The Military Situation In The Ukraine
Comments
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hardhat said:
Coming soon to your IPhone without permission or knowledge of. -
Do you have any areas of expertise or knowledge at a level commensurate to mine regarding this topic? If so, please let me know so I can spend 10 minutes researching it in order to give you the worst take you’ve ever heard.HoustonHusky said:You can futility spin however you want...the country is divided. This was the voting map in 2014 when the war really started (i.e. the eastern Ukrainian got elected and the Western governments (and Western Ukraine) didn't like it, staged a revolt, and then both sides got angry and started fighting):
I'm using Russian propaganda but you quote the same news source to try and disprove my point (which is still correct as voting patterns and more recent language maps of Ukraine show). That makes sense. And if you look at reports of Ukrainian polls of internal media more radio, newspapers, and such are broadcast and published in Russian language within the country than Ukrainian. But still. Dying on this hill is a desperate attempt to rewrite reality and ignoring most of the background to the current conflict. And if your argument is now that Ukrainian language usage is changing, doesn't that mean you were lying your ass off before when you were trying to say all of the country is historically Ukrainian and not Russian? Circular logic rulz...
And keep telling us that Azov aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just like lots of zig-zag logos and tattoos and like holding their right arms up and across their chests...and groups like c14 aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just don't like those dark people and Jews and get govt funds (probably US govt $$$) to promote those views...and folks in the actual government like Andriy Parubiy didn't REALLY sponsor and promote those groups...it was just an accident they were hanging out with them and all the video and previous quotes of some horrible things are just coincidences and misconstrued by the media. And the fact Stepan Bandera, a Germany collaborator back in WW2 who was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of "undesirable people" got a national holiday is an absolute disgrace by any standard. You keep ignoring and discounting these simple facts because you can't accept the logical fallacy that Russia=guilty does not mean Ukraine=innocent.
And keep saying anyone who disagrees with you must be a Russian stooge...I'll keep saying listening to a bitter ex-wife rail against her ex-husband about how bad a person he is and how innocent she was to the entire brutally messy divorce while popping anti-anxiety meds between breaths (although at times interesting) is not the best way to get a realistic, unbiased opinion on the situation which blew up because both sides made some really bad decisions...
And I notice you refuse to comment on Zelensky's confrontation on national TV when the Azov crowd called him a loser and told him if he tried to remove any of them (from fighting in Donbas) they would ignore him and recruit more. And how he caved to them soon after which helped start this war. Seems like a modern, functioning govt the West should be sending billions of $$$ and weapons to...absolute nuts.
My simple point is that it is a mess and the best thing for everyone would be to find a solution that works for both sides (i.e. lop off the eastern 1/3 of Ukraine that is primarily Russian and let them go to Russia and make some agreement that Ukraine won't join NATO because they weren't going to anyway) to stop the fighting. And if the US is not pushing for this than the US should not be involved in any of it...we are doing the average Ukrainian people significant harm by prolonging this war and turning it into our proxy war with Russia for some stupid reason, and in the process we are ignoring China and bankrupting Europe which is going to cause a lot more long-term problems for the world as a whole. -
We? were hoping for something more than the @brents logical fallacy.RatherBeBrewing said:
Do you have any areas of expertise or knowledge at a level commensurate to mine regarding this topic? If so, please let me know so I can spend 10 minutes researching it in order to give you the worst take you’ve ever heard.HoustonHusky said:You can futility spin however you want...the country is divided. This was the voting map in 2014 when the war really started (i.e. the eastern Ukrainian got elected and the Western governments (and Western Ukraine) didn't like it, staged a revolt, and then both sides got angry and started fighting):
I'm using Russian propaganda but you quote the same news source to try and disprove my point (which is still correct as voting patterns and more recent language maps of Ukraine show). That makes sense. And if you look at reports of Ukrainian polls of internal media more radio, newspapers, and such are broadcast and published in Russian language within the country than Ukrainian. But still. Dying on this hill is a desperate attempt to rewrite reality and ignoring most of the background to the current conflict. And if your argument is now that Ukrainian language usage is changing, doesn't that mean you were lying your ass off before when you were trying to say all of the country is historically Ukrainian and not Russian? Circular logic rulz...
And keep telling us that Azov aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just like lots of zig-zag logos and tattoos and like holding their right arms up and across their chests...and groups like c14 aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just don't like those dark people and Jews and get govt funds (probably US govt $$$) to promote those views...and folks in the actual government like Andriy Parubiy didn't REALLY sponsor and promote those groups...it was just an accident they were hanging out with them and all the video and previous quotes of some horrible things are just coincidences and misconstrued by the media. And the fact Stepan Bandera, a Germany collaborator back in WW2 who was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of "undesirable people" got a national holiday is an absolute disgrace by any standard. You keep ignoring and discounting these simple facts because you can't accept the logical fallacy that Russia=guilty does not mean Ukraine=innocent.
And keep saying anyone who disagrees with you must be a Russian stooge...I'll keep saying listening to a bitter ex-wife rail against her ex-husband about how bad a person he is and how innocent she was to the entire brutally messy divorce while popping anti-anxiety meds between breaths (although at times interesting) is not the best way to get a realistic, unbiased opinion on the situation which blew up because both sides made some really bad decisions...
And I notice you refuse to comment on Zelensky's confrontation on national TV when the Azov crowd called him a loser and told him if he tried to remove any of them (from fighting in Donbas) they would ignore him and recruit more. And how he caved to them soon after which helped start this war. Seems like a modern, functioning govt the West should be sending billions of $$$ and weapons to...absolute nuts.
My simple point is that it is a mess and the best thing for everyone would be to find a solution that works for both sides (i.e. lop off the eastern 1/3 of Ukraine that is primarily Russian and let them go to Russia and make some agreement that Ukraine won't join NATO because they weren't going to anyway) to stop the fighting. And if the US is not pushing for this than the US should not be involved in any of it...we are doing the average Ukrainian people significant harm by prolonging this war and turning it into our proxy war with Russia for some stupid reason, and in the process we are ignoring China and bankrupting Europe which is going to cause a lot more long-term problems for the world as a whole.
TYFYS
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How many wars have you ran? That’s what I thought.RatherBeBrewing said:
Do you have any areas of expertise or knowledge at a level commensurate to mine regarding this topic? If so, please let me know so I can spend 10 minutes researching it in order to give you the worst take you’ve ever heard.HoustonHusky said:You can futility spin however you want...the country is divided. This was the voting map in 2014 when the war really started (i.e. the eastern Ukrainian got elected and the Western governments (and Western Ukraine) didn't like it, staged a revolt, and then both sides got angry and started fighting):
I'm using Russian propaganda but you quote the same news source to try and disprove my point (which is still correct as voting patterns and more recent language maps of Ukraine show). That makes sense. And if you look at reports of Ukrainian polls of internal media more radio, newspapers, and such are broadcast and published in Russian language within the country than Ukrainian. But still. Dying on this hill is a desperate attempt to rewrite reality and ignoring most of the background to the current conflict. And if your argument is now that Ukrainian language usage is changing, doesn't that mean you were lying your ass off before when you were trying to say all of the country is historically Ukrainian and not Russian? Circular logic rulz...
And keep telling us that Azov aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just like lots of zig-zag logos and tattoos and like holding their right arms up and across their chests...and groups like c14 aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just don't like those dark people and Jews and get govt funds (probably US govt $$$) to promote those views...and folks in the actual government like Andriy Parubiy didn't REALLY sponsor and promote those groups...it was just an accident they were hanging out with them and all the video and previous quotes of some horrible things are just coincidences and misconstrued by the media. And the fact Stepan Bandera, a Germany collaborator back in WW2 who was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of "undesirable people" got a national holiday is an absolute disgrace by any standard. You keep ignoring and discounting these simple facts because you can't accept the logical fallacy that Russia=guilty does not mean Ukraine=innocent.
And keep saying anyone who disagrees with you must be a Russian stooge...I'll keep saying listening to a bitter ex-wife rail against her ex-husband about how bad a person he is and how innocent she was to the entire brutally messy divorce while popping anti-anxiety meds between breaths (although at times interesting) is not the best way to get a realistic, unbiased opinion on the situation which blew up because both sides made some really bad decisions...
And I notice you refuse to comment on Zelensky's confrontation on national TV when the Azov crowd called him a loser and told him if he tried to remove any of them (from fighting in Donbas) they would ignore him and recruit more. And how he caved to them soon after which helped start this war. Seems like a modern, functioning govt the West should be sending billions of $$$ and weapons to...absolute nuts.
My simple point is that it is a mess and the best thing for everyone would be to find a solution that works for both sides (i.e. lop off the eastern 1/3 of Ukraine that is primarily Russian and let them go to Russia and make some agreement that Ukraine won't join NATO because they weren't going to anyway) to stop the fighting. And if the US is not pushing for this than the US should not be involved in any of it...we are doing the average Ukrainian people significant harm by prolonging this war and turning it into our proxy war with Russia for some stupid reason, and in the process we are ignoring China and bankrupting Europe which is going to cause a lot more long-term problems for the world as a whole. -
No one has ever explained to me why I'm supposed to give a fuck about Ukraine
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Same. Best answer I’ve gotten is human suffering. But since when do we care about that.Pitchfork51 said:No one has ever explained to me why I'm supposed to give a fuck about Ukraine
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Because we left the other wars and need to feed the military industrial complex. This one is awesome because we can feed billions to the military contractors and weapons manufacturers without actually putting Americans into the war. It’s the optimal situation. Afghanistan was feeding the machine but we were losing lives. That’s no good. She we had to get out of there and quickly replace it with something better. A popular war with leftists (did you put your Ukraine flag on your profile pic?) RUSSIA! Without killing American soldiers while funneling billions to the weapons companies. Why do you think Boeing is moving to Virginia?Pitchfork51 said:No one has ever explained to me why I'm supposed to give a fuck about Ukraine
I’m old enough to remember when $5billion to secure the southern border was wildly expensive that we simply couldn’t afford. -
Well yeah that’s obviously the reason. That and wag the dog. Still not one that I care about.MikeDamone said:
Because we left the other wars and need to feed the military industrial complex. This one is awesome because we can feed billions to the military contractors and weapons manufacturers without actually putting Americans into the war. It’s the optimal situation. Afghanistan was feeding the machine but we were losing lives. That’s no good. She we had to get out of there and quickly replace it with something better. A popular war with leftists (did you put your Ukraine flag on your profile pic?) RUSSIA! Without killing American soldiers while funneling billions to the weapons companies. Why do you think Boeing is moving to Virginia?Pitchfork51 said:No one has ever explained to me why I'm supposed to give a fuck about Ukraine
I’m old enough to remember when $5billion to secure the southern border was wildly expensive that we simply couldn’t afford. -
Wow…stepped in it there if you had any understanding of the bored history around here…a very snotty, academic view of things and people as well which may be part of your problem.RatherBeBrewing said:
Do you have any areas of expertise or knowledge at a level commensurate to mine regarding this topic? If so, please let me know so I can spend 10 minutes researching it in order to give you the worst take you’ve ever heard.HoustonHusky said:You can futility spin however you want...the country is divided. This was the voting map in 2014 when the war really started (i.e. the eastern Ukrainian got elected and the Western governments (and Western Ukraine) didn't like it, staged a revolt, and then both sides got angry and started fighting):
I'm using Russian propaganda but you quote the same news source to try and disprove my point (which is still correct as voting patterns and more recent language maps of Ukraine show). That makes sense. And if you look at reports of Ukrainian polls of internal media more radio, newspapers, and such are broadcast and published in Russian language within the country than Ukrainian. But still. Dying on this hill is a desperate attempt to rewrite reality and ignoring most of the background to the current conflict. And if your argument is now that Ukrainian language usage is changing, doesn't that mean you were lying your ass off before when you were trying to say all of the country is historically Ukrainian and not Russian? Circular logic rulz...
And keep telling us that Azov aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just like lots of zig-zag logos and tattoos and like holding their right arms up and across their chests...and groups like c14 aren't REALLY neo Nazis...they just don't like those dark people and Jews and get govt funds (probably US govt $$$) to promote those views...and folks in the actual government like Andriy Parubiy didn't REALLY sponsor and promote those groups...it was just an accident they were hanging out with them and all the video and previous quotes of some horrible things are just coincidences and misconstrued by the media. And the fact Stepan Bandera, a Germany collaborator back in WW2 who was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of "undesirable people" got a national holiday is an absolute disgrace by any standard. You keep ignoring and discounting these simple facts because you can't accept the logical fallacy that Russia=guilty does not mean Ukraine=innocent.
And keep saying anyone who disagrees with you must be a Russian stooge...I'll keep saying listening to a bitter ex-wife rail against her ex-husband about how bad a person he is and how innocent she was to the entire brutally messy divorce while popping anti-anxiety meds between breaths (although at times interesting) is not the best way to get a realistic, unbiased opinion on the situation which blew up because both sides made some really bad decisions...
And I notice you refuse to comment on Zelensky's confrontation on national TV when the Azov crowd called him a loser and told him if he tried to remove any of them (from fighting in Donbas) they would ignore him and recruit more. And how he caved to them soon after which helped start this war. Seems like a modern, functioning govt the West should be sending billions of $$$ and weapons to...absolute nuts.
My simple point is that it is a mess and the best thing for everyone would be to find a solution that works for both sides (i.e. lop off the eastern 1/3 of Ukraine that is primarily Russian and let them go to Russia and make some agreement that Ukraine won't join NATO because they weren't going to anyway) to stop the fighting. And if the US is not pushing for this than the US should not be involved in any of it...we are doing the average Ukrainian people significant harm by prolonging this war and turning it into our proxy war with Russia for some stupid reason, and in the process we are ignoring China and bankrupting Europe which is going to cause a lot more long-term problems for the world as a whole.
Helpful hint…try attacking the logic next time instead of the messenger…screaming Russia propaganda like a shrill Karen about anything you disagree with (most of which there is video evidence of…like Azov telling the current Panama Paper Ukrainian President on live TV to pound sand for wanting peace and wanting to withdraw troops or the C14 guy in an interview literally saying ‘I’m not a Nazi…I just don’t like those dark people and Jews’) isn’t the most effective rebuttal…
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Because the deep state folk launder their money there and their kids work in industries they know nothing about for big money. That's why!Pitchfork51 said:No one has ever explained to me why I'm supposed to give a fuck about Ukraine
