Take your white bread racist ass and go fuck yourself
    You seem to have entirely forgotten that your kids aren't good enough to rent in one of Daddy's shitty buildings.

    Tuff liberal lawyer must be ashamed.
  • HHusky
    HHusky Member Posts: 23,898

    HHusky said:

    HHusky said:

    Bull fucking shit!

    "Stand down . . but, but, but the problem is the left!" Equivocating motherfucker.

    I know Race, real racism is knowing what the "N-word" stands for.

    HHusky said:

    Bull fucking shit!

    "Stand down . . but, but, but the problem is the left!" Equivocating motherfucker.

    I know Race, real racism is knowing what the "N-word" stands for.

    Shut up cracker

    Joe Biden said my kids aren't good enough to go to school with his kids in the jungle

    No one in our house is confused as to the racist is

    Take your white bread racist ass and go fuck yourself
    You seem to have entirely forgotten that your kids aren't good enough to rent in one of Daddy's shitty buildings.

    Tuff liberal lawyer must be ashamed.

    Now I did have to threaten a condo in Democrat Seattle when they tried to renege on a rental agreement when they saw the family

    Maybe you were the issue.
  • HHusky
    HHusky Member Posts: 23,898

    HHusky said:

    HHusky said:

    HHusky said:

    Bull fucking shit!

    "Stand down . . but, but, but the problem is the left!" Equivocating motherfucker.

    I know Race, real racism is knowing what the "N-word" stands for.

    HHusky said:

    Bull fucking shit!

    "Stand down . . but, but, but the problem is the left!" Equivocating motherfucker.

    I know Race, real racism is knowing what the "N-word" stands for.

    Shut up cracker

    Joe Biden said my kids aren't good enough to go to school with his kids in the jungle

    No one in our house is confused as to the racist is

    Take your white bread racist ass and go fuck yourself
    You seem to have entirely forgotten that your kids aren't good enough to rent in one of Daddy's shitty buildings.

    Tuff liberal lawyer must be ashamed.

    Now I did have to threaten a condo in Democrat Seattle when they tried to renege on a rental agreement when they saw the family

    Maybe you were the issue.
    Since they rented it to me when I was alone I don't think so

    Your continuing defense of racism is noted
    Riiiggght. Daddy was framed by Nixon's Justice Department, I'm sure.
  • PostGameOrangeSlices
    PostGameOrangeSlices Member Posts: 27,198
    The proud boys arent racist and no one really gives a shit if they were. The issues that matter are jobs, the economy, etc. Most people remember things humming along before the chinese virus and dem state excessive lockdowns.

    Most people dont like to see riots in big cities with looting and burning buildings and dead cops.

    These are the issues that will carry Trump to a big win. Biden has nothing of substance.
  • PurpleThrobber
    PurpleThrobber Member Posts: 48,069

    doogie said:

    Trump was I’ll prepared and low energy. That said, every time he began to strike, Wallace would shout out to block his answer and Biden would pile on with something incoherent.

    If debates continue, this strategy will get worse becoming more obnoxious. It’s a good strategy. It worked. Trump looked like he hadn’t even considered Jimmy Lakes defense as he kept running short crosses over and over

    Trump will do better knowing he's the road team. The next moderator can't be Joe's buttboy again
    Fair. But will the new tagline, "stand down but stand by" go away?
    Actually thought that was about Trump supporters accepting the results or not going out and declaring victory early and causing a ruckus

    Stand by and be ready to fight antifa but stand down until needed

    But no the new improved version of Trump is a racist isn't going away. *yawn*

    Like I said some of us have felt the real racism and aren't impressed by this malarakey. Many of whom Biden in targeting. President Harris was right - Biden is an actual racist with 47 years of damage under his belt

    Are voters smart enough? I am. Fuck the rest of you
    I didn't quite get that. Is it a problem or not?
    Not really

    As I posted Trump spun it pretty good back on Joe

    Lot of Americans aren't happy with antifa looting and burning for months on end

    Trump needs to slow down and get his reads down. It was sloppy
    Truth in bold. Guar-an-fucking-tee more people know the name "Antifa" than "Proud Boys".

    People are sick of the Antifa bullshit. Trump needs to pin Biden to the wall and not give up until he says "Uncle" on Antifa.

    If Joe won't do it, so swings the electorate. The TV ads will be relentless.

  • RaceBannon
    RaceBannon Member, Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 113,883 Founders Club
    HHusky said:

    HHusky said:

    HHusky said:

    HHusky said:

    Bull fucking shit!

    "Stand down . . but, but, but the problem is the left!" Equivocating motherfucker.

    I know Race, real racism is knowing what the "N-word" stands for.

    HHusky said:

    Bull fucking shit!

    "Stand down . . but, but, but the problem is the left!" Equivocating motherfucker.

    I know Race, real racism is knowing what the "N-word" stands for.

    Shut up cracker

    Joe Biden said my kids aren't good enough to go to school with his kids in the jungle

    No one in our house is confused as to the racist is

    Take your white bread racist ass and go fuck yourself
    You seem to have entirely forgotten that your kids aren't good enough to rent in one of Daddy's shitty buildings.

    Tuff liberal lawyer must be ashamed.

    Now I did have to threaten a condo in Democrat Seattle when they tried to renege on a rental agreement when they saw the family

    Maybe you were the issue.
    Since they rented it to me when I was alone I don't think so

    Your continuing defense of racism is noted
    Riiiggght. Daddy was framed by Nixon's Justice Department, I'm sure.
    You mean grandpa dumbass

    Not renting to welfare recipients equals not renting to Blacks. If you're racist

    Meanwhile Joe Biden didn't want his kids going to school with our kids

    Cracker
  • Sledog
    Sledog Member Posts: 37,753 Standard Supporter
    PANTYFA doesn't exist. Hiden Biden said so.
  • RaceBannon
    RaceBannon Member, Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 113,883 Founders Club



    The Proud Boys appear to be more diverse than the school that Biden wanted to send his kids to

    Gee did the Left lie again?

    @creepycoug what say you?
  • creepycoug
    creepycoug Member Posts: 24,046
    edited September 2020

    The proud boys arent racist and no one really gives a shit if they were. The issues that matter are jobs, the economy, etc. Most people remember things humming along before the chinese virus and dem state excessive lockdowns.

    Most people dont like to see riots in big cities with looting and burning buildings and dead cops.

    These are the issues that will carry Trump to a big win. Biden has nothing of substance.

    Not your best work. It's like you want to miss the point.
  • TurdBomber
    TurdBomber Member Posts: 20,035 Standard Supporter

    doogie said:

    Trump was I’ll prepared and low energy. That said, every time he began to strike, Wallace would shout out to block his answer and Biden would pile on with something incoherent.

    If debates continue, this strategy will get worse becoming more obnoxious. It’s a good strategy. It worked. Trump looked like he hadn’t even considered Jimmy Lakes defense as he kept running short crosses over and over

    Agree he wasn't "on", but if you cut through the noise, which wasn't easy to do, he obliterated Biden on substance. Biden has NOTHING. And speaking of "on", that slobbering geriatric (sorry @RaceBannon ) has no "on" days left in his lifetim. What you saw last night is Biden at his best. He'll never be better.

    Trump did fumble the race discussions last night. The Proud Boys gaffe is almost historically bad, and the answer on sensitivity training was not super great either.

    I am at once concerned about the damage the Proud Boys comment will do to his electability and legitimately and pleasantly surprised to see the Tug come out and acknowledge it was a bad move. The POTUS simply cannot lend any level of legitimacy to a group like that, and he did. And "but buts" are useless.

    I fear my taxes may go up now, and that I will have to acknowledge that the chatch called this right a few weeks ago. Still, my $$ is on Trump, in more ways than one.
    Worse than calling Nazis "fine people" - which more than half the brainwashed country still believes he did?

    Trump gets a much larger margin of error because he's gotten a lot of shit done that Slow Joe wouldn't touch. I think he stunk up the room last night, but I don't think it's going to hurt him that much in the long run. The proud boys have a tiny profile compared to Antifa, and most on the right will automatically embrace them for standing in opposition to Antifa despite some of their offensive rhetoric.
  • creepycoug
    creepycoug Member Posts: 24,046
    edited September 2020




    The Proud Boys appear to be more diverse than the school that Biden wanted to send his kids to

    Gee did the Left lie again?

    @creepycoug what say you?
    See my response to @HoustonHusky . I don't operate in that crowd. Too low brow for a big-time corporate lawyer who fills his days filling his briefs with filler information and then hitting the links.

    Maybe they are only antisemitic. I don't really know. Or maybe they're pretty enlightened and welcome all members. I kind of doubt that. The group in Portland has a pretty bad rep and has attracted some skinhead peel offs from what I've read / heard. To be fair, I've also read/heard that the group tries to limit that particular element.

    I'm guessing that if you ran with that bunch you'd probably encounter more than a few racist people, but then that can be said about a lot of groups.

    I know one thing: Cubans can be pretty racist. It never occurred to me that black-Cubans could be racist against themselves. Damn.

    Here's my serious guess: the people who started the group's organization were pleasantly surprised to learn that there are black Hispanics who are REALLY FUCKING CONSERVATIVE and were like, "we hit the jackpot! bring those guys in!"