I’m sure our healthcare outcomes are FAR superior to the countries behind us in this chart.
Is that because private individuals are wasting money or because the government is wasting money?
I love that all of the socialists like to pretend the US has a purely capitalist system when the argument is about how inefficient the current system is.
Intervene in the market, distort the market, blame the market, call for more intervention, rinse and repeat.
It’s the profit motive of health insurance and pharmaceuticals that are bleeding us dry. Capitalism is working folks no need to change!
What percentage of profit do you think health insurance and pharmaceuticals are making? Most of the majors are public companies so we should all probably invest in them if they are making a killing.
What a twat.
Awesome idea! I’m going to put the $50 I have available after I pay my $800 monthly premium into Pfizer stock next chance I get.
Thanks Obama!
The last "fix" fucked affordable insurance
Can't wait for the next one!
The shitty part of Obamacare was the exchanges that allowed the insurance and pharma vultures continued windfalls.
The good part was medicaid expansion.
Dipshit, their profits were controlled and prices were fixed based on that under obamacare.
I’m sure our healthcare outcomes are FAR superior to the countries behind us in this chart.
Is that because private individuals are wasting money or because the government is wasting money?
I love that all of the socialists like to pretend the US has a purely capitalist system when the argument is about how inefficient the current system is.
Intervene in the market, distort the market, blame the market, call for more intervention, rinse and repeat.
It’s the profit motive of health insurance and pharmaceuticals that are bleeding us dry. Capitalism is working folks no need to change!
There's a not for profit healthcare system operating right now. It's called the VA and we can all see how wonderfully they provide healthcare.
You do understand the difference between the VA and a single payer system right? I doubt it so I'll explain it.
You see, a single payer system still relies on the same doctors and hospitals, which are not government ran and owned.
Except that then either 1)those companies and doctors will price gouge(see the defense industry) or 2) they will reduce the amount supplied bc of the arbitrary price ceilings the government sets, waiting lines and shortages(see Europe or Venezuela)
You can argue that gravity and market forces don't exist all you want. Both will still continue to forces acting in the real world.
I’m sure our healthcare outcomes are FAR superior to the countries behind us in this chart.
Is that because private individuals are wasting money or because the government is wasting money?
I love that all of the socialists like to pretend the US has a purely capitalist system when the argument is about how inefficient the current system is.
Intervene in the market, distort the market, blame the market, call for more intervention, rinse and repeat.
I agree with you. But if I read that chart right. It shows that through 2007, public expenditures are less than private. No?
*sigh* The point is that public expenditures are a Yuge part of our system. The fact that they make up around 50% of the market tells you just what a "free" market it is. A pure free market should have 0% public expenditures.
C'mon Hondo, it's NOT hard.
Well then what you are saying is, half the market is already government ran, is not a big stretch to make the entire system government ran.
Yeah, the government is doing such a knock out job with their socialist utopia programs that are driving up skyrocketing spending! We should definitely increase that!
Socialist playbook.
Better spend hundreds of billions to fight imaginary enemies at the end of the earth. Much better use of our wealth than social programs that literally prevent people from dying!
This is why arguing with a liberal is pointless.
Your daily routine is arguing with liberals on an online message board so what does that say
There's really not much of an argument. There's guys like you who emote a lot but when it comes to an argument you don't offer much.
I’m sure our healthcare outcomes are FAR superior to the countries behind us in this chart.
Is that because private individuals are wasting money or because the government is wasting money?
I love that all of the socialists like to pretend the US has a purely capitalist system when the argument is about how inefficient the current system is.
Intervene in the market, distort the market, blame the market, call for more intervention, rinse and repeat.
It’s the profit motive of health insurance and pharmaceuticals that are bleeding us dry. Capitalism is working folks no need to change!
What percentage of profit do you think health insurance and pharmaceuticals are making? Most of the majors are public companies so we should all probably invest in them if they are making a killing.
What a twat.
Awesome idea! I’m going to put the $50 I have available after I pay my $800 monthly premium into Pfizer stock next chance I get.
Thanks Obama!
The last "fix" fucked affordable insurance
Can't wait for the next one!
The shitty part of Obamacare was the exchanges that allowed the insurance and pharma vultures continued windfalls.
The good part was medicaid expansion.
Dipshit, their profits were controlled and prices were fixed based on that under obamacare.
Except insurance companies were given 30 million new customers. Did you hear of one that complained about their supposed controlled profits?
And with more people covered, how much more do you think big pharma made?
I’m sure our healthcare outcomes are FAR superior to the countries behind us in this chart.
Is that because private individuals are wasting money or because the government is wasting money?
I love that all of the socialists like to pretend the US has a purely capitalist system when the argument is about how inefficient the current system is.
Intervene in the market, distort the market, blame the market, call for more intervention, rinse and repeat.
It’s the profit motive of health insurance and pharmaceuticals that are bleeding us dry. Capitalism is working folks no need to change!
What percentage of profit do you think health insurance and pharmaceuticals are making? Most of the majors are public companies so we should all probably invest in them if they are making a killing.
What a twat.
Awesome idea! I’m going to put the $50 I have available after I pay my $800 monthly premium into Pfizer stock next chance I get.
Why is it $800? Oh right, because of market intervention the last time.
Socialist playbook.
The socialist playbook would be getting rid of private insurance, controlling drug prices, and creating an NHS style authority.
But any market intervention = socialist!!! Even when it’s an intervention that protects entrenched corporate interests.
The funniest recurring bit on this board is you pretending to be an intellectual.
I’m sure our healthcare outcomes are FAR superior to the countries behind us in this chart.
Is that because private individuals are wasting money or because the government is wasting money?
I love that all of the socialists like to pretend the US has a purely capitalist system when the argument is about how inefficient the current system is.
Intervene in the market, distort the market, blame the market, call for more intervention, rinse and repeat.
It’s the profit motive of health insurance and pharmaceuticals that are bleeding us dry. Capitalism is working folks no need to change!
There's a not for profit healthcare system operating right now. It's called the VA and we can all see how wonderfully they provide healthcare.
The VA! Venezuela! Bill Ayers!
Yes, yes how dare anyone point out real world examples of the system you're advocating for sucking ass. We should only focus on the socialist utopia that's in your mind.
JFC who the fuck is going to do anything without a profit?
There is a big need to change
The devil remains firmly ensconced in the details
Get rid of government healthcare. Create medical savings accounts that people pay into just like they do with SS over the course of their entire working life and create catastrophic health insurance to cover extra ordinary expenses life cancer and heart surgery.
Let people shop for their everyday healthcare needs just like they do with every other consumer product. Build an incentive into the system for people to save money. Treat the money accumulated in the MSA as an asset that people can pass onto their heirs when they die. Why do people spend the greatest percentage of all their healthcare cost in the last two years of their lives? Because for the most part they ain't paying for it.
When you get cancer or a life threatening disease. Let me know how shopping works out.
You do know there's a difference between buying a car and cancer care, right?
I’m sure our healthcare outcomes are FAR superior to the countries behind us in this chart.
Is that because private individuals are wasting money or because the government is wasting money?
I love that all of the socialists like to pretend the US has a purely capitalist system when the argument is about how inefficient the current system is.
Intervene in the market, distort the market, blame the market, call for more intervention, rinse and repeat.
It’s the profit motive of health insurance and pharmaceuticals that are bleeding us dry. Capitalism is working folks no need to change!
What percentage of profit do you think health insurance and pharmaceuticals are making? Most of the majors are public companies so we should all probably invest in them if they are making a killing.
What a twat.
Awesome idea! I’m going to put the $50 I have available after I pay my $800 monthly premium into Pfizer stock next chance I get.
Thanks Obama!
The last "fix" fucked affordable insurance
Can't wait for the next one!
The shitty part of Obamacare was the exchanges that allowed the insurance and pharma vultures continued windfalls.
The good part was medicaid expansion.
Dipshit, their profits were controlled and prices were fixed based on that under obamacare.
Except insurance companies were given 30 million new customers. Did you hear of one that complained about their supposed controlled profits?
And with more people covered, how much more do you think big pharma made?
I thought you were an economics smart guy too.
He’s not an economics smart guy. See the thread where he said my use of “infrastructure” to describe private property rights, which was akin to conditions or framework, nullified my entire point.
I’m sure our healthcare outcomes are FAR superior to the countries behind us in this chart.
Is that because private individuals are wasting money or because the government is wasting money?
I love that all of the socialists like to pretend the US has a purely capitalist system when the argument is about how inefficient the current system is.
Intervene in the market, distort the market, blame the market, call for more intervention, rinse and repeat.
It’s the profit motive of health insurance and pharmaceuticals that are bleeding us dry. Capitalism is working folks no need to change!
There's a not for profit healthcare system operating right now. It's called the VA and we can all see how wonderfully they provide healthcare.
The VA! Venezuela! Bill Ayers!
Yes, yes how dare anyone point out real world examples of the system you're advocating for sucking ass. We should only focus on the socialist utopia that's in your mind.
JFC who the fuck is going to do anything without a profit?
There is a big need to change
The devil remains firmly ensconced in the details
Get rid of government healthcare. Create medical savings accounts that people pay into just like they do with SS over the course of their entire working life and create catastrophic health insurance to cover extra ordinary expenses life cancer and heart surgery.
Let people shop for their everyday healthcare needs just like they do with every other consumer product. Build an incentive into the system for people to save money. Treat the money accumulated in the MSA as an asset that people can pass onto their heirs when they die. Why do people spend the greatest percentage of all their healthcare cost in the last two years of their lives? Because for the most part they ain't paying for it.
When you get cancer or a life threatening disease. Let me know how shopping works out.
You do know there's a difference between buying a car and cancer care, right?
What's the difference Hondo?
Cue the Kunt act.
Have you ever known anyone with cancer Bob? You don't walk into a hospital and start discussion the options you want. Then get a price and go to other hospitals and shop it around.
Same with heart attacks and strokes and shit. You don't sit up in the helicopter or ambulance and have a discussion on which hospital has the cheapest rates.
I’m sure our healthcare outcomes are FAR superior to the countries behind us in this chart.
Is that because private individuals are wasting money or because the government is wasting money?
I love that all of the socialists like to pretend the US has a purely capitalist system when the argument is about how inefficient the current system is.
Intervene in the market, distort the market, blame the market, call for more intervention, rinse and repeat.
It’s the profit motive of health insurance and pharmaceuticals that are bleeding us dry. Capitalism is working folks no need to change!
What percentage of profit do you think health insurance and pharmaceuticals are making? Most of the majors are public companies so we should all probably invest in them if they are making a killing.
What a twat.
Awesome idea! I’m going to put the $50 I have available after I pay my $800 monthly premium into Pfizer stock next chance I get.
Thanks Obama!
The last "fix" fucked affordable insurance
Can't wait for the next one!
The shitty part of Obamacare was the exchanges that allowed the insurance and pharma vultures continued windfalls.
The good part was medicaid expansion.
Dipshit, their profits were controlled and prices were fixed based on that under obamacare.
Except insurance companies were given 30 million new customers. Did you hear of one that complained about their supposed controlled profits?
And with more people covered, how much more do you think big pharma made?
I thought you were an economics smart guy too.
Which misses the mark if you are claiming they aren't providing services and simply raking in profits at the expense of care to customers.
Hondo, I really don't mind you and can see what you are getting at sometimes but you really do latch onto the oddest of angles of arguments. Let's break this down.
1) It's profits that are driving up costs! Consumers aren't receiving care!
2) Profits are fixed, it's not profits driving up costs.
3) Consumers are receiving care! That's driving up costs! Gotcha! (Lol wat?)
JFC who the fuck is going to do anything without a profit?
There is a big need to change
The devil remains firmly ensconced in the details
Get rid of government healthcare. Create medical savings accounts that people pay into just like they do with SS over the course of their entire working life and create catastrophic health insurance to cover extra ordinary expenses life cancer and heart surgery.
Let people shop for their everyday healthcare needs just like they do with every other consumer product. Build an incentive into the system for people to save money. Treat the money accumulated in the MSA as an asset that people can pass onto their heirs when they die. Why do people spend the greatest percentage of all their healthcare cost in the last two years of their lives? Because for the most part they ain't paying for it.
When you get cancer or a life threatening disease. Let me know how shopping works out.
You do know there's a difference between buying a car and cancer care, right?
What's the difference Hondo?
Cue the Kunt act.
Have you ever known anyone with cancer Bob? You don't walk into a hospital and start discussion the options you want. Then get a price and go to other hospitals and shop it around.
Same with heart attacks and strokes and shit. You don't sit up in the helicopter or ambulance and have a discussion on which hospital has the cheapest rates.
The fuck is wrong with you?
Gosh I'm fairly sure I mentioned catastrophic health insurance coverage Hondo and "Let people shop for their everyday healthcare needs" was what I said. So either you ignored what I said, were too stupid to understand what I said, or decided to fuck a little strawman ass because you're too stupid to argue against what I actually say.
I’m sure our healthcare outcomes are FAR superior to the countries behind us in this chart.
Is that because private individuals are wasting money or because the government is wasting money?
I love that all of the socialists like to pretend the US has a purely capitalist system when the argument is about how inefficient the current system is.
Intervene in the market, distort the market, blame the market, call for more intervention, rinse and repeat.
It’s the profit motive of health insurance and pharmaceuticals that are bleeding us dry. Capitalism is working folks no need to change!
What percentage of profit do you think health insurance and pharmaceuticals are making? Most of the majors are public companies so we should all probably invest in them if they are making a killing.
What a twat.
Awesome idea! I’m going to put the $50 I have available after I pay my $800 monthly premium into Pfizer stock next chance I get.
Thanks Obama!
The last "fix" fucked affordable insurance
Can't wait for the next one!
The shitty part of Obamacare was the exchanges that allowed the insurance and pharma vultures continued windfalls.
The good part was medicaid expansion.
Dipshit, their profits were controlled and prices were fixed based on that under obamacare.
Except insurance companies were given 30 million new customers. Did you hear of one that complained about their supposed controlled profits?
And with more people covered, how much more do you think big pharma made?
I thought you were an economics smart guy too.
He’s not an economics smart guy. See the thread where he said my use of “infrastructure” to describe private property rights, which was akin to conditions or framework, nullified my entire point.
Bruh, I copypasta'd wikipedia for you bc you are that stupid. That's the joke. You might get it if you were smarter and pm'd @IrishDawg22 to get clued in around here.
State price setting is an affect of central planning, you can argue that the strict definition of socialism is "state ownership of the means of production" all you want but it's a "no true scotsman" fallacy.
Move your definitions if you like to central planning vs. free markets. My arguments remain the same.
Lol you really don't know shit about Econ. ~ Someone who graduated from UW's Econ department.
I’m sure our healthcare outcomes are FAR superior to the countries behind us in this chart.
Is that because private individuals are wasting money or because the government is wasting money?
I love that all of the socialists like to pretend the US has a purely capitalist system when the argument is about how inefficient the current system is.
Intervene in the market, distort the market, blame the market, call for more intervention, rinse and repeat.
It’s the profit motive of health insurance and pharmaceuticals that are bleeding us dry. Capitalism is working folks no need to change!
There's a not for profit healthcare system operating right now. It's called the VA and we can all see how wonderfully they provide healthcare.
The VA! Venezuela! Bill Ayers!
Yes, yes how dare anyone point out real world examples of the system you're advocating for sucking ass. We should only focus on the socialist utopia that's in your mind.
Sure let’s pick socialism in the Nordics.
Right after they open their borders and pay for their own defense
That's the problem with the left - free healthcare and open borders is no way fucking possible at all ever
I’m sure our healthcare outcomes are FAR superior to the countries behind us in this chart.
Is that because private individuals are wasting money or because the government is wasting money?
I love that all of the socialists like to pretend the US has a purely capitalist system when the argument is about how inefficient the current system is.
Intervene in the market, distort the market, blame the market, call for more intervention, rinse and repeat.
It’s the profit motive of health insurance and pharmaceuticals that are bleeding us dry. Capitalism is working folks no need to change!
What percentage of profit do you think health insurance and pharmaceuticals are making? Most of the majors are public companies so we should all probably invest in them if they are making a killing.
What a twat.
Awesome idea! I’m going to put the $50 I have available after I pay my $800 monthly premium into Pfizer stock next chance I get.
Thanks Obama!
The last "fix" fucked affordable insurance
Can't wait for the next one!
The shitty part of Obamacare was the exchanges that allowed the insurance and pharma vultures continued windfalls.
The good part was medicaid expansion.
Dipshit, their profits were controlled and prices were fixed based on that under obamacare.
Except insurance companies were given 30 million new customers. Did you hear of one that complained about their supposed controlled profits?
And with more people covered, how much more do you think big pharma made?
I thought you were an economics smart guy too.
Which misses the mark if you are claiming they aren't providing services and simply raking in profits at the expense of care to customers.
Hondo, I really don't mind you and can see what you are getting at sometimes but you really do latch onto the oddest of angles of arguments. Let's break this down.
1) It's profits that are driving up costs! Consumers aren't receiving care!
2) Profits are fixed, it's not profits driving up costs.
3) Consumers are receiving care! That's driving up costs! Gotcha! (Lol wat?)
Lol I enjoy arguing with someone who knows something, which you do.
However, I didn't come with the angle that they aren't providing services and raking in profits. The angle I approach it with.... They make about 5% profit, and it's fixed as you say, and there's huge waste. Government has even more waste, but is it more than the 5% profit? I don't know the answer to that. But I know with negotiated Medicare rates, overall costs should be lower than the current system.
Under single payer, the overall costs will be driven down for the reason mentioned before. And I think consumer costs will be lower as the increased tax will be less than what most consumers pay in insurance (yes there will be some losers) and out of pocket will be much lower.
I've also seen people screwed over because insurance companies won't pay for shit the doctor recommends and the patient needs. Sometimes from the insurance company overriding the experts opinion. And sometimes the specialist is out of network and bullshit like that. In all honesty, this is the main reason I want to go single payer as I'll probably end up paying more if we went to single payer.
I’m sure our healthcare outcomes are FAR superior to the countries behind us in this chart.
Is that because private individuals are wasting money or because the government is wasting money?
I love that all of the socialists like to pretend the US has a purely capitalist system when the argument is about how inefficient the current system is.
Intervene in the market, distort the market, blame the market, call for more intervention, rinse and repeat.
It’s the profit motive of health insurance and pharmaceuticals that are bleeding us dry. Capitalism is working folks no need to change!
There's a not for profit healthcare system operating right now. It's called the VA and we can all see how wonderfully they provide healthcare.
The VA! Venezuela! Bill Ayers!
Yes, yes how dare anyone point out real world examples of the system you're advocating for sucking ass. We should only focus on the socialist utopia that's in your mind.
Sure let’s pick socialism in the Nordics.
Right after they open their borders and pay for their own defense
That's the problem with the left - free healthcare and open borders is no way fucking possible at all ever
Pick one
A good many of the Nordic's rank higher than we do on the Economic freedom measures as well.
Let's discuss Denmark's policy of having no minimum wage.
I might be willing to trade massive government intervention in one industry for a massive reversal of government intervention in the entire labor market.
Every American should have the right to pay for his or her own medical procedures if they can afford to regardless of whether insurance of the government says they will cover it
In order to have government insurance you have to force everyone in under threat of prison and you have to ration what is available and what is available to one is available to all. No option to pay it yourself unless you leave the country, Same with avoiding long waiting times which come with single payer
Insurance sucks. 100% government is worse
Pull back Obamacare like the GOP lied about and health insurance will have the ability to tailor policies to needs.
I’m sure our healthcare outcomes are FAR superior to the countries behind us in this chart.
Is that because private individuals are wasting money or because the government is wasting money?
I love that all of the socialists like to pretend the US has a purely capitalist system when the argument is about how inefficient the current system is.
Intervene in the market, distort the market, blame the market, call for more intervention, rinse and repeat.
It’s the profit motive of health insurance and pharmaceuticals that are bleeding us dry. Capitalism is working folks no need to change!
There's a not for profit healthcare system operating right now. It's called the VA and we can all see how wonderfully they provide healthcare.
The VA! Venezuela! Bill Ayers!
Yes, yes how dare anyone point out real world examples of the system you're advocating for sucking ass. We should only focus on the socialist utopia that's in your mind.
Sure let’s pick socialism in the Nordics.
Right after they open their borders and pay for their own defense
That's the problem with the left - free healthcare and open borders is no way fucking possible at all ever
Pick one
A good many of the Nordic's rank higher than we do on the Economic freedom measures as well.
Let's discuss Denmark's policy of having no minimum wage.
I might be willing to trade massive government intervention in one industry for a massive reversal of government intervention in the entire labor market.
I'd be willing to trade anything for liberal tears.
Comments
You can argue that gravity and market forces don't exist all you want. Both will still continue to forces acting in the real world.
And with more people covered, how much more do you think big pharma made?
I thought you were an economics smart guy too.
But any market intervention = socialist!!! Even when it’s an intervention that protects entrenched corporate interests.
The funniest recurring bit on this board is you pretending to be an intellectual.
Cue the Kunt act.
Same with heart attacks and strokes and shit. You don't sit up in the helicopter or ambulance and have a discussion on which hospital has the cheapest rates.
The fuck is wrong with you?
Hondo, I really don't mind you and can see what you are getting at sometimes but you really do latch onto the oddest of angles of arguments. Let's break this down.
1) It's profits that are driving up costs! Consumers aren't receiving care!
2) Profits are fixed, it's not profits driving up costs.
3) Consumers are receiving care! That's driving up costs! Gotcha! (Lol wat?)
Which is it Hondo?
State price setting is an affect of central planning, you can argue that the strict definition of socialism is "state ownership of the means of production" all you want but it's a "no true scotsman" fallacy.
Move your definitions if you like to central planning vs. free markets. My arguments remain the same.
Lol you really don't know shit about Econ. ~ Someone who graduated from UW's Econ department.
That makes no sense. Taxpayers paid more for poor people at the expense of their own insurance.
There was no influx of new paying insurance customers
Its the big lie of Obama care for shills like hondo to cling to in order to claim its wasn't a total fucking disaster
That's the problem with the left - free healthcare and open borders is no way fucking possible at all ever
Pick one
However, I didn't come with the angle that they aren't providing services and raking in profits. The angle I approach it with.... They make about 5% profit, and it's fixed as you say, and there's huge waste. Government has even more waste, but is it more than the 5% profit? I don't know the answer to that. But I know with negotiated Medicare rates, overall costs should be lower than the current system.
Under single payer, the overall costs will be driven down for the reason mentioned before. And I think consumer costs will be lower as the increased tax will be less than what most consumers pay in insurance (yes there will be some losers) and out of pocket will be much lower.
I've also seen people screwed over because insurance companies won't pay for shit the doctor recommends and the patient needs. Sometimes from the insurance company overriding the experts opinion. And sometimes the specialist is out of network and bullshit like that. In all honesty, this is the main reason I want to go single payer as I'll probably end up paying more if we went to single payer.
Let's discuss Denmark's policy of having no minimum wage.
I might be willing to trade massive government intervention in one industry for a massive reversal of government intervention in the entire labor market.
In order to have government insurance you have to force everyone in under threat of prison and you have to ration what is available and what is available to one is available to all. No option to pay it yourself unless you leave the country, Same with avoiding long waiting times which come with single payer
Insurance sucks. 100% government is worse
Pull back Obamacare like the GOP lied about and health insurance will have the ability to tailor policies to needs.
And like a child Hondo believes that government will pay for everything a doctor recommends and the patient needs.