A coup to remove Russian President Vladimir Putin is underway and it is "impossible to stop it," according to Ukrainian Major Gen. Kyrylo Budanov, the country's military intelligence chief.
The defeat of Russia in Ukraine, Budanov explained to Sky News in an exclusive interview, will not only lead to Putin being removed, but also to disintegration.
"It will eventually lead to the change of leadership of the Russian Federation," Budanov said. "This process has already been launched, and they are moving into that way."
And when the interviewer pressed if that means a coup of Putin is underway, Budanov replied: "Yes. They are moving in this way, and it is impossible to stop it."
He also told the interviewer, Putin is in a "very bad psychological and physical condition, and he is very sick," as he reportedly has cancer and other illnesses.
Budanov rejected suggestions he is spreading propaganda with such claims about Putin.
"It's my job; it's my work," he told Sky News. "If not me, who will know this?"
Great, another excuse to continue this crap so that our dear leaders can fulfill their fantasy of Putin being removed from power. Be careful what you wish for.
A coup to remove Russian President Vladimir Putin is underway and it is "impossible to stop it," according to Ukrainian Major Gen. Kyrylo Budanov, the country's military intelligence chief.
The defeat of Russia in Ukraine, Budanov explained to Sky News in an exclusive interview, will not only lead to Putin being removed, but also to disintegration.
"It will eventually lead to the change of leadership of the Russian Federation," Budanov said. "This process has already been launched, and they are moving into that way."
And when the interviewer pressed if that means a coup of Putin is underway, Budanov replied: "Yes. They are moving in this way, and it is impossible to stop it."
He also told the interviewer, Putin is in a "very bad psychological and physical condition, and he is very sick," as he reportedly has cancer and other illnesses.
Budanov rejected suggestions he is spreading propaganda with such claims about Putin.
"It's my job; it's my work," he told Sky News. "If not me, who will know this?"
Over 50 former intelligence officials call the Hunter Biden laptop a classic Russian disinfo campaign.
This probably deserves Owen .... but it's integral to this conversation
The best interview I've heard on UKR to date. It should be on everyone's list. It's that important.
Dr. Peter Pry is the world's leading expert on WMDs and EMPs. Spent a major part of his career at the CIA analyzing - wait for it - Russian & Soviet nuclear strategy, operational plans and doctrine.
Couple main thoughts: - He echoes the other independent analysts that this is a conflict that never should have happened and we provoked it; - He said we need to put an end to the asafp. We are so close to Armageddon that it's almost unfathomable. The way we keep escalating is suicide; - He is more concerned by what Putin HASN'T done. He thinks we have really only seen the tip of the spear - regardless what the media says; - He is the first person I've heard in any media to mention MY thought on the matter [pats self on back] that we need to be working together with Russia and Putin for WHEN China makes their move. He knows Putin recognizes this and is the main reason he hasn't yet escalated to bio, chemical, nuclear. Quote: the Russians are chess players; - if nuclear weapons start flying, we CAN'T beat RUS. Emphasis on can't, ie unable. RUS have better tactical technology (smaller, faster strike capabilities). ie Putin could wipe out the port of Long Beach before we knew what happened.
I'll listen later today but can you expand on his thoughts that Putin and Russia know there will be a day when they too have to face what China has planned? TYFYS;-)
This probably deserves Owen .... but it's integral to this conversation
The best interview I've heard on UKR to date. It should be on everyone's list. It's that important.
Dr. Peter Pry is the world's leading expert on WMDs and EMPs. Spent a major part of his career at the CIA analyzing - wait for it - Russian & Soviet nuclear strategy, operational plans and doctrine.
Couple main thoughts: - He echoes the other independent analysts that this is a conflict that never should have happened and we provoked it; - He said we need to put an end to the asafp. We are so close to Armageddon that it's almost unfathomable. The way we keep escalating is suicide; - He is more concerned by what Putin HASN'T done. He thinks we have really only seen the tip of the spear - regardless what the media says; - He is the first person I've heard in any media to mention MY thought on the matter [pats self on back] that we need to be working together with Russia and Putin for WHEN China makes their move. He knows Putin recognizes this and is the main reason he hasn't yet escalated to bio, chemical, nuclear. Quote: the Russians are chess players; - if nuclear weapons start flying, we CAN'T beat RUS. Emphasis on can't, ie unable. RUS have better tactical technology (smaller, faster strike capabilities). ie Putin could wipe out the port of Long Beach before we knew what happened.
I'll listen later today but can you expand on his thoughts that Putin and Russia know there will be a day when they too have to face what China has planned? TYFYS;-)
Regarding China ...
When this broke out and we were escalating vs RUS, one of the main reasons I thought this was foolish was on the expectations China would move to take Taiwan sooner than later. If and when this happens, we will NEED Russia for leverage, etc against China.
Pry comes at it from the other direction. It's more of a macro issue as China is a power still on the rise. Currently RUS and China are in a military and economic block against the West. However Putin seems to understand China in the 'Chris Brown these hoes ain't loyal' context. When China moves to ascend the throne as THE world power, he understands he will need the US as an ally.
Pry also thinks that WHEN China takes back Taiwan, there aint a god damn thing we? are going to do about it. Heart warming to be sure.
This probably deserves Owen .... but it's integral to this conversation
The best interview I've heard on UKR to date. It should be on everyone's list. It's that important.
Dr. Peter Pry is the world's leading expert on WMDs and EMPs. Spent a major part of his career at the CIA analyzing - wait for it - Russian & Soviet nuclear strategy, operational plans and doctrine.
Couple main thoughts: - He echoes the other independent analysts that this is a conflict that never should have happened and we provoked it; - He said we need to put an end to the asafp. We are so close to Armageddon that it's almost unfathomable. The way we keep escalating is suicide; - He is more concerned by what Putin HASN'T done. He thinks we have really only seen the tip of the spear - regardless what the media says; - He is the first person I've heard in any media to mention MY thought on the matter [pats self on back] that we need to be working together with Russia and Putin for WHEN China makes their move. He knows Putin recognizes this and is the main reason he hasn't yet escalated to bio, chemical, nuclear. Quote: the Russians are chess players; - if nuclear weapons start flying, we CAN'T beat RUS. Emphasis on can't, ie unable. RUS have better tactical technology (smaller, faster strike capabilities). ie Putin could wipe out the port of Long Beach before we knew what happened.
I'll listen later today but can you expand on his thoughts that Putin and Russia know there will be a day when they too have to face what China has planned? TYFYS;-)
Regarding China ...
When this broke out and we were escalating vs RUS, one of the main reasons I thought this was foolish was on the expectations China would move to take Taiwan sooner than later. If and when this happens, we will NEED Russia for leverage, etc against China.
Pry comes at it from the other direction. It's more of a macro issue as China is a power still on the rise. Currently RUS and China are in a military and economic block against the West. However Putin seems to understand China in the 'Chris Brown these hoes ain't loyal' context. When China moves to ascend the throne as THE world power, he understands he will need the US as an ally.
Pry also thinks that WHEN China takes back Taiwan, there aint a god damn thing we? are going to do about it. Heart warming to be sure.
Lol the CCP is going to be lucky to make it out of the next 5 years let alone ascend to The super power of the world.
Real and systemic chickens are coming home to roost for them right now.
The only way they survive is by turning into the new hermit kingdom which mutually excludes super power status. Think "great leap forward" but worse and on steroids.
What isn't mutually exclusive is the US descending into civil war, anarchy, or authoritarianism. We? Are perfectly capable of tearing ourselves down.
This probably deserves Owen .... but it's integral to this conversation
The best interview I've heard on UKR to date. It should be on everyone's list. It's that important.
Dr. Peter Pry is the world's leading expert on WMDs and EMPs. Spent a major part of his career at the CIA analyzing - wait for it - Russian & Soviet nuclear strategy, operational plans and doctrine.
Couple main thoughts: - He echoes the other independent analysts that this is a conflict that never should have happened and we provoked it; - He said we need to put an end to the asafp. We are so close to Armageddon that it's almost unfathomable. The way we keep escalating is suicide; - He is more concerned by what Putin HASN'T done. He thinks we have really only seen the tip of the spear - regardless what the media says; - He is the first person I've heard in any media to mention MY thought on the matter [pats self on back] that we need to be working together with Russia and Putin for WHEN China makes their move. He knows Putin recognizes this and is the main reason he hasn't yet escalated to bio, chemical, nuclear. Quote: the Russians are chess players; - if nuclear weapons start flying, we CAN'T beat RUS. Emphasis on can't, ie unable. RUS have better tactical technology (smaller, faster strike capabilities). ie Putin could wipe out the port of Long Beach before we knew what happened.
I'll listen later today but can you expand on his thoughts that Putin and Russia know there will be a day when they too have to face what China has planned? TYFYS;-)
Regarding China ...
When this broke out and we were escalating vs RUS, one of the main reasons I thought this was foolish was on the expectations China would move to take Taiwan sooner than later. If and when this happens, we will NEED Russia for leverage, etc against China.
Pry comes at it from the other direction. It's more of a macro issue as China is a power still on the rise. Currently RUS and China are in a military and economic block against the West. However Putin seems to understand China in the 'Chris Brown these hoes ain't loyal' context. When China moves to ascend the throne as THE world power, he understands he will need the US as an ally.
Pry also thinks that WHEN China takes back Taiwan, there aint a god damn thing we? are going to do about it. Heart warming to be sure.
Lol the CCP is going to be lucky to make it out of the next 5 years let alone ascend to The super power of the world.
Real and systemic chickens are coming home to roost for them right now.
The only way they survive is by turning into the new hermit kingdom which mutually excludes super power status. Think "great leap forward" but worse and on steroids.
What isn't mutually exclusive is the US descending into civil war, anarchy, or authoritarianism. We? Are perfectly capable of tearing ourselves down.
Why would their internal problems hinder them from doing whatever they want to do? This is the exact threat of Communism. They could and probably will begin slaughtering millions and millions of their own citizens if that's what it takes. What do you mean by survive? Who is going to stop them? I hope you're right and I absolutely agree with your sentiment in regard to what is destroying our own country.
This probably deserves Owen .... but it's integral to this conversation
The best interview I've heard on UKR to date. It should be on everyone's list. It's that important.
Dr. Peter Pry is the world's leading expert on WMDs and EMPs. Spent a major part of his career at the CIA analyzing - wait for it - Russian & Soviet nuclear strategy, operational plans and doctrine.
Couple main thoughts: - He echoes the other independent analysts that this is a conflict that never should have happened and we provoked it; - He said we need to put an end to the asafp. We are so close to Armageddon that it's almost unfathomable. The way we keep escalating is suicide; - He is more concerned by what Putin HASN'T done. He thinks we have really only seen the tip of the spear - regardless what the media says; - He is the first person I've heard in any media to mention MY thought on the matter [pats self on back] that we need to be working together with Russia and Putin for WHEN China makes their move. He knows Putin recognizes this and is the main reason he hasn't yet escalated to bio, chemical, nuclear. Quote: the Russians are chess players; - if nuclear weapons start flying, we CAN'T beat RUS. Emphasis on can't, ie unable. RUS have better tactical technology (smaller, faster strike capabilities). ie Putin could wipe out the port of Long Beach before we knew what happened.
I'll listen later today but can you expand on his thoughts that Putin and Russia know there will be a day when they too have to face what China has planned? TYFYS;-)
Regarding China ...
When this broke out and we were escalating vs RUS, one of the main reasons I thought this was foolish was on the expectations China would move to take Taiwan sooner than later. If and when this happens, we will NEED Russia for leverage, etc against China.
Pry comes at it from the other direction. It's more of a macro issue as China is a power still on the rise. Currently RUS and China are in a military and economic block against the West. However Putin seems to understand China in the 'Chris Brown these hoes ain't loyal' context. When China moves to ascend the throne as THE world power, he understands he will need the US as an ally.
Pry also thinks that WHEN China takes back Taiwan, there aint a god damn thing we? are going to do about it. Heart warming to be sure.
Lol the CCP is going to be lucky to make it out of the next 5 years let alone ascend to The super power of the world.
Real and systemic chickens are coming home to roost for them right now.
The only way they survive is by turning into the new hermit kingdom which mutually excludes super power status. Think "great leap forward" but worse and on steroids.
What isn't mutually exclusive is the US descending into civil war, anarchy, or authoritarianism. We? Are perfectly capable of tearing ourselves down.
I used to think this, but they have the rest of the world so over a barrel and they have such a tight control of their own citizenry I don’t believe it anymore. Hell…they are literally interning and murdering an entire race of people and the rest of the world isn’t saying a world and idiots like Lebron are finding ways to excuse it.
This probably deserves Owen .... but it's integral to this conversation
The best interview I've heard on UKR to date. It should be on everyone's list. It's that important.
Dr. Peter Pry is the world's leading expert on WMDs and EMPs. Spent a major part of his career at the CIA analyzing - wait for it - Russian & Soviet nuclear strategy, operational plans and doctrine.
Couple main thoughts: - He echoes the other independent analysts that this is a conflict that never should have happened and we provoked it; - He said we need to put an end to the asafp. We are so close to Armageddon that it's almost unfathomable. The way we keep escalating is suicide; - He is more concerned by what Putin HASN'T done. He thinks we have really only seen the tip of the spear - regardless what the media says; - He is the first person I've heard in any media to mention MY thought on the matter [pats self on back] that we need to be working together with Russia and Putin for WHEN China makes their move. He knows Putin recognizes this and is the main reason he hasn't yet escalated to bio, chemical, nuclear. Quote: the Russians are chess players; - if nuclear weapons start flying, we CAN'T beat RUS. Emphasis on can't, ie unable. RUS have better tactical technology (smaller, faster strike capabilities). ie Putin could wipe out the port of Long Beach before we knew what happened.
I'll listen later today but can you expand on his thoughts that Putin and Russia know there will be a day when they too have to face what China has planned? TYFYS;-)
Regarding China ...
When this broke out and we were escalating vs RUS, one of the main reasons I thought this was foolish was on the expectations China would move to take Taiwan sooner than later. If and when this happens, we will NEED Russia for leverage, etc against China.
Pry comes at it from the other direction. It's more of a macro issue as China is a power still on the rise. Currently RUS and China are in a military and economic block against the West. However Putin seems to understand China in the 'Chris Brown these hoes ain't loyal' context. When China moves to ascend the throne as THE world power, he understands he will need the US as an ally.
Pry also thinks that WHEN China takes back Taiwan, there aint a god damn thing we? are going to do about it. Heart warming to be sure.
Lol the CCP is going to be lucky to make it out of the next 5 years let alone ascend to The super power of the world.
Real and systemic chickens are coming home to roost for them right now.
The only way they survive is by turning into the new hermit kingdom which mutually excludes super power status. Think "great leap forward" but worse and on steroids.
What isn't mutually exclusive is the US descending into civil war, anarchy, or authoritarianism. We? Are perfectly capable of tearing ourselves down.
Why would their internal problems hinder them from doing whatever they want to do? This is the exact threat of Communism. They could and probably will begin slaughtering millions and millions of their own citizens if that's what it takes. What do you mean by survive? Who is going to stop them? I hope you're right and I absolutely agree with your sentiment in regard to what is destroying our own country.
This probably deserves Owen .... but it's integral to this conversation
The best interview I've heard on UKR to date. It should be on everyone's list. It's that important.
Dr. Peter Pry is the world's leading expert on WMDs and EMPs. Spent a major part of his career at the CIA analyzing - wait for it - Russian & Soviet nuclear strategy, operational plans and doctrine.
Couple main thoughts: - He echoes the other independent analysts that this is a conflict that never should have happened and we provoked it; - He said we need to put an end to the asafp. We are so close to Armageddon that it's almost unfathomable. The way we keep escalating is suicide; - He is more concerned by what Putin HASN'T done. He thinks we have really only seen the tip of the spear - regardless what the media says; - He is the first person I've heard in any media to mention MY thought on the matter [pats self on back] that we need to be working together with Russia and Putin for WHEN China makes their move. He knows Putin recognizes this and is the main reason he hasn't yet escalated to bio, chemical, nuclear. Quote: the Russians are chess players; - if nuclear weapons start flying, we CAN'T beat RUS. Emphasis on can't, ie unable. RUS have better tactical technology (smaller, faster strike capabilities). ie Putin could wipe out the port of Long Beach before we knew what happened.
I'll listen later today but can you expand on his thoughts that Putin and Russia know there will be a day when they too have to face what China has planned? TYFYS;-)
Regarding China ...
When this broke out and we were escalating vs RUS, one of the main reasons I thought this was foolish was on the expectations China would move to take Taiwan sooner than later. If and when this happens, we will NEED Russia for leverage, etc against China.
Pry comes at it from the other direction. It's more of a macro issue as China is a power still on the rise. Currently RUS and China are in a military and economic block against the West. However Putin seems to understand China in the 'Chris Brown these hoes ain't loyal' context. When China moves to ascend the throne as THE world power, he understands he will need the US as an ally.
Pry also thinks that WHEN China takes back Taiwan, there aint a god damn thing we? are going to do about it. Heart warming to be sure.
Lol the CCP is going to be lucky to make it out of the next 5 years let alone ascend to The super power of the world.
Real and systemic chickens are coming home to roost for them right now.
The only way they survive is by turning into the new hermit kingdom which mutually excludes super power status. Think "great leap forward" but worse and on steroids.
What isn't mutually exclusive is the US descending into civil war, anarchy, or authoritarianism. We? Are perfectly capable of tearing ourselves down.
I used to think this, but they have the rest of the world so over a barrel and they have such a tight control of their own citizenry I don’t believe it anymore. Hell…they are literally interning and murdering an entire race of people and the rest of the world isn’t saying a world and idiots like Lebron are finding ways to excuse it.
Please to be seeing the new thred. Rather not derail this one with China hawt talk.
You can futility spin however you want...the country is divided. This was the voting map in 2014 when the war really started (i.e. the eastern Ukrainian got elected and the Western governments (and Western Ukraine) didn't like it, staged a revolt, and then both sides got angry and started fighting):
I'm using Russian propaganda but you quote the same news source to try and disprove my point (which is still correct as voting patterns and more recent language maps of Ukraine show). That makes sense. And if you look at reports of Ukrainian polls of internal media more radio, newspapers, and such are broadcast and published in Russian language within the country than Ukrainian. But still. Dying on this hill is a desperate attempt to rewrite reality and ignoring most of the background to the current conflict. And if your argument is now that Ukrainian language usage is changing, doesn't that mean you were lying your ass off before when you were trying to say all of the country is historically Ukrainian and not Russian? Circular logic rulz...
And keep telling us that Azov aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just like lots of zig-zag logos and tattoos and like holding their right arms up and across their chests...and groups like c14 aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just don't like those dark people and Jews and get govt funds (probably US govt $$$) to promote those views...and folks in the actual government like Andriy Parubiy didn't REALLY sponsor and promote those groups...it was just an accident they were hanging out with them and all the video and previous quotes of some horrible things are just coincidences and misconstrued by the media. And the fact Stepan Bandera, a Germany collaborator back in WW2 who was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of "undesirable people" got a national holiday is an absolute disgrace by any standard. You keep ignoring and discounting these simple facts because you can't accept the logical fallacy that Russia=guilty does not mean Ukraine=innocent.
And keep saying anyone who disagrees with you must be a Russian stooge...I'll keep saying listening to a bitter ex-wife rail against her ex-husband about how bad a person he is and how innocent she was to the entire brutally messy divorce while popping anti-anxiety meds between breaths (although at times interesting) is not the best way to get a realistic, unbiased opinion on the situation which blew up because both sides made some really bad decisions...
And I notice you refuse to comment on Zelensky's confrontation on national TV when the Azov crowd called him a loser and told him if he tried to remove any of them (from fighting in Donbas) they would ignore him and recruit more. And how he caved to them soon after which helped start this war. Seems like a modern, functioning govt the West should be sending billions of $$$ and weapons to...absolute nuts.
My simple point is that it is a mess and the best thing for everyone would be to find a solution that works for both sides (i.e. lop off the eastern 1/3 of Ukraine that is primarily Russian and let them go to Russia and make some agreement that Ukraine won't join NATO because they weren't going to anyway) to stop the fighting. And if the US is not pushing for this than the US should not be involved in any of it...we are doing the average Ukrainian people significant harm by prolonging this war and turning it into our proxy war with Russia for some stupid reason, and in the process we are ignoring China and bankrupting Europe which is going to cause a lot more long-term problems for the world as a whole.
Do you have any areas of expertise or knowledge at a level commensurate to mine regarding this topic? If so, please let me know so I can spend 10 minutes researching it in order to give you the worst take you’ve ever heard.
Wow…stepped in it there if you had any understanding of the bored history around here…a very snotty, academic view of things and people as well which may be part of your problem.
Helpful hint…try attacking the logic next time instead of the messenger…screaming Russia propaganda like a shrill Karen about anything you disagree with (most of which there is video evidence of…like Azov telling the current Panama Paper Ukrainian President on live TV to pound sand for wanting peace and wanting to withdraw troops or the C14 guy in an interview literally saying ‘I’m not a Nazi…I just don’t like those dark people and Jews’) isn’t the most effective rebuttal…
I am sorry to offend, I make no bones about being a dick. I have no intentions or desire to convince you or anyone here to change their mind. I rarely even venture to this part of the boreds, as I don’t care much for discussing politics. Except for football politics. I’m also not a very serious person, that’s the dullard’s domain, so I try to work in some levity.
I’ve presented plenty of facts, insights, and firsthand observations. Specific point rebuttals, explaining why some sources are covert propaganda, and providing cultural, linguistic, and regional explanations. I don’t expect you to have read all of my lengthy explanations. You also have to understand that seeing the same de-bunked or incorrect or ignorant stuff over-and-over is funny to me, but someone else may not have the experience to know it is any of those things. And I acknowledge that, but seeing it on repeat is a different matter.
Part of the problem is that a lot of the information is either the product of lazy writing, or, quite often, malicious intent. Some is contrarian for the sake of being so or is put out by grifters eager to get attention as the dissenting voice. Every part of the globe has injected their own national/regional politics into this, no matter how irrelevant.
I am mostly here to entertain. I, like many of the people familiar with this, was caught off guard by the scale, ferocity, and ambition of the Russian invasion. Because we all thought that because it would be so stupid and pointless that this wouldn’t happen.
You can futility spin however you want...the country is divided. This was the voting map in 2014 when the war really started (i.e. the eastern Ukrainian got elected and the Western governments (and Western Ukraine) didn't like it, staged a revolt, and then both sides got angry and started fighting):
I'm using Russian propaganda but you quote the same news source to try and disprove my point (which is still correct as voting patterns and more recent language maps of Ukraine show). That makes sense. And if you look at reports of Ukrainian polls of internal media more radio, newspapers, and such are broadcast and published in Russian language within the country than Ukrainian. But still. Dying on this hill is a desperate attempt to rewrite reality and ignoring most of the background to the current conflict. And if your argument is now that Ukrainian language usage is changing, doesn't that mean you were lying your ass off before when you were trying to say all of the country is historically Ukrainian and not Russian? Circular logic rulz...
And keep telling us that Azov aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just like lots of zig-zag logos and tattoos and like holding their right arms up and across their chests...and groups like c14 aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just don't like those dark people and Jews and get govt funds (probably US govt $$$) to promote those views...and folks in the actual government like Andriy Parubiy didn't REALLY sponsor and promote those groups...it was just an accident they were hanging out with them and all the video and previous quotes of some horrible things are just coincidences and misconstrued by the media. And the fact Stepan Bandera, a Germany collaborator back in WW2 who was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of "undesirable people" got a national holiday is an absolute disgrace by any standard. You keep ignoring and discounting these simple facts because you can't accept the logical fallacy that Russia=guilty does not mean Ukraine=innocent.
And keep saying anyone who disagrees with you must be a Russian stooge...I'll keep saying listening to a bitter ex-wife rail against her ex-husband about how bad a person he is and how innocent she was to the entire brutally messy divorce while popping anti-anxiety meds between breaths (although at times interesting) is not the best way to get a realistic, unbiased opinion on the situation which blew up because both sides made some really bad decisions...
And I notice you refuse to comment on Zelensky's confrontation on national TV when the Azov crowd called him a loser and told him if he tried to remove any of them (from fighting in Donbas) they would ignore him and recruit more. And how he caved to them soon after which helped start this war. Seems like a modern, functioning govt the West should be sending billions of $$$ and weapons to...absolute nuts.
My simple point is that it is a mess and the best thing for everyone would be to find a solution that works for both sides (i.e. lop off the eastern 1/3 of Ukraine that is primarily Russian and let them go to Russia and make some agreement that Ukraine won't join NATO because they weren't going to anyway) to stop the fighting. And if the US is not pushing for this than the US should not be involved in any of it...we are doing the average Ukrainian people significant harm by prolonging this war and turning it into our proxy war with Russia for some stupid reason, and in the process we are ignoring China and bankrupting Europe which is going to cause a lot more long-term problems for the world as a whole.
Do you have any areas of expertise or knowledge at a level commensurate to mine regarding this topic? If so, please let me know so I can spend 10 minutes researching it in order to give you the worst take you’ve ever heard.
Wow…stepped in it there if you had any understanding of the bored history around here…a very snotty, academic view of things and people as well which may be part of your problem.
Helpful hint…try attacking the logic next time instead of the messenger…screaming Russia propaganda like a shrill Karen about anything you disagree with (most of which there is video evidence of…like Azov telling the current Panama Paper Ukrainian President on live TV to pound sand for wanting peace and wanting to withdraw troops or the C14 guy in an interview literally saying ‘I’m not a Nazi…I just don’t like those dark people and Jews’) isn’t the most effective rebuttal…
I am sorry to offend, I make no bones about being a dick. I have no intentions or desire to convince you or anyone here to change their mind. I rarely even venture to this part of the boreds, as I don’t care much for discussing politics. Except for football politics. I’m also not a very serious person, that’s the dullard’s domain, so I try to work in some levity.
I’ve presented plenty of facts, insights, and firsthand observations. Specific point rebuttals, explaining why some sources are covert propaganda, and providing cultural, linguistic, and regional explanations. I don’t expect you to have read all of my lengthy explanations. You also have to understand that seeing the same de-bunked or incorrect or ignorant stuff over-and-over is funny to me, but someone else may not have the experience to know it is any of those things. And I acknowledge that, but seeing it on repeat is a different matter.
Part of the problem is that a lot of the information is either the product of lazy writing, or, quite often, malicious intent. Some is contrarian for the sake of being so or is put out by grifters eager to get attention as the dissenting voice. Every part of the globe has injected their own national/regional politics into this, no matter how irrelevant.
I am mostly here to entertain. I, like many of the people familiar with this, was caught off guard by the scale, ferocity, and ambition of the Russian invasion. Because we all thought that because it would be so stupid and pointless that this wouldn’t happen.
Your perspective has been enlightening, if nothing else. It's appreciated.
There are also two sides to every conflict.
My interests are in the intersections of the aforementioned venn diagram. Which means inconvenient truths exist regardless of the protestations those truths inconvenience.
For example, both can be true that Putin is an imperialist and the US wanted the Ukrainian people to play the roll of cannon fodder.
How would you recommend parsing those intersections out if only a single pov is allowed?
A single pov is never a means to resolve conflict unless that pov has iron-fisted intentions (pun not intended).
You can futility spin however you want...the country is divided. This was the voting map in 2014 when the war really started (i.e. the eastern Ukrainian got elected and the Western governments (and Western Ukraine) didn't like it, staged a revolt, and then both sides got angry and started fighting):
I'm using Russian propaganda but you quote the same news source to try and disprove my point (which is still correct as voting patterns and more recent language maps of Ukraine show). That makes sense. And if you look at reports of Ukrainian polls of internal media more radio, newspapers, and such are broadcast and published in Russian language within the country than Ukrainian. But still. Dying on this hill is a desperate attempt to rewrite reality and ignoring most of the background to the current conflict. And if your argument is now that Ukrainian language usage is changing, doesn't that mean you were lying your ass off before when you were trying to say all of the country is historically Ukrainian and not Russian? Circular logic rulz...
And keep telling us that Azov aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just like lots of zig-zag logos and tattoos and like holding their right arms up and across their chests...and groups like c14 aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just don't like those dark people and Jews and get govt funds (probably US govt $$$) to promote those views...and folks in the actual government like Andriy Parubiy didn't REALLY sponsor and promote those groups...it was just an accident they were hanging out with them and all the video and previous quotes of some horrible things are just coincidences and misconstrued by the media. And the fact Stepan Bandera, a Germany collaborator back in WW2 who was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of "undesirable people" got a national holiday is an absolute disgrace by any standard. You keep ignoring and discounting these simple facts because you can't accept the logical fallacy that Russia=guilty does not mean Ukraine=innocent.
And keep saying anyone who disagrees with you must be a Russian stooge...I'll keep saying listening to a bitter ex-wife rail against her ex-husband about how bad a person he is and how innocent she was to the entire brutally messy divorce while popping anti-anxiety meds between breaths (although at times interesting) is not the best way to get a realistic, unbiased opinion on the situation which blew up because both sides made some really bad decisions...
And I notice you refuse to comment on Zelensky's confrontation on national TV when the Azov crowd called him a loser and told him if he tried to remove any of them (from fighting in Donbas) they would ignore him and recruit more. And how he caved to them soon after which helped start this war. Seems like a modern, functioning govt the West should be sending billions of $$$ and weapons to...absolute nuts.
My simple point is that it is a mess and the best thing for everyone would be to find a solution that works for both sides (i.e. lop off the eastern 1/3 of Ukraine that is primarily Russian and let them go to Russia and make some agreement that Ukraine won't join NATO because they weren't going to anyway) to stop the fighting. And if the US is not pushing for this than the US should not be involved in any of it...we are doing the average Ukrainian people significant harm by prolonging this war and turning it into our proxy war with Russia for some stupid reason, and in the process we are ignoring China and bankrupting Europe which is going to cause a lot more long-term problems for the world as a whole.
Do you have any areas of expertise or knowledge at a level commensurate to mine regarding this topic? If so, please let me know so I can spend 10 minutes researching it in order to give you the worst take you’ve ever heard.
Wow…stepped in it there if you had any understanding of the bored history around here…a very snotty, academic view of things and people as well which may be part of your problem.
Helpful hint…try attacking the logic next time instead of the messenger…screaming Russia propaganda like a shrill Karen about anything you disagree with (most of which there is video evidence of…like Azov telling the current Panama Paper Ukrainian President on live TV to pound sand for wanting peace and wanting to withdraw troops or the C14 guy in an interview literally saying ‘I’m not a Nazi…I just don’t like those dark people and Jews’) isn’t the most effective rebuttal…
I am sorry to offend, I make no bones about being a dick. I have no intentions or desire to convince you or anyone here to change their mind. I rarely even venture to this part of the boreds, as I don’t care much for discussing politics. Except for football politics. I’m also not a very serious person, that’s the dullard’s domain, so I try to work in some levity.
I’ve presented plenty of facts, insights, and firsthand observations. Specific point rebuttals, explaining why some sources are covert propaganda, and providing cultural, linguistic, and regional explanations. I don’t expect you to have read all of my lengthy explanations. You also have to understand that seeing the same de-bunked or incorrect or ignorant stuff over-and-over is funny to me, but someone else may not have the experience to know it is any of those things. And I acknowledge that, but seeing it on repeat is a different matter.
Part of the problem is that a lot of the information is either the product of lazy writing, or, quite often, malicious intent. Some is contrarian for the sake of being so or is put out by grifters eager to get attention as the dissenting voice. Every part of the globe has injected their own national/regional politics into this, no matter how irrelevant.
I am mostly here to entertain. I, like many of the people familiar with this, was caught off guard by the scale, ferocity, and ambition of the Russian invasion. Because we all thought that because it would be so stupid and pointless that this wouldn’t happen.
Ummm...no. You've presented a viewpoint including that on cultural history, but to say you have provided "Specific point rebuttals, explaining why some sources are covert propaganda" is not based in reality. I have given specific examples over and over and you have ignored them all. Azov literally told the current (Panama Paper) president on Ukrainian TV in front of the nation that he's a loser and they will keep fighting if he tries to stop them. The media was littered with story after story of neo-Nazis in Ukraine before this all started:
etc...etc. From 2014 until the war started it was a well-known fact...now people like to pretend like it never existed... You can argue over the magnitude of the problem with Azov and like, but to turn a blind eye to it (or the fact the govt hauled off some mayors and one of their own negotiators and murdered them in cold blood) is just ignoring reality.
No one has ever explained to me why I'm supposed to give a fuck about Ukraine
Because we left the other wars and need to feed the military industrial complex. This one is awesome because we can feed billions to the military contractors and weapons manufacturers without actually putting Americans into the war. It’s the optimal situation. Afghanistan was feeding the machine but we were losing lives. That’s no good. She we had to get out of there and quickly replace it with something better. A popular war with leftists (did you put your Ukraine flag on your profile pic?) RUSSIA! Without killing American soldiers while funneling billions to the weapons companies. Why do you think Boeing is moving to Virginia?
I’m old enough to remember when $5billion to secure the southern border was wildly expensive that we simply couldn’t afford.
Well yeah that’s obviously the reason. That and wag the dog. Still not one that I care about.
Now would be a good time to put up a Sunflower in your avi to prove that you really care about human suffering.
Comments
Tee & Pees
When this broke out and we were escalating vs RUS, one of the main reasons I thought this was foolish was on the expectations China would move to take Taiwan sooner than later. If and when this happens, we will NEED Russia for leverage, etc against China.
Pry comes at it from the other direction. It's more of a macro issue as China is a power still on the rise. Currently RUS and China are in a military and economic block against the West. However Putin seems to understand China in the 'Chris Brown these hoes ain't loyal' context. When China moves to ascend the throne as THE world power, he understands he will need the US as an ally.
Pry also thinks that WHEN China takes back Taiwan, there aint a god damn thing we? are going to do about it. Heart warming to be sure.
Real and systemic chickens are coming home to roost for them right now.
The only way they survive is by turning into the new hermit kingdom which mutually excludes super power status. Think "great leap forward" but worse and on steroids.
What isn't mutually exclusive is the US descending into civil war, anarchy, or authoritarianism. We? Are perfectly capable of tearing ourselves down.
https://hardcorehusky.com/discussion/97130/china-watch-superiority-thred#latest
Also, fuck you, we're? America damn it! Sure Auburn looks like they might be good this year but we are #1 until we aren't.
I’ve presented plenty of facts, insights, and firsthand observations. Specific point rebuttals, explaining why some sources are covert propaganda, and providing cultural, linguistic, and regional explanations. I don’t expect you to have read all of my lengthy explanations. You also have to understand that seeing the same de-bunked or incorrect or ignorant stuff over-and-over is funny to me, but someone else may not have the experience to know it is any of those things. And I acknowledge that, but seeing it on repeat is a different matter.
Part of the problem is that a lot of the information is either the product of lazy writing, or, quite often, malicious intent. Some is contrarian for the sake of being so or is put out by grifters eager to get attention as the dissenting voice. Every part of the globe has injected their own national/regional politics into this, no matter how irrelevant.
I am mostly here to entertain. I, like many of the people familiar with this, was caught off guard by the scale, ferocity, and ambition of the Russian invasion. Because we all thought that because it would be so stupid and pointless that this wouldn’t happen.
There are also two sides to every conflict.
My interests are in the intersections of the aforementioned venn diagram. Which means inconvenient truths exist regardless of the protestations those truths inconvenience.
For example, both can be true that Putin is an imperialist and the US wanted the Ukrainian people to play the roll of cannon fodder.
How would you recommend parsing those intersections out if only a single pov is allowed?
A single pov is never a means to resolve conflict unless that pov has iron-fisted intentions (pun not intended).
TYFYS
https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/im-not-a-loser-zelensky-clashes-with-veterans-over-donbas-disengagement.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/meet-the-ukrainian-nationalist-group-that-s-training-white-supremacists-69791301784
https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukrainian-pm-minister-attended-neo-nazi-concert-in-kyiv/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49903996
etc...etc. From 2014 until the war started it was a well-known fact...now people like to pretend like it never existed... You can argue over the magnitude of the problem with Azov and like, but to turn a blind eye to it (or the fact the govt hauled off some mayors and one of their own negotiators and murdered them in cold blood) is just ignoring reality.
God bless dem tittays.
And ...
You can’t make this shite up…the modern world is nothing but a propaganda machine…these are not the neo-Nazis you are looking for…
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/mainstream-media-praises-ukraines-azov-battalion-dropping-nazi-patches-uniform