Systemic racism
Comments
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It’s systemic and institutionalized. So it’s a societal problem that no individual could possibly overcome.
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You're not as rich and successful as Bill Gates, therefore racism. If you are on the bad end of any statistical category, be it household income, or net worth it has to be on account of white racism. Never mind that Asians on average have higher incomes and net worth than whites.
Blacks have higher incarceration rates than whites. It can't be on account of the fact that blacks commit more crime, it has to be racism. -
Meanwhile, the only government backed discrimination based upon skin color that I know of discriminates against whites and Asians and benefits blacks and Hispanics.MikeDamone said:It’s systemic and institutionalized. So it’s a societal problem that no individual could possibly overcome.
Could it be that the very same behavioral issues that would prompt you to engage in looting and robbery, greater rates of out of wedlock births, higher high school drop out rates, and greater representation in nearly every other social ill you can think of might also be responsible for lower household income and net worth?
Could there possibly be a connection or is white racism the unifying theory for all of this? -
I'm not black either, so I can only forward what actual black people have said. Here's a perspective from one of our incoming recruits. As someone who isn't black, I don't encounter any of the constant stressors and anxieties that he's outlining. That's what people mean when they say "systemic racism" and "white privilege".
You can always choose to not believe him, or say it's all overblown, but you shouldn't be confused about what the argument is.
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Could it be that the crime rate and affirmative action have anything to do with any of those feelings?
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Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.
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That, and a laundry list of other factors. Anyone telling you it's one thing and not the other is either uninformed or dishonest. If it could fit on a Herman Cain pizza box it'd be fixed by now.SFGbob said:Could it be that the crime rate and affirmative action have anything to do with any of those feelings?
At the end of the day, these are unique problems that a large number of black teenagers (and adults) have to deal with, through no fault of their own. And that's tragic. -
Do mean the severe sentencing for crack that the Black Congressional Caucus called for back in the 80s?WilburHooksHands said:Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.
I recall black democrats calling Reagan a racist because he didn't do enough to fight the crack epidemic. -
Seems like that's starting to be addressed finally.WilburHooksHands said:Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/3100-inmates-to-be-released-as-trump-administration-implements-criminal-justice-reform/2019/07/19/7ed0daf6-a9a4-11e9-a3a6-ab670962db05_story.html?outputType=amp
Biden and Clinton did a lot of damage with the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 that is taking a while to undo. -
So, if your store was having a shoplifting problem that was caused by young black men, is your following a young black man systemic racism? You know who plays the knockout game? I'd be watchful around young black men on a public street. A young black recruit at a Pac 12 school has a lot going for him. Tough to see how systemic racism has hurt him.
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I have a 19 year old black son that is about 6'2'' and 215 pounds. I've seen the reaction he gets from some people when we're out in public. He has actually told me about how his presence can intimidate some white people.GreenRiverGatorz said:
That, and a laundry list of other factors. Anyone telling you it's one thing and not the other is either uninformed or dishonest. If it could fit on a Herman Cain pizza box it'd be fixed by now.SFGbob said:Could it be that the crime rate and affirmative action have anything to do with any of those feelings?
At the end of the day, these are unique problems that a large number of black teenagers (and adults) have to deal with, through no fault of their own. And that's tragic.
But I've also dealt with white teachers who have held him to lower academic and behavioral standards also because of his black skin. -
Have a "Rock You Like A Herman Cain" campaign shirt, then pop off.GreenRiverGatorz said:
That, and a laundry list of other factors. Anyone telling you it's one thing and not the other is either uninformed or dishonest. If it could fit on a Herman Cain pizza box it'd be fixed by now.SFGbob said:Could it be that the crime rate and affirmative action have anything to do with any of those feelings?
At the end of the day, these are unique problems that a large number of black teenagers (and adults) have to deal with, through no fault of their own. And that's tragic. -
Here is some more systemic racism. I blame white republicans. This is where I have trouble with the people who tell me Black Lives Matter. They are pretty damn selective about which black lives matter. Great last weekend in Chicago.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/6/1/21275944/chicago-weekend-shootings-most-violent-weekend-2020-may-29-june-1
Nineteen people were killed and at least 63 others were wounded by gun violence in Chicago’s most violent weekend of the year so far, which also saw widespread protests, riots and looting throughout the city in the wake of the Minneapolis police killing of George Floyd.
More than half of the weekend’s victims were shot on Sunday as the city reeled from violent protests Saturday night that led to hundreds of arrests and the implementation of a curfew.
The weekend’s toll surpasses the tally from the same weekend in 2019, when 52 people were wounded — 8 fatally — in citywide gun violence. -
And those white teachers did him no favors.SFGbob said:
I have a 19 year old black son that is about 6'2'' and 215 pounds. I've seen the reaction he gets from some people when we're out in public. He has actually told me about how his presence can intimidate some white people.GreenRiverGatorz said:
That, and a laundry list of other factors. Anyone telling you it's one thing and not the other is either uninformed or dishonest. If it could fit on a Herman Cain pizza box it'd be fixed by now.SFGbob said:Could it be that the crime rate and affirmative action have anything to do with any of those feelings?
At the end of the day, these are unique problems that a large number of black teenagers (and adults) have to deal with, through no fault of their own. And that's tragic.
But I've also dealt with white teachers who have held him to lower academic and behavioral standards also because of his black skin. -
Well he told you how. You're free to not believe him.WestlinnDuck said:So, if your store was having a shoplifting problem that was caused by young black men, is your following a young black man systemic racism? You know who plays the knockout game? I'd be watchful around young black men on a public street. A young black recruit at a Pac 12 school has a lot going for him. Tough to see how systemic racism has hurt him.
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Thats a good thing and at least addressing getting people out, but if its based on the original sentence there is still some built in disparity. Prison profiteering and corrupt judges are going to keep it all going.MikeDamone said:
Seems like that's starting to be addressed finally.WilburHooksHands said:Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/3100-inmates-to-be-released-as-trump-administration-implements-criminal-justice-reform/2019/07/19/7ed0daf6-a9a4-11e9-a3a6-ab670962db05_story.html?outputType=amp
Biden and Clinton did a lot of damage with the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 that is taking a while to undo. -
I believe Savy. But the same genetics that gave him Black skin and the problems he described also gave him rare size and athletic talent that combined with his hard work gives him unlimited opportunity going forward.
Would he trade with a 5 foot 10 130 high school senior who is white?
I agree we try too many one size fits all fixes. Zero tolerance is lazy and stupid. Make calls based on the individual.
America actually discusses race quite a bit. Since I was a youngin. Sometimes its honest sometimes it is not. It is still tough to be a young black male and its better than ever. Everyone is a victim of something or they choose to be a victor. That crosses all races. -
No it's the right! They did it all!!!!!!!MikeDamone said:
Seems like that's starting to be addressed finally.WilburHooksHands said:Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/3100-inmates-to-be-released-as-trump-administration-implements-criminal-justice-reform/2019/07/19/7ed0daf6-a9a4-11e9-a3a6-ab670962db05_story.html?outputType=amp
Biden and Clinton did a lot of damage with the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 that is taking a while to undo.
That and America has never had a black president because racism!!!!!!!!! -
I said it's a good start. The work is ongoing. That's almost 30 years of a bad law to unpack. But it's being addressed. It does morR than just get people out. How do most people not know about this bill?WilburHooksHands said:
Thats a good thing and at least addressing getting people out, but if its based on the original sentence there is still some built in disparity. Prison profiteering and corrupt judges are going to keep it all going.MikeDamone said:
Seems like that's starting to be addressed finally.WilburHooksHands said:Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/3100-inmates-to-be-released-as-trump-administration-implements-criminal-justice-reform/2019/07/19/7ed0daf6-a9a4-11e9-a3a6-ab670962db05_story.html?outputType=amp
Biden and Clinton did a lot of damage with the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 that is taking a while to undo.
What the First Step Act does
Here are the major provisions of the
First Step Act:
The bill would make retroactive the reforms enacted by the Fair Sentencing Act of 2010, which reduced the disparity between crack and powder cocaine sentences at the federal level. This could affect nearly 2,600 federal inmates, according to the Marshall Project.
The bill would take several steps to ease mandatory minimum sentences under federal law. It would expand the “safety valve” that judges can use to avoid handing down mandatory minimum sentences. It would ease a “three strikes” rule so people with three or more convictions, including for drug offenses, automatically get 25 years instead of life, among other changes. It would restrict the current practice of stacking gun charges against drug offenders to add possibly decades to prison sentences. All of these changes would lead to shorter prison sentences in the future.
The bill would increase “good time credits” that inmates can earn. Inmates who avoid a disciplinary record can currently get credits of up to 47 days per year incarcerated. The bill increases the cap to 54, allowing well-behaved inmates to cut their prison sentence by an additional week for each year they’re incarcerated. The change applies retroactively, which could allow some prisoners — as many as 4,000 — to qualify for release the day that the bill goes into effect.
The bill would allow inmates to get “earned time credits” by participating in more vocational and rehabilitative programs. Those credits would allow them to be released early to halfway houses or home confinement. Not only could this mitigate prison overcrowding, but the hope is that the education programs will reduce the likelihood that an inmate will commit another crime once released and, as a result, reduce both crime and incarceration in the long term. (There’s research showing that education programs do reduce recidivism.)
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Blacks commit way over 40 perent of crime. I think it might be low 50s. I don't have time to look it up. I suppose it's somehow white people's fault though. Oppression and shit.WilburHooksHands said:Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.
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later guysFire_Marshall_Bill said:
Blacks commit way over 40 perent of crime. I think it might be low 50s. I don't have time to look it up. I suppose it's somehow white people's fault though. Oppression and shit.WilburHooksHands said:Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.
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The argument is they get charged more severely for less serious crimes or charges when others would be not charged at all. Also harsher sentences for the same crimes. I think the harsher sentence part is true.Fire_Marshall_Bill said:
Blacks commit way over 40 perent of crime. I think it might be low 50s. I don't have time to look it up. I suppose it's somehow white people's fault though. Oppression and shit.WilburHooksHands said:Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.
But what's also true is black men commit over 50% of all homicides. That stat can't be skewed by DA and judges. -
Usually runs around 53% of violent crime. Not sure on overall crime numbers.Fire_Marshall_Bill said:
Blacks commit way over 40 perent of crime. I think it might be low 50s. I don't have time to look it up. I suppose it's somehow white people's fault though. Oppression and shit.WilburHooksHands said:Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.
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Take out the drug violations which you can argue are more stringently enforced on black people and focus only on homicide and other violent crimes with a clear victim and a clear perp. You have about 6% of the population committing nearly half of all the violent crimes.Sledog said:
Usually runs around 53% of violent crime. Not sure on overall crime numbers.Fire_Marshall_Bill said:
Blacks commit way over 40 perent of crime. I think it might be low 50s. I don't have time to look it up. I suppose it's somehow white people's fault though. Oppression and shit.WilburHooksHands said:Mass incarceration and disproportionately severe sentencing is a good example of systematic racism. The “criminal justice system,” as absolutely everyone refers to it by, is a prime example.
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I agree with this. I also believe the bolded part. I don't know why black men commit such a disproportionate share of violent crime, and I suspect nobody in this thread does either.RaceBannon said:I believe Savy. But the same genetics that gave him Black skin and the problems he described also gave him rare size and athletic talent that combined with his hard work gives him unlimited opportunity going forward.
Would he trade with a 5 foot 10 130 high school senior who is white?
I agree we try too many one size fits all fixes. Zero tolerance is lazy and stupid. Make calls based on the individual.
America actually discusses race quite a bit. Since I was a youngin. Sometimes its honest sometimes it is not. It is still tough to be a young black male and its better than ever. Everyone is a victim of something or they choose to be a victor. That crosses all races.
So we've eliminated the role of racism ... because we're in the Tug. Ok, stipulated (for you dullards, that means don't keep arguing the point; you won).
The question that remains is, why? Bob says too many illegitimate births and not enough Dads. Ok, let's stipulate that, too (because it's basically true). If that's a big cause (debatable but plausible), why? Why is the black experience so often that of a broken home and poverty, etc. etc.?
Yeah, Smalls has opportunity because he won the genetic lottery. But most people don't win lotteries ... of any kind. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a lottery.
Westlinn says he'll follow the black kid in the store because statistics. Ok, understood. Does that have an effect on that black kid? That collective experience? Seems like it plays out in contact with the police here and there.
I don't like the race game anymore than the next guy. What's the real driver? Maybe the biggest question: does the Tug think that the black community shouldn't be pissed off? Or, rather, should all of us be pissed off about police brutality? FWIW, the latter is where I lean. We need the cops. But we need them to do a better job sifting through their ranks to sort out the murder boners (props to whomever came up with that one). -
America had a fairly large middle class black population years ago, I suggest you look at the cause of it's destruction. You'll find many of the answers.creepycoug said:
I agree with this. I also believe the bolded part. I don't know why black men commit such a disproportionate share of violent crime, and I suspect nobody in this thread does either.RaceBannon said:I believe Savy. But the same genetics that gave him Black skin and the problems he described also gave him rare size and athletic talent that combined with his hard work gives him unlimited opportunity going forward.
Would he trade with a 5 foot 10 130 high school senior who is white?
I agree we try too many one size fits all fixes. Zero tolerance is lazy and stupid. Make calls based on the individual.
America actually discusses race quite a bit. Since I was a youngin. Sometimes its honest sometimes it is not. It is still tough to be a young black male and its better than ever. Everyone is a victim of something or they choose to be a victor. That crosses all races.
So we've eliminated the role of racism ... because we're in the Tug. Ok, stipulated (for you dullards, that means don't keep arguing the point; you won).
The question that remains is, why? Bob says too many illegitimate births and not enough Dads. Ok, let's stipulate that, too (because it's basically true). If that's a big cause (debatable but plausible), why? Why is the black experience so often that of a broken home and poverty, etc. etc.?
Yeah, Smalls has opportunity because he won the genetic lottery. But most people don't win lotteries ... of any kind. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a lottery.
Westlinn says he'll follow the black kid in the store because statistics. Ok, understood. Does that have an effect on that black kid? That collective experience? Seems like it plays out in contact with the police here and there.
I don't like the race game anymore than the next guy. What's the real driver? Maybe the biggest question: does the Tug think that the black community shouldn't be pissed off? Or, rather, should all of us be pissed off about police brutality? FWIW, the latter is where I lean. We need the cops. But we need them to do a better job sifting through their ranks to sort out the murder boners (props to whomever came up with that one). -
I think the “why” is the disintegration of the family. This applies to all races. Blacks have a higher incidence of single parent or no parent households than whites and especially Asians (who seem to do very well despite being “people of color). I wonder what percentage people of all races who commit violent crimes come from a similar background. People also might blame poverty caused by racism. I would be more inclined to blame poverty based on the disintegration of the family and a failing education system. Those to things seem to lead to poverty regardless of race.creepycoug said:
I agree with this. I also believe the bolded part. I don't know why black men commit such a disproportionate share of violent crime, and I suspect nobody in this thread does either.RaceBannon said:I believe Savy. But the same genetics that gave him Black skin and the problems he described also gave him rare size and athletic talent that combined with his hard work gives him unlimited opportunity going forward.
Would he trade with a 5 foot 10 130 high school senior who is white?
I agree we try too many one size fits all fixes. Zero tolerance is lazy and stupid. Make calls based on the individual.
America actually discusses race quite a bit. Since I was a youngin. Sometimes its honest sometimes it is not. It is still tough to be a young black male and its better than ever. Everyone is a victim of something or they choose to be a victor. That crosses all races.
So we've eliminated the role of racism ... because we're in the Tug. Ok, stipulated (for you dullards, that means don't keep arguing the point; you won).
The question that remains is, why? Bob says too many illegitimate births and not enough Dads. Ok, let's stipulate that, too (because it's basically true). If that's a big cause (debatable but plausible), why? Why is the black experience so often that of a broken home and poverty, etc. etc.?
Yeah, Smalls has opportunity because he won the genetic lottery. But most people don't win lotteries ... of any kind. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a lottery.
Westlinn says he'll follow the black kid in the store because statistics. Ok, understood. Does that have an effect on that black kid? That collective experience? Seems like it plays out in contact with the police here and there.
I don't like the race game anymore than the next guy. What's the real driver? Maybe the biggest question: does the Tug think that the black community shouldn't be pissed off? Or, rather, should all of us be pissed off about police brutality? FWIW, the latter is where I lean. We need the cops. But we need them to do a better job sifting through their ranks to sort out the murder boners (props to whomever came up with that one).
The “Great Society” policies of the late sixties was a real winner....
Of course you all remember HondoFS mocking this that I want to “Force my beliefs” to be taught in school. JFC he was a retard. -
I don't think this is racism. this is justice!
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Yep, I think the family issue is plausible. But why, then, did that hit the black community so much harder than the others? Why are more black children born out of wedlock or otherwise don't live in an intact family with two parents? What drives that?MikeDamone said:
I think the “why” is the disintegration of the family. This applies to all races. Blacks have a higher incidence of single parent or no parent households than whites and especially Asians (who seem to do very well despite being “people of color). I wonder what percentage people of all races who commit violent crimes come from a similar background. People also might blame poverty caused by racism. I would be more inclined to blame poverty based on the disintegration of the family and a failing education system. Those to things seem to lead to poverty regardless of race.creepycoug said:
I agree with this. I also believe the bolded part. I don't know why black men commit such a disproportionate share of violent crime, and I suspect nobody in this thread does either.RaceBannon said:I believe Savy. But the same genetics that gave him Black skin and the problems he described also gave him rare size and athletic talent that combined with his hard work gives him unlimited opportunity going forward.
Would he trade with a 5 foot 10 130 high school senior who is white?
I agree we try too many one size fits all fixes. Zero tolerance is lazy and stupid. Make calls based on the individual.
America actually discusses race quite a bit. Since I was a youngin. Sometimes its honest sometimes it is not. It is still tough to be a young black male and its better than ever. Everyone is a victim of something or they choose to be a victor. That crosses all races.
So we've eliminated the role of racism ... because we're in the Tug. Ok, stipulated (for you dullards, that means don't keep arguing the point; you won).
The question that remains is, why? Bob says too many illegitimate births and not enough Dads. Ok, let's stipulate that, too (because it's basically true). If that's a big cause (debatable but plausible), why? Why is the black experience so often that of a broken home and poverty, etc. etc.?
Yeah, Smalls has opportunity because he won the genetic lottery. But most people don't win lotteries ... of any kind. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a lottery.
Westlinn says he'll follow the black kid in the store because statistics. Ok, understood. Does that have an effect on that black kid? That collective experience? Seems like it plays out in contact with the police here and there.
I don't like the race game anymore than the next guy. What's the real driver? Maybe the biggest question: does the Tug think that the black community shouldn't be pissed off? Or, rather, should all of us be pissed off about police brutality? FWIW, the latter is where I lean. We need the cops. But we need them to do a better job sifting through their ranks to sort out the murder boners (props to whomever came up with that one).
The “Great Society” policies of the late sixties was a real winner.... -
Or you can just spit it out. I'm lazy.Sledog said:
America had a fairly large middle class black population years ago, I suggest you look at the cause of it's destruction. You'll find many of the answers.creepycoug said:
I agree with this. I also believe the bolded part. I don't know why black men commit such a disproportionate share of violent crime, and I suspect nobody in this thread does either.RaceBannon said:I believe Savy. But the same genetics that gave him Black skin and the problems he described also gave him rare size and athletic talent that combined with his hard work gives him unlimited opportunity going forward.
Would he trade with a 5 foot 10 130 high school senior who is white?
I agree we try too many one size fits all fixes. Zero tolerance is lazy and stupid. Make calls based on the individual.
America actually discusses race quite a bit. Since I was a youngin. Sometimes its honest sometimes it is not. It is still tough to be a young black male and its better than ever. Everyone is a victim of something or they choose to be a victor. That crosses all races.
So we've eliminated the role of racism ... because we're in the Tug. Ok, stipulated (for you dullards, that means don't keep arguing the point; you won).
The question that remains is, why? Bob says too many illegitimate births and not enough Dads. Ok, let's stipulate that, too (because it's basically true). If that's a big cause (debatable but plausible), why? Why is the black experience so often that of a broken home and poverty, etc. etc.?
Yeah, Smalls has opportunity because he won the genetic lottery. But most people don't win lotteries ... of any kind. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a lottery.
Westlinn says he'll follow the black kid in the store because statistics. Ok, understood. Does that have an effect on that black kid? That collective experience? Seems like it plays out in contact with the police here and there.
I don't like the race game anymore than the next guy. What's the real driver? Maybe the biggest question: does the Tug think that the black community shouldn't be pissed off? Or, rather, should all of us be pissed off about police brutality? FWIW, the latter is where I lean. We need the cops. But we need them to do a better job sifting through their ranks to sort out the murder boners (props to whomever came up with that one).
