Steel and aluminum tariffs
Comments
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It's not just Bloomberg, the entire oil and natural gas industry has slammed the tariffs. This is what AOPL said but I'm sure that HoustoFS knows better.HoustonHusky said:The pipeline Bloomberg bit is funny...they don't understand the total costs of pipelines (it ain't just steel). Not as dumb as HondoFS' new sidekick (HI CirrhosisoftheBrain), but amusing...
As for why aluminum and steel were chosen its a direct shot at China...the media and a few folks around here appear too dumb to realize this. For those that don't think this look at this story from about a year ago:
http://www.businessinsider.com/a-chinese-billionaire-may-have-hidden-6-of-the-worlds-aluminum-in-the-mexican-desert-2016-9
Why exactly would a Chinese billionaire store 6% of the world's aluminum in a desert in Mexico along the US border if it wasn't to illegally get it to the US via NAFTA? And for this and a few others caught I guarantee there is at least 10x more coming through illegally. The best part was the end when he said 'my bad...we really meant to send that to Vietnam.'
That said I'm assuming this is more of a negotiating ploy than anything else...long term I'm ok with China subsidizing our raw materials...the balance in trade has to be in respecting intellectual property (they don't), opening up their markets to our finished products (they don't unless their specific market isn't caught up enough to make it themselves), and opening up their internal businesses to non-Chinese investments. And we have an inertia of 30 years of politicians not really caring...I'll believe that actually changed when I see some of those things addressed.AOPL said the ICF study indicated that trade or material purchasing restrictions that raised pipe costs 25% would translate into a $76 million cost increase for a 280-mile pipeline project. Tariffs on steel or welded pipe could delay or cancel new projects and end up hurting American workers through less pipeline construction, AOPL said.
Addressing the steel market, AOPL said U.S. firms do not make enough pipeline-grade steel that must meet high quality specifications to protect against cracking or flaws that are not required for other steel products. Pipeline-grade steel is such a niche market -– at 3% of the total steel market -– that U.S. steel producers largely exited the business due to lower margins and chose to focus on higher volume products such as steel for cars and appliances, AOPL said. -
Sounds grand, but "material" is only about 15% of the total cost of a pipeline...labor is the largest chunk of it, transportation of the pipes, land rights, etc. etc. So a 25% tariff on steel means the actual pipeline costs only go up less than 4%...
A public reference from a couple years ago...
https://www.ogj.com/articles/print/volume-112/issue-9/special-report-pipeline-economics/crude-oil-pipeline-growth-revenues-surge-construction-costs-mount.html
Like I said, the Bloomberg guy was a moron... -
Look at the trumpanzees rationalizing and justifying their desire to fuck over consumers to protect the useless and unproductive. Cars? Energy? They will only cost a little bit more...HoustonHusky said:Sounds grand, but "material" is only about 15% of the total cost of a pipeline...labor is the largest chunk of it, transportation of the pipes, land rights, etc. etc. So a 25% tariff on steel means the actual pipeline costs only go up less than 4%...
A public reference from a couple years ago...
https://www.ogj.com/articles/print/volume-112/issue-9/special-report-pipeline-economics/crude-oil-pipeline-growth-revenues-surge-construction-costs-mount.html
Like I said, the Bloomberg guy was a moron...
Same arguments unions and minimum wage advocates use. Same arguments from everyone who can’t compete on their own. -
Yeah, what a moron! So if a 25% tariff is so trumptastic why not make it 100%? 200%?HoustonHusky said:Sounds grand, but "material" is only about 15% of the total cost of a pipeline...labor is the largest chunk of it, transportation of the pipes, land rights, etc. etc. So a 25% tariff on steel means the actual pipeline costs only go up less than 4%...
A public reference from a couple years ago...
https://www.ogj.com/articles/print/volume-112/issue-9/special-report-pipeline-economics/crude-oil-pipeline-growth-revenues-surge-construction-costs-mount.html
Like I said, the Bloomberg guy was a moron...
Just think how great things will be then! Just like increasing the minimum wage makes us all wealthier. More protection for uneconomic US assets the better! -
Tariffs & protectionism is a long union/Dem position. How I love the hypocrisy on parade.2001400ex said:
There are dumb fucking Democrats too. Your point?doogie said:LO fucking L
Bill Richardson: Trump doing right thing.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/02/democratic-congresswoman-supports-trumps-tariffs-we-cant-afford-to-lose-us-steel-production.html -
True. The GOP deserves credit for its historical opposition to tariffs as self-defeating stupidity. Except for for a few lonely and feeble voices of opposition to this, where is the GOP now?GrundleStiltzkin said:
Tariffs & protectionism is a long union/Dem position. How I love the hypocrisy on parade.2001400ex said:
There are dumb fucking Democrats too. Your point?doogie said:LO fucking L
Bill Richardson: Trump doing right thing.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/02/democratic-congresswoman-supports-trumps-tariffs-we-cant-afford-to-lose-us-steel-production.html -
Wasn't it Clinton who showered before N AFTA banging Monica? I mean wasn't it Clinton that pimped NAFTA?GrundleStiltzkin said:
Tariffs & protectionism is a long union/Dem position. How I love the hypocrisy on parade.2001400ex said:
There are dumb fucking Democrats too. Your point?doogie said:LO fucking L
Bill Richardson: Trump doing right thing.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/02/democratic-congresswoman-supports-trumps-tariffs-we-cant-afford-to-lose-us-steel-production.html -
Always grand when one dumb response is not good enough so CirrhosisoftheBrain hits reply twice and still ignores all the salient points.
HondoFS must be proud... -
Please. Go on defending tariffs and protectionism. You are a font of “salient” points about fucking over consumers to protect inefficiency and obsolescence.HoustonHusky said:Always grand when one dumb response is not good enough so CirrhosisoftheBrain hits reply twice and still ignores all the salient points.
HondoFS must be proud...
It’s always grand. -
Even if I take your numbers at face value a 4% increase on a several hundred million dollar pipeline isn't non trivial. I'm sure you would be happy to eat a 4% increase in your income or property taxes because it's only 4%, right?HoustonHusky said:Sounds grand, but "material" is only about 15% of the total cost of a pipeline...labor is the largest chunk of it, transportation of the pipes, land rights, etc. etc. So a 25% tariff on steel means the actual pipeline costs only go up less than 4%...
A public reference from a couple years ago...
https://www.ogj.com/articles/print/volume-112/issue-9/special-report-pipeline-economics/crude-oil-pipeline-growth-revenues-surge-construction-costs-mount.html
Like I said, the Bloomberg guy was a moron...
The major oil and natural gas trade groups already came out against the tariff. Bloomberg and the other outlets are now just reporting on it. But if HoustoFS says that it's not a big deal then I guess I should just dismiss what the entire industry is saying.
