MarinersFS
Comments
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Shit. 78-84CollegeDoog said:
Great 164 game season as always.dhdawg said:it doesn't look like they're going to make any more moves. So the lineup is probably going to be
1. Miller SS
2. Seager 3B
3. Cano 2B
4. Hart DH
decent 1-2-3-4
then the fucking dreckfest begins
5. Morrison LF
6. Smoak 1B (this loser should've been gone 2 years ago)
7. Zunino C
8. Ackley CF
9. Romero RF
SP:
Hernandez
Iwakuma
Walker
Paxton
#5 will be the only move they make
Rotation isn't horrible
Bullpen is awful, not one player in the pen isn't making limited salary, could've easily signed a Downs, or a Boone Logan, or a Balfour for barely over 5 million.
the best I can see is 78-86 -
1) It's popular to rip on Bavasi's signings of Sexson and Beltre. Sexson was fine for his first 2 years. Beltre is a potential future HOFer depending on how the rest of his career plays out. Many made Beltre the poster child for Mariner failures instead of realizing that there wasn't anything around him and as a result he pressed trying to do too much. We asked him to hit 3rd and 4th when he's a 5th or 6th hitter.
2) I like the moves to get Hart and Morrison this offseason. Problem is that you are foolish to have expectations for them without solid backup plans given their injury histories. We don't have backup plans. Smoak isn't part of the solution.
3) I have a feeling that Ackley will have a breakout year this year.
4) They really need to move Nick Franklin into something useful.
5) Other than the fact that with Walker and Paxton in the rotation you are going to watch their innings, the rotation is looking to be a solid strength that should keep you in games (particularly if they would invest in going after a solid #3 that takes the pressure off of Walker and Paxton ... but that would be fucking smart and not FS
6) In today's game of baseball, you are a fucking idiot as a GM if you don't invest in a solid bullpen ... it's often the difference between good teams and bad teams. -
franklin will probably be moved before the season begins, I just can't see a stop for him.
Ackley could break out, but he just isn't an OFer.
There is not one OF out of Gutierrez, Saunders, Morrison, Hart, Ackley, and Almonte that can start on a playoff caliber team, not one.
The bullpen is garbage, I repeat they are paying minimum salary to every single member, look at what having a good bullpen did for the pirates last year.
Jack Z has been advertised as some scouting genius, but the only draft pick that has actually proved he can produce at a ML level is Seager, so his drafting is probably average.
He can't make a trade to save his life, and his FA signings have been a disaster -
In today's game, a good rotation + a strong bullpen makes up for a mediocre offense ... particularly if you are pitching in a pitchers park like Safeco.
You'd think that what Tampa and Oakland do is fucking rocket science. -
You need at least a mediocre offense, not a historically bad one. Not to mention, the Mariners rotation isn't as good as either of those teams, and their bullpen is a disaster compared to theirs.Tequilla said:In today's game, a good rotation + a strong bullpen makes up for a mediocre offense ... particularly if you are pitching in a pitchers park like Safeco.
You'd think that what Tampa and Oakland do is fucking rocket science.
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I stopped reading here.Tequilla said:1) It's popular to rip on Bavasi's signings of Sexson and Beltre. Sexson was fine for his first 2 years. Beltre is a potential future HOFer depending on how the rest of his career plays out.
TequillaFS -
I almost did too but I went and looked at Beltre's stats again. He had a pretty good average WAR in his 5 years with the M's and has 376 HR's at age 34. He could be a HOF based on stats but I don't think the BBWAA would elect him because of steroid rumors.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
I stopped reading here.Tequilla said:1) It's popular to rip on Bavasi's signings of Sexson and Beltre. Sexson was fine for his first 2 years. Beltre is a potential future HOFer depending on how the rest of his career plays out.
TequillaFS
Sexson....uhhhh. No. Not good at all. -
I'm assuming at this point that Beltre was another Biogenesis client that got away with it.
His sudden resurgence with a known doping team speaks volumes. -
Beltre's case is dependent on his being one of the best defensive third basemen in the history of the game. It's unlikely that he'd be elected, but not unbelievable.
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You would also have to ignore the significant statistical evidence that suggests that he's a juicer.doogsinparadise said:Beltre's case is dependent on his being one of the best defensive third basemen in the history of the game. It's unlikely that he'd be elected, but not unbelievable.
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It's FS to say that Beltre isn't a potential HOFer without taking a look at what his numbers actually are. He's got a chance to get to 500 HRs. He'll end up having a top 20 amount of doubles in his career. His glove is/was elite. The steroid rumors and whatnot will dog any player that has played in the last 20 years.
Beltre was never the problem with the Mariners.
Everybody creams their sweatpants over Kyle Seager hoping that he'll put up more or less 30 and 100. Beltre did that. Yet, because he hit 48 HRs the year before coming to Seattle, everybody looked at that as what he should do EVERY year. Beltre's more or less shown over his career that he's more or less a 30 and 100 guy. That's who he is as a hitter.
It's not hard to make an argument that Beltre may be one of the Top 5 3B to ever play the game. -
Possibly the worst post I've ever read. And I read death2ducks posts.Tequilla said:It's FS to say that Beltre isn't a potential HOFer without taking a look at what his numbers actually are. He's got a chance to get to 500 HRs. He'll end up having a top 20 amount of doubles in his career. His glove is/was elite. The steroid rumors and whatnot will dog any player that has played in the last 20 years.
Beltre was never the problem with the Mariners.
Everybody creams their sweatpants over Kyle Seager hoping that he'll put up more or less 30 and 100. Beltre did that. Yet, because he hit 48 HRs the year before coming to Seattle, everybody looked at that as what he should do EVERY year. Beltre's more or less shown over his career that he's more or less a 30 and 100 guy. That's who he is as a hitter.
It's not hard to make an argument that Beltre may be one of the Top 5 3B to ever play the game. -
What about PLSS Redskins poasts?allpurpleallgold said:
Possibly the worst post I've ever read. And I read death2ducks posts.Tequilla said:It's FS to say that Beltre isn't a potential HOFer without taking a look at what his numbers actually are. He's got a chance to get to 500 HRs. He'll end up having a top 20 amount of doubles in his career. His glove is/was elite. The steroid rumors and whatnot will dog any player that has played in the last 20 years.
Beltre was never the problem with the Mariners.
Everybody creams their sweatpants over Kyle Seager hoping that he'll put up more or less 30 and 100. Beltre did that. Yet, because he hit 48 HRs the year before coming to Seattle, everybody looked at that as what he should do EVERY year. Beltre's more or less shown over his career that he's more or less a 30 and 100 guy. That's who he is as a hitter.
It's not hard to make an argument that Beltre may be one of the Top 5 3B to ever play the game.
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APAG,
You can say that it's the worst post ever ... but at what point was anything in the post factually incorrect? -
Juicer or not, he will have a HOF caliber resume, which is pretty much all you can say about anyone these days. You also have to consider he's been a phenomenal defensive 3B for most of his career.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
You would also have to ignore the significant statistical evidence that suggests that he's a juicer.doogsinparadise said:Beltre's case is dependent on his being one of the best defensive third basemen in the history of the game. It's unlikely that he'd be elected, but not unbelievable.
Contrary to the popular narrative, he was worth every penny the M's paid him, unlike just about every other high priced free agent they've signed in the past 10 years. -
The mariners SHOULD sign Morales, instead they are going to Sign a 33 year old juicer who's worthless outside of Texas. Cruz will be a complete waste of money
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Wow, I actually agree with the Rodney signing, I guess even dreck organizations make good moves from time to time
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His career OPS is .812. Which is good for 365th all time. Top 5 third baseman of all time.Tequilla said:APAG,
You can say that it's the worst post ever ... but at what point was anything in the post factually incorrect? -
If he stopped playing today, he's a top 10 3B for sure. He's still got a few years to accumulate. Hard to say for sure where he'll end up ... but he'll end up somewhere in that discussion point.
If you want to look at a career OPS of .812, that's fine. How much of that is tied to the fact that he got to the big leagues at a super young age and that 2 of the parks where he played most of his career (Dodger Stadium and Safeco Field) are far from being hitter parks?
Beltre's a comfortable punching bag for most people that like to blame his contract and his "lack" of production in those years as why the Mariners weren't successful. Bottom line though is that he was the furthest thing from the Mariners problems over those years. -
He's Robin Ventura.
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Guti is out for the season.
I think water is wet needs to be replaced by gutierrez is hurt. (GIH) -
Yup, I was just about to say there is a better chance for water being dry than Guti being healthy.dhdawg said:Guti is out for the season.
I think water is wet needs to be replaced by gutierrez is hurt. (GIH) -
Not a bad comp, actually. Beltre has 65.1 career WAR to Ventura's 56.8. Surprisingly, Ventura actually gets more value from his defense, so even if you don't trust defensive statistics Beltre comes out as the superior player.allpurpleallgold said:He's Robin Ventura.
The biggest difference is that Ventura is done while Beltre should have another 2 or 3 solid seasons in him. Beltre should end up in the 74-80 range in WAR, which is going to put him a couple orders of magnitude ahead of Ventura. If Beltre does hit 75ish, he'll be a lock for eventual inclusion into the Hall, baring strong steroid evidence. My guess is that over time the guys like Bagwell who are being kept out based purely on statistical suspicion will get in. Beltre as well.
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Look at their stats, WAR, and defensive WAR. Beltre is far superior. I bet Beltre has another .300, 30 HR season this year too for another 5 in the WAR category. I don't know why you are underestimating Beltre. His last 3 years for the M's, he hit 25, 26, 25 HR's. If he played for Boston, Texas, or Chicago (like Ventura) then, he probably would have hit at least 30 HR's in those seasons.allpurpleallgold said:He's Robin Ventura.
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seriously though the guy does have a serious health problem and needs to retire, it's on the team for resigning the guy
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I can't believe how many fucking stupid poasters in this thread take Beltre's numbers at face value with respect to his Hall of Fame chances.allpurpleallgold said:He's Robin Ventura without the asskicking by Nolan Ryan.
Dude was more obvious about his juicing than Edgar Martinez was.
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It's not IF you cheat ... it's whether you get CAUGHT cheating
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I don't actually agree, but who cares? You're comparing his numbers to a bunch of other dudes who were probably juicing, too. Steve Emtman probably roided. IDGAF.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
I can't believe how many fucking stupid poasters in this thread take Beltre's numbers at face value with respect to his Hall of Fame chances.allpurpleallgold said:He's Robin Ventura without the asskicking by Nolan Ryan.
Dude was more obvious about his juicing than Edgar Martinez was.
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A lot of them are juicing. Pitchers too. To speculate is fucking stupid.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
I can't believe how many fucking stupid poasters in this thread take Beltre's numbers at face value with respect to his Hall of Fame chances.allpurpleallgold said:He's Robin Ventura without the asskicking by Nolan Ryan.
Dude was more obvious about his juicing than Edgar Martinez was.
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When it comes to the HOF, you're not comparing apples to apples.dnc said:
I don't actually agree, but who cares? You're comparing his numbers to a bunch of other dudes who were probably juicing, too. Steve Emtman probably roided. IDGAF.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
I can't believe how many fucking stupid poasters in this thread take Beltre's numbers at face value with respect to his Hall of Fame chances.allpurpleallgold said:He's Robin Ventura without the asskicking by Nolan Ryan.
Dude was more obvious about his juicing than Edgar Martinez was.
That's why the Steroid Era sucks and it stinks and it sucks.
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