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Systemic racism

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  • SledogSledog Member Posts: 34,240 Standard Supporter
    edited June 2020

    Sledog said:

    I believe Savy. But the same genetics that gave him Black skin and the problems he described also gave him rare size and athletic talent that combined with his hard work gives him unlimited opportunity going forward.

    Would he trade with a 5 foot 10 130 high school senior who is white?

    I agree we try too many one size fits all fixes. Zero tolerance is lazy and stupid. Make calls based on the individual.

    America actually discusses race quite a bit. Since I was a youngin. Sometimes its honest sometimes it is not. It is still tough to be a young black male and its better than ever. Everyone is a victim of something or they choose to be a victor. That crosses all races.

    I agree with this. I also believe the bolded part. I don't know why black men commit such a disproportionate share of violent crime, and I suspect nobody in this thread does either.

    So we've eliminated the role of racism ... because we're in the Tug. Ok, stipulated (for you dullards, that means don't keep arguing the point; you won).

    The question that remains is, why? Bob says too many illegitimate births and not enough Dads. Ok, let's stipulate that, too (because it's basically true). If that's a big cause (debatable but plausible), why? Why is the black experience so often that of a broken home and poverty, etc. etc.?

    Yeah, Smalls has opportunity because he won the genetic lottery. But most people don't win lotteries ... of any kind. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a lottery.

    Westlinn says he'll follow the black kid in the store because statistics. Ok, understood. Does that have an effect on that black kid? That collective experience? Seems like it plays out in contact with the police here and there.

    I don't like the race game anymore than the next guy. What's the real driver? Maybe the biggest question: does the Tug think that the black community shouldn't be pissed off? Or, rather, should all of us be pissed off about police brutality? FWIW, the latter is where I lean. We need the cops. But we need them to do a better job sifting through their ranks to sort out the murder boners (props to whomever came up with that one).
    America had a fairly large middle class black population years ago, I suggest you look at the cause of it's destruction. You'll find many of the answers.
    Or you can just spit it out. I'm lazy.
    Destruction of the black family, replacement of the father via welfare, government benefits paying more for unmarried women and more for more children. Planned. Paid for with our tax dollars. This stuff is planned dependency for a voting block.
  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 32,661

    I grew up being the go-to white guy to talk to the cops for all of my non-white friends.

    I don't know how much more clearly I can demonstrate how there's a divergence in people's experience of the police based on their color.

    And the cops, because they encounter so many more black kids engaging in criminal behavior treat blacks differently.
  • UW_Doog_BotUW_Doog_Bot Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 15,981 Swaye's Wigwam
    SFGbob said:

    I grew up being the go-to white guy to talk to the cops for all of my non-white friends.

    I don't know how much more clearly I can demonstrate how there's a divergence in people's experience of the police based on their color.

    And the cops, because they encounter so many more black kids engaging in criminal behavior treat blacks differently.
    How's that work out for all of my non-white friends that weren't black? (Hint:There's a lot of them and they don't belong to one group)

    Plain and simple, if you are white and the officer is white you get treated differently.

    It's not the responsibility of the individual to make up for a group they superficially belong to.

    This is individual rights 101. There shouldn't be different standards for different citizens. Blind justice etc.
  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 32,661

    I believe Savy. But the same genetics that gave him Black skin and the problems he described also gave him rare size and athletic talent that combined with his hard work gives him unlimited opportunity going forward.

    Would he trade with a 5 foot 10 130 high school senior who is white?

    I agree we try too many one size fits all fixes. Zero tolerance is lazy and stupid. Make calls based on the individual.

    America actually discusses race quite a bit. Since I was a youngin. Sometimes its honest sometimes it is not. It is still tough to be a young black male and its better than ever. Everyone is a victim of something or they choose to be a victor. That crosses all races.

    I agree with this. I also believe the bolded part. I don't know why black men commit such a disproportionate share of violent crime, and I suspect nobody in this thread does either.

    So we've eliminated the role of racism ... because we're in the Tug. Ok, stipulated (for you dullards, that means don't keep arguing the point; you won).

    The question that remains is, why? Bob says too many illegitimate births and not enough Dads. Ok, let's stipulate that, too (because it's basically true). If that's a big cause (debatable but plausible), why? Why is the black experience so often that of a broken home and poverty, etc. etc.?

    Yeah, Smalls has opportunity because he won the genetic lottery. But most people don't win lotteries ... of any kind. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a lottery.

    Westlinn says he'll follow the black kid in the store because statistics. Ok, understood. Does that have an effect on that black kid? That collective experience? Seems like it plays out in contact with the police here and there.

    I don't like the race game anymore than the next guy. What's the real driver? Maybe the biggest question: does the Tug think that the black community shouldn't be pissed off? Or, rather, should all of us be pissed off about police brutality? FWIW, the latter is where I lean. We need the cops. But we need them to do a better job sifting through their ranks to sort out the murder boners (props to whomever came up with that one).
    I think the “why” is the disintegration of the family. This applies to all races. Blacks have a higher incidence of single parent or no parent households than whites and especially Asians (who seem to do very well despite being “people of color). I wonder what percentage people of all races who commit violent crimes come from a similar background. People also might blame poverty caused by racism. I would be more inclined to blame poverty based on the disintegration of the family and a failing education system. Those to things seem to lead to poverty regardless of race.

    The “Great Society” policies of the late sixties was a real winner....
    But the question still remains, why are black men disproportionately abandoning their families, even when economic status is held constant?

    Is it something inherent in black culture? Is it some form of institutionalized oppression? Does the latter influence the former? And furthermore, regardless of what you see the cause being, how the fuck do we fix it?
    I don't believe it used to be part of black culture but it certainly is now. Acceptance of people having children out of wedlock has grown for all races but none more so than with blacks. The very same middle class values that white liberals try and instill on their own kids, they don't believe need to be instilled on black and Hispanic kids. Do you think the Dazzler encouraged his daughters to have kids out of wedlock?

    Society didn't used to have a problem pushing this kind of societal value on everyone but now we do. Now we as a society push values such as not using the word "fag" and supporting green energy. Imagine if our schools spent as much time and energy on encouraging people to get married before they have kids as they do on Climate Change.

  • WestlinnDuckWestlinnDuck Member Posts: 15,558 Standard Supporter
    People are people and being a cop is dangerous. If black males are causing most of the crime, they are going to get more attention. You can go body search a nun at the airport or the 8 year old little girl. I'll spend more time on Arab males.
  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 32,661

    SFGbob said:

    I grew up being the go-to white guy to talk to the cops for all of my non-white friends.

    I don't know how much more clearly I can demonstrate how there's a divergence in people's experience of the police based on their color.

    And the cops, because they encounter so many more black kids engaging in criminal behavior treat blacks differently.
    How's that work out for all of my non-white friends that weren't black? (Hint:There's a lot of them and they don't belong to one group)

    Plain and simple, if you are white and the officer is white you get treated differently.

    It's not the responsibility of the individual to make up for a group they superficially belong to.

    This is individual rights 101. There shouldn't be different standards for different citizens. Blind justice etc.
    I agree, but human nature being what it is I'm just explaining why some cops act the way they do.

    Btw, living in LA in the late 80s early 90s the cops treated every young person like crap. But you're right, blacks got it even worse.
  • TurdBomberTurdBomber Member Posts: 19,976 Standard Supporter

    Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.

    Hollow words. Prove it.
  • TurdBomberTurdBomber Member Posts: 19,976 Standard Supporter

    I'm not black either, so I can only forward what actual black people have said. Here's a perspective from one of our incoming recruits. As someone who isn't black, I don't encounter any of the constant stressors and anxieties that he's outlining. That's what people mean when they say "systemic racism" and "white privilege".

    You can always choose to not believe him, or say it's all overblown, but you shouldn't be confused about what the argument is.


    Soft AF. Sorry. Prepare for a Disappointment.
  • WilburHooksHandsWilburHooksHands Member Posts: 6,803

    End the ass-backwards war on drugs. That alone would cover a huge percentage of our fucked up incarceration numbers.

    One of the country’s biggest long term disasters
  • TurdBomberTurdBomber Member Posts: 19,976 Standard Supporter
    SFGbob said:

    Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.

    Do mean the severe sentencing for crack that the Black Congressional Caucus called for back in the 80s?

    I recall black democrats calling Reagan a racist because he didn't do enough to fight the crack epidemic.
    Fucking This. Have you whiny fucks were sucking on your mommy's titties in 1994 and you speak of the horrendous injustices like you were there. If you weren't, STFU, cause you don't know shit.
  • WilburHooksHandsWilburHooksHands Member Posts: 6,803

    Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.

    Hollow words. Prove it.
    lol
  • TurdBomberTurdBomber Member Posts: 19,976 Standard Supporter

    So, if your store was having a shoplifting problem that was caused by young black men, is your following a young black man systemic racism? You know who plays the knockout game? I'd be watchful around young black men on a public street. A young black recruit at a Pac 12 school has a lot going for him. Tough to see how systemic racism has hurt him.

    That's called "prejudice" not racism, but the Left blends them together. Prejudice isn't fair to the person suffering it, but they are paying for another's sins by association, from real events that really do occur and lead to stereotypes based on behavior. If we didn't practice legitimate forms of prejudice, humans would never have made it out of Africa, cause they'd all have been eaten by lions. Think about it: It's called being human.
  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 32,661

    People are people and being a cop is dangerous. If black males are causing most of the crime, they are going to get more attention. You can go body search a nun at the airport or the 8 year old little girl. I'll spend more time on Arab males.

    Also because of the high crime in many black neighborhoods you're going to have a greater police presence and thus increase you're likelihood of having encounters with the police. If I'm a law abiding person living in that neighborhood and I'm black I'm going to get tired of being hassled by the cops.
  • TurdBomberTurdBomber Member Posts: 19,976 Standard Supporter

    Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.

    Blacks commit way over 40 perent of crime. I think it might be low 50s. I don't have time to look it up. I suppose it's somehow white people's fault though. Oppression and shit.
    The argument is they get charged more severely for less serious crimes or charges when others would be not charged at all. Also harsher sentences for the same crimes. I think the harsher sentence part is true.

    But what's also true is black men commit over 50% of all homicides. That stat can't be skewed by DA and judges.
    "Offender Scores" are earned under standardized sentencing laws. Judges barely have any discretion in the matters since the 1980s and 1990s sentencing reforms. More criminal history means longer sentences for the supposedly "same" crimes. This is a stupid argument made by stupid people.
  • PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 44,531 Standard Supporter
    edited June 2020
    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    I believe Savy. But the same genetics that gave him Black skin and the problems he described also gave him rare size and athletic talent that combined with his hard work gives him unlimited opportunity going forward.

    Would he trade with a 5 foot 10 130 high school senior who is white?

    I agree we try too many one size fits all fixes. Zero tolerance is lazy and stupid. Make calls based on the individual.

    America actually discusses race quite a bit. Since I was a youngin. Sometimes its honest sometimes it is not. It is still tough to be a young black male and its better than ever. Everyone is a victim of something or they choose to be a victor. That crosses all races.

    I agree with this. I also believe the bolded part. I don't know why black men commit such a disproportionate share of violent crime, and I suspect nobody in this thread does either.

    So we've eliminated the role of racism ... because we're in the Tug. Ok, stipulated (for you dullards, that means don't keep arguing the point; you won).

    The question that remains is, why? Bob says too many illegitimate births and not enough Dads. Ok, let's stipulate that, too (because it's basically true). If that's a big cause (debatable but plausible), why? Why is the black experience so often that of a broken home and poverty, etc. etc.?

    Yeah, Smalls has opportunity because he won the genetic lottery. But most people don't win lotteries ... of any kind. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a lottery.

    Westlinn says he'll follow the black kid in the store because statistics. Ok, understood. Does that have an effect on that black kid? That collective experience? Seems like it plays out in contact with the police here and there.

    I don't like the race game anymore than the next guy. What's the real driver? Maybe the biggest question: does the Tug think that the black community shouldn't be pissed off? Or, rather, should all of us be pissed off about police brutality? FWIW, the latter is where I lean. We need the cops. But we need them to do a better job sifting through their ranks to sort out the murder boners (props to whomever came up with that one).
    America had a fairly large middle class black population years ago, I suggest you look at the cause of it's destruction. You'll find many of the answers.
    Or you can just spit it out. I'm lazy.
    Destruction of the black family, replacement of the father via welfare, government benefits paying more for unmarried women and more for more children. Planned. Paid for with our tax dollars. This stuff is planned dependency for a voting block.
    The crack epidemic hit african-american neighborhoods with about 100X more intensity than the suburbs. Knew quite a few guys who got sucked into that black (no pun intended) hole.

  • WilburHooksHandsWilburHooksHands Member Posts: 6,803

    Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.

    Blacks commit way over 40 perent of crime. I think it might be low 50s. I don't have time to look it up. I suppose it's somehow white people's fault though. Oppression and shit.
    The argument is they get charged more severely for less serious crimes or charges when others would be not charged at all. Also harsher sentences for the same crimes. I think the harsher sentence part is true.

    But what's also true is black men commit over 50% of all homicides. That stat can't be skewed by DA and judges.
    "Offender Scores" are earned under standardized sentencing laws. Judges barely have any discretion in the matters since the 1980s and 1990s sentencing reforms. More criminal history means longer sentences for the supposedly "same" crimes. This is a stupid argument made by stupid people.
    at least your handle is on point from shitting all over this thread
  • TurdBomberTurdBomber Member Posts: 19,976 Standard Supporter
    edited June 2020

    I believe Savy. But the same genetics that gave him Black skin and the problems he described also gave him rare size and athletic talent that combined with his hard work gives him unlimited opportunity going forward.

    Would he trade with a 5 foot 10 130 high school senior who is white?

    I agree we try too many one size fits all fixes. Zero tolerance is lazy and stupid. Make calls based on the individual.

    America actually discusses race quite a bit. Since I was a youngin. Sometimes its honest sometimes it is not. It is still tough to be a young black male and its better than ever. Everyone is a victim of something or they choose to be a victor. That crosses all races.

    I agree with this. I also believe the bolded part. I don't know why black men commit such a disproportionate share of violent crime, and I suspect nobody in this thread does either.

    So we've eliminated the role of racism ... because we're in the Tug. Ok, stipulated (for you dullards, that means don't keep arguing the point; you won).

    The question that remains is, why? Bob says too many illegitimate births and not enough Dads. Ok, let's stipulate that, too (because it's basically true). If that's a big cause (debatable but plausible), why? Why is the black experience so often that of a broken home and poverty, etc. etc.?

    Yeah, Smalls has opportunity because he won the genetic lottery. But most people don't win lotteries ... of any kind. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a lottery.

    Westlinn says he'll follow the black kid in the store because statistics. Ok, understood. Does that have an effect on that black kid? That collective experience? Seems like it plays out in contact with the police here and there.

    I don't like the race game anymore than the next guy. What's the real driver? Maybe the biggest question: does the Tug think that the black community shouldn't be pissed off? Or, rather, should all of us be pissed off about police brutality? FWIW, the latter is where I lean. We need the cops. But we need them to do a better job sifting through their ranks to sort out the murder boners (props to whomever came up with that one).
    Here's a few: Disproportionately high numbers of unmarried parents or absent fathers, poor socialization in the community that is conditioned to blame others for their own bad decisions or plight, "allies" who will excuse, apologize for or fail to hold wrongdoers accountable in the classroom, on the playground, or in sports when they transgress fair treatment of others or break the rules. In other words, poor socialization that dooms them to a predisposition for escaping consequences for their actions, until it's way, way too late. Shit happens every day in our public schools.

    Ultimately, many white allies are simply afraid of the black community rising up and conquering them, so they continuously appease. They lie through their teeth to avoid telling the truth, which is that they simply fear black people. Sorry folks, but fear of the proverbial "other" is at the root of much of it.
  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 32,661

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    I believe Savy. But the same genetics that gave him Black skin and the problems he described also gave him rare size and athletic talent that combined with his hard work gives him unlimited opportunity going forward.

    Would he trade with a 5 foot 10 130 high school senior who is white?

    I agree we try too many one size fits all fixes. Zero tolerance is lazy and stupid. Make calls based on the individual.

    America actually discusses race quite a bit. Since I was a youngin. Sometimes its honest sometimes it is not. It is still tough to be a young black male and its better than ever. Everyone is a victim of something or they choose to be a victor. That crosses all races.

    I agree with this. I also believe the bolded part. I don't know why black men commit such a disproportionate share of violent crime, and I suspect nobody in this thread does either.

    So we've eliminated the role of racism ... because we're in the Tug. Ok, stipulated (for you dullards, that means don't keep arguing the point; you won).

    The question that remains is, why? Bob says too many illegitimate births and not enough Dads. Ok, let's stipulate that, too (because it's basically true). If that's a big cause (debatable but plausible), why? Why is the black experience so often that of a broken home and poverty, etc. etc.?

    Yeah, Smalls has opportunity because he won the genetic lottery. But most people don't win lotteries ... of any kind. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a lottery.

    Westlinn says he'll follow the black kid in the store because statistics. Ok, understood. Does that have an effect on that black kid? That collective experience? Seems like it plays out in contact with the police here and there.

    I don't like the race game anymore than the next guy. What's the real driver? Maybe the biggest question: does the Tug think that the black community shouldn't be pissed off? Or, rather, should all of us be pissed off about police brutality? FWIW, the latter is where I lean. We need the cops. But we need them to do a better job sifting through their ranks to sort out the murder boners (props to whomever came up with that one).
    America had a fairly large middle class black population years ago, I suggest you look at the cause of it's destruction. You'll find many of the answers.
    Or you can just spit it out. I'm lazy.
    Destruction of the black family, replacement of the father via welfare, government benefits paying more for unmarried women and more for more children. Planned. Paid for with our tax dollars. This stuff is planned dependency for a voting block.
    The crack epidemic hit african-american neighborhoods with about 100X more intensity than the suburbs. Knew quite a few guys who got sucked into that black (no pun intended) hole.

    Yep, it was every bit as bad as the opiate crisis is now and it involved a lot more violence among the people selling it on the streets.
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