Systemic racism

UW_Doog_Bot said:

End the ass-backwards war on drugs. That alone would cover a huge percentage of our fucked up incarceration numbers.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(and, yes, I had to edit that)

here is a good example of admitted systematic racism of which the effects are still felt today:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/nixon-adviser-ehrlichman-anti-left-anti-black-war-on-drugs-2019-7?amp

WilburHooksHands said:

TurdBomber said:

MikeDamone said:

Fire_Marshall_Bill said:

WilburHooksHands said:

Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.

Blacks commit way over 40 perent of crime. I think it might be low 50s. I don't have time to look it up. I suppose it's somehow white people's fault though. Oppression and shit.

The argument is they get charged more severely for less serious crimes or charges when others would be not charged at all. Also harsher sentences for the same crimes. I think the harsher sentence part is true.

But what's also true is black men commit over 50% of all homicides. That stat can't be skewed by DA and judges.

"Offender Scores" are earned under standardized sentencing laws. Judges barely have any discretion in the matters since the 1980s and 1990s sentencing reforms. More criminal history means longer sentences for the supposedly "same" crimes. This is a stupid argument made by stupid people.

at least your handle is on point from shitting all over this thread

Talk is cheap. How about some proof? Or are you gonna be like @GDS?

SFGbob said:

PurpleThrobber said:

Sledog said:

creepycoug said:

Sledog said:

creepycoug said:

RaceBannon said:

I believe Savy. But the same genetics that gave him Black skin and the problems he described also gave him rare size and athletic talent that combined with his hard work gives him unlimited opportunity going forward.

Would he trade with a 5 foot 10 130 high school senior who is white?

I agree we try too many one size fits all fixes. Zero tolerance is lazy and stupid. Make calls based on the individual.

America actually discusses race quite a bit. Since I was a youngin. Sometimes its honest sometimes it is not. It is still tough to be a young black male and its better than ever. Everyone is a victim of something or they choose to be a victor. That crosses all races.

I agree with this. I also believe the bolded part. I don't know why black men commit such a disproportionate share of violent crime, and I suspect nobody in this thread does either.

So we've eliminated the role of racism ... because we're in the Tug. Ok, stipulated (for you dullards, that means don't keep arguing the point; you won).

The question that remains is, why? Bob says too many illegitimate births and not enough Dads. Ok, let's stipulate that, too (because it's basically true). If that's a big cause (debatable but plausible), why? Why is the black experience so often that of a broken home and poverty, etc. etc.?

Yeah, Smalls has opportunity because he won the genetic lottery. But most people don't win lotteries ... of any kind. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a lottery.

Westlinn says he'll follow the black kid in the store because statistics. Ok, understood. Does that have an effect on that black kid? That collective experience? Seems like it plays out in contact with the police here and there.

I don't like the race game anymore than the next guy. What's the real driver? Maybe the biggest question: does the Tug think that the black community shouldn't be pissed off? Or, rather, should all of us be pissed off about police brutality? FWIW, the latter is where I lean. We need the cops. But we need them to do a better job sifting through their ranks to sort out the murder boners (props to whomever came up with that one).

America had a fairly large middle class black population years ago, I suggest you look at the cause of it's destruction. You'll find many of the answers.

Or you can just spit it out. I'm lazy.

Destruction of the black family, replacement of the father via welfare, government benefits paying more for unmarried women and more for more children. Planned. Paid for with our tax dollars. This stuff is planned dependency for a voting block.

The crack epidemic hit african-american neighborhoods with about 100X more intensity than the suburbs. Knew quite a few guys who got sucked into that black (no pun intended) hole.

Yep, it was every bit as bad as the opiate crisis is now and it involved a lot more violence among the people selling it on the streets.

SFGBob is crushing this thread today, with something Wilbur can't produce: Facts.

It wasn't the drugs that produced the crime bill. It was drive by gangsters lighting up bus stops with fucking Uzis, shooting 8 to 10 innocent people at a time while trying to rub out an opposing gang member.

As McNulty said on the Wire: "We're the Murder Police. It's about the Bodies, Yo."

TurdBomber said:

WilburHooksHands said:

TurdBomber said:

WilburHooksHands said:

TurdBomber said:

MikeDamone said:

Fire_Marshall_Bill said:

WilburHooksHands said:

Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.

Blacks commit way over 40 perent of crime. I think it might be low 50s. I don't have time to look it up. I suppose it's somehow white people's fault though. Oppression and shit.

The argument is they get charged more severely for less serious crimes or charges when others would be not charged at all. Also harsher sentences for the same crimes. I think the harsher sentence part is true.

But what's also true is black men commit over 50% of all homicides. That stat can't be skewed by DA and judges.

"Offender Scores" are earned under standardized sentencing laws. Judges barely have any discretion in the matters since the 1980s and 1990s sentencing reforms. More criminal history means longer sentences for the supposedly "same" crimes. This is a stupid argument made by stupid people.

at least your handle is on point from shitting all over this thread

Talk is cheap. How about some proof? Or are you gonna be like @GDS?

lol

Fuck Off, Pipsqueak.

LOL.

I’m a 6’5 250 former army ranger

This isn't meant to be an oppression Olympics post... but complaining because someone followed you in a store or a girl turned away from you is some intern level racism experienced shit. To then blame an entire group of people, or even an entire county, that overwhelmingly disagrees with those interactions occurring is fucking stupid.

Love this.

One of the things that bothered me about Obama was he and his wife's citation of incidents like these in order to say that even they had been victims of racism in America.

TurdBomber said:

WilburHooksHands said:

TurdBomber said:

WilburHooksHands said:

TurdBomber said:

WilburHooksHands said:

TurdBomber said:

MikeDamone said:

Fire_Marshall_Bill said:

WilburHooksHands said:

Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.

Blacks commit way over 40 perent of crime. I think it might be low 50s. I don't have time to look it up. I suppose it's somehow white people's fault though. Oppression and shit.

The argument is they get charged more severely for less serious crimes or charges when others would be not charged at all. Also harsher sentences for the same crimes. I think the harsher sentence part is true.

But what's also true is black men commit over 50% of all homicides. That stat can't be skewed by DA and judges.

"Offender Scores" are earned under standardized sentencing laws. Judges barely have any discretion in the matters since the 1980s and 1990s sentencing reforms. More criminal history means longer sentences for the supposedly "same" crimes. This is a stupid argument made by stupid people.

at least your handle is on point from shitting all over this thread

Talk is cheap. How about some proof? Or are you gonna be like @GDS?

lol

Fuck Off, Pipsqueak.

LOL.

I’m a 6’5 250 former army ranger

Stop before I hurt your feelings.

the cocaine already did

Systemic racism is being hand cuffed, tried, and executed on the side walk. There are some people that did a crime that absolutely should be arresting, they are not asking to not being arrested but they are asking no to be tried and convicted on the sidewalk. George Floyd was using "alleged" bad checks it wasn't even confirmed and he was treated that way and murdered. While you take Gabe Mcdonalds who shot 8 people in a church and they take him out to get something to eat. They want what we want, they want to grow old and live, a chance at opportunities, better learning, fair lending practices for businesses. You can sit perfectly still and still get shot, they don't know what to tell their kids about police. Privilege is not that you didn't grow up poor or worked hard no one takes that from you. Privilege is you don't have to go through life fearful of losing you're life innocently on the sidewalk. Privilege is being able to ignore what is going on because it doesn't affect you. If you can sit there and be ok if someone were to ask you "Would you like to be treated as Black people?" and you have to think about it or stay silent or just no. Then you know deep down something is off and something isn't equal. Systemic racism is like the women in central park who chokes her dog and calls the police lying to them about being threatened by a black man. Those phone calls lead to cases like Floyd... No one is taking your privilege away or saying its bad but one life matters more than the other right now. Anyone with a brain knows "All lives matter" but until All lives matter equally we need to run to this portion in our community and aid them until All lived really do matter equally.. It good to have these conversations

TurdBomber said:

SFGbob said:

One of the things that bothered me about Obama was he and his wife's citation of incidents like these in order to say that even they had been victims of racism in America.

In fairness to Obama, anytime he said anything about race, he was either gonna catch arrows in the chest or arrows in the back.

And if he said nothing, probably both.

If being mistook for the valet or in Michelle's case being asked by a short white woman to grab something off a higher shelf, a story which she told for both humor and as an example of the racism she'd had to endure in her life, are the worst examples you can come up with, then you've lived a pretty fucking charmed life.

Both Michelle and Barack received far more benefits on account of their skin color than they did negatives and instead of using that to push a positive message of how far we've come on the issue of race they used it to paint themselves as victims and to talk about how even they are subject to racism in America.

DodgyBloke said:

Systemic racism is being hand cuffed, tried, and executed on the side walk. There are some people that did a crime that absolutely should be arresting, they are not asking to not being arrested but they are asking no to be tried and convicted on the sidewalk. George Floyd was using "alleged" bad checks it wasn't even confirmed and he was treated that way and murdered. While you take Gabe Mcdonalds who shot 8 people in a church and they take him out to get something to eat. They want what we want, they want to grow old and live, a chance at opportunities, better learning, fair lending practices for businesses. You can sit perfectly still and still get shot, they don't know what to tell their kids about police. Privilege is not that you didn't grow up poor or worked hard no one takes that from you. Privilege is you don't have to go through life fearful of losing you're life innocently on the sidewalk. Privilege is being able to ignore what is going on because it doesn't affect you. If you can sit there and be ok if someone were to ask you "Would you like to be treated as Black people?" and you have to think about it or stay silent or just no. Then you know deep down something is off and something isn't equal. Systemic racism is like the women in central park who chokes her dog and calls the police lying to them about being threatened by a black man. Those phone calls lead to cases like Floyd... No one is taking your privilege away or saying its bad but one life matters more than the other right now. Anyone with a brain knows "All lives matter" but until All lives matter equally we need to run to this portion in our community and aid them until All lived really do matter equally.. It good to have these conversations

So is this white privilege?

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/you-re-gonna-kill-me-dallas-police-body-cam-footage-reveals-the-final-minutes-of-tony-timpa-s-life/

DodgyBloke said:

Systemic racism is being hand cuffed, tried, and executed on the side walk. There are some people that did a crime that absolutely should be arresting, they are not asking to not being arrested but they are asking no to be tried and convicted on the sidewalk. George Floyd was using "alleged" bad checks it wasn't even confirmed and he was treated that way and murdered. While you take Gabe Mcdonalds who shot 8 people in a church and they take him out to get something to eat. They want what we want, they want to grow old and live, a chance at opportunities, better learning, fair lending practices for businesses. You can sit perfectly still and still get shot, they don't know what to tell their kids about police. Privilege is not that you didn't grow up poor or worked hard no one takes that from you. Privilege is you don't have to go through life fearful of losing you're life innocently on the sidewalk. Privilege is being able to ignore what is going on because it doesn't affect you. If you can sit there and be ok if someone were to ask you "Would you like to be treated as Black people?" and you have to think about it or stay silent or just no. Then you know deep down something is off and something isn't equal. Systemic racism is like the women in central park who chokes her dog and calls the police lying to them about being threatened by a black man. Those phone calls lead to cases like Floyd... No one is taking your privilege away or saying its bad but one life matters more than the other right now. Anyone with a brain knows "All lives matter" but until All lives matter equally we need to run to this portion in our community and aid them until All lived really do matter equally.. It good to have these conversations

Nodding along until there. I don't know what that means.

DodgyBloke said:

Systemic racism is being hand cuffed, tried, and executed on the side walk. There are some people that did a crime that absolutely should be arresting, they are not asking to not being arrested but they are asking no to be tried and convicted on the sidewalk. George Floyd was using "alleged" bad checks it wasn't even confirmed and he was treated that way and murdered. While you take Gabe Mcdonalds who shot 8 people in a church and they take him out to get something to eat. They want what we want, they want to grow old and live, a chance at opportunities, better learning, fair lending practices for businesses. You can sit perfectly still and still get shot, they don't know what to tell their kids about police. Privilege is not that you didn't grow up poor or worked hard no one takes that from you. Privilege is you don't have to go through life fearful of losing you're life innocently on the sidewalk. Privilege is being able to ignore what is going on because it doesn't affect you. If you can sit there and be ok if someone were to ask you "Would you like to be treated as Black people?" and you have to think about it or stay silent or just no. Then you know deep down something is off and something isn't equal. Systemic racism is like the women in central park who chokes her dog and calls the police lying to them about being threatened by a black man. Those phone calls lead to cases like Floyd... No one is taking your privilege away or saying its bad but one life matters more than the other right now. Anyone with a brain knows "All lives matter" but until All lives matter equally we need to run to this portion in our community and aid them until All lived really do matter equally.. It good to have these conversations

Lots of good points. Mostly agree with all of them, except your idea of privilege. What you and I call privilege are two very different things, and I think the misuse or overuse of that term actually detracts from your goals. Normal expectations of fair treatment from your government, including cops, is not "privilege." It's how the system is supposed to be. I understand that incidents like Floyd's cut against "normalcy" and undermine arguments that society is fair for black people compared to others. But when I hear "privilege" it's typically not expressed within a narrative of differential treatment, but thrown around as a racial insult, connoting that some people have it easy and didn't earn their station in life. This happens, I believe, because "intersectional theory" throws all injustices, real or perceived, into the same giant tub of "oppression" and must, at the end of the day, have a Chief Oppressor, which of course is the "inherently privileged" straight white male.

You can't solve any problem by stirring it into a brew of everyone else's problems, hoping to create critical mass for change. That will only lead to further hierarchical rankings, infighting and confusion. I believe it is much better to focus on a case method, such as the Trayvon Martin case, and now the George Floyd case where the facts really need to speak for themselves. I know Trayvon's case didn't end well, but I felt the country learned a lot about the danger and unfairness of racial profiling, and that George Zimmerman was a wannabe loser who stalked a kid for no good reason and got away with homicide because of technicalities.

Intersectional Theory fails to address "how we got here," and instead says the system is all wrong, and needs to be replaced with another system. Does that sound familiar? It should. It's Vintage Marxist Class Warfare rhetoric. I've spoken with two of my AA friends over the past week about these current events, and both are upset that Antifa and rioters are sabotaging the efforts to bring attention to police brutality. One of the two has been roughed up by cops and had a cousin die in King County Jail for lack of proper medical care, so he's quite familiar with police abuses and he's really pissed that message of the protests has been co-opted and will likely get confused and reflect poorly, and unfairly, on AAs.

I think I understand what you're saying fairly well and I get your point about the burden black men carry that white men typically don't. Message received. But labeling that as "privileged" ignores every personal aspect of a person's character, including their past, their struggles, their education, and their own suffering and failures, which are unknowable at first glance, and therefore an unfair label and stereotype that's as over-simplifying as just calling someone "Bad." Life is hard for everyone, and we've all got our crosses to bear. Is it heavier for AA men? Sometimes, and no, it isn't fair. But it's a lot less about racism, and a lot more about stereotyping and prejudice, fed by an unscrupulous, immoral media, and lots of so-called "allies" who enable and apologize for unacceptable behavior, leading it to go unchecked, ultimately raising crime rates and feeding already prevalent stereotypes that culminate in these fatal interactions.