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Systemic racism

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  • MelloDawg
    MelloDawg Member Posts: 6,917
    edited June 2020
    MikeDamone said:

    DodgyBloke said:

    Systemic racism is being hand cuffed, tried, and executed on the side walk. There are some people that did a crime that absolutely should be arresting, they are not asking to not being arrested but they are asking no to be tried and convicted on the sidewalk. George Floyd was using "alleged" bad checks it wasn't even confirmed and he was treated that way and murdered. While you take Gabe Mcdonalds who shot 8 people in a church and they take him out to get something to eat. They want what we want, they want to grow old and live, a chance at opportunities, better learning, fair lending practices for businesses. You can sit perfectly still and still get shot, they don't know what to tell their kids about police. Privilege is not that you didn't grow up poor or worked hard no one takes that from you. Privilege is you don't have to go through life fearful of losing you're life innocently on the sidewalk. Privilege is being able to ignore what is going on because it doesn't affect you. If you can sit there and be ok if someone were to ask you "Would you like to be treated as Black people?" and you have to think about it or stay silent or just no. Then you know deep down something is off and something isn't equal. Systemic racism is like the women in central park who chokes her dog and calls the police lying to them about being threatened by a black man. Those phone calls lead to cases like Floyd... No one is taking your privilege away or saying its bad but one life matters more than the other right now. Anyone with a brain knows "All lives matter" but until All lives matter equally we need to run to this portion in our community and aid them until All lived really do matter equally.. It good to have these conversations

    Well...this white guy didn’t fair so well yesterday. And 500+ a year like him.

    https://katu.com/news/local/gresham-officer-shoots-kills-man-in-southeast-portland

    http://www.portlandcopwatch.org/listofshootings.html
    But white people....
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  • MikeDamone
    MikeDamone Member Posts: 37,781
    MelloDawg said:

    MikeDamone said:

    DodgyBloke said:

    Systemic racism is being hand cuffed, tried, and executed on the side walk. There are some people that did a crime that absolutely should be arresting, they are not asking to not being arrested but they are asking no to be tried and convicted on the sidewalk. George Floyd was using "alleged" bad checks it wasn't even confirmed and he was treated that way and murdered. While you take Gabe Mcdonalds who shot 8 people in a church and they take him out to get something to eat. They want what we want, they want to grow old and live, a chance at opportunities, better learning, fair lending practices for businesses. You can sit perfectly still and still get shot, they don't know what to tell their kids about police. Privilege is not that you didn't grow up poor or worked hard no one takes that from you. Privilege is you don't have to go through life fearful of losing you're life innocently on the sidewalk. Privilege is being able to ignore what is going on because it doesn't affect you. If you can sit there and be ok if someone were to ask you "Would you like to be treated as Black people?" and you have to think about it or stay silent or just no. Then you know deep down something is off and something isn't equal. Systemic racism is like the women in central park who chokes her dog and calls the police lying to them about being threatened by a black man. Those phone calls lead to cases like Floyd... No one is taking your privilege away or saying its bad but one life matters more than the other right now. Anyone with a brain knows "All lives matter" but until All lives matter equally we need to run to this portion in our community and aid them until All lived really do matter equally.. It good to have these conversations

    Well...this white guy didn’t fair so well yesterday. And 500+ a year like him.

    https://katu.com/news/local/gresham-officer-shoots-kills-man-in-southeast-portland

    http://www.portlandcopwatch.org/listofshootings.html
    But white people....
    Not surprised you missed the point and context.
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  • creepycoug
    creepycoug Member Posts: 24,278
    TurdBomber said:

    DodgyBloke said:

    Systemic racism is being hand cuffed, tried, and executed on the side walk. There are some people that did a crime that absolutely should be arresting, they are not asking to not being arrested but they are asking no to be tried and convicted on the sidewalk. George Floyd was using "alleged" bad checks it wasn't even confirmed and he was treated that way and murdered. While you take Gabe Mcdonalds who shot 8 people in a church and they take him out to get something to eat. They want what we want, they want to grow old and live, a chance at opportunities, better learning, fair lending practices for businesses. You can sit perfectly still and still get shot, they don't know what to tell their kids about police. Privilege is not that you didn't grow up poor or worked hard no one takes that from you. Privilege is you don't have to go through life fearful of losing you're life innocently on the sidewalk. Privilege is being able to ignore what is going on because it doesn't affect you. If you can sit there and be ok if someone were to ask you "Would you like to be treated as Black people?" and you have to think about it or stay silent or just no. Then you know deep down something is off and something isn't equal. Systemic racism is like the women in central park who chokes her dog and calls the police lying to them about being threatened by a black man. Those phone calls lead to cases like Floyd... No one is taking your privilege away or saying its bad but one life matters more than the other right now. Anyone with a brain knows "All lives matter" but until All lives matter equally we need to run to this portion in our community and aid them until All lived really do matter equally.. It good to have these conversations

    Lots of good points. Mostly agree with all of them, except your idea of privilege. What you and I call privilege are two very different things, and I think the misuse or overuse of that term actually detracts from your goals. Normal expectations of fair treatment from your government, including cops, is not "privilege." It's how the system is supposed to be. I understand that incidents like Floyd's cut against "normalcy" and undermine arguments that society is fair for black people compared to others. But when I hear "privilege" it's typically not expressed within a narrative of differential treatment, but thrown around as a racial insult, connoting that some people have it easy and didn't earn their station in life. This happens, I believe, because "intersectional theory" throws all injustices, real or perceived, into the same giant tub of "oppression" and must, at the end of the day, have a Chief Oppressor, which of course is the "inherently privileged" straight white male.

    You can't solve any problem by stirring it into a brew of everyone else's problems, hoping to create critical mass for change. That will only lead to further hierarchical rankings, infighting and confusion. I believe it is much better to focus on a case method, such as the Trayvon Martin case, and now the George Floyd case where the facts really need to speak for themselves. I know Trayvon's case didn't end well, but I felt the country learned a lot about the danger and unfairness of racial profiling, and that George Zimmerman was a wannabe loser who stalked a kid for no good reason and got away with homicide because of technicalities.

    Intersectional Theory fails to address "how we got here," and instead says the system is all wrong, and needs to be replaced with another system. Does that sound familiar? It should. It's Vintage Marxist Class Warfare rhetoric. I've spoken with two of my AA friends over the past week about these current events, and both are upset that Antifa and rioters are sabotaging the efforts to bring attention to police brutality. One of the two has been roughed up by cops and had a cousin die in King County Jail for lack of proper medical care, so he's quite familiar with police abuses and he's really pissed that message of the protests has been co-opted and will likely get confused and reflect poorly, and unfairly, on AAs.

    I think I understand what you're saying fairly well and I get your point about the burden black men carry that white men typically don't. Message received. But labeling that as "privileged" ignores every personal aspect of a person's character, including their past, their struggles, their education, and their own suffering and failures, which are unknowable at first glance, and therefore an unfair label and stereotype that's as over-simplifying as just calling someone "Bad." Life is hard for everyone, and we've all got our crosses to bear. Is it heavier for AA men? Sometimes, and no, it isn't fair. But it's a lot less about racism, and a lot more about stereotyping and prejudice, fed by an unscrupulous, immoral media, and lots of so-called "allies" who enable and apologize for unacceptable behavior, leading it to go unchecked, ultimately raising crime rates and feeding already prevalent stereotypes that culminate in these fatal interactions.
    I'm not a big one on the "privilege" theory, or at the very least, the use of that word. And, as we are constantly reminded, words matter, so let's use them appropriately.

    Had a long debate with one of the kids last night. Of course, she just graduated from college, is on her way to grad school, and has long since surpassed me in terms of academic chops. But I told her to hold me beer, Poppa gets paid to parse and use words to his advantage, Poppa's been around a long tim, lived through some serious race riots in Miami where racial tension was for real, and generally have seen more life than has she, and this is a life thing, not an academic thing.
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  • SFGbob
    SFGbob Member Posts: 33,188
    edited June 2020
    I know Trayvon's case didn't end well, but I felt the country learned a lot about the danger and unfairness of racial profiling, and that George Zimmerman was a wannabe loser who stalked a kid for no good reason and got away with homicide because of technicalities.

    But for the fact the case had nothing to do with racial profiling, and by "technicalities" you mean every piece of psysical evidence presented in the case, including the eyewitness testimony, then yeah "technicalities."
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  • MelloDawg
    MelloDawg Member Posts: 6,917
    MikeDamone said:

    MelloDawg said:

    MikeDamone said:

    DodgyBloke said:

    Systemic racism is being hand cuffed, tried, and executed on the side walk. There are some people that did a crime that absolutely should be arresting, they are not asking to not being arrested but they are asking no to be tried and convicted on the sidewalk. George Floyd was using "alleged" bad checks it wasn't even confirmed and he was treated that way and murdered. While you take Gabe Mcdonalds who shot 8 people in a church and they take him out to get something to eat. They want what we want, they want to grow old and live, a chance at opportunities, better learning, fair lending practices for businesses. You can sit perfectly still and still get shot, they don't know what to tell their kids about police. Privilege is not that you didn't grow up poor or worked hard no one takes that from you. Privilege is you don't have to go through life fearful of losing you're life innocently on the sidewalk. Privilege is being able to ignore what is going on because it doesn't affect you. If you can sit there and be ok if someone were to ask you "Would you like to be treated as Black people?" and you have to think about it or stay silent or just no. Then you know deep down something is off and something isn't equal. Systemic racism is like the women in central park who chokes her dog and calls the police lying to them about being threatened by a black man. Those phone calls lead to cases like Floyd... No one is taking your privilege away or saying its bad but one life matters more than the other right now. Anyone with a brain knows "All lives matter" but until All lives matter equally we need to run to this portion in our community and aid them until All lived really do matter equally.. It good to have these conversations

    Well...this white guy didn’t fair so well yesterday. And 500+ a year like him.

    https://katu.com/news/local/gresham-officer-shoots-kills-man-in-southeast-portland

    http://www.portlandcopwatch.org/listofshootings.html
    But white people....
    Not surprised you missed the point and context.
    I didn’t, but we’re still cool, broski.
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  • MikeDamone
    MikeDamone Member Posts: 37,781
    edited June 2020
    MelloDawg said:

    MikeDamone said:

    MelloDawg said:

    MikeDamone said:

    DodgyBloke said:

    Systemic racism is being hand cuffed, tried, and executed on the side walk. There are some people that did a crime that absolutely should be arresting, they are not asking to not being arrested but they are asking no to be tried and convicted on the sidewalk. George Floyd was using "alleged" bad checks it wasn't even confirmed and he was treated that way and murdered. While you take Gabe Mcdonalds who shot 8 people in a church and they take him out to get something to eat. They want what we want, they want to grow old and live, a chance at opportunities, better learning, fair lending practices for businesses. You can sit perfectly still and still get shot, they don't know what to tell their kids about police. Privilege is not that you didn't grow up poor or worked hard no one takes that from you. Privilege is you don't have to go through life fearful of losing you're life innocently on the sidewalk. Privilege is being able to ignore what is going on because it doesn't affect you. If you can sit there and be ok if someone were to ask you "Would you like to be treated as Black people?" and you have to think about it or stay silent or just no. Then you know deep down something is off and something isn't equal. Systemic racism is like the women in central park who chokes her dog and calls the police lying to them about being threatened by a black man. Those phone calls lead to cases like Floyd... No one is taking your privilege away or saying its bad but one life matters more than the other right now. Anyone with a brain knows "All lives matter" but until All lives matter equally we need to run to this portion in our community and aid them until All lived really do matter equally.. It good to have these conversations

    Well...this white guy didn’t fair so well yesterday. And 500+ a year like him.

    https://katu.com/news/local/gresham-officer-shoots-kills-man-in-southeast-portland

    http://www.portlandcopwatch.org/listofshootings.html
    But white people....
    Not surprised you missed the point and context.
    I didn’t, but we’re still cool, broski.
    Disagree. It was in response to some cherry picking. Surprised you didn’t notice.

    But still love you!

    How are you holding up without MLS so far?
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  • TurdBomber
    TurdBomber Member Posts: 20,051 Standard Supporter
    SFGbob said:

    I know Trayvon's case didn't end well, but I felt the country learned a lot about the danger and unfairness of racial profiling, and that George Zimmerman was a wannabe loser who stalked a kid for no good reason and got away with homicide because of technicalities.

    But for the fact the case had nothing to do with racial profiling, and by "technicalities" you mean every piece of psysical evidence presented in the case, including the eyewitness testimony, then yeah "technicalities."

    And the fact that you or I would've probably acted the same way if some fucking loon was stalking one of us and refused to break off, as told by the cops. The case was over-charged by a simpleton prosecutor who mistook the media attention for momentum and evidence. That's the technicality. And the lesser important fact that dead victims can't testify.
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  • SFGbob
    SFGbob Member Posts: 33,188
    TurdBomber said:

    SFGbob said:

    I know Trayvon's case didn't end well, but I felt the country learned a lot about the danger and unfairness of racial profiling, and that George Zimmerman was a wannabe loser who stalked a kid for no good reason and got away with homicide because of technicalities.

    But for the fact the case had nothing to do with racial profiling, and by "technicalities" you mean every piece of psysical evidence presented in the case, including the eyewitness testimony, then yeah "technicalities."

    And the fact that you or I would've probably acted the same way if some fucking loon was stalking one of us and refused to break off, as told by the cops. The case was over-charged by a simpleton prosecutor who mistook the media attention for momentum and evidence. That's the technicality. And the lesser important fact that dead victims can't testify.

    You're entitled to your own opinion you're not entitled to your own facts.

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  • MelloDawg
    MelloDawg Member Posts: 6,917
    MikeDamone said:

    MelloDawg said:

    MikeDamone said:

    MelloDawg said:

    MikeDamone said:

    DodgyBloke said:

    Systemic racism is being hand cuffed, tried, and executed on the side walk. There are some people that did a crime that absolutely should be arresting, they are not asking to not being arrested but they are asking no to be tried and convicted on the sidewalk. George Floyd was using "alleged" bad checks it wasn't even confirmed and he was treated that way and murdered. While you take Gabe Mcdonalds who shot 8 people in a church and they take him out to get something to eat. They want what we want, they want to grow old and live, a chance at opportunities, better learning, fair lending practices for businesses. You can sit perfectly still and still get shot, they don't know what to tell their kids about police. Privilege is not that you didn't grow up poor or worked hard no one takes that from you. Privilege is you don't have to go through life fearful of losing you're life innocently on the sidewalk. Privilege is being able to ignore what is going on because it doesn't affect you. If you can sit there and be ok if someone were to ask you "Would you like to be treated as Black people?" and you have to think about it or stay silent or just no. Then you know deep down something is off and something isn't equal. Systemic racism is like the women in central park who chokes her dog and calls the police lying to them about being threatened by a black man. Those phone calls lead to cases like Floyd... No one is taking your privilege away or saying its bad but one life matters more than the other right now. Anyone with a brain knows "All lives matter" but until All lives matter equally we need to run to this portion in our community and aid them until All lived really do matter equally.. It good to have these conversations

    Well...this white guy didn’t fair so well yesterday. And 500+ a year like him.

    https://katu.com/news/local/gresham-officer-shoots-kills-man-in-southeast-portland

    http://www.portlandcopwatch.org/listofshootings.html
    But white people....
    Not surprised you missed the point and context.
    I didn’t, but we’re still cool, broski.
    Disagree. It was in response to some cherry picking. Surprised you didn’t notice.

    But still love you!

    How are you holding up without MLS so far?
    So far, so good. The Sounders app has some great content from the historical MLS Cup runs, updates on training. They’ve been great!
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  • WestlinnDuck
    WestlinnDuck Member Posts: 17,905 Standard Supporter
    Trayvon wasn't killed because of white privilege or stalking. He died because he was a POS using extreme force on what he thought was a helpless victim. Zimmerman was free to follow whomever he wanted in his neighborhood. Trayvon was made to feel special and hadn't had to face the consequences of prior crimes. Trademark came back after making it home to look for Zimmerman.
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