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Texas Recruiting - WAM Appetizer

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    FremontTrollFremontTroll Member Posts: 4,707
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    whuggy said:

    Tequilla said:

    The question always comes down to what the cost is

    The argument against recruiting Texas is that we can be doing better in California. But who in California are we really missing on?

    I get all the arguments but the reality is that culture and fit matter a lot to this staff. Those that receive what we are about will gravitate towards us. Those that don’t wont.

    Ultimately the key in Texas is gaining traction. Getting a player like Levi is huge. As the Texas players on our roster produce and get to the league our reputation will only further grow there.

    Until there’s tangible evidence that our efforts in Texas are wasted, then it’s a worthwhile INVESTMENT for the program to make if they deem that they have the resources to devote to it

    Yeah I don't get the argument that resources are wasted by recruiting Texas. Take LSU. People should say that they are wasting resources by recruiting California and Utah. Two non-traditional areas for them. But that has resulted in them getting Elias Ricks and Siaki Ika the last two cycles. Yes Orgeron has connections in Cali but Petersen has the same connections in Texas as he has been recruiting there forever. Also if UW continues to be nationally relevant that exposure does some of the initial footwork needed to get the attention of Texas recruits. People make it sound like it's some kind of big time allocation devoted to Texas when it's just not true. If it's 5% of your recruiting allocation time and you pull 1 out of 20 kids in a recruiting cycle that sounds okay to me. And as you get better the quality of that 1 recruit also gets better.
    Except those are elite talents of which there are few in the nation. UW isn't going after kids like that in Texas. They are recruiting mostly "diamonds in the rough" or guys who are overlooked etc.
    Also everyone wants to play in the SEC right now and LSU is one of the premier SEC programs.

    Like I was saying- if UW wins a playoff game this year and Eason is drafted top 5- then we may be able to get to that echelon where we can beat Texas and Oklahoma for some guys in their own region.

    But if that happens its due to our emergence as a national program it has almost nothing to do with all the time we've spent there the last 6 years.
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    ntxduckntxduck Member Posts: 5,513
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    edited August 2019
    UW (or any Pac 12 team except USC when they are not shit) isn't going to be beat Texas, Aggie, or OU for top Texas kids. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth recruiting. There is so much talent in Texas that there are a ton of kids who fly under the radar. UW has excellent coaches--the best in the conference (IMHO) who can identify that type of talent. That is why they are in Texas.

    The 2 best Texas kids chip pulled out of Oregon (LMJ and Huff) had offers from Minnesota/TCU (LMJ) and Buffalo/Colorado (Huff).
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    BallzBallz Member Posts: 4,735
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    There isn't a single recruit out West that UW wanted and would have gotten had they not "wasted time" recruiting Texas. Not a single one. They clearly have enough time to recruit both the West region and Texas. So who gives a fuck? We would not have had a better chance at getting Justin Flowe or Elias Ricks or whoever the fuck you think we could have gotten had we not recruited Texas at all this class. Some West coast kids are just not coming here no matter what. Even when UW wins a national title, there will still be a few elite West coast kids that don't want to come here.

    If our hidden gems are coming from WA, CA, and TX that's fine with me. If you can create a bigger pool of hidden gems and select the top hidden gems from that larger pool of recruits, then the hidden gems you're getting have a better chance of panning out. For instance, there was no hidden gem offensive lineman on the West coast better than Victor Curne in his class. There is no hidden gem RB out West this class better than Jay'Veon Sunday. Those guys are upgrades over West coast guys we would have had to take had we not recruited Texas.

    Plus, Texas kids just know how to play the game because the high school coaching down there is really good. We haven't had any Texas busts on this roster. They have played major roles already (Fuller and Onwuzurike) or will very soon (Curne the #2 RG and Rice the #2 Buck).
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    FremontTrollFremontTroll Member Posts: 4,707
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    There isn't a single recruit out West that UW wanted and would have gotten had they not "wasted time" recruiting Texas. Not a single one. They clearly have enough time to recruit both the West region and Texas. So who gives a fuck? We would not have had a better chance at getting Justin Flowe or Elias Ricks or whoever the fuck you think we could have gotten had we not recruited Texas at all this class. Some West coast kids are just not coming here no matter what. Even when UW wins a national title, there will still be a few elite West coast kids that don't want to come here.

    If our hidden gems are coming from WA, CA, and TX that's fine with me. If you can create a bigger pool of hidden gems and select the top hidden gems from that larger pool of recruits, then the hidden gems you're getting have a better chance of panning out. For instance, there was no hidden gem offensive lineman on the West coast better than Victor Curne in his class. There is no hidden gem RB out West this class better than Jay'Veon Sunday. Those guys are upgrades over West coast guys we would have had to take had we not recruited Texas.

    Plus, Texas kids just know how to play the game because the high school coaching down there is really good. We haven't had any Texas busts on this roster. They have played major roles already (Fuller and Onwuzurike) or will very soon (Curne the #2 RG and Rice the #2 Buck).

    LOL sure in Ballz' fantasy reality where we never miss on kids then of course you can be 100% certain we wouldn't have better results in a different hypothetical universe.

    What might be even more unbelievable is you are using a sample size of 6 players, 2 of which have actually played, to say that Texas kids "just know how to play the game" so they won't be busts.
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    UW_Doog_BotUW_Doog_Bot Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 14,203
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    There isn't a single recruit out West that UW wanted and would have gotten had they not "wasted time" recruiting Texas. Not a single one. They clearly have enough time to recruit both the West region and Texas. So who gives a fuck? We would not have had a better chance at getting Justin Flowe or Elias Ricks or whoever the fuck you think we could have gotten had we not recruited Texas at all this class. Some West coast kids are just not coming here no matter what. Even when UW wins a national title, there will still be a few elite West coast kids that don't want to come here.

    If our hidden gems are coming from WA, CA, and TX that's fine with me. If you can create a bigger pool of hidden gems and select the top hidden gems from that larger pool of recruits, then the hidden gems you're getting have a better chance of panning out. For instance, there was no hidden gem offensive lineman on the West coast better than Victor Curne in his class. There is no hidden gem RB out West this class better than Jay'Veon Sunday. Those guys are upgrades over West coast guys we would have had to take had we not recruited Texas.

    Plus, Texas kids just know how to play the game because the high school coaching down there is really good. We haven't had any Texas busts on this roster. They have played major roles already (Fuller and Onwuzurike) or will very soon (Curne the #2 RG and Rice the #2 Buck).

    LOL sure in Ballz' fantasy reality where we never miss on kids then of course you can be 100% certain we wouldn't have better results in a different hypothetical universe.

    What might be even more unbelievable is you are using a sample size of 6 players, 2 of which have actually played, to say that Texas kids "just know how to play the game" so they won't be busts.
    Those are six completely irreplaceable "hidden gems" though. There's not a single recruit in any of the West that could have served as a replacement for any of them.
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    dncdnc Member Posts: 56,614
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    We are going to get Banks lol.

    Hook. Line. Sinker.
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    HouhuskyHouhusky Member Posts: 5,537
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    edited August 2019
    Glad you could bring the AIDS to what is a decent thread.

    There isn't a single recruit out West that UW wanted and would have gotten had they not "wasted time" recruiting Texas. Not a single one. They clearly have enough time to recruit both the West region and Texas.

    Every single recruit out West that UW wanted and missed on was because they are "making an investment" recruiting Texas. Every single one. They clearly do not have enough time to recruit both the West region and Texas.... Damn its fun to make both wrong, overly definitive, and impossible to prove/disprove statements... Now I get it.

    If our hidden gems are coming from WA, CA, and TX that's fine with me. If you can create a bigger pool of hidden gems and select the top hidden gems from that larger pool of recruits, then the hidden gems you're getting have a better chance of panning out. For instance, there was no hidden gem offensive lineman on the West coast better than Victor Curne in his class. There is no hidden gem RB out West this class better than Jay'Veon Sunday. Those guys are upgrades over West coast guys we would have had to take had we not recruited Texas.

    "hidden gems" is this NCAA 14 or something?

    Filling out an opening or two in the bottom of the class with high ceiling/low cost recruit is fine. Its extremely difficult in a state like Texas because you either have to spend a lot of resources finding that overlooked "gem" that every other schools in the country somehow missed (because everyone looks at Texas) OR you have to recruit directly against a school with a massive recruiting advantage.
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    whuggywhuggy Member Posts: 2,088
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    edited August 2019
    I can recall pulling players out of fucking Florida which is way more out of our footprint than Texas. Rich Alexis, John Andersen and the very highly recruited receiver whose name escapes me were all far less likely to come north than a Texas kid. And they were all very good contributors to the team. If you never make the effort you never get the results. No one is saying spend a huge chunk of time in Texas or anywhere else outside the footprint. 5% of your time for 5% of your class seems very reasonable to me. I'd be thrilled with a Victor Curne, Levi level talent every year. Cooper McDonald not as much.
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    whuggywhuggy Member Posts: 2,088
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    ntxduck said:

    UW (or any Pac 12 team except USC when they are not shit) isn't going to be beat Texas, Aggie, or OU for top Texas kids. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth recruiting. There is so much talent in Texas that there are a ton of kids who fly under the radar. UW has excellent coaches--the best in the conference (IMHO) who can identify that type of talent. That is why they are in Texas.

    The 2 best Texas kids chip pulled out of Oregon (LMJ and Huff) had offers from Minnesota/TCU (LMJ) and Buffalo/Colorado (Huff).

    Bingo.
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    FremontTrollFremontTroll Member Posts: 4,707
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    whuggy said:

    I can recall pulling players out of fucking Florida which is way more out of our footprint than Texas. Rich Alexis, John Andersen and the very highly recruited receiver whose name escapes me were all far less likely to come north than a Texas kid. And they were all very good contributors to the team. If you never make the effort you never get the results. No one is saying spend a huge chunk of time in Texas or anywhere else outside the footprint. 5% of your time for 5% of your class seems very reasonable to me. I'd be thrilled with a Victor Curne, Levi level talent every year. Cooper McDonald not as much.

    Sure, but that is not the case. The problem is they have to spend a hugely disproportionate amount of time in Texas because their returns are much lower there.

    This will change over time but right now 12/70 2020 offers are to Texas/Oklahoma kids and 12/32 2021 offers.

    Beyond the time invested in scouting these kids and developing relationships with them look at the time spent on flights to and from Texas. I don't have stats on that but back in the spring when husky football twitter was doing there where are the coaches going this week thing there were always multiple coaches going to Texas.
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    whuggywhuggy Member Posts: 2,088
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    whuggy said:

    I can recall pulling players out of fucking Florida which is way more out of our footprint than Texas. Rich Alexis, John Andersen and the very highly recruited receiver whose name escapes me were all far less likely to come north than a Texas kid. And they were all very good contributors to the team. If you never make the effort you never get the results. No one is saying spend a huge chunk of time in Texas or anywhere else outside the footprint. 5% of your time for 5% of your class seems very reasonable to me. I'd be thrilled with a Victor Curne, Levi level talent every year. Cooper McDonald not as much.

    Sure, but that is not the case. The problem is they have to spend a hugely disproportionate amount of time in Texas because their returns are much lower there.

    This will change over time but right now 12/70 2020 offers are to Texas/Oklahoma kids and 12/32 2021 offers.

    Beyond the time invested in scouting these kids and developing relationships with them look at the time spent on flights to and from Texas. I don't have stats on that but back in the spring when husky football twitter was doing there where are the coaches going this week thing there were always multiple coaches going to Texas.
    Well I don't know how else to explain it other than the staff feels the time spent there is worth the payoff. I assume Petersen who is a pretty analytical nuts and bolts type would recognize the risk and reward ratio to Texas recruiting. I really would like someone to definitely prove to me which elite California kids we missed on this year due to not spending enough time in Cali. I think it's way more a function of the coach recruiting them that caused the disinterest rather than lack of face time.
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    whuggywhuggy Member Posts: 2,088
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    And let's not bury the headline here. We all know that close to half the staff are below average recruiters. Four of our coaches could have been living in Justin Flowe's house for the last year and he still wouldn't come here. This is just as much or more an argument for quality recruiters over quantity of time spent.
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    dncdnc Member Posts: 56,614
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    whuggy said:

    whuggy said:

    I can recall pulling players out of fucking Florida which is way more out of our footprint than Texas. Rich Alexis, John Andersen and the very highly recruited receiver whose name escapes me were all far less likely to come north than a Texas kid. And they were all very good contributors to the team. If you never make the effort you never get the results. No one is saying spend a huge chunk of time in Texas or anywhere else outside the footprint. 5% of your time for 5% of your class seems very reasonable to me. I'd be thrilled with a Victor Curne, Levi level talent every year. Cooper McDonald not as much.

    Sure, but that is not the case. The problem is they have to spend a hugely disproportionate amount of time in Texas because their returns are much lower there.

    This will change over time but right now 12/70 2020 offers are to Texas/Oklahoma kids and 12/32 2021 offers.

    Beyond the time invested in scouting these kids and developing relationships with them look at the time spent on flights to and from Texas. I don't have stats on that but back in the spring when husky football twitter was doing there where are the coaches going this week thing there were always multiple coaches going to Texas.
    Well I don't know how else to explain it other than the staff feels the time spent there is worth the payoff. I assume Petersen who is a pretty analytical nuts and bolts type would recognize the risk and reward ratio to Texas recruiting. I really would like someone to definitely prove to me which elite California kids we missed on this year due to not spending enough time in Cali. I think it's way more a function of the coach recruiting them that caused the disinterest rather than lack of face time.
    No one will ever be able to definitely prove that. There are a massive number of variables in recruiting. No one can say definitely "if we had spent more time recruiting recruit X he would have come here". We can theorize and speculate but never prove anything definitely.

    All any of this is is theory. But the theory that "time spent recruiting someone increases your likelihood of getting them" is pretty well accepted.
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    whuggywhuggy Member Posts: 2,088
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    edited August 2019

    whuggy said:

    And let's not bury the headline here. We all know that close to half the staff are below average recruiters. Four of our coaches could have been living in Justin Flowe's house for the last year and he still wouldn't come here. This is just as much or more an argument for quality recruiters over quantity of time spent.

    So basically it comes down to trust the coaches.

    But also the coaches who can't recruit will suck no matter what?

    I will reiterate a point I made earlier- one of our coaches has a reputation for taking layups and being lazy in recruiting. That coach also has the most disproportionate amount of offers out in Texas.

    Don't you think he should be focusing his limited time on trying to hit home runs in California?

    At this point Junior Adams, Scott Huff, Malloe and Lake can do whatever the fuck they want. But the other coaches need to focus on the highest percentage targets they can. They don't have time to spare on wild goose chases.
    You glossed over my main point. We have four coaches who could be living at recruit's houses in Cali and get shit results. You can keep sending a shitty salesman to a business every day but there won't be a sale. Time is the secondary issue here. Sending Adams Malloe Huff and Lake 5% of the time to Texas would probably be as effective as sending Gregory K Papoa and Bhonopha 100% of the time to Cali.
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    FremontTrollFremontTroll Member Posts: 4,707
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    whuggy said:

    whuggy said:

    And let's not bury the headline here. We all know that close to half the staff are below average recruiters. Four of our coaches could have been living in Justin Flowe's house for the last year and he still wouldn't come here. This is just as much or more an argument for quality recruiters over quantity of time spent.

    So basically it comes down to trust the coaches.

    But also the coaches who can't recruit will suck no matter what?

    I will reiterate a point I made earlier- one of our coaches has a reputation for taking layups and being lazy in recruiting. That coach also has the most disproportionate amount of offers out in Texas.

    Don't you think he should be focusing his limited time on trying to hit home runs in California?

    At this point Junior Adams, Scott Huff, Malloe and Lake can do whatever the fuck they want. But the other coaches need to focus on the highest percentage targets they can. They don't have time to spare on wild goose chases.
    You glossed over my main point. We have four coaches who could be living at recruit's houses in Cali and get shit results. You can keep sending a shitty salesman to a business every day but there won't be a sale. Time is the secondary issue here. Sending Adams Malloe Huff and Lake 5% of the time to Texas would probably be as effective as sending Gregory K Papoa and Bhonopha 100% of the time to Cali.
    No, I just totally disagree with it. We aren't employing basement dwelling keyboard jockeys who are somewhere on the spectrum.

    These guys all know how to relate to players. Some better than others and yes some are killer closers and some aren't but recruiting these kids and their families is largely about putting the time in and forming relationships.

    Some coaches love the pursuit and get after it all day every day. Some view it as secondary to the actual coaching part of the job.

    If you don't love recruiting then applying your time efficiently is absolutely crucial.
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    UW_Doog_BotUW_Doog_Bot Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 14,203
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    whuggy said:

    whuggy said:

    And let's not bury the headline here. We all know that close to half the staff are below average recruiters. Four of our coaches could have been living in Justin Flowe's house for the last year and he still wouldn't come here. This is just as much or more an argument for quality recruiters over quantity of time spent.

    So basically it comes down to trust the coaches.

    But also the coaches who can't recruit will suck no matter what?

    I will reiterate a point I made earlier- one of our coaches has a reputation for taking layups and being lazy in recruiting. That coach also has the most disproportionate amount of offers out in Texas.

    Don't you think he should be focusing his limited time on trying to hit home runs in California?

    At this point Junior Adams, Scott Huff, Malloe and Lake can do whatever the fuck they want. But the other coaches need to focus on the highest percentage targets they can. They don't have time to spare on wild goose chases.
    You glossed over my main point. We have four coaches who could be living at recruit's houses in Cali and get shit results. You can keep sending a shitty salesman to a business every day but there won't be a sale. Time is the secondary issue here. Sending Adams Malloe Huff and Lake 5% of the time to Texas would probably be as effective as sending Gregory K Papoa and Bhonopha 100% of the time to Cali.
    2) There's little opportunity cost to us recruiting Texas. We might as well do it.

    This is a hilariously bad take. Are recruiting schedules intense? Are coaches' times valuable? If the answer to either of questions is "no" then fucking fire the coach. Every trip taken to Texas is a trip not taken to Utah, Arizona, California, Oregon, etc. and often times because of the distance is worth two of the others.

    Kwat is the only one who obv gets a pass. Still, he should be developing relationships in our footprint so he can have a better shot.

    We keep sending Will Fucking Harris to Texas who has natural ties to SoCal.
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