I love conversations like this actually hurts the black race instead of helping them. You are crippling them by thinking they are so incompetent and so incapable of getting a simple ID.
So incompetent they can't spend 58 cents for a stamped envelope to mail out for the election.
If you purchase something over $50 and use your credit card you gotta show ID, when you drive you gotta show ID, when you enter a bar or a casino gotta have ID on you.
Yet when it comes to something so important like voting you don't need any ID at all? I don't buy that all.
If you think that was Race playing chess then you're still playing checkers. Honest and thoughtful responses are fucking worthless.
Collegedoog- I thought you did a really nice job in these threads. I agree with a lot of what you've said. I thought you let these guys get away with a little to much but that's probably because you were trying to have a real conversation.
Of course you did....... Put away the checker board.
Lay out for us why registering with a birth certificate is
I love conversations like this actually hurts the black race instead of helping them. You are crippling them by thinking they are so incompetent and so incapable of getting a simple ID.
So incompetent they can't spend 58 cents for a stamped envelope to mail out for the election.
If you purchase something over $50 and use your credit card you gotta show ID, when you drive you gotta show ID, when you enter a bar or a casino gotta have ID on you.
Yet when it comes to something so important like voting you don't need any ID at all? I don't buy that all.
And then the argument falls apart.
Brutha can find an ID to score a 40 of malt liquor but can't come up with one to elect the leader of the free world? Fuck that.
I love conversations like this actually hurts the black race instead of helping them. You are crippling them by thinking they are so incompetent and so incapable of getting a simple ID.
So incompetent they can't spend 58 cents for a stamped envelope to mail out for the election.
If you purchase something over $50 and use your credit card you gotta show ID, when you drive you gotta show ID, when you enter a bar or a casino gotta have ID on you.
Yet when it comes to something so important like voting you don't need any ID at all? I don't buy that all.
An obscure case in Florida or a microcosm of a greater problem? The media was on to it long before Obama commented on it. There were marches before before he said anything.
Voter ID laws are unnecessary. Voting is a civil liberty, ID requirements diminish that. If someone wants to vote the requirement should be citizenship, nothing beyond that. You're lying to yourself if you truly don't see the intention of these laws.
Nice justification of racial profiling.
Another dishonest post about race in America, and a dishonest representation of my arguments in this thread.
2) To make sure that they are who they say they are and only vote once. Because you see both political parties have been guilty of enticing votes of the poor with Cash or a pack of cigarettes. And the motivation for someone without a pot to piss in to vote at 9 different polls on election day can be strong.
Please provide all the cases of in person voter fraud. Thanks in advance.
It's sad that we don't think blacks are on capable of getting an ID.
voter fraud is rare because the system is working and keeping fraudulent ballots out. People have gone to prison for it though.
Should black people be able to buy a gun without an ID? That's a right. Seems racist to make them provide an ID to express a constitutional right.
You can save your blame flipping bullshit for Collegedoog. More blacks, by percentage, don't have ids. You say getting an id is all about being capable. Therefore you think blacks are less capable of getting ids. This is why real conversation with you guys is worthless.
Voter fraud is rare because the system is working therefore we need to add new laws to a system that's working. Sounds a lot like big government to me.
No one should be able to buy a gun. It's not a right. HTH.
It's just as much as a right as voting. Check the facts. The fact you pick and choose what you agree with is telling.
I don't think blacks are less capable of getting an id. Only racists do an use that as an excuse.
It's not about being capable. It's about the statistical fact that blacks are less likely to have identification than whites. It's about the motivation to create a law that would disproportionately affect blacks to solve a problem that does not exist. Why do we need this law? If anyone is capable of getting an id then why do we need to make them do that? What's the point? There is no voter fraud.
An obscure case in Florida or a microcosm of a greater problem? The media was on to it long before Obama commented on it. There were marches before before he said anything.
Voter ID laws are unnecessary. Voting is a civil liberty, ID requirements diminish that. If someone wants to vote the requirement should be citizenship, nothing beyond that. You're lying to yourself if you truly don't see the intention of these laws.
Nice justification of racial profiling.
Another dishonest post about race in America, and a dishonest representation of my arguments in this thread.
2) To make sure that they are who they say they are and only vote once. Because you see both political parties have been guilty of enticing votes of the poor with Cash or a pack of cigarettes. And the motivation for someone without a pot to piss in to vote at 9 different polls on election day can be strong.
Please provide all the cases of in person voter fraud. Thanks in advance.
It's sad that we don't think blacks are on capable of getting an ID.
voter fraud is rare because the system is working and keeping fraudulent ballots out. People have gone to prison for it though.
Should black people be able to buy a gun without an ID? That's a right. Seems racist to make them provide an ID to express a constitutional right.
You can save your blame flipping bullshit for Collegedoog. More blacks, by percentage, don't have ids. You say getting an id is all about being capable. Therefore you think blacks are less capable of getting ids. This is why real conversation with you guys is worthless.
Voter fraud is rare because the system is working therefore we need to add new laws to a system that's working. Sounds a lot like big government to me.
No one should be able to buy a gun. It's not a right. HTH.
It's just as much as a right as voting. Check the facts. The fact you pick and choose what you agree with is telling.
I don't think blacks are less capable of getting an id. Only racists do an use that as an excuse.
It's not about being capable. It's about the statistical fact that blacks are less likely to have identification than whites. It's about the motivation to create a law that would disproportionately affect blacks to solve a problem that does not exist. Why do we need this law? If anyone is capable of getting an id then why do we need to make them do that? What's the point? There is no voter fraud.
We covered this. You need ID to register. And to buy booze rent a car use a credit card fly and a bunch of other shit. Someone that doesn't have ID to do all that isn't going to vote. The point is there is fraud and you want to keep it easy to defraud
I'm for personal responsibility except when I'm against it.
Either way, it's interesting to see the concept selectively applied to frame an argument.
You shouldn't need an ID to exercise you're right to buy a gun. Its seems like you shouldn't have pay what is in affect a tax in order to exercise a constitutional right. Pretty unfair that someone has to procure an ID to participate in the constitution.
I'm for personal responsibility except when I'm against it.
Either way, it's interesting to see the concept selectively applied to frame an argument.
You shouldn't need an ID to exercise you're right to buy a gun. Its seems like you shouldn't have pay what is in affect a tax in order to exercise a constitutional right. Pretty unfair that someone has to procure an ID to participate in the constitution.
You're implying there's any respect for the Constitution, which for the most part, there isn't. Many are too stupid to realize that the document and things like the Federalist Papers were written with people in mind who are now overreaching in terms of their powers.
I went to a bar last night because a buddy came in to town for the holidays. I ordered one of the coldest beers in town and hte bartender asked me if he could see my ID. I was outraged and tore into him asking him if he knew the difference between a civil liberty and a civil right.
So @RaceBannon, you wanted me to do the critical thinking?
Follow my logic for voter fraud.
Who is less likely to have a photo ID? Minorities and the poor. What group then, do these laws disproportionately effect? Minorities and the poor. Who is more likely to vote for democrats based on recent election results? Minorities and the poor.
Who is passing these laws? Republican legislatures in closely contested states: Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Virginia. These laws are often accompanied by other voting restrictions such as shortening weekend polling, closing DMVs in cities, narrowly defining what type of photo ID is acceptable.
Here are a couple examples I dug up, copied and pasted:
"I met Sam Bulmer (pictured above) in Milwaukee at VETS Place Central, a shelter which provides transitional housing to homeless veterans. Sam spent 13 of his 63 years in the U.S. Air Force, serving some of that time with the Air Force Training Command. In Iceland, he served as an instructor during preparations for the Iran hostage crisis mission. Sam has no accepted photo ID card for voting in Wisconsin, but he has his VA ID card hanging around his neck. And he can't get a state ID card for free? Actually, no. The Division of Motor Vehicles won't believe Sam is a U.S. citizen until he shows them a certified copy of his birth certificate from Kansas, a document he can't obtain because Kansas wants him to show ID to get it. Sam isn't living off the grid or on the margins — he's worked for General Electric as a trainer on nuclear power plant control room simulation and is currently interviewing for jobs."
"The impact of ID requirements is even greater for the elderly, students, people with disabilities, low-income individuals, and people of color. Thirty-six percent of Georgians over 75 do not have a driver’s license. Fewer than 3 percent of Wisconsin students have driver’s licenses listing their current address. The same study found that African Americans have driver’s licenses at half the rate of whites, and the disparity increases among younger voters; only 22% of black men aged 18-24 had a valid driver’s license. Not only are minority voters less likely to possess photo ID, but they are also more likely than white voters to be selectively asked for ID at the polls. For example, in New York City, which has no ID requirement, a study showed that poll workers illegally asked one in six Asian Americans for ID at the polls, while white voters were permitted to vote without showing ID."
So in the face of all this damning evidence, what are the actual benefits of a voter ID law? Limiting in person fraud? Ok. But in person fraud is nearly non-existent and not significant enough to have any real impact. The number of people effected by voter ID laws greatly outnumber the number of people who would now not be able to commit voter fraud. It may just be enough to tip the margin in favor of Republicans.
So, can you call it like it is? These voter ID laws are calculated. The Republican party admitted to having a demographics problem. But instead of changing their message they're trying to suppress the demographics that likely won't vote for them.
Don't plead ignorance, the cynical intentions aren't hard to see. Don't give me a loaded question like: "so you don't think blacks are capable of getting a photo ID? You must be the racist." Don't give false equivalencies with buying alcohol, flying; it grossly misrepresents the actual problem.
Lastly, are these photo ID requirements not a big government intrusion? Frankly, I think these laws are an affront to any freedom loving American.
And DamoneFS by associating getting an ID with being capable you are the one being racist.
Getting a drivers license isn't about capability, it's about necessity. Ride a bus recently? Minorities and the poor utilize public transportation much more frequently than whites.
If I'm playing checkers you must be playing chutes and ladders.
Comments
So incompetent they can't spend 58 cents for a stamped envelope to mail out for the election.
If you purchase something over $50 and use your credit card you gotta show ID, when you drive you gotta show ID, when you enter a bar or a casino gotta have ID on you.
Yet when it comes to something so important like voting you don't need any ID at all? I don't buy that all.
Should there be a de facto fee on voting, i.e. poll tax: no
Either way, it's interesting to see the concept selectively applied to frame an argument.
unfaircampaign.org/about-us/f-a-q/
Follow my logic for voter fraud.
Who is less likely to have a photo ID? Minorities and the poor. What group then, do these laws disproportionately effect? Minorities and the poor. Who is more likely to vote for democrats based on recent election results? Minorities and the poor.
Who is passing these laws? Republican legislatures in closely contested states: Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Virginia. These laws are often accompanied by other voting restrictions such as shortening weekend polling, closing DMVs in cities, narrowly defining what type of photo ID is acceptable.
Here are a couple examples I dug up, copied and pasted:
"I met Sam Bulmer (pictured above) in Milwaukee at VETS Place Central, a shelter which provides transitional housing to homeless veterans. Sam spent 13 of his 63 years in the U.S. Air Force, serving some of that time with the Air Force Training Command. In Iceland, he served as an instructor during preparations for the Iran hostage crisis mission. Sam has no accepted photo ID card for voting in Wisconsin, but he has his VA ID card hanging around his neck. And he can't get a state ID card for free? Actually, no. The Division of Motor Vehicles won't believe Sam is a U.S. citizen until he shows them a certified copy of his birth certificate from Kansas, a document he can't obtain because Kansas wants him to show ID to get it. Sam isn't living off the grid or on the margins — he's worked for General Electric as a trainer on nuclear power plant control room simulation and is currently interviewing for jobs."
"The impact of ID requirements is even greater for the elderly, students, people with disabilities, low-income individuals, and people of color. Thirty-six percent of Georgians over 75 do not have a driver’s license. Fewer than 3 percent of Wisconsin students have driver’s licenses listing their current address. The same study found that African Americans have driver’s licenses at half the rate of whites, and the disparity increases among younger voters; only 22% of black men aged 18-24 had a valid driver’s license. Not only are minority voters less likely to possess photo ID, but they are also more likely than white voters to be selectively asked for ID at the polls. For example, in New York City, which has no ID requirement, a study showed that poll workers illegally asked one in six Asian Americans for ID at the polls, while white voters were permitted to vote without showing ID."
So in the face of all this damning evidence, what are the actual benefits of a voter ID law? Limiting in person fraud? Ok. But in person fraud is nearly non-existent and not significant enough to have any real impact. The number of people effected by voter ID laws greatly outnumber the number of people who would now not be able to commit voter fraud. It may just be enough to tip the margin in favor of Republicans.
So, can you call it like it is? These voter ID laws are calculated. The Republican party admitted to having a demographics problem. But instead of changing their message they're trying to suppress the demographics that likely won't vote for them.
Don't plead ignorance, the cynical intentions aren't hard to see. Don't give me a loaded question like: "so you don't think blacks are capable of getting a photo ID? You must be the racist." Don't give false equivalencies with buying alcohol, flying; it grossly misrepresents the actual problem.
Lastly, are these photo ID requirements not a big government intrusion? Frankly, I think these laws are an affront to any freedom loving American.
I'm looking forward to your responses.
I'm not here to play checkers.
But yeah, checkers is what you're playing.
And DamoneFS by associating getting an ID with being capable you are the one being racist.
Getting a drivers license isn't about capability, it's about necessity. Ride a bus recently? Minorities and the poor utilize public transportation much more frequently than whites.
If I'm playing checkers you must be playing chutes and ladders.
Christ.