Systemic racism

UW_Doog_Bot

End the ass-backwards war on drugs. That alone would cover a huge percentage of our fucked up incarceration numbers.

Sledog

creepycoug said:

Sledog said:

creepycoug said:

RaceBannon said:

I believe Savy. But the same genetics that gave him Black skin and the problems he described also gave him rare size and athletic talent that combined with his hard work gives him unlimited opportunity going forward.

Would he trade with a 5 foot 10 130 high school senior who is white?

I agree we try too many one size fits all fixes. Zero tolerance is lazy and stupid. Make calls based on the individual.

America actually discusses race quite a bit. Since I was a youngin. Sometimes its honest sometimes it is not. It is still tough to be a young black male and its better than ever. Everyone is a victim of something or they choose to be a victor. That crosses all races.

I agree with this. I also believe the bolded part. I don't know why black men commit such a disproportionate share of violent crime, and I suspect nobody in this thread does either.

So we've eliminated the role of racism ... because we're in the Tug. Ok, stipulated (for you dullards, that means don't keep arguing the point; you won).

The question that remains is, why? Bob says too many illegitimate births and not enough Dads. Ok, let's stipulate that, too (because it's basically true). If that's a big cause (debatable but plausible), why? Why is the black experience so often that of a broken home and poverty, etc. etc.?

Yeah, Smalls has opportunity because he won the genetic lottery. But most people don't win lotteries ... of any kind. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a lottery.

Westlinn says he'll follow the black kid in the store because statistics. Ok, understood. Does that have an effect on that black kid? That collective experience? Seems like it plays out in contact with the police here and there.

I don't like the race game anymore than the next guy. What's the real driver? Maybe the biggest question: does the Tug think that the black community shouldn't be pissed off? Or, rather, should all of us be pissed off about police brutality? FWIW, the latter is where I lean. We need the cops. But we need them to do a better job sifting through their ranks to sort out the murder boners (props to whomever came up with that one).

America had a fairly large middle class black population years ago, I suggest you look at the cause of it's destruction. You'll find many of the answers.

Or you can just spit it out. I'm lazy.

Destruction of the black family, replacement of the father via welfare, government benefits paying more for unmarried women and more for more children. Planned. Paid for with our tax dollars. This stuff is planned dependency for a voting block.

SFGbob

UW_Doog_Bot said:

I grew up being the go-to white guy to talk to the cops for all of my non-white friends.

I don't know how much more clearly I can demonstrate how there's a divergence in people's experience of the police based on their color.

And the cops, because they encounter so many more black kids engaging in criminal behavior treat blacks differently.

UW_Doog_Bot

SFGbob said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:

I grew up being the go-to white guy to talk to the cops for all of my non-white friends.

I don't know how much more clearly I can demonstrate how there's a divergence in people's experience of the police based on their color.

And the cops, because they encounter so many more black kids engaging in criminal behavior treat blacks differently.

How's that work out for all of my non-white friends that weren't black? (Hint:There's a lot of them and they don't belong to one group)

Plain and simple, if you are white and the officer is white you get treated differently.

It's not the responsibility of the individual to make up for a group they superficially belong to.

This is individual rights 101. There shouldn't be different standards for different citizens. Blind justice etc.

SFGbob

GreenRiverGatorz said:

MikeDamone said:

creepycoug said:

RaceBannon said:

I believe Savy. But the same genetics that gave him Black skin and the problems he described also gave him rare size and athletic talent that combined with his hard work gives him unlimited opportunity going forward.

Would he trade with a 5 foot 10 130 high school senior who is white?

I agree we try too many one size fits all fixes. Zero tolerance is lazy and stupid. Make calls based on the individual.

America actually discusses race quite a bit. Since I was a youngin. Sometimes its honest sometimes it is not. It is still tough to be a young black male and its better than ever. Everyone is a victim of something or they choose to be a victor. That crosses all races.

I agree with this. I also believe the bolded part. I don't know why black men commit such a disproportionate share of violent crime, and I suspect nobody in this thread does either.

So we've eliminated the role of racism ... because we're in the Tug. Ok, stipulated (for you dullards, that means don't keep arguing the point; you won).

The question that remains is, why? Bob says too many illegitimate births and not enough Dads. Ok, let's stipulate that, too (because it's basically true). If that's a big cause (debatable but plausible), why? Why is the black experience so often that of a broken home and poverty, etc. etc.?

Yeah, Smalls has opportunity because he won the genetic lottery. But most people don't win lotteries ... of any kind. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a lottery.

Westlinn says he'll follow the black kid in the store because statistics. Ok, understood. Does that have an effect on that black kid? That collective experience? Seems like it plays out in contact with the police here and there.

I don't like the race game anymore than the next guy. What's the real driver? Maybe the biggest question: does the Tug think that the black community shouldn't be pissed off? Or, rather, should all of us be pissed off about police brutality? FWIW, the latter is where I lean. We need the cops. But we need them to do a better job sifting through their ranks to sort out the murder boners (props to whomever came up with that one).

I think the “why” is the disintegration of the family. This applies to all races. Blacks have a higher incidence of single parent or no parent households than whites and especially Asians (who seem to do very well despite being “people of color). I wonder what percentage people of all races who commit violent crimes come from a similar background. People also might blame poverty caused by racism. I would be more inclined to blame poverty based on the disintegration of the family and a failing education system. Those to things seem to lead to poverty regardless of race.

The “Great Society” policies of the late sixties was a real winner....

But the question still remains, why are black men disproportionately abandoning their families, even when economic status is held constant?

Is it something inherent in black culture? Is it some form of institutionalized oppression? Does the latter influence the former? And furthermore, regardless of what you see the cause being, how the fuck do we fix it?

I don't believe it used to be part of black culture but it certainly is now. Acceptance of people having children out of wedlock has grown for all races but none more so than with blacks. The very same middle class values that white liberals try and instill on their own kids, they don't believe need to be instilled on black and Hispanic kids. Do you think the Dazzler encouraged his daughters to have kids out of wedlock?

Society didn't used to have a problem pushing this kind of societal value on everyone but now we do. Now we as a society push values such as not using the word "fag" and supporting green energy. Imagine if our schools spent as much time and energy on encouraging people to get married before they have kids as they do on Climate Change.

jhfstyle24

Okay, I'm going to try and offer my perspective on this in as nuanced a way as I can here. Hopefully this makes sense. Going to be a little wordy.

What a lot of people get confused when they hear about systemic racism is this idea that being white AUTOMATICALLY means everything is easier because of it. That isn't how it works.

Just because you are white doesn't mean that everything is automatically easy and just because you are black doesn't mean everything is automatically hard. A lot of people have that misconception and it isn't true.

I don't want to offer my experience as the be all and end all, because I'm a privileged little fuck, but I will relate what I hear from peers and friends as I try to get a better understanding of what it is they go through.

There are really 2 types of racism - there's the conscious/unconscious bias and intentionally/unintentionally offensive things people say and do, which I call confrontational racism, and then there is the systemic portion. Confrontational racism plays into systemic racism, but they are separate things.

A lot of people hear "systemic racism" and immediately get defensive because it sounds like they are being accused of personal racism. That's not at all what it is.

Systemic racism is hard to define, but in essence it's the idea that through no fault of their own the system works worse for some people.

Factors in this:

1. Education. This is a main one, really. Schools in poor areas that have predominantly kids of color get about $1600 less per student than the national mean, whereas schools in poor areas that have predominantly white kids get about $130 less.

Does that "prove" anything? Of course not, but just a factor. Worse educational systems means lesser education means lowered college chances means less income and it becomes a vicious cycle as no one channels funds to the locations in need. A lot of it is due to lower taxes meaning they can't get paid for.

2. Ripple effect from slavery/segregation.

A lot of people think that because these things are over there's no longer an issue. After slavery was ended, uneducated former slaves were sent out into the world with no way to try and adapt and become literate and get jobs and try and "bridge the gap" between themselves and the ruling white upper class. Even though slavery was over, segregation and racism still remained. Jim Crow laws. The inability to vote. Hell, all forms of segregation weren't outlawed until 1968. And with all of these things, it takes time for the impacts to dissolve and the gap to close. For example:

-The net worth of a typical white family is $171,000, and for a black family it's $17,150.

For what it's worth, it's better to use median than average wealth because average wealth is skewed by the zillionaires.

-The average (not median) white family has $929,000, whereas the average black family has $138,000. This is skewed by the Bezos and Gates types.

A lot of this disparity is in home ownership, which for minorities dropped a shit ton after the Great Recession (because those same minorities were more likely to be given subprime loans. I'm just pointing out numbers here, not telling you what they mean in context.


3. Confrontational racism/implicit bias in hiring.

Blacks with college degrees are twice as likely to be unemployed than other graduates. A study found that, with identical resumes, white-sounding names are 50% (aka 1.5 times) more likely to be called back for a job opening than black-sounding names. So it can be harder to find jobs to cut into that gap noted above.

4. Mass incarceration (mostly from war on drugs). To me this is a huge one and it plays directly into police issues.

You can cite crime rates/violent crime rates etc but the fact I'm citing is that black Americans make up 40% of the prison population despite being 13% of the overall population. They typically face longer sentences for the same crimes and a higher chance of being arrested for the same crimes. So it's more likely that black children grow up without guiding influence, often unfairly, which in turn reinforces the very things that lead to mass incarceration and lowered wealth.

This is a vicious cycle. Black people are more likely to be incarcerated which means less guidance for their kids which means those kids without guidance are going to be more likely to engage in those same behaviors which means they will be incarcerated even more, and nothing is really done to try and prevent this. Instead we just point fingers.

These are just some factors that add up into a system that seems rigged.

The biggest misconception is that these factors mean it automatically everything is worse for all black people than it is for all white people. It isn't! It's just an extra element to deal with. There are all other kinds of elements that play into what it means to have privilege.

It is completely possible that, as a white person, you face more difficulties than a black person. The idea of systemic racism is just that it's more likely for minorities to face difficulties. That's literally all it is.


And again, this isn't blaming anybody on this board for this. It's a combination of factors that add up.

Does this make sense? I'm probably not the best person to explain it.

What this post DOES NOT mean:
-All white people are privileged. Obviously not true.
-All black people are underprivileged. Also obviously not true.
-It's always harder for black people than white people. Not true. It can be harder for white people too.

This post is just about a factor in the overall idea that is privilege.

WestlinnDuck

People are people and being a cop is dangerous. If black males are causing most of the crime, they are going to get more attention. You can go body search a nun at the airport or the 8 year old little girl. I'll spend more time on Arab males.

SFGbob

UW_Doog_Bot said:

SFGbob said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:

I grew up being the go-to white guy to talk to the cops for all of my non-white friends.

I don't know how much more clearly I can demonstrate how there's a divergence in people's experience of the police based on their color.

And the cops, because they encounter so many more black kids engaging in criminal behavior treat blacks differently.

How's that work out for all of my non-white friends that weren't black? (Hint:There's a lot of them and they don't belong to one group)

Plain and simple, if you are white and the officer is white you get treated differently.

It's not the responsibility of the individual to make up for a group they superficially belong to.

This is individual rights 101. There shouldn't be different standards for different citizens. Blind justice etc.

I agree, but human nature being what it is I'm just explaining why some cops act the way they do.

Btw, living in LA in the late 80s early 90s the cops treated every young person like crap. But you're right, blacks got it even worse.

TurdBomber

WilburHooksHands said:

Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.

Hollow words. Prove it.

TurdBomber

GreenRiverGatorz said:

I'm not black either, so I can only forward what actual black people have said. Here's a perspective from one of our incoming recruits. As someone who isn't black, I don't encounter any of the constant stressors and anxieties that he's outlining. That's what people mean when they say "systemic racism" and "white privilege".

You can always choose to not believe him, or say it's all overblown, but you shouldn't be confused about what the argument is.

Soft AF. Sorry. Prepare for a Disappointment.