Seattle metro hoops is massively overrated in my opinion
Lots of dudes can play ... no question about that
But there have been a lot of dudes coming out of Seattle that play super selfish individual ball that flames out
For all those that like to say the local kids want to put on for their school, family, and friends locally ... historically that hasn’t been true in hoops other than for fits and starts
umm teq what is your greater point with this?
There’s always this narrative that Seattle is this hot bed of hoops ... there are lots of very good players
UW has never really been the primary school of choice for the local kids ... that’s been true across multiple UW coaches
Most of the best players that this area has produced has gone elsewhere
I’m not super crazy about the general mindset that has come out locally tied to the local AAU level ... lots of kids playing individually and not tied to the team
Who is the last Seattle area kid that really did anything of consequence in college? Payton Siva?
Yeesh, you're all over the place in this thread bud and everything seems in the service of excusing the extreme incompetence that has largely been our coaching the past decade plus. I'd posit that our recruiting base and basketball-crazed culture puts us at a place far better than most programs. There are all the institutional and local resources to have the highest success here. Only through incompetence, and complacent/excuse-ridden ideologies have we managed to throw it mostly all away.
edit: and pulling out the 'LOLZ JUST BUY THE CONTRACT OUT THEN IF YOU WANT HIM GONE' is from the DoogFS playbook, chapter 1, and you should have known that 20 years ago. How can you unironically pull that shit now dude
Funny thing is, the football program is more successful, and the recruiting base here for that sport sucks. Seattle produces a ton of hoops talent, and you need a small fraction of the bodies for bb than you do fb.
There is no excuse or explanation other than coaching and institutional incompetence.
I have to say this too: every time some elite basketball recruit out of Seattle chooses UW I am stunned. Fucking stunned. Because those kids could go anywhere else and get the best of both worlds: [truly] elite academis + elite, or at least competent, hoops. How does a kid choose Washington if he could play in the ACC for Duke or UNC. By all rights it should have to compete hard against Wake or Georgia Tech or Syracuse. Stanford & UCLA are no-brainers.
The way I can pull the buy him out of his contract card is because he’s got 5 years left on his deal and whether the buyout is $6M or $12M or anything in between, this Athletic Department doesn’t have the $$$ laying around to make that happen without some mighty big donations tied to buying him out
How do I know this?
It’s well publicized that the coaching salaries for football are down ... I seriously doubt it is all going to recruiting
We didn’t buy out either Gregory or Boner at fractions of what Hop requires
Football revenues are worrisome because of how shitty the home schedule is combined with what I’m sure is being anticipated as an increase in churn plus lower single game ticket sales ... the sizable increase in tickets YoY in the 15-20% range suggest to me that they are trying to break even in revenue
There’s a far bigger disaster than Hop sitting over on the women’s side of the hoops building and she’d be sitting on a buyout as well with 2 years left on her deal
So when I say to people are you prepared to buy Hop out, it’s not because I’m serving up stupid ass doog excuses or talking points. It’s because I’m looking at an Athletic Dept that isn’t flush with cash due to anything other than their own doing (i.e. thank you Larry Scott) ... without that kind of $$$ laying around to change course if/when you identify the mistake, you are stuck in a really difficult spot.
There was an article from I believe The Athletic in the last month that said one of the big issues with the $$$ divide between the SEC/Big 10 and everybody else is the amount of pressure for the others to get hires right ... being able to get out from under those contracts if they aren’t the right hires is crippling to ADs and/or boosters
BTW, going after Hop should require equal venom at Cohen as her hiring track record, particularly with basketball, is questionable at best and putrid at worst.
See 54 new posts in the "Hop sucks donkey balls" thread.
Hope all the activity means Hop's been fired.
Read thread.
Remember why I rarely come to the b-ball bored.
Look for bleach and a shot glass.
50+ new comments!!!!
Here I thought there would be some new take or information about Hop leaving or something, instead its Tommy trying to run Teq's ass and a "discussion" on the local talent UW doesnt recruit
Thread plays out as about the same as the basketball season did; decent start, issues but still some promise, absolute shit show collapse, Roadie trying to carry the thread like Stewart, more collapse, apathy
I just like to help doogs find their way back home to Doogman where they can really shine.
To put this in perspective, this squad would give its left nut for a Ryan Appleby right now.
Think about that. Ryan Fucking Appleby is a value-add to the shit show that Hop has cobbled together.
I mean, I love me some gritty whiteboy guards but when Apples is what you'd plug in right this second as an upgrade, that's just wrong.
Before CJ Wilcox he was the best 3 point shooter in school history, hell maybe the best considering he had fewer seasons at UW, I don’t care enough to check. I don’t think that’s saying a lot that he would be an upgrade on a team with only 1 actual shooter, who also happens to be a true freshman playing limited minutes. Apples was a valued piece on one of our best teams. I’d take an Appleby type every year if I could. Teams that can’t shoot suck. This team can’t shoot.
BRoy, Appleby, Burmeister, Brockman, Wolfinger, Wallace, Gasser - all local boys. Sweet 16.
Year before - BRoy, Simmons, Nate, Conroy, Jensen.....Sweet 16
But 'historically' the local talent sucks. Right?
You're really citing Burmeister, Wolfinger, Wallace, and Gasser as proof of local talent = Sweet 16?
Get the fuck out with that take ... that's terrible
CAREER point/rebound/assist totals for those JAGs at Washington
Burmeister: 178/67/44
Wolfinger: 144/56/8
Wallace: 239/207/35
Gasser: 193/124/38
Wolfinger was never on a Sweet 16 team ... I think you're confusing him with Zane Potter
See 54 new posts in the "Hop sucks donkey balls" thread.
Hope all the activity means Hop's been fired.
Read thread.
Remember why I rarely come to the b-ball bored.
Look for bleach and a shot glass.
50+ new comments!!!!
Here I thought there would be some new take or information about Hop leaving or something, instead its Tommy trying to run Teq's ass and a "discussion" on the local talent UW doesnt recruit
Thread plays out as about the same as the basketball season did; decent start, issues but still some promise, absolute shit show collapse, Roadie trying to carry the thread like Stewart, more collapse, apathy
I just like to help doogs find their way back home to Doogman where they can really shine.
To put this in perspective, this squad would give its left nut for a Ryan Appleby right now.
Think about that. Ryan Fucking Appleby is a value-add to the shit show that Hop has cobbled together.
I mean, I love me some gritty whiteboy guards but when Apples is what you'd plug in right this second as an upgrade, that's just wrong.
Before CJ Wilcox he was the best 3 point shooter in school history, hell maybe the best considering he had fewer seasons at UW, I don’t care enough to check. I don’t think that’s saying a lot that he would be an upgrade on a team with only 1 actual shooter, who also happens to be a true freshman playing limited minutes. Apples was a valued piece on one of our best teams. I’d take an Appleby type every year if I could. Teams that can’t shoot suck. This team can’t shoot.
BRoy, Appleby, Burmeister, Brockman, Wolfinger, Wallace, Gasser - all local boys. Sweet 16.
Year before - BRoy, Simmons, Nate, Conroy, Jensen.....Sweet 16
But 'historically' the local talent sucks. Right?
You're really citing Burmeister, Wolfinger, Wallace, and Gasser as proof of local talent = Sweet 16?
Get the fuck out with that take ... that's terrible
CAREER point/rebound/assist totals for those JAGs at Washington
Burmeister: 178/67/44
Wolfinger: 144/56/8
Wallace: 239/207/35
Gasser: 193/124/38
Wolfinger was never on a Sweet 16 team ... I think you're confusing him with Zane Potter
The Improbable come from behind victory against Baylor showed a grit and determination that erased any doubt the young freshman wouldn't be ready for prime time.
Now a double digits lead in the second half is a guaranteed collapse.
Probably a pretty uncomfortable locker room. Stewart is one of my favorite Huskies of all time, too bad it had to be like this.
What's crazy is they still have the talent to win the P12 tourney.
Exactly
They could just as easily be at the top of the P12 as the bottom of it
Ummm, you haven't watched the last 10 games.
Talent isn’t why they are where they are
They’ve been in positions to win basically every game they’ve played
I don’t expect them to do much of anything going forward
I do think they probably win 2 of their last 3 at home
Let me try to be a little clearer with my points ... it's fair that I've been responding to different aspects and points and likely not solidified any real opinion in full so let me be clear
1) There's plenty of evidence to suggest that there are NBA caliber players that come out of Seattle and Washington St
2) UW has historically not done well keeping in-state players at UW
3) Many of the recent players coming out of the Seattle area and AAU scene over the last 10 years or so has been iffy IMO in terms of doing much of anything (I think this coincides with the FOH vs Seattle Rotary world)
Throughout the history of the NBA, there have been a total of 61 players that have either played in the NBA and/or ABA and of those 61, 29 of those started in the NBA in the last 20 years (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/birthplaces.cgi?country=US&state=WA). It's probably missing a few local kids that have been born outside of the area, but it's a decent list to start the discussion.
Sorting the list by the top 20 scorers (overall points), only 6 of the 20 played college hoops at UW (James Edwards, IT, Nate, BRoy, and Spencer/Steve Hawes).
When you look at the list, what you see is a bunch of dudes that left the area for college: Jamal Crawford (Michigan), Jason Terry (Arizona), Marvin Williams (UNC), Doug Christie (Pepperdine), Avery Bradley (Texas), Aaron Brooks (Oregon), and Zach LaVine (UCLA). This list isn't including guys off the top of my head that I know were Western Washington guys that left like Michael Dickerson and Luke Ridnour.
If we go more recently of guys that we missed on not previously mentioned you can add to the list guys like Kevin Porter (USC), Allonzo Trier (Arizona), Peyton Siva (Louisville), and Terrence Williams (Louisville) over the last 10 years
So my point on the Seattle/Washington recruiting base is that while I have no problem acknowledging that there's talent, there's really not a huge amount of evidence to suggest that local kids are looking to stay home. In fact, the evidence suggests more often than not that they are prepared to leave home.
And to this idea that Hop hasn't recruited locally is one that doesn't really resonate with me ... in last year's class he signed McDaniels (Federal Way), Battle (Marysville Pilchuck), and Tsohonis (Portland) ... so when you are getting 3 guys from essentially your NW footprint, that's telling me that you're recruiting locally.
Someone mentioned that the 2020 class is pretty much trash locally ... and it's showing in that we've got nothing. We went for more big time recruits and we've failed big time there. This is where not having a recruiting strategy that hits internationally, etc. becomes a major issue.
I'm not trying to doog here but I really don't know what people are expecting out of Hopkins ... it seems like a massive amount of Monday Morning QB'ing to me. This year has sucked ... no question. But nobody would have looked at the recruiting class for this year and been disappointed in terms of quality or attention locally. The question for me is how he pivots off of this year whether it be one and done's vs widening his net for years where the local base isn't worth a damn, etc. Does he focus on recruiting the best talent possible and trying to figure it out or does he focus more on culture and fits? Is targeting more 3 and 4 year players going forward?
There's a whole laundry list of items to look at in terms of the on court product. I think @RoadDawg55 is on to something in saying that I think one of Hop's big misses (and this is a consistent Syracuse issue) is that he leaned more to long and lanky athletes instead of guys that can shoot. The game has shifted to the ability to space the court and shoot being the most important skill in the game (followed closely on being able to penetrate and create shots for others). We all can bitch at scheme but ultimately at some point players have to play with effort and execute. I've seen way too many examples of guys making selfish plays and creating difficult situations for themselves to just sit there and not say that the players have some accountability for it.
As for the season, my explanation for what has gone wrong is as follows:
1) Quade Green being academically ineligible
The team was 11-4 with Green and is 1-10 since then. When you look at the numbers, it makes a ton of sense as to why as Quade had the highest offensive rating of anybody on the roster and was the only significant player that had a defensive rating over 100 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/washington/2020.html). It's fair to be critical of Quade for not only not handling his business, but also to question what oversight was in place to prevent this from happening. It's impossible not to see how important Green's absence is when 7 of the 10 losses since Quade has been ineligible have been by 6 points or less.
2) Lack of defense/effort = immaturity
Everybody wants to play offense ... it's a sign of any young and immature player at any level of play in any sport. They want the glory that comes with the highlight and getting points. Anybody that has played any amount of sports knows that games are one through details and effort. Anybody that has played hoops knows the importance of getting on the ground for loose balls. We don't do that ... we waist bend. It's like people are afraid to get hurt. But the defense is bad. The hustle back is bad. The defensive rating on this team is putrid. Stewart is at 92.9, McDaniels at 94.2, and Carter at 94.5. When your 3 best players aren't putting in a great work rate defensively, it's going to filter across the team.
3) Naz wasn't able to take the leap
One of the areas that was required for this team to take a leap forward this year was Naz taking a leap forward and getting into a leadership role as a Junior. Instead of taking the reigns and running, particularly after Green got suspended, he's pretty much turned into a guy that is a high end role player at best as every single metric for him is either the same or worst this year. His shooting % is down as his shot selection isn't great. He remains a low 60% FT shooter. His scoring per 40 minutes is at comparable levels even though he's in theory being given more opportunities. His rating on both ends of the floor have taken dramatic dips. Not taking a step up to at least an honorable conference level, he's basically just turned into a supporting piece and shifted the brunt of the burden on the shoulders of young players that aren't ready to handle it.
See 54 new posts in the "Hop sucks donkey balls" thread.
Hope all the activity means Hop's been fired.
Read thread.
Remember why I rarely come to the b-ball bored.
Look for bleach and a shot glass.
50+ new comments!!!!
Here I thought there would be some new take or information about Hop leaving or something, instead its Tommy trying to run Teq's ass and a "discussion" on the local talent UW doesnt recruit
Thread plays out as about the same as the basketball season did; decent start, issues but still some promise, absolute shit show collapse, Roadie trying to carry the thread like Stewart, more collapse, apathy
I just like to help doogs find their way back home to Doogman where they can really shine.
To put this in perspective, this squad would give its left nut for a Ryan Appleby right now.
Think about that. Ryan Fucking Appleby is a value-add to the shit show that Hop has cobbled together.
I mean, I love me some gritty whiteboy guards but when Apples is what you'd plug in right this second as an upgrade, that's just wrong.
Before CJ Wilcox he was the best 3 point shooter in school history, hell maybe the best considering he had fewer seasons at UW, I don’t care enough to check. I don’t think that’s saying a lot that he would be an upgrade on a team with only 1 actual shooter, who also happens to be a true freshman playing limited minutes. Apples was a valued piece on one of our best teams. I’d take an Appleby type every year if I could. Teams that can’t shoot suck. This team can’t shoot.
BRoy, Appleby, Burmeister, Brockman, Wolfinger, Wallace, Gasser - all local boys. Sweet 16.
Year before - BRoy, Simmons, Nate, Conroy, Jensen.....Sweet 16
But 'historically' the local talent sucks. Right?
You're really citing Burmeister, Wolfinger, Wallace, and Gasser as proof of local talent = Sweet 16?
Get the fuck out with that take ... that's terrible
CAREER point/rebound/assist totals for those JAGs at Washington
Burmeister: 178/67/44
Wolfinger: 144/56/8
Wallace: 239/207/35
Gasser: 193/124/38
Wolfinger was never on a Sweet 16 team ... I think you're confusing him with Zane Potter
Two sweet 16s. STFU
Only a scrub poster would cite scrubs as backing up his shitty ass points
Seattle metro hoops is massively overrated in my opinion
Lots of dudes can play ... no question about that
But there have been a lot of dudes coming out of Seattle that play super selfish individual ball that flames out
For all those that like to say the local kids want to put on for their school, family, and friends locally ... historically that hasn’t been true in hoops other than for fits and starts
Since history started in, like, 2012 or what?
BRoy, Brockman, Nate, Conroy, Kim Stewart, James Edwards, Mike Neill....how far back do you want to go historically?
There are ballers in Washington. Always have been.
This is on Hop.
Thybulle, Nowell, Crisp, Green just last year? Ya they weren't all the best but they were conference champs.
The Improbable come from behind victory against Baylor showed a grit and determination that erased any doubt the young freshman wouldn't be ready for prime time.
Now a double digits lead in the second half is a guaranteed collapse.
Probably a pretty uncomfortable locker room. Stewart is one of my favorite Huskies of all time, too bad it had to be like this.
What's crazy is they still have the talent to win the P12 tourney.
Exactly
They could just as easily be at the top of the P12 as the bottom of it
Ummm, you haven't watched the last 10 games.
Talent isn’t why they are where they are
They’ve been in positions to win basically every game they’ve played
I don’t expect them to do much of anything going forward
I do think they probably win 2 of their last 3 at home
spoken like a true Coug
By your standards Derek, that's a pretty good one
Only problem is that since Quade got suspended and UW has gone 1-10 since then, 7 of their 10 losses have been by 6 or less points. The only game where they were legitimately blown out was at Colorado.
The day that this site actually looks at things objectively instead of wanting to scorch the earth on everything will be the day that Hell Freezes Over and the USA turns into the United Socialists of America
Seattle metro hoops is massively overrated in my opinion
Lots of dudes can play ... no question about that
But there have been a lot of dudes coming out of Seattle that play super selfish individual ball that flames out
For all those that like to say the local kids want to put on for their school, family, and friends locally ... historically that hasn’t been true in hoops other than for fits and starts
What happened to you man??
No I never cared for your takes personally, but you definitely had some followers here at one point, and I usually at least understood and respected what you tried to say.
Have you lost your grasp of reality or has not having your butt buddies around exposed you as the boob you are?
Seattle metro hoops is massively overrated in my opinion
Lots of dudes can play ... no question about that
But there have been a lot of dudes coming out of Seattle that play super selfish individual ball that flames out
For all those that like to say the local kids want to put on for their school, family, and friends locally ... historically that hasn’t been true in hoops other than for fits and starts
What happened to you man??
No I never cared for your takes personally, but you definitely had some followers here at one point, and I usually at least understood and respected what you tried to say.
Have you lost your grasp of reality or has not having your butt buddies around exposed you as the boob you are?
Haven't lost my grasp of reality
I just don't fall into the category of sucking off Seattle area hoops as it pertains to UW. By and large, the local area has not shown a strong loyalty towards UW with a number of the best local players leaving and playing elsewhere. As such, I don't particularly believe that a recruiting strategy for UW Basketball tied to dominating the local recruiting base is a recipe for success. I think we've seen that proven out historically.
Unfortunately, I don't have the recipe for UW hoops because we have not really seen a long string of success in the program really ever despite massive resources and advantages comparatively speaking to others. I do think that it makes a lot of sense to look potentially internationally as a new recruiting market. I think it also makes sense for us to be very judicious to guys that are likely one and dones.
What I do know is that when Washington tries to act like it is UCLA or Arizona in recruiting it usually has blown up in our face. We need to establish our own identity and recruit towards that. It's a model that has worked out quite well for Gonzaga.
Let me try to be a little clearer with my points ... it's fair that I've been responding to different aspects and points and likely not solidified any real opinion in full so let me be clear
1) There's plenty of evidence to suggest that there are NBA caliber players that come out of Seattle and Washington St
2) UW has historically not done well keeping in-state players at UW
3) Many of the recent players coming out of the Seattle area and AAU scene over the last 10 years or so has been iffy IMO in terms of doing much of anything (I think this coincides with the FOH vs Seattle Rotary world)
Throughout the history of the NBA, there have been a total of 61 players that have either played in the NBA and/or ABA and of those 61, 29 of those started in the NBA in the last 20 years (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/birthplaces.cgi?country=US&state=WA). It's probably missing a few local kids that have been born outside of the area, but it's a decent list to start the discussion.
Sorting the list by the top 20 scorers (overall points), only 6 of the 20 played college hoops at UW (James Edwards, IT, Nate, BRoy, and Spencer/Steve Hawes).
When you look at the list, what you see is a bunch of dudes that left the area for college: Jamal Crawford (Michigan), Jason Terry (Arizona), Marvin Williams (UNC), Doug Christie (Pepperdine), Avery Bradley (Texas), Aaron Brooks (Oregon), and Zach LaVine (UCLA). This list isn't including guys off the top of my head that I know were Western Washington guys that left like Michael Dickerson and Luke Ridnour.
If we go more recently of guys that we missed on not previously mentioned you can add to the list guys like Kevin Porter (USC), Allonzo Trier (Arizona), Peyton Siva (Louisville), and Terrence Williams (Louisville) over the last 10 years
So my point on the Seattle/Washington recruiting base is that while I have no problem acknowledging that there's talent, there's really not a huge amount of evidence to suggest that local kids are looking to stay home. In fact, the evidence suggests more often than not that they are prepared to leave home.
And to this idea that Hop hasn't recruited locally is one that doesn't really resonate with me ... in last year's class he signed McDaniels (Federal Way), Battle (Marysville Pilchuck), and Tsohonis (Portland) ... so when you are getting 3 guys from essentially your NW footprint, that's telling me that you're recruiting locally.
Someone mentioned that the 2020 class is pretty much trash locally ... and it's showing in that we've got nothing. We went for more big time recruits and we've failed big time there. This is where not having a recruiting strategy that hits internationally, etc. becomes a major issue.
I'm not trying to doog here but I really don't know what people are expecting out of Hopkins ... it seems like a massive amount of Monday Morning QB'ing to me. This year has sucked ... no question. But nobody would have looked at the recruiting class for this year and been disappointed in terms of quality or attention locally. The question for me is how he pivots off of this year whether it be one and done's vs widening his net for years where the local base isn't worth a damn, etc. Does he focus on recruiting the best talent possible and trying to figure it out or does he focus more on culture and fits? Is targeting more 3 and 4 year players going forward?
There's a whole laundry list of items to look at in terms of the on court product. I think @RoadDawg55 is on to something in saying that I think one of Hop's big misses (and this is a consistent Syracuse issue) is that he leaned more to long and lanky athletes instead of guys that can shoot. The game has shifted to the ability to space the court and shoot being the most important skill in the game (followed closely on being able to penetrate and create shots for others). We all can bitch at scheme but ultimately at some point players have to play with effort and execute. I've seen way too many examples of guys making selfish plays and creating difficult situations for themselves to just sit there and not say that the players have some accountability for it.
As for the season, my explanation for what has gone wrong is as follows:
1) Quade Green being academically ineligible
The team was 11-4 with Green and is 1-10 since then. When you look at the numbers, it makes a ton of sense as to why as Quade had the highest offensive rating of anybody on the roster and was the only significant player that had a defensive rating over 100 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/washington/2020.html). It's fair to be critical of Quade for not only not handling his business, but also to question what oversight was in place to prevent this from happening. It's impossible not to see how important Green's absence is when 7 of the 10 losses since Quade has been ineligible have been by 6 points or less.
2) Lack of defense/effort = immaturity
Everybody wants to play offense ... it's a sign of any young and immature player at any level of play in any sport. They want the glory that comes with the highlight and getting points. Anybody that has played any amount of sports knows that games are one through details and effort. Anybody that has played hoops knows the importance of getting on the ground for loose balls. We don't do that ... we waist bend. It's like people are afraid to get hurt. But the defense is bad. The hustle back is bad. The defensive rating on this team is putrid. Stewart is at 92.9, McDaniels at 94.2, and Carter at 94.5. When your 3 best players aren't putting in a great work rate defensively, it's going to filter across the team.
3) Naz wasn't able to take the leap
One of the areas that was required for this team to take a leap forward this year was Naz taking a leap forward and getting into a leadership role as a Junior. Instead of taking the reigns and running, particularly after Green got suspended, he's pretty much turned into a guy that is a high end role player at best as every single metric for him is either the same or worst this year. His shooting % is down as his shot selection isn't great. He remains a low 60% FT shooter. His scoring per 40 minutes is at comparable levels even though he's in theory being given more opportunities. His rating on both ends of the floor have taken dramatic dips. Not taking a step up to at least an honorable conference level, he's basically just turned into a supporting piece and shifted the brunt of the burden on the shoulders of young players that aren't ready to handle it.
El oh El.
Finally a reward for slogging through this thread.
See 54 new posts in the "Hop sucks donkey balls" thread.
Hope all the activity means Hop's been fired.
Read thread.
Remember why I rarely come to the b-ball bored.
Look for bleach and a shot glass.
50+ new comments!!!!
Here I thought there would be some new take or information about Hop leaving or something, instead its Tommy trying to run Teq's ass and a "discussion" on the local talent UW doesnt recruit
Thread plays out as about the same as the basketball season did; decent start, issues but still some promise, absolute shit show collapse, Roadie trying to carry the thread like Stewart, more collapse, apathy
I just like to help doogs find their way back home to Doogman where they can really shine.
To put this in perspective, this squad would give its left nut for a Ryan Appleby right now.
Think about that. Ryan Fucking Appleby is a value-add to the shit show that Hop has cobbled together.
I mean, I love me some gritty whiteboy guards but when Apples is what you'd plug in right this second as an upgrade, that's just wrong.
Before CJ Wilcox he was the best 3 point shooter in school history, hell maybe the best considering he had fewer seasons at UW, I don’t care enough to check. I don’t think that’s saying a lot that he would be an upgrade on a team with only 1 actual shooter, who also happens to be a true freshman playing limited minutes. Apples was a valued piece on one of our best teams. I’d take an Appleby type every year if I could. Teams that can’t shoot suck. This team can’t shoot.
BRoy, Appleby, Burmeister, Brockman, Wolfinger, Wallace, Gasser - all local boys. Sweet 16.
Year before - BRoy, Simmons, Nate, Conroy, Jensen.....Sweet 16
But 'historically' the local talent sucks. Right?
You're really citing Burmeister, Wolfinger, Wallace, and Gasser as proof of local talent = Sweet 16?
Get the fuck out with that take ... that's terrible
CAREER point/rebound/assist totals for those JAGs at Washington
Burmeister: 178/67/44
Wolfinger: 144/56/8
Wallace: 239/207/35
Gasser: 193/124/38
Wolfinger was never on a Sweet 16 team ... I think you're confusing him with Zane Potter
Two sweet 16s. STFU
Only a scrub poster would cite scrubs as backing up his shitty ass points
So those two Sweet 16's didn't exist?
Broy didn't go to Garfield? Simmons? Conroy?
Those squads were built on local kids - fuck off if you can't live with that reality.
Fuck off any way.
A guy that plays zone in pickup and brags about it....scrub indeed. That's rich. Fucking delicious.
Mike Hopkins is being exposed as a career assistant coach who got lucky and rode LoRo's mature recruits to success especially in his 2nd season at the helm. Now that Romar's recruits are gone (except for Sam Timmins) Mike Hopkins is showing that he can't coach up his recruited young talent nor give them winning game plans nor helpful in game adjustments as he only knows one way to coach. A good coach will have players that will run through a wall for him. A bad coach will run into the wall and wonder why no one is following him.
The UW has a very bad coach that scapegoats his players in order to show Jen Cohen, UW boosters and the Fan Base that he is in control of the program even while it is spiraling out of control. The way that Mike Hopkins keeps on jerking Jaden around shows that he is unsure of what he is doing. He benches Jaden to start the game then sometimes starts him to begin the 2nd half which shows an uncertainty in his mental approach. On one hand he wants to show strong leadership but on the other hand his actions are that of a weak, uncertain in over his head leader. Mike Hopkins has no clothes.
Did you know that Mike Hopkins was a part of a Syracuse program that was sanctioned by the NCAA for loss of institutional control (Academic Misconduct, Improper Benefits, Failure To Enforce Drug Policy) from 2000-2012. 12 Years!!
Syracuse was fined more than 1 million dollars, lost 12 scholarships over 4 seasons, received 5 years probation, off-campus recruiters was trimmed from 4 to 2 starting June 1 2015 and ending May 31 2017, vacated 108 victories, Jim Boeheim was suspended 9 games in which Mike Hopkins coached the team and went 4-5 with a squad that eventually reached The Final Four that season.
Mike Hopkins was Jim Boeheim's right hand man during those 12 years but feigned ignorance to NCAA investigators when interviewed even though in his own words he was very involved with the players both on and off of the court. Is that the kind of person you would entrust to lead very young and impressionable men?
See 54 new posts in the "Hop sucks donkey balls" thread.
Hope all the activity means Hop's been fired.
Read thread.
Remember why I rarely come to the b-ball bored.
Look for bleach and a shot glass.
50+ new comments!!!!
Here I thought there would be some new take or information about Hop leaving or something, instead its Tommy trying to run Teq's ass and a "discussion" on the local talent UW doesnt recruit
Thread plays out as about the same as the basketball season did; decent start, issues but still some promise, absolute shit show collapse, Roadie trying to carry the thread like Stewart, more collapse, apathy
I just like to help doogs find their way back home to Doogman where they can really shine.
To put this in perspective, this squad would give its left nut for a Ryan Appleby right now.
Think about that. Ryan Fucking Appleby is a value-add to the shit show that Hop has cobbled together.
I mean, I love me some gritty whiteboy guards but when Apples is what you'd plug in right this second as an upgrade, that's just wrong.
Before CJ Wilcox he was the best 3 point shooter in school history, hell maybe the best considering he had fewer seasons at UW, I don’t care enough to check. I don’t think that’s saying a lot that he would be an upgrade on a team with only 1 actual shooter, who also happens to be a true freshman playing limited minutes. Apples was a valued piece on one of our best teams. I’d take an Appleby type every year if I could. Teams that can’t shoot suck. This team can’t shoot.
BRoy, Appleby, Burmeister, Brockman, Wolfinger, Wallace, Gasser - all local boys. Sweet 16.
Year before - BRoy, Simmons, Nate, Conroy, Jensen.....Sweet 16
But 'historically' the local talent sucks. Right?
You're really citing Burmeister, Wolfinger, Wallace, and Gasser as proof of local talent = Sweet 16?
Get the fuck out with that take ... that's terrible
CAREER point/rebound/assist totals for those JAGs at Washington
Burmeister: 178/67/44
Wolfinger: 144/56/8
Wallace: 239/207/35
Gasser: 193/124/38
Wolfinger was never on a Sweet 16 team ... I think you're confusing him with Zane Potter
Two sweet 16s. STFU
Only a scrub poster would cite scrubs as backing up his shitty ass points
So those two Sweet 16's didn't exist?
Broy didn't go to Garfield? Simmons? Conroy?
Those squads were built on local kids - fuck off if you can't live with that reality.
Fuck off any way.
A guy that plays zone in pickup and brags about it....scrub indeed. That's rich. Fucking delicious.
I'm not talking about BRoy and Nate and Will
I'm talking about your preposterous inclusion of the scrub bench mob as evidence
Getting to the Sweet 16 in hoops is like bragging about going to the Alamo Bowl ... and I'm called out for Coug talking points
I don't brag about playing zone in pickup hoops ... I laugh about it ... get that part straight.
Did you know that Mike Hopkins was a part of a Syracuse program that was sanctioned by the NCAA for loss of institutional control (Academic Misconduct, Improper Benefits, Failure To Enforce Drug Policy) from 2000-2012. 12 Years!!
Syracuse was fined more than 1 million dollars, lost 12 scholarships over 4 seasons, received 5 years probation, off-campus recruiters was trimmed from 4 to 2 starting June 1 2015 and ending May 31 2017, vacated 108 victories, Jim Boeheim was suspended 9 games in which Mike Hopkins coached the team and went 4-5 with a squad that eventually reached The Final Four that season.
Mike Hopkins was Jim Boeheim's right hand man during those 12 years but feigned ignorance to NCAA investigators when interviewed even though in his own words he was very involved with the players both on and off of the court. Is that the kind of person you would entrust to lead very young and impressionable men?
See 54 new posts in the "Hop sucks donkey balls" thread.
Hope all the activity means Hop's been fired.
Read thread.
Remember why I rarely come to the b-ball bored.
Look for bleach and a shot glass.
50+ new comments!!!!
Here I thought there would be some new take or information about Hop leaving or something, instead its Tommy trying to run Teq's ass and a "discussion" on the local talent UW doesnt recruit
Thread plays out as about the same as the basketball season did; decent start, issues but still some promise, absolute shit show collapse, Roadie trying to carry the thread like Stewart, more collapse, apathy
I just like to help doogs find their way back home to Doogman where they can really shine.
To put this in perspective, this squad would give its left nut for a Ryan Appleby right now.
Think about that. Ryan Fucking Appleby is a value-add to the shit show that Hop has cobbled together.
I mean, I love me some gritty whiteboy guards but when Apples is what you'd plug in right this second as an upgrade, that's just wrong.
Before CJ Wilcox he was the best 3 point shooter in school history, hell maybe the best considering he had fewer seasons at UW, I don’t care enough to check. I don’t think that’s saying a lot that he would be an upgrade on a team with only 1 actual shooter, who also happens to be a true freshman playing limited minutes. Apples was a valued piece on one of our best teams. I’d take an Appleby type every year if I could. Teams that can’t shoot suck. This team can’t shoot.
BRoy, Appleby, Burmeister, Brockman, Wolfinger, Wallace, Gasser - all local boys. Sweet 16.
Year before - BRoy, Simmons, Nate, Conroy, Jensen.....Sweet 16
But 'historically' the local talent sucks. Right?
You're really citing Burmeister, Wolfinger, Wallace, and Gasser as proof of local talent = Sweet 16?
Get the fuck out with that take ... that's terrible
CAREER point/rebound/assist totals for those JAGs at Washington
Burmeister: 178/67/44
Wolfinger: 144/56/8
Wallace: 239/207/35
Gasser: 193/124/38
Wolfinger was never on a Sweet 16 team ... I think you're confusing him with Zane Potter
Two sweet 16s. STFU
Only a scrub poster would cite scrubs as backing up his shitty ass points
So those two Sweet 16's didn't exist?
Broy didn't go to Garfield? Simmons? Conroy?
Those squads were built on local kids - fuck off if you can't live with that reality.
Fuck off any way.
A guy that plays zone in pickup and brags about it....scrub indeed. That's rich. Fucking delicious.
I'm not talking about BRoy and Nate and Will
I'm talking about your preposterous inclusion of the scrub bench mob as evidence
Getting to the Sweet 16 in hoops is like bragging about going to the Alamo Bowl ... and I'm called out for Coug talking points
I don't brag about playing zone in pickup hoops ... I laugh about it ... get that part straight.
You played zone in pickup. Nuff said. Don't try to be a revisionist.
Comments
edit: and pulling out the 'LOLZ JUST BUY THE CONTRACT OUT THEN IF YOU WANT HIM GONE' is from the DoogFS playbook, chapter 1, and you should have known that 20 years ago. How can you unironically pull that shit now dude
There is no excuse or explanation other than coaching and institutional incompetence.
I have to say this too: every time some elite basketball recruit out of Seattle chooses UW I am stunned. Fucking stunned. Because those kids could go anywhere else and get the best of both worlds: [truly] elite academis + elite, or at least competent, hoops. How does a kid choose Washington if he could play in the ACC for Duke or UNC. By all rights it should have to compete hard against Wake or Georgia Tech or Syracuse. Stanford & UCLA are no-brainers.
But somehow, they want to stay. And still ....
How do I know this?
It’s well publicized that the coaching salaries for football are down ... I seriously doubt it is all going to recruiting
We didn’t buy out either Gregory or Boner at fractions of what Hop requires
Football revenues are worrisome because of how shitty the home schedule is combined with what I’m sure is being anticipated as an increase in churn plus lower single game ticket sales ... the sizable increase in tickets YoY in the 15-20% range suggest to me that they are trying to break even in revenue
There’s a far bigger disaster than Hop sitting over on the women’s side of the hoops building and she’d be sitting on a buyout as well with 2 years left on her deal
So when I say to people are you prepared to buy Hop out, it’s not because I’m serving up stupid ass doog excuses or talking points. It’s because I’m looking at an Athletic Dept that isn’t flush with cash due to anything other than their own doing (i.e. thank you Larry Scott) ... without that kind of $$$ laying around to change course if/when you identify the mistake, you are stuck in a really difficult spot.
There was an article from I believe The Athletic in the last month that said one of the big issues with the $$$ divide between the SEC/Big 10 and everybody else is the amount of pressure for the others to get hires right ... being able to get out from under those contracts if they aren’t the right hires is crippling to ADs and/or boosters
BTW, going after Hop should require equal venom at Cohen as her hiring track record, particularly with basketball, is questionable at best and putrid at worst.
Get the fuck out with that take ... that's terrible
CAREER point/rebound/assist totals for those JAGs at Washington
Burmeister: 178/67/44
Wolfinger: 144/56/8
Wallace: 239/207/35
Gasser: 193/124/38
Wolfinger was never on a Sweet 16 team ... I think you're confusing him with Zane Potter
Let me try to be a little clearer with my points ... it's fair that I've been responding to different aspects and points and likely not solidified any real opinion in full so let me be clear
1) There's plenty of evidence to suggest that there are NBA caliber players that come out of Seattle and Washington St
2) UW has historically not done well keeping in-state players at UW
3) Many of the recent players coming out of the Seattle area and AAU scene over the last 10 years or so has been iffy IMO in terms of doing much of anything (I think this coincides with the FOH vs Seattle Rotary world)
Throughout the history of the NBA, there have been a total of 61 players that have either played in the NBA and/or ABA and of those 61, 29 of those started in the NBA in the last 20 years (https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/birthplaces.cgi?country=US&state=WA). It's probably missing a few local kids that have been born outside of the area, but it's a decent list to start the discussion.
Sorting the list by the top 20 scorers (overall points), only 6 of the 20 played college hoops at UW (James Edwards, IT, Nate, BRoy, and Spencer/Steve Hawes).
When you look at the list, what you see is a bunch of dudes that left the area for college: Jamal Crawford (Michigan), Jason Terry (Arizona), Marvin Williams (UNC), Doug Christie (Pepperdine), Avery Bradley (Texas), Aaron Brooks (Oregon), and Zach LaVine (UCLA). This list isn't including guys off the top of my head that I know were Western Washington guys that left like Michael Dickerson and Luke Ridnour.
If you look at the list of all-time UW recruits per 247 (https://247sports.com/college/washington/Sport/Basketball/AllTimeRecruits/), it's a pretty telling story of some that worked out really well for us and a bunch of others that were some form of a bust.
If we go more recently of guys that we missed on not previously mentioned you can add to the list guys like Kevin Porter (USC), Allonzo Trier (Arizona), Peyton Siva (Louisville), and Terrence Williams (Louisville) over the last 10 years
So my point on the Seattle/Washington recruiting base is that while I have no problem acknowledging that there's talent, there's really not a huge amount of evidence to suggest that local kids are looking to stay home. In fact, the evidence suggests more often than not that they are prepared to leave home.
And to this idea that Hop hasn't recruited locally is one that doesn't really resonate with me ... in last year's class he signed McDaniels (Federal Way), Battle (Marysville Pilchuck), and Tsohonis (Portland) ... so when you are getting 3 guys from essentially your NW footprint, that's telling me that you're recruiting locally.
Someone mentioned that the 2020 class is pretty much trash locally ... and it's showing in that we've got nothing. We went for more big time recruits and we've failed big time there. This is where not having a recruiting strategy that hits internationally, etc. becomes a major issue.
I'm not trying to doog here but I really don't know what people are expecting out of Hopkins ... it seems like a massive amount of Monday Morning QB'ing to me. This year has sucked ... no question. But nobody would have looked at the recruiting class for this year and been disappointed in terms of quality or attention locally. The question for me is how he pivots off of this year whether it be one and done's vs widening his net for years where the local base isn't worth a damn, etc. Does he focus on recruiting the best talent possible and trying to figure it out or does he focus more on culture and fits? Is targeting more 3 and 4 year players going forward?
There's a whole laundry list of items to look at in terms of the on court product. I think @RoadDawg55 is on to something in saying that I think one of Hop's big misses (and this is a consistent Syracuse issue) is that he leaned more to long and lanky athletes instead of guys that can shoot. The game has shifted to the ability to space the court and shoot being the most important skill in the game (followed closely on being able to penetrate and create shots for others). We all can bitch at scheme but ultimately at some point players have to play with effort and execute. I've seen way too many examples of guys making selfish plays and creating difficult situations for themselves to just sit there and not say that the players have some accountability for it.
As for the season, my explanation for what has gone wrong is as follows:
1) Quade Green being academically ineligible
The team was 11-4 with Green and is 1-10 since then. When you look at the numbers, it makes a ton of sense as to why as Quade had the highest offensive rating of anybody on the roster and was the only significant player that had a defensive rating over 100 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/washington/2020.html). It's fair to be critical of Quade for not only not handling his business, but also to question what oversight was in place to prevent this from happening. It's impossible not to see how important Green's absence is when 7 of the 10 losses since Quade has been ineligible have been by 6 points or less.
2) Lack of defense/effort = immaturity
Everybody wants to play offense ... it's a sign of any young and immature player at any level of play in any sport. They want the glory that comes with the highlight and getting points. Anybody that has played any amount of sports knows that games are one through details and effort. Anybody that has played hoops knows the importance of getting on the ground for loose balls. We don't do that ... we waist bend. It's like people are afraid to get hurt. But the defense is bad. The hustle back is bad. The defensive rating on this team is putrid. Stewart is at 92.9, McDaniels at 94.2, and Carter at 94.5. When your 3 best players aren't putting in a great work rate defensively, it's going to filter across the team.
3) Naz wasn't able to take the leap
One of the areas that was required for this team to take a leap forward this year was Naz taking a leap forward and getting into a leadership role as a Junior. Instead of taking the reigns and running, particularly after Green got suspended, he's pretty much turned into a guy that is a high end role player at best as every single metric for him is either the same or worst this year. His shooting % is down as his shot selection isn't great. He remains a low 60% FT shooter. His scoring per 40 minutes is at comparable levels even though he's in theory being given more opportunities. His rating on both ends of the floor have taken dramatic dips. Not taking a step up to at least an honorable conference level, he's basically just turned into a supporting piece and shifted the brunt of the burden on the shoulders of young players that aren't ready to handle it.
Only problem is that since Quade got suspended and UW has gone 1-10 since then, 7 of their 10 losses have been by 6 or less points. The only game where they were legitimately blown out was at Colorado.
The day that this site actually looks at things objectively instead of wanting to scorch the earth on everything will be the day that Hell Freezes Over and the USA turns into the United Socialists of America
No I never cared for your takes personally, but you definitely had some followers here at one point, and I usually at least understood and respected what you tried to say.
Have you lost your grasp of reality or has not having your butt buddies around exposed you as the boob you are?
I just don't fall into the category of sucking off Seattle area hoops as it pertains to UW. By and large, the local area has not shown a strong loyalty towards UW with a number of the best local players leaving and playing elsewhere. As such, I don't particularly believe that a recruiting strategy for UW Basketball tied to dominating the local recruiting base is a recipe for success. I think we've seen that proven out historically.
Unfortunately, I don't have the recipe for UW hoops because we have not really seen a long string of success in the program really ever despite massive resources and advantages comparatively speaking to others. I do think that it makes a lot of sense to look potentially internationally as a new recruiting market. I think it also makes sense for us to be very judicious to guys that are likely one and dones.
What I do know is that when Washington tries to act like it is UCLA or Arizona in recruiting it usually has blown up in our face. We need to establish our own identity and recruit towards that. It's a model that has worked out quite well for Gonzaga.
Finally a reward for slogging through this thread.
Broy didn't go to Garfield? Simmons? Conroy?
Those squads were built on local kids - fuck off if you can't live with that reality.
Fuck off any way.
A guy that plays zone in pickup and brags about it....scrub indeed. That's rich. Fucking delicious.
The UW has a very bad coach that scapegoats his players in order to show Jen Cohen, UW boosters and the Fan Base that he is in control of the program even while it is spiraling out of control. The way that Mike Hopkins keeps on jerking Jaden around shows that he is unsure of what he is doing. He benches Jaden to start the game then sometimes starts him to begin the 2nd half which shows an uncertainty in his mental approach. On one hand he wants to show strong leadership but on the other hand his actions are that of a weak, uncertain in over his head leader. Mike Hopkins has no clothes.
#BenchMikeHopkins #MikeHopkinsIsHustlingBackwards #ScapegoatingJaden #PutHameirBackInTheGame
Syracuse was fined more than 1 million dollars, lost 12 scholarships over 4 seasons, received 5 years probation, off-campus recruiters was trimmed from 4 to 2 starting June 1 2015 and ending May 31 2017, vacated 108 victories, Jim Boeheim was suspended 9 games in which Mike Hopkins coached the team and went 4-5 with a squad that eventually reached The Final Four that season.
Mike Hopkins was Jim Boeheim's right hand man during those 12 years but feigned ignorance to NCAA investigators when interviewed even though in his own words he was very involved with the players both on and off of the court. Is that the kind of person you would entrust to lead very young and impressionable men?
#SyracuseScandal #2000-2012 #NCAASanctions #JenCohenHiredACoachFromADirtyProgramAndGaveHimAnExtension
I'm talking about your preposterous inclusion of the scrub bench mob as evidence
Getting to the Sweet 16 in hoops is like bragging about going to the Alamo Bowl ... and I'm called out for Coug talking points
I don't brag about playing zone in pickup hoops ... I laugh about it ... get that part straight.
That's a bitch move.