So, China is a 10 as a threat to the US. Already knocked trillions of the US economy with the chicom crud and being positioned by the dems as the biggest economic winner in the climate change fraud as we choke of the US economy as we shut down our fossil fuel industry and skyrocket US energy prices while giving a complete pass to the Chicoms as they dramatically increase their fossil fuel usage and benefit from their control over strategic metals and the leading producer of solar panels and wind turbines.
Russia is a 1 as a threat to the US. They aren't going to invade and we have much more of their strategic economic product than they do and we could choke them out economically if we wanted to. If we sent nothing to the Ukraine at best the Russians could have fun holding it. That would be their one bite of their dream of a new Soviet Union. Their military would be exhausted from taking the Ukraine. If the Euros wanted to remain free, they could spend their money to defend it. It doesn't matter to the US. China is what matters and we should use our limited resources to deal with the Chicoms and their control over most of economy, outside of oil and gas production. This isn't 1964. It's 2023 and Russia is done. Even worse demographics than the US and nothing but oil and gas production.
This is a much more nuanced take than the garbage Throbber is spouting, so kudos.
However - Russia would have been able to take and hold Ukraine rather easily without advising and supplies from US and Nato. They would also have taken over the Stans, Moldova, Belarus, and other places and next thing you know it's now USSR 2.0 that has all the confidence in the world and much better demographics.
As I said, the line needed to be drawn in the sand somewhere. I think it's completely reasonable to have Ukraine bleed Russia of manpower and teach them that this WW2 shit is not going to be tolerated in 2023.
You're right about China, but China is watching with surprise as Russia military tech is getting its ass obliterated by old US technology.
The line in the sand can be at the Polish border (a member of NATO, by the way). Ukraine - not a member of NATO. And, let's not forget this shit is pushing Turkey away from NATO. But but DEMOCRACY for Zelensky. Nuance that.
Now, about those Ukraine bio weapons labs and corrupt money laundering....how "nuanced' does one have to be to be truthful about that?
Your black/white, Ukraine good/Russia bad has no nuance whatsoever.
The US guaranteed Ukraine protection in exchange for giving up their nukes in the 90s.
I'm glad you guys want USSR 2.0 and think that is a good idea. Fucks sake. Such incredibly small minded thinking.
Also - the Ukraine bio weapons stuff is pure Russian propaganda that you fell for. Congrats on that.
Money laundering you're right on. Ukraine is corrupt as hell. That does not give Russia free reign to go on a murderous rampage in their country.
sure.gif
And perhaps you need to do some research on the Azov Regiment on just whom is murdering whom.
There is absolutely 0 evidence that bioweapons were being developed in Ukraine. You fell hook, line, and sinker for that Russian BS.
Very familiar with Azov Regiment and their Neo Nazi bullshit. They absolutely deserve to be called out on that. However, Azov was hanging out in Mariupol and defending against Russian incursions since 2014. Azov isn't the aggressor in this conflict.
Additionally, Azov has been more or less purged of Nazis.
On the flip side, are you familiar with the Wagner PMC group?
Azov more or less purged of Nazis? Says who? Maybe Congress needs to be informed of their new leaf. It’s laughable the idea that Ukraine is kicking Russian ass.
Where they gain somewhere they lose in multiple areas. Where are you getting your Ukraine kicking ass info?
"In 2021, the Foreign Policy report noted the origin of the name "Wagner" to be unknown.[51] Others say the group's name comes from Utkin's own call sign "Wagner", reportedly after the German composer Richard Wagner, which Utkin is said to have chosen due to his passion for the Third Reich (Wagner being Adolf Hitler's favorite composer).[79][80] As such, some believe he is a neo-Nazi,[81][82] with The Economist reporting that Utkin has several Nazi tattoos.[80]"
Good grief. They’re trying hard to clean up their image. Right up there with the meth addict trying hard to kick their habit.
Why do you think we never hear about Ukraine getting their asses kicked? We only hear about how terribly the Russians are doing. Give it some thought.
When Ukraine had their victory is September it came at great cost and then they lost territory in other regions.
Are you under the impression there are people rooting for Russia here? If you are, you’re a fucking moron.
Keep on telling me you have never listened to a military strategist explain what Russia is doing, without telling me. Put the establishment bong down. Ukraine winning is a fantasy.
Even your guy Gen. Milley says both sides will eventually come to the table. The loss of lives for both is too great to continue much longer.
But the map! Why does Russia take territory and then leave territory to take new territory?
You have 0 idea what you are talking about. Russia is abandoning territory because they are getting routed, not because they are playing 5d chess.
This conflict is like the US invading Mexico and being unable to take Mexico city.
Pathetic.
They “retreated” to a high ground that was easier to defend while they drafted and trained conscripts.
Also to not be in a flood plain under a dam that could have wiped out its forces if blown up.
You really seem to be a beacon of knowledge on this.
So, China is a 10 as a threat to the US. Already knocked trillions of the US economy with the chicom crud and being positioned by the dems as the biggest economic winner in the climate change fraud as we choke of the US economy as we shut down our fossil fuel industry and skyrocket US energy prices while giving a complete pass to the Chicoms as they dramatically increase their fossil fuel usage and benefit from their control over strategic metals and the leading producer of solar panels and wind turbines.
Russia is a 1 as a threat to the US. They aren't going to invade and we have much more of their strategic economic product than they do and we could choke them out economically if we wanted to. If we sent nothing to the Ukraine at best the Russians could have fun holding it. That would be their one bite of their dream of a new Soviet Union. Their military would be exhausted from taking the Ukraine. If the Euros wanted to remain free, they could spend their money to defend it. It doesn't matter to the US. China is what matters and we should use our limited resources to deal with the Chicoms and their control over most of economy, outside of oil and gas production. This isn't 1964. It's 2023 and Russia is done. Even worse demographics than the US and nothing but oil and gas production.
This is a much more nuanced take than the garbage Throbber is spouting, so kudos.
However - Russia would have been able to take and hold Ukraine rather easily without advising and supplies from US and Nato. They would also have taken over the Stans, Moldova, Belarus, and other places and next thing you know it's now USSR 2.0 that has all the confidence in the world and much better demographics.
As I said, the line needed to be drawn in the sand somewhere. I think it's completely reasonable to have Ukraine bleed Russia of manpower and teach them that this WW2 shit is not going to be tolerated in 2023.
You're right about China, but China is watching with surprise as Russia military tech is getting its ass obliterated by old US technology.
The line in the sand can be at the Polish border (a member of NATO, by the way). Ukraine - not a member of NATO. And, let's not forget this shit is pushing Turkey away from NATO. But but DEMOCRACY for Zelensky. Nuance that.
Now, about those Ukraine bio weapons labs and corrupt money laundering....how "nuanced' does one have to be to be truthful about that?
Your black/white, Ukraine good/Russia bad has no nuance whatsoever.
The US guaranteed Ukraine protection in exchange for giving up their nukes in the 90s.
I'm glad you guys want USSR 2.0 and think that is a good idea. Fucks sake. Such incredibly small minded thinking.
Also - the Ukraine bio weapons stuff is pure Russian propaganda that you fell for. Congrats on that.
Money laundering you're right on. Ukraine is corrupt as hell. That does not give Russia free reign to go on a murderous rampage in their country.
sure.gif
And perhaps you need to do some research on the Azov Regiment on just whom is murdering whom.
There is absolutely 0 evidence that bioweapons were being developed in Ukraine. You fell hook, line, and sinker for that Russian BS.
Very familiar with Azov Regiment and their Neo Nazi bullshit. They absolutely deserve to be called out on that. However, Azov was hanging out in Mariupol and defending against Russian incursions since 2014. Azov isn't the aggressor in this conflict.
Additionally, Azov has been more or less purged of Nazis.
On the flip side, are you familiar with the Wagner PMC group?
Azov more or less purged of Nazis? Says who? Maybe Congress needs to be informed of their new leaf. It’s laughable the idea that Ukraine is kicking Russian ass.
Where they gain somewhere they lose in multiple areas. Where are you getting your Ukraine kicking ass info?
"In 2021, the Foreign Policy report noted the origin of the name "Wagner" to be unknown.[51] Others say the group's name comes from Utkin's own call sign "Wagner", reportedly after the German composer Richard Wagner, which Utkin is said to have chosen due to his passion for the Third Reich (Wagner being Adolf Hitler's favorite composer).[79][80] As such, some believe he is a neo-Nazi,[81][82] with The Economist reporting that Utkin has several Nazi tattoos.[80]"
Good grief. They’re trying hard to clean up their image. Right up there with the meth addict trying hard to kick their habit.
Why do you think we never hear about Ukraine getting their asses kicked? We only hear about how terribly the Russians are doing. Give it some thought.
When Ukraine had their victory is September it came at great cost and then they lost territory in other regions.
Are you under the impression there are people rooting for Russia here? If you are, you’re a fucking moron.
Keep on telling me you have never listened to a military strategist explain what Russia is doing, without telling me. Put the establishment bong down. Ukraine winning is a fantasy.
Even your guy Gen. Milley says both sides will eventually come to the table. The loss of lives for both is too great to continue much longer.
But the map! Why does Russia take territory and then leave territory to take new territory?
You have 0 idea what you are talking about. Russia is abandoning territory because they are getting routed, not because they are playing 5d chess.
This conflict is like the US invading Mexico and being unable to take Mexico city.
Pathetic.
They “retreated” to a high ground that was easier to defend while they drafted and trained conscripts.
Also to not be in a flood plain under a dam that could have wiped out its forces if blown up.
You really seem to be a beacon of knowledge on this.
TYFYE
I'm sorry...they initially went full send at Kyiv, sent in VDV paratroopers behind enemy lines, columns of tanks and riot policemen...in order to retreat to the high ground?
They captured Kherson in February of 2022, dug miles of trenches, and then got ousted in the summer when Ukraine attacked...because they wanted to retreat to high ground on the other side of the river? which is just as fucking flat as Kherson?
"I wanted to say once again, addressing the residents of the Kherson region, that Russia is here forever. There should be no doubt about that," Senator Andrei Turchak, United Russia's general council secretary, said Friday. "There will be no return to the past. We will live together, develop this rich area—rich in historical heritage, rich in our people who live here."
I guess they wanted to control that region for a little bit, but then the high ground came calling.
Meanwhile, in Kharkiv, the second largest Ukranian city less than 100 miles from the Russian border....
Oh wow...looks like I was wrong. Kharkiv is an entire 30 fucking miles from the Russian border. And Russian got its ass annihilated and had to completely retreat back across their own border.
""A most difficult week on the front," presenter Dmitry Kiselyov said at the opening of his prime time Sunday night program.
Under a studio backdrop reading “Regrouping”, Kiselyov said that Russian forces had abandoned “previously liberated settlements" under pressure from "superior enemy forces”.
In a rare show of dissent, Boris Nadezhdin, a former liberal politician and regular talk show guest said on the Gazprom-owned NTV channel, that Putin had been misled by advisers into thinking that Ukraine would quickly surrender, and urged immediate peace talks to end the conflict."
@pawz I can't emphasize this enough. You do not know what you are talking about. You are ignorant.
But ma "nuclear threat" is literally a RT talking point aimed at audiences in the West to make housewives nervous about supporting Ukraine with war material. It's unmanly to say the least that so many here are hiding under the rug of appeasement out of political tribalism. Trump was for big swinging dick deterence and so am I.
The fact is that actual Nato would wipe the fucking floor with Russia in a traditional conflict. That's pretty fucking obvious at this point since Russia can't even take a third world tin pot cleptocracy like Ukraine even before the Western support arrived.
That means that the nuclear card is literally Russia's last option for deterence and keeping Nato out of actual boots on ground. They won't use it for anything short of existential threat such as ze' Germans rolling on Moscow again.
"Losing" the war in Ukraine isn't an existential threat for Putin. He has achieved the goal of "de-nazification" and whatever other RT decides to propagandize. If anything, he's used the war to consolidate power, lock Russia down further, rid it of decent, and eliminate rivals. See what he's currently doing to Pregotion and Wagner in Backhmut after he got too upity.
Come at me bro with trying to tell me I don't know shit or need to do research. I've been following this since the Orange revolution. Go Google it bitch.
If yous guysm can't see the realpolitik advantage of letting Ukrainians kill Russians then there's not much else to say. The only thing better would be if China invaded the parts of Manchuria Russia holds and they started killing one another.
It's the same reason we gave stingers to the Mujahideen and it will end the same way for Russia. Maybe they'll "anex" the east of Ukraine but it's going to cost them their empire in the long run.
No real fucks from me where that line ends up as long as Russia continues to break its own back and get bled out.
Btw, we are sending the same stingers from the 70's and 80's that were still sitting on the shelves.
Putin won't use nukes. I could write a whole thread on why he won't.
We shouldn't be guaranteeing Ukrainian pensions or any number of other stupid money laundering schemes. Differentiate that between sending old military hardware set for disposal.
Tldr when two of your enemies go to war a long bloody stalemate is something you support with goods not boots.
We are scheduled to sent Ukraine brand new Bradleys and M1 tanks. We have already sent state of the art artillery systems. Why wouldn't Putin use tactical nukes if his back is against the wall? Your thread shouldn't start with, "because he won't".
PS This isn't the 1970s and how did Afghanistan work out for us after the commies left? PPS There are a lot of things we shouldn't be doing but having anti-American POS that are making a fortune in Ukraine run the show, then we are funding all sorts of sh*t including Ukrainian theftocrats.
Both Bradley's and M1's are decades old and we aren't sending them the ones with the latest gear. Hth.
We sent them an artillery system from the 70's and 80's with none of the latest ranged systems. Himar's and by extension rocket systems are extremely old tech by US standards.
Tldr version, start a thread if you want the full version but Putin won't do anything that puts Putin 6ft under. This is not how nuclear deterence works. He isn't remotely close to losing power in Russia over this war so there's not really a corner there like you imagine.
Yeah, these people think that neutered HIMARs, Bradleys, and M1s are state of the art US tech and not Desert Storm dusty relics
Really a great litmus test for not knowing what the fuck they are talking about
Comments
Also to not be in a flood plain under a dam that could have wiped out its forces if blown up.
You really seem to be a beacon of knowledge on this.
TYFYE
I'm sorry...they initially went full send at Kyiv, sent in VDV paratroopers behind enemy lines, columns of tanks and riot policemen...in order to retreat to the high ground?
They captured Kherson in February of 2022, dug miles of trenches, and then got ousted in the summer when Ukraine attacked...because they wanted to retreat to high ground on the other side of the river? which is just as fucking flat as Kherson?
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-here-forever-putin-ally-andrei-turchak-kherson-1704311
"I wanted to say once again, addressing the residents of the Kherson region, that Russia is here forever. There should be no doubt about that," Senator Andrei Turchak, United Russia's general council secretary, said Friday. "There will be no return to the past. We will live together, develop this rich area—rich in historical heritage, rich in our people who live here."
I guess they wanted to control that region for a little bit, but then the high ground came calling.
Meanwhile, in Kharkiv, the second largest Ukranian city less than 100 miles from the Russian border....
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/12/ukraines-counterattack-around-kharkiv-inflicts-defeat-on-russia.html
Oh wow...looks like I was wrong. Kharkiv is an entire 30 fucking miles from the Russian border. And Russian got its ass annihilated and had to completely retreat back across their own border.
https://carnegieendowment.org/politika/87900
https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/russian-state-media-grapples-with-kharkiv-defeats-2022-09-12/
""A most difficult week on the front," presenter Dmitry Kiselyov said at the opening of his prime time Sunday night program.
Under a studio backdrop reading “Regrouping”, Kiselyov said that Russian forces had abandoned “previously liberated settlements" under pressure from "superior enemy forces”.
In a rare show of dissent, Boris Nadezhdin, a former liberal politician and regular talk show guest said on the Gazprom-owned NTV channel, that Putin had been misled by advisers into thinking that Ukraine would quickly surrender, and urged immediate peace talks to end the conflict."
@pawz I can't emphasize this enough. You do not know what you are talking about. You are ignorant.
Even old as fuck construction industry relics like yourself are wrong from time to time
The fact is that actual Nato would wipe the fucking floor with Russia in a traditional conflict. That's pretty fucking obvious at this point since Russia can't even take a third world tin pot cleptocracy like Ukraine even before the Western support arrived.
That means that the nuclear card is literally Russia's last option for deterence and keeping Nato out of actual boots on ground. They won't use it for anything short of existential threat such as ze' Germans rolling on Moscow again.
"Losing" the war in Ukraine isn't an existential threat for Putin. He has achieved the goal of "de-nazification" and whatever other RT decides to propagandize. If anything, he's used the war to consolidate power, lock Russia down further, rid it of decent, and eliminate rivals. See what he's currently doing to Pregotion and Wagner in Backhmut after he got too upity.
Come at me bro with trying to tell me I don't know shit or need to do research. I've been following this since the Orange revolution. Go Google it bitch.
No need to answer.
Enjoy watching your Russian Nazi dipshits get blown the fuck up in some of the dumbest attacks the world has ever seen.
I tried to give you an out by ignoring it. But here we are.
Hope this helps.
I think we? are done here.
Holy fuckall.
Continue to ignore that post. It's glaring.
Because you clearly said, the US blew it up. And your pals Russia, they say it is the UK.
So, you're fucking wrong. Yet again. Take the L and stay the fuck out of topics you don't know a fucking thing about.
"Russia retreated to the high ground"
LOL
Great argument dumbfuck
PGOS struggling with talking points we destroyed months ago
Always nice for a Cocaine Mitch cocksucker to show up