So I really never focussed on who the mercenaries in the Donbas region were taking out civilians although your analysis of them not being Blackwater or any subsidiary of them was outstanding! I simply want to know why the Ukraine was fighting in this region killing Russian separatists. Perhaps those reports were also Russian propoganda? The whole Nazi narrative going back to unsettled, WWI and II scores is historically intriguing to me. It does seem these regional bias' against the Jews is something of interest. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and intelligence with us!
Sorry I didn’t get back to this earlier, in the interest of organization I’ll do bullet points as there appear to be three things mentioned:
* Russian separatists are AKA Russians. Most countries tend to fight back against those who are attacking them. * Nazis to Russia are people who don’t support Russia. I, like all Soviet children, was conditioned to associate the word Nazi with an enemy to be destroyed without knowing what it means. * No country particularly loves us Jews. Eastern European - Jew relations are difficult and complex to describe. The reason 75% of the world’s Jews lived in Poland and Ukraine isn’t as complex. Many Americans are unaware of something called the Pale of Settlement. Jews, with a few exceptions, were not allowed to live in many places, including Russia proper. Here’s a map:
Russia’s foreign ministry has been debating Israel on whether Hitler was really a Jew and whether we Holocaust-ed ourselves. Putin had to make a rare apology. The other country has a Jewish president, recently had a Jewish prime minister, and along with Poland is the cradle of modern European (not Sephardic) Jewish culture. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.
FWIW most Russians and Ukrainians aren’t extra anti-Semitic. If anything I’d say much less so than most of the rest of Europe. Putin is many bad things but he’s not biased against Jews, and some of his most closest corrupt cronies are Boris and Arkady Rotenberg. Russian propaganda has been ratcheting up over the last ten years, on a more macro scale where Jews are behind all of the world’s ills. The Elders of Zion protocol thingy is a Tsarist creation, which surprised me when I learned about it because I assumed it was of Western European origin.
Everything I figured I'd ever need to know about far Eastern European/Central Asia-Jew relations I learned from Borat.
The western half of Ukraine spent the last 8+ years attacking the eastern half and trying to mandate them to not to speak Russian...hell even Zelensky ran on a peace platform of stopping the attacks against people in Donbass and won a shite-ton of the vote. Then he went out East and tried to tell the Azov crowd they need to find a new line of work and they laughed in his face on National TV and said they weren't stopping and if he pulled any troops they would find 10x more. And he gave in, lost most of his internal support, and is now being forced by the West into a protracted war that is leaving his own people bearing the brunt of the pain and suffering all so the idiots in DC and the Raytheon crowd can think they are weakening Russia while they are really bankrupting Europe. I'm sure his banking accounts that were dug up in the Panama Papers are doing well though.
BTW...surprised nobody commented on the dust-up in Germany a few days ago when they showed video of a few Azov fighters and they just happened to have some Nazi symbols...amazing how the media covers up some of this stuff...
I will say that language map uses a reliable source, KIIS. But the data is from 2003, and whoever made the map is possibly a 12 year old working on a PowerPoint for a school project. 59% use a language - LANGUAGE TOTALLY DOMINATES. Who would make a key like that?
Curious- why does this matter? I used those language maps for a specific reason; in a historical context to illustrate the artificial famine and who the targets were as well as Russia’s continuing erosion - not sure on your reasoning.
Here is the same source, KIIS, with a 2020 survey on whether they support Ukrainization:
Also not particularly relevant, but at least not taken ~10 years after the fall of the Soviet Union where every person taking the poll would have had to live their academic and professional life almost exclusively in Russian.
So I really never focussed on who the mercenaries in the Donbas region were taking out civilians although your analysis of them not being Blackwater or any subsidiary of them was outstanding! I simply want to know why the Ukraine was fighting in this region killing Russian separatists. Perhaps those reports were also Russian propoganda? The whole Nazi narrative going back to unsettled, WWI and II scores is historically intriguing to me. It does seem these regional bias' against the Jews is something of interest. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and intelligence with us!
Sorry I didn’t get back to this earlier, in the interest of organization I’ll do bullet points as there appear to be three things mentioned:
* Russian separatists are AKA Russians. Most countries tend to fight back against those who are attacking them. * Nazis to Russia are people who don’t support Russia. I, like all Soviet children, was conditioned to associate the word Nazi with an enemy to be destroyed without knowing what it means. * No country particularly loves us Jews. Eastern European - Jew relations are difficult and complex to describe. The reason 75% of the world’s Jews lived in Poland and Ukraine isn’t as complex. Many Americans are unaware of something called the Pale of Settlement. Jews, with a few exceptions, were not allowed to live in many places, including Russia proper. Here’s a map:
Russia’s foreign ministry has been debating Israel on whether Hitler was really a Jew and whether we Holocaust-ed ourselves. Putin had to make a rare apology. The other country has a Jewish president, recently had a Jewish prime minister, and along with Poland is the cradle of modern European (not Sephardic) Jewish culture. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.
FWIW most Russians and Ukrainians aren’t extra anti-Semitic. If anything I’d say much less so than most of the rest of Europe. Putin is many bad things but he’s not biased against Jews, and some of his most closest corrupt cronies are Boris and Arkady Rotenberg. Russian propaganda has been ratcheting up over the last ten years, on a more macro scale where Jews are behind all of the world’s ills. The Elders of Zion protocol thingy is a Tsarist creation, which surprised me when I learned about it because I assumed it was of Western European origin.
Everything I figured I'd ever need to know about far Eastern European/Central Asia-Jew relations I learned from Borat.
That’s actually how Roboduck was also born.
Fun or not fun fact: the Kazakh language Sasha Baron Cohen speaks in Borat is Polish. Which is closer to Ukrainian than Russian, but uses the Latin alphabet because they’re Catholic. Russian soldiers have been finding Polish supplies, and they thought those were American supplies with instructions in Ukrainian spelled phonetically in the Latin alphabet.
Haven’t the people of Ukraine suffered enough without U2 playing their new songs?
No idea who the geeky twitter guy is, and why he’s so worried about Bono, but I wonder if he’s ever heard of USO shows. Bob Hope didn’t need a subway station, let alone the next stop from the literal deepest subway station in the world, to do a show.
Heads of state of NATO nations have been in Kyiv over the last month. Yet this goober thinks it’s suspicious that Bono, who travels with a camera crew and printed Noble nominations in case he does something attention worthy, can siphon some publicity out of this?
We really do a poor job of teaching geography in schools. Europe does have shorter distances than the US with a higher population density. But Ukraine is fairly big. There are parts of it closer to Norway or Iraq than other parts of Ukraine.
US equivalent: in that region the Russians have been pushed back to Toronto, Bono is in Cleveland, the heaviest fighting is in DC, Philadelphia and Baltimore have been turned into rubble. The superimposed map equivalent of Detroit is probably safer than the actual Detroit. US weapons shipments arrive south of Chicago.
Haven’t the people of Ukraine suffered enough without U2 playing their new songs?
No idea who the geeky twitter guy is, and why he’s so worried about Bono, but I wonder if he’s ever heard of USO shows. Bob Hope didn’t need a subway station, let alone the next stop from the literal deepest subway station in the world, to do a show.
Heads of state of NATO nations have been in Kyiv over the last month. Yet this goober thinks it’s suspicious that Bono, who travels with a camera crew and printed Noble nominations in case he does something attention worthy, can siphon some publicity out of this?
We really do a poor job of teaching geography in schools. Europe does have shorter distances than the US with a higher population density. But Ukraine is fairly big. There are parts of it closer to Norway or Iraq than other parts of Ukraine.
US equivalent: in that region the Russians have been pushed back to Toronto, Bono is in Cleveland, the heaviest fighting is in DC, Philadelphia and Baltimore have been turned into rubble. The superimposed map equivalent of Detroit is probably safer than the actual Detroit. US weapons shipments arrive south of Chicago.
You know I'm no geographic midget but this was still immensely helpful from a perspective of distance standpoint.
You can futility spin however you want...the country is divided. This was the voting map in 2014 when the war really started (i.e. the eastern Ukrainian got elected and the Western governments (and Western Ukraine) didn't like it, staged a revolt, and then both sides got angry and started fighting):
I'm using Russian propaganda but you quote the same news source to try and disprove my point (which is still correct as voting patterns and more recent language maps of Ukraine show). That makes sense. And if you look at reports of Ukrainian polls of internal media more radio, newspapers, and such are broadcast and published in Russian language within the country than Ukrainian. But still. Dying on this hill is a desperate attempt to rewrite reality and ignoring most of the background to the current conflict. And if your argument is now that Ukrainian language usage is changing, doesn't that mean you were lying your ass off before when you were trying to say all of the country is historically Ukrainian and not Russian? Circular logic rulz...
And keep telling us that Azov aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just like lots of zig-zag logos and tattoos and like holding their right arms up and across their chests...and groups like c14 aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just don't like those dark people and Jews and get govt funds (probably US govt $$$) to promote those views...and folks in the actual government like Andriy Parubiy didn't REALLY sponsor and promote those groups...it was just an accident they were hanging out with them and all the video and previous quotes of some horrible things are just coincidences and misconstrued by the media. And the fact Stepan Bandera, a Germany collaborator back in WW2 who was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of "undesirable people" got a national holiday is an absolute disgrace by any standard. You keep ignoring and discounting these simple facts because you can't accept the logical fallacy that Russia=guilty does not mean Ukraine=innocent.
And keep saying anyone who disagrees with you must be a Russian stooge...I'll keep saying listening to a bitter ex-wife rail against her ex-husband about how bad a person he is and how innocent she was to the entire brutally messy divorce while popping anti-anxiety meds between breaths (although at times interesting) is not the best way to get a realistic, unbiased opinion on the situation which blew up because both sides made some really bad decisions...
And I notice you refuse to comment on Zelensky's confrontation on national TV when the Azov crowd called him a loser and told him if he tried to remove any of them (from fighting in Donbas) they would ignore him and recruit more. And how he caved to them soon after which helped start this war. Seems like a modern, functioning govt the West should be sending billions of $$$ and weapons to...absolute nuts.
My simple point is that it is a mess and the best thing for everyone would be to find a solution that works for both sides (i.e. lop off the eastern 1/3 of Ukraine that is primarily Russian and let them go to Russia and make some agreement that Ukraine won't join NATO because they weren't going to anyway) to stop the fighting. And if the US is not pushing for this than the US should not be involved in any of it...we are doing the average Ukrainian people significant harm by prolonging this war and turning it into our proxy war with Russia for some stupid reason, and in the process we are ignoring China and bankrupting Europe which is going to cause a lot more long-term problems for the world as a whole.
You can futility spin however you want...the country is divided. This was the voting map in 2014 when the war really started (i.e. the eastern Ukrainian got elected and the Western governments (and Western Ukraine) didn't like it, staged a revolt, and then both sides got angry and started fighting):
I'm using Russian propaganda but you quote the same news source to try and disprove my point (which is still correct as voting patterns and more recent language maps of Ukraine show). That makes sense. And if you look at reports of Ukrainian polls of internal media more radio, newspapers, and such are broadcast and published in Russian language within the country than Ukrainian. But still. Dying on this hill is a desperate attempt to rewrite reality and ignoring most of the background to the current conflict. And if your argument is now that Ukrainian language usage is changing, doesn't that mean you were lying your ass off before when you were trying to say all of the country is historically Ukrainian and not Russian? Circular logic rulz...
And keep telling us that Azov aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just like lots of zig-zag logos and tattoos and like holding their right arms up and across their chests...and groups like c14 aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just don't like those dark people and Jews and get govt funds (probably US govt $$$) to promote those views...and folks in the actual government like Andriy Parubiy didn't REALLY sponsor and promote those groups...it was just an accident they were hanging out with them and all the video and previous quotes of some horrible things are just coincidences and misconstrued by the media. And the fact Stepan Bandera, a Germany collaborator back in WW2 who was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of "undesirable people" got a national holiday is an absolute disgrace by any standard. You keep ignoring and discounting these simple facts because you can't accept the logical fallacy that Russia=guilty does not mean Ukraine=innocent.
And keep saying anyone who disagrees with you must be a Russian stooge...I'll keep saying listening to a bitter ex-wife rail against her ex-husband about how bad a person he is and how innocent she was to the entire brutally messy divorce while popping anti-anxiety meds between breaths (although at times interesting) is not the best way to get a realistic, unbiased opinion on the situation which blew up because both sides made some really bad decisions...
And I notice you refuse to comment on Zelensky's confrontation on national TV when the Azov crowd called him a loser and told him if he tried to remove any of them (from fighting in Donbas) they would ignore him and recruit more. And how he caved to them soon after which helped start this war. Seems like a modern, functioning govt the West should be sending billions of $$$ and weapons to...absolute nuts.
My simple point is that it is a mess and the best thing for everyone would be to find a solution that works for both sides (i.e. lop off the eastern 1/3 of Ukraine that is primarily Russian and let them go to Russia and make some agreement that Ukraine won't join NATO because they weren't going to anyway) to stop the fighting. And if the US is not pushing for this than the US should not be involved in any of it...we are doing the average Ukrainian people significant harm by prolonging this war and turning it into our proxy war with Russia for some stupid reason, and in the process we are ignoring China and bankrupting Europe which is going to cause a lot more long-term problems for the world as a whole.
All of this.
Making cannon fodder great again is not in the best interests of anybody.
Save the current US ruling class who must desperately divert attention from it's ongoing and never ending attempts to turn the American public into serfs.
Haven’t the people of Ukraine suffered enough without U2 playing their new songs?
No idea who the geeky twitter guy is, and why he’s so worried about Bono, but I wonder if he’s ever heard of USO shows. Bob Hope didn’t need a subway station, let alone the next stop from the literal deepest subway station in the world, to do a show.
Heads of state of NATO nations have been in Kyiv over the last month. Yet this goober thinks it’s suspicious that Bono, who travels with a camera crew and printed Noble nominations in case he does something attention worthy, can siphon some publicity out of this?
We really do a poor job of teaching geography in schools. Europe does have shorter distances than the US with a higher population density. But Ukraine is fairly big. There are parts of it closer to Norway or Iraq than other parts of Ukraine.
US equivalent: in that region the Russians have been pushed back to Toronto, Bono is in Cleveland, the heaviest fighting is in DC, Philadelphia and Baltimore have been turned into rubble. The superimposed map equivalent of Detroit is probably safer than the actual Detroit. US weapons shipments arrive south of Chicago.
Comments
To be clear, I have NO idea what is fact or fiction out of his story. A number of tims I found myself pursing my lips and thinking hmmmm....
Sounds like he was the 'go-to' guy on UKR during the Obama years. Which is obviously more than ironic considering what happened 2017-2019.
Here is your grain of salt.
I will say that language map uses a reliable source, KIIS. But the data is from 2003, and whoever made the map is possibly a 12 year old working on a PowerPoint for a school project. 59% use a language - LANGUAGE TOTALLY DOMINATES. Who would make a key like that?
Curious- why does this matter? I used those language maps for a specific reason; in a historical context to illustrate the artificial famine and who the targets were as well as Russia’s continuing erosion - not sure on your reasoning.
Here is the same source, KIIS, with a 2020 survey on whether they support Ukrainization:
Also not particularly relevant, but at least not taken ~10 years after the fall of the Soviet Union where every person taking the poll would have had to live their academic and professional life almost exclusively in Russian.
Fun or not fun fact: the Kazakh language Sasha Baron Cohen speaks in Borat is Polish. Which is closer to Ukrainian than Russian, but uses the Latin alphabet because they’re Catholic. Russian soldiers have been finding Polish supplies, and they thought those were American supplies with instructions in Ukrainian spelled phonetically in the Latin alphabet.
No idea who the geeky twitter guy is, and why he’s so worried about Bono, but I wonder if he’s ever heard of USO shows. Bob Hope didn’t need a subway station, let alone the next stop from the literal deepest subway station in the world, to do a show.
Heads of state of NATO nations have been in Kyiv over the last month. Yet this goober thinks it’s suspicious that Bono, who travels with a camera crew and printed Noble nominations in case he does something attention worthy, can siphon some publicity out of this?
We really do a poor job of teaching geography in schools. Europe does have shorter distances than the US with a higher population density. But Ukraine is fairly big. There are parts of it closer to Norway or Iraq than other parts of Ukraine.
US equivalent: in that region the Russians have been pushed back to Toronto, Bono is in Cleveland, the heaviest fighting is in DC, Philadelphia and Baltimore have been turned into rubble. The superimposed map equivalent of Detroit is probably safer than the actual Detroit. US weapons shipments arrive south of Chicago.
I'm using Russian propaganda but you quote the same news source to try and disprove my point (which is still correct as voting patterns and more recent language maps of Ukraine show). That makes sense. And if you look at reports of Ukrainian polls of internal media more radio, newspapers, and such are broadcast and published in Russian language within the country than Ukrainian. But still. Dying on this hill is a desperate attempt to rewrite reality and ignoring most of the background to the current conflict. And if your argument is now that Ukrainian language usage is changing, doesn't that mean you were lying your ass off before when you were trying to say all of the country is historically Ukrainian and not Russian? Circular logic rulz...
And keep telling us that Azov aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just like lots of zig-zag logos and tattoos and like holding their right arms up and across their chests...and groups like c14 aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just don't like those dark people and Jews and get govt funds (probably US govt $$$) to promote those views...and folks in the actual government like Andriy Parubiy didn't REALLY sponsor and promote those groups...it was just an accident they were hanging out with them and all the video and previous quotes of some horrible things are just coincidences and misconstrued by the media. And the fact Stepan Bandera, a Germany collaborator back in WW2 who was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of "undesirable people" got a national holiday is an absolute disgrace by any standard. You keep ignoring and discounting these simple facts because you can't accept the logical fallacy that Russia=guilty does not mean Ukraine=innocent.
And keep saying anyone who disagrees with you must be a Russian stooge...I'll keep saying listening to a bitter ex-wife rail against her ex-husband about how bad a person he is and how innocent she was to the entire brutally messy divorce while popping anti-anxiety meds between breaths (although at times interesting) is not the best way to get a realistic, unbiased opinion on the situation which blew up because both sides made some really bad decisions...
And I notice you refuse to comment on Zelensky's confrontation on national TV when the Azov crowd called him a loser and told him if he tried to remove any of them (from fighting in Donbas) they would ignore him and recruit more. And how he caved to them soon after which helped start this war. Seems like a modern, functioning govt the West should be sending billions of $$$ and weapons to...absolute nuts.
My simple point is that it is a mess and the best thing for everyone would be to find a solution that works for both sides (i.e. lop off the eastern 1/3 of Ukraine that is primarily Russian and let them go to Russia and make some agreement that Ukraine won't join NATO because they weren't going to anyway) to stop the fighting. And if the US is not pushing for this than the US should not be involved in any of it...we are doing the average Ukrainian people significant harm by prolonging this war and turning it into our proxy war with Russia for some stupid reason, and in the process we are ignoring China and bankrupting Europe which is going to cause a lot more long-term problems for the world as a whole.
In this case surrender is the best option and France can lead the way
The rhetoric by Biden and others is reckless and dangerous and fucking stupid
No more money to Ukraine
Making cannon fodder great again is not in the best interests of anybody.
Save the current US ruling class who must desperately divert attention from it's ongoing and never ending attempts to turn the American public into serfs.
No rush
(Read that in a Ralphie May voice for full effect)
I might support that.