My basic elevator speech hasn't changed much since HS...
Earth = 4.5 billion years old
Simple life emerges 600 million years ago
Dinosaurs for like 200 millions years
Early modern homo sapiens don't arrive until 200,000 years ago
Then 2,000 years ago in the most bass akwards part of the world (not Rome or China mind you) amongst a bunch of bronze age goat herders, the most important even in the history of the planet occurs, followed by a Roman Emperor needing a new state religion three centuries later.
I need more evidence guys and can't take on faith. But that's just me, and believing that we're simply worm dirt when we die ain't for everyone.
Mrs. Snow is a confirmed papist, but more of a deist these days. I told her she can take on a new boyfriend in heaven if I don't get in.
ATBSJBS, I'm thankful for the Protestant Reformation and the good that it did in creating the modern world.
Some say it takes more faith not to believe than to believe.
Well, yeah, if I’m wrong, the consequences are dire. Eternal damnation sounds like a real bummer.
The point is, you have faith.
I don’t stress about it much. The burden of proof is not on me after all. I don’t make any metaphysical claims.
I didn’t assert you stressed. Just stated a fact. Yet some would suggest “life emerges” is a metaphysical claim.
Some are wrong. There's no metaphysical claim with "life emerges", rather, we're? just saying we don't know yet (and may never know). But not knowing the answer doesn't equate to evidence of magic or that the laws of physics were suspended this one time.
At the end of the day, I stand by Saint Chris Hitchens point, which is to say that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Yes… it can be. Which is why “life emerges” 600 million years ago requires faith. Because it can be dismissed without evidence.
My bro in law has a PHD in chemistry. From UW in the mid 90s. He runs a big department of about 200 people doing top secret shit. His journey to Christianity was chinteresting (or not). The deeper he got into science and his field, he could no longer ignore that God exists. Until he then accepted Christ. He’s not the only scientist I know who went through this. It doesn’t prove or disprove anything. I just find it compelling when people deep into chemistry, biology, archaeology, astronomy, etc either become Christian’s or their faith deepens.
It takes a whole lot more faith to believe the entirety of the universe came together by a series of unrelated cells, minerals, atoms and events than to accept that perhaps there is some master designer that built it.
That’s my point. Im an atheist though. But I understand the benefit religion has in organization and maintaining a civil society throughout history and today. I’m not anti religion. Atheists who lose their shit over religion are fucking annoying. They are usually arrogant smug pricks as well.
Read my first post in this thread.
I appreciate my mainline Protestant heritage.
Sounds like you have picked your pascal's wager quadrant and are ok with the lower left.
My basic elevator speech hasn't changed much since HS...
Earth = 4.5 billion years old
Simple life emerges 600 million years ago
Dinosaurs for like 200 millions years
Early modern homo sapiens don't arrive until 200,000 years ago
Then 2,000 years ago in the most bass akwards part of the world (not Rome or China mind you) amongst a bunch of bronze age goat herders, the most important even in the history of the planet occurs, followed by a Roman Emperor needing a new state religion three centuries later.
I need more evidence guys and can't take on faith. But that's just me, and believing that we're simply worm dirt when we die ain't for everyone.
Mrs. Snow is a confirmed papist, but more of a deist these days. I told her she can take on a new boyfriend in heaven if I don't get in.
ATBSJBS, I'm thankful for the Protestant Reformation and the good that it did in creating the modern world.
Some say it takes more faith not to believe than to believe.
Well, yeah, if I’m wrong, the consequences are dire. Eternal damnation sounds like a real bummer.
The point is, you have faith.
I don’t stress about it much. The burden of proof is not on me after all. I don’t make any metaphysical claims.
I didn’t assert you stressed. Just stated a fact. Yet some would suggest “life emerges” is a metaphysical claim.
Some are wrong. There's no metaphysical claim with "life emerges", rather, we're? just saying we don't know yet (and may never know). But not knowing the answer doesn't equate to evidence of magic or that the laws of physics were suspended this one time.
At the end of the day, I stand by Saint Chris Hitchens point, which is to say that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Yes… it can be. Which is why “life emerges” 600 million years ago requires faith. Because it can be dismissed without evidence.
My bro in law has a PHD in chemistry. From UW in the mid 90s. He runs a big department of about 200 people doing top secret shit. His journey to Christianity was chinteresting (or not). The deeper he got into science and his field, he could no longer ignore that God exists. Until he then accepted Christ. He’s not the only scientist I know who went through this. It doesn’t prove or disprove anything. I just find it compelling when people deep into chemistry, biology, archaeology, astronomy, etc either become Christian’s or their faith deepens.
It takes a whole lot more faith to believe the entirety of the universe came together by a series of unrelated cells, minerals, atoms and events than to accept that perhaps there is some master designer that built it.
That’s my point. Im an atheist though. But I understand the benefit religion has in organization and maintaining a civil society throughout history and today. I’m not anti religion. Atheists who lose their shit over religion are fucking annoying. They are usually arrogant smug pricks as well. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a stupid schtick. Some very intelligent and enlightened people throughout history aren’t so dismissive and flippant about it. Calling people of faith idiots show inability to think abstractly and see a picture.
My basic elevator speech hasn't changed much since HS...
Earth = 4.5 billion years old
Simple life emerges 600 million years ago
Dinosaurs for like 200 millions years
Early modern homo sapiens don't arrive until 200,000 years ago
Then 2,000 years ago in the most bass akwards part of the world (not Rome or China mind you) amongst a bunch of bronze age goat herders, the most important even in the history of the planet occurs, followed by a Roman Emperor needing a new state religion three centuries later.
I need more evidence guys and can't take on faith. But that's just me, and believing that we're simply worm dirt when we die ain't for everyone.
Mrs. Snow is a confirmed papist, but more of a deist these days. I told her she can take on a new boyfriend in heaven if I don't get in.
ATBSJBS, I'm thankful for the Protestant Reformation and the good that it did in creating the modern world.
Some say it takes more faith not to believe than to believe.
Well, yeah, if I’m wrong, the consequences are dire. Eternal damnation sounds like a real bummer.
The point is, you have faith.
I don’t stress about it much. The burden of proof is not on me after all. I don’t make any metaphysical claims.
I didn’t assert you stressed. Just stated a fact. Yet some would suggest “life emerges” is a metaphysical claim.
Some are wrong. There's no metaphysical claim with "life emerges", rather, we're? just saying we don't know yet (and may never know). But not knowing the answer doesn't equate to evidence of magic or that the laws of physics were suspended this one time.
At the end of the day, I stand by Saint Chris Hitchens point, which is to say that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Yes… it can be. Which is why “life emerges” 600 million years ago requires faith. Because it can be dismissed without evidence.
My bro in law has a PHD in chemistry. From UW in the mid 90s. He runs a big department of about 200 people doing top secret shit. His journey to Christianity was chinteresting (or not). The deeper he got into science and his field, he could no longer ignore that God exists. Until he then accepted Christ. He’s not the only scientist I know who went through this. It doesn’t prove or disprove anything. I just find it compelling when people deep into chemistry, biology, archaeology, astronomy, etc either become Christian’s or their faith deepens.
It takes a whole lot more faith to believe the entirety of the universe came together by a series of unrelated cells, minerals, atoms and events than to accept that perhaps there is some master designer that built it.
How do you figure? That we haven't unraveled the mysteries of the Big Bang doesn't make it more likely that there was/is a master designer than not. And furthermore, it's big leap to get from "the origins of the Universe are complicated" to the Nicaean Creed.
It’s also a big leap to think it started from nothing. Like I said, I’m an atheist. Mostly because I’m lazy. If I were motivated I’d probably be agnostic and if I had any ambition I’d probably be a Christian.
I get the feeling any minute now one of these sides is going to convince the other. We're almost there...
The internet basically killed the argument. Kind of weird to see it pop back up
Everyone knows both sides by heart by now
Religious people are stupid, ignorant, hateful, and intolerant. They want to force women to have babies, but disappear when it’s time to take care of them.
That’s the narrative I’m sticking with. It just sounds so good at cocktail parties.
Deist - some God of some sort is out there, somewhere
I went to church (Presbyterian) as a child with my mom, while dad played golf. When mom learned to play golf, we stopped going to church, and I started playing golf. I've spent a lot of time in Catholic Churches, looking back, I apparently have a predilection (or fetish) for Catholic girls (Joe's Garage, IIRC @Yella)...
I think religion today is like a lot of things in life...initial great intentions, rules, customs, a sense of order, and as those great intentions move forward, people/institutions have found a way to monetize and market them to the masses as "THIS is the way, and it's the ONLY way". My wife was raised Catholic, but we don't go to church because we didn't marry in the church, and it guilts the shit out of her (the Catholic way). My problem is with the "True Believers" trying to get others to convert. Our neighbors dropped that on us early, and I put a stop to that convo in a hurry. I have no issue with what they believe, until they try to make me believe as they do.
I am conflicted about a lot of it, but I am not conflicted in my personal beliefs, so I got that going for me, which is nice...
I went to church (Presbyterian) as a child with my mom, while dad played golf. When mom learned to play golf, we stopped going to church, and I started playing golf. I've spent a lot of time in Catholic Churches, looking back, I apparently have a predilection (or fetish) for Catholic girls (Joe's Garage, IIRC @Yella)...
I think religion today is like a lot of things in life...initial great intentions, rules, customs, a sense of order, and as those great intentions move forward, people/institutions have found a way to monetize and market them to the masses as "THIS is the way, and it's the ONLY way". My wife was raised Catholic, but we don't go to church because we didn't marry in the church, and it guilts the shit out of her (the Catholic way). My problem is with the "True Believers" trying to get others to convert. Our neighbors dropped that on us early, and I put a stop to that convo in a hurry. I have no issue with what they believe, until they try to make me believe as they do.
I am conflicted about a lot of it, but I am not conflicted in my personal beliefs, so I got that going for me, which is nice...
Are you talking about religion or the gays? Because the religious people can’t “make you believe as you do”. But the gays sure can make you believe or at least make you pretend to.
My basic elevator speech hasn't changed much since HS...
Earth = 4.5 billion years old
Simple life emerges 600 million years ago
Dinosaurs for like 200 millions years
Early modern homo sapiens don't arrive until 200,000 years ago
Then 2,000 years ago in the most bass akwards part of the world (not Rome or China mind you) amongst a bunch of bronze age goat herders, the most important even in the history of the planet occurs, followed by a Roman Emperor needing a new state religion three centuries later.
I need more evidence guys and can't take on faith. But that's just me, and believing that we're simply worm dirt when we die ain't for everyone.
Mrs. Snow is a confirmed papist, but more of a deist these days. I told her she can take on a new boyfriend in heaven if I don't get in.
ATBSJBS, I'm thankful for the Protestant Reformation and the good that it did in creating the modern world.
Some say it takes more faith not to believe than to believe.
Well, yeah, if I’m wrong, the consequences are dire. Eternal damnation sounds like a real bummer.
The point is, you have faith.
I don’t stress about it much. The burden of proof is not on me after all. I don’t make any metaphysical claims.
I didn’t assert you stressed. Just stated a fact. Yet some would suggest “life emerges” is a metaphysical claim.
Some are wrong. There's no metaphysical claim with "life emerges", rather, we're? just saying we don't know yet (and may never know). But not knowing the answer doesn't equate to evidence of magic or that the laws of physics were suspended this one time.
At the end of the day, I stand by Saint Chris Hitchens point, which is to say that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Yes… it can be. Which is why “life emerges” 600 million years ago requires faith. Because it can be dismissed without evidence.
My bro in law has a PHD in chemistry. From UW in the mid 90s. He runs a big department of about 200 people doing top secret shit. His journey to Christianity was chinteresting (or not). The deeper he got into science and his field, he could no longer ignore that God exists. Until he then accepted Christ. He’s not the only scientist I know who went through this. It doesn’t prove or disprove anything. I just find it compelling when people deep into chemistry, biology, archaeology, astronomy, etc either become Christian’s or their faith deepens.
It takes a whole lot more faith to believe the entirety of the universe came together by a series of unrelated cells, minerals, atoms and events than to accept that perhaps there is some master designer that built it.
That’s my point. Im an atheist though. But I understand the benefit religion has in organization and maintaining a civil society throughout history and today. I’m not anti religion. Atheists who lose their shit over religion are fucking annoying. They are usually arrogant smug pricks as well. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a stupid schtick. Some very intelligent and enlightened people throughout history aren’t so dismissive and flippant about it. Calling people of faith idiots show inability to think abstractly and see a picture.
I remember my calling non-atheists idiots stage phase .
I went to church (Presbyterian) as a child with my mom, while dad played golf. When mom learned to play golf, we stopped going to church, and I started playing golf. I've spent a lot of time in Catholic Churches, looking back, I apparently have a predilection (or fetish) for Catholic girls (Joe's Garage, IIRC @Yella)...
I think religion today is like a lot of things in life...initial great intentions, rules, customs, a sense of order, and as those great intentions move forward, people/institutions have found a way to monetize and market them to the masses as "THIS is the way, and it's the ONLY way". My wife was raised Catholic, but we don't go to church because we didn't marry in the church, and it guilts the shit out of her (the Catholic way). My problem is with the "True Believers" trying to get others to convert. Our neighbors dropped that on us early, and I put a stop to that convo in a hurry. I have no issue with what they believe, until they try to make me believe as they do.
I am conflicted about a lot of it, but I am not conflicted in my personal beliefs, so I got that going for me, which is nice...
Are you talking about religion or the gays? Because the religious people can’t “make you believe as you do”. But the gays sure can make you believe or at least make you pretend to.
Not sure of your context, but there is a rather firm line between tolerance and full-blown indoctrination / conversion, for me.
EDIT: I have dealt with many more evangelical types trying to convert me than gays (0), and I have several gay friends / acquaintances...("I can't be racist, I have black friends POTD...)
I went to church (Presbyterian) as a child with my mom, while dad played golf. When mom learned to play golf, we stopped going to church, and I started playing golf. I've spent a lot of time in Catholic Churches, looking back, I apparently have a predilection (or fetish) for Catholic girls (Joe's Garage, IIRC @Yella)...
I think religion today is like a lot of things in life...initial great intentions, rules, customs, a sense of order, and as those great intentions move forward, people/institutions have found a way to monetize and market them to the masses as "THIS is the way, and it's the ONLY way". My wife was raised Catholic, but we don't go to church because we didn't marry in the church, and it guilts the shit out of her (the Catholic way). My problem is with the "True Believers" trying to get others to convert. Our neighbors dropped that on us early, and I put a stop to that convo in a hurry. I have no issue with what they believe, until they try to make me believe as they do.
I am conflicted about a lot of it, but I am not conflicted in my personal beliefs, so I got that going for me, which is nice...
Are you talking about religion or the gays? Because the religious people can’t “make you believe as you do”. But the gays sure can make you believe or at least make you pretend to.
Not sure of your context, but there is a rather firm line between tolerance and full-blown indoctrination / conversion, for me.
EDIT: I have dealt with many more evangelical types trying to convert me than gays (0), and I have several gay friends / acquaintances...("I can't be racist, I have black friends POTD...)
The evangelicals can try all they want and present their arguments. You can accept or reject and move on. The gays can make your life miserable if you don’t comply. The have they weight of the government on their side. Just try not decorating a cake for them and see how it goes. Gays have the education system on their side for the “indoctrination”. The evangelicals don’t. With evangelicals you are free to ignore them and shut down the conversation. Good luck ignoring the gay agenda. Does the city of seattle fly a pride flag, or a Christian flag?
Deist - some God of some sort is out there, somewhere
Gotcha. They shouldn’t fly either one, but I haven’t been beat over the head by the gay stuff like most, possibly due to my elderly status. My wife and daughters do the Pride stuff, I do not. I don’t try to convert people to my way, and expect the same in return. I believe what I believe, and that is where my compliance lies…
Gotcha. They shouldn’t fly either one, but I haven’t been beat over the head by the gay stuff like most, possibly due to my elderly status. My wife and daughters do the Pride stuff, I do not. I don’t try to convert people to my way, and expect the same in return. I believe what I believe, and that is where my compliance lies…
The difference is one you can ignore, like a sales pitch. It holds no sway other than annoying you. Just move on. Who cares? The other has the weight of law and you will comply or you will be punished. One is celebrated and pushed in school classrooms. The other is not. One is supported and celebrated by your city. The other is not.
Gotcha. They shouldn’t fly either one, but I haven’t been beat over the head by the gay stuff like most, possibly due to my elderly status. My wife and daughters do the Pride stuff, I do not. I don’t try to convert people to my way, and expect the same in return. I believe what I believe, and that is where my compliance lies…
The difference is one you can ignore, like a sales pitch. It holds no sway other than annoying you. Just move on. Who cares? The other has the weight of law and you will comply or you will be punished. One is celebrated and pushed in school classrooms. The other is not. One is supported and celebrated by your city. The other is not.
Gotcha. They shouldn’t fly either one, but I haven’t been beat over the head by the gay stuff like most, possibly due to my elderly status. My wife and daughters do the Pride stuff, I do not. I don’t try to convert people to my way, and expect the same in return. I believe what I believe, and that is where my compliance lies…
The difference is one you can ignore, like a sales pitch. It holds no sway other than annoying you. Just move on. Who cares? The other has the weight of law and you will comply or you will be punished. One is celebrated and pushed in school classrooms. The other is not. One is supported and celebrated by your city. The other is not.
Not my city any more…
Good luck the rest of the way. I hope the evangelicals don't have you fined for not participating in their weddings.
My basic elevator speech hasn't changed much since HS...
Earth = 4.5 billion years old
Simple life emerges 600 million years ago
Dinosaurs for like 200 millions years
Early modern homo sapiens don't arrive until 200,000 years ago
Then 2,000 years ago in the most bass akwards part of the world (not Rome or China mind you) amongst a bunch of bronze age goat herders, the most important even in the history of the planet occurs, followed by a Roman Emperor needing a new state religion three centuries later.
I need more evidence guys and can't take on faith. But that's just me, and believing that we're simply worm dirt when we die ain't for everyone.
Mrs. Snow is a confirmed papist, but more of a deist these days. I told her she can take on a new boyfriend in heaven if I don't get in.
ATBSJBS, I'm thankful for the Protestant Reformation and the good that it did in creating the modern world.
Some say it takes more faith not to believe than to believe.
Well, yeah, if I’m wrong, the consequences are dire. Eternal damnation sounds like a real bummer.
The point is, you have faith.
I don’t stress about it much. The burden of proof is not on me after all. I don’t make any metaphysical claims.
I didn’t assert you stressed. Just stated a fact. Yet some would suggest “life emerges” is a metaphysical claim.
Some are wrong. There's no metaphysical claim with "life emerges", rather, we're? just saying we don't know yet (and may never know). But not knowing the answer doesn't equate to evidence of magic or that the laws of physics were suspended this one time.
At the end of the day, I stand by Saint Chris Hitchens point, which is to say that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Yes… it can be. Which is why “life emerges” 600 million years ago requires faith. Because it can be dismissed without evidence.
My bro in law has a PHD in chemistry. From UW in the mid 90s. He runs a big department of about 200 people doing top secret shit. His journey to Christianity was chinteresting (or not). The deeper he got into science and his field, he could no longer ignore that God exists. Until he then accepted Christ. He’s not the only scientist I know who went through this. It doesn’t prove or disprove anything. I just find it compelling when people deep into chemistry, biology, archaeology, astronomy, etc either become Christian’s or their faith deepens.
It takes a whole lot more faith to believe the entirety of the universe came together by a series of unrelated cells, minerals, atoms and events than to accept that perhaps there is some master designer that built it.
That’s my point. Im an atheist though. But I understand the benefit religion has in organization and maintaining a civil society throughout history and today. I’m not anti religion. Atheists who lose their shit over religion are fucking annoying. They are usually arrogant smug pricks as well. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a stupid schtick. Some very intelligent and enlightened people throughout history aren’t so dismissive and flippant about it. Calling people of faith idiots show inability to think abstractly and see a picture.
I remember my calling non-atheists idiots stage phase .
Hopefully you’re more enlightened now.
Oops did I put stage?
I wouldn't say enlightened. I did stop calling people idiots over their faith though. My gf of many years is serious about Christianity. It's not an issue for us.
My basic elevator speech hasn't changed much since HS...
Earth = 4.5 billion years old
Simple life emerges 600 million years ago
Dinosaurs for like 200 millions years
Early modern homo sapiens don't arrive until 200,000 years ago
Then 2,000 years ago in the most bass akwards part of the world (not Rome or China mind you) amongst a bunch of bronze age goat herders, the most important even in the history of the planet occurs, followed by a Roman Emperor needing a new state religion three centuries later.
I need more evidence guys and can't take on faith. But that's just me, and believing that we're simply worm dirt when we die ain't for everyone.
Mrs. Snow is a confirmed papist, but more of a deist these days. I told her she can take on a new boyfriend in heaven if I don't get in.
ATBSJBS, I'm thankful for the Protestant Reformation and the good that it did in creating the modern world.
Some say it takes more faith not to believe than to believe.
Well, yeah, if I’m wrong, the consequences are dire. Eternal damnation sounds like a real bummer.
The point is, you have faith.
I don’t stress about it much. The burden of proof is not on me after all. I don’t make any metaphysical claims.
I didn’t assert you stressed. Just stated a fact. Yet some would suggest “life emerges” is a metaphysical claim.
Some are wrong. There's no metaphysical claim with "life emerges", rather, we're? just saying we don't know yet (and may never know). But not knowing the answer doesn't equate to evidence of magic or that the laws of physics were suspended this one time.
At the end of the day, I stand by Saint Chris Hitchens point, which is to say that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Yes… it can be. Which is why “life emerges” 600 million years ago requires faith. Because it can be dismissed without evidence.
My bro in law has a PHD in chemistry. From UW in the mid 90s. He runs a big department of about 200 people doing top secret shit. His journey to Christianity was chinteresting (or not). The deeper he got into science and his field, he could no longer ignore that God exists. Until he then accepted Christ. He’s not the only scientist I know who went through this. It doesn’t prove or disprove anything. I just find it compelling when people deep into chemistry, biology, archaeology, astronomy, etc either become Christian’s or their faith deepens.
It takes a whole lot more faith to believe the entirety of the universe came together by a series of unrelated cells, minerals, atoms and events than to accept that perhaps there is some master designer that built it.
That’s my point. Im an atheist though. But I understand the benefit religion has in organization and maintaining a civil society throughout history and today. I’m not anti religion. Atheists who lose their shit over religion are fucking annoying. They are usually arrogant smug pricks as well. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a stupid schtick. Some very intelligent and enlightened people throughout history aren’t so dismissive and flippant about it. Calling people of faith idiots show inability to think abstractly and see a picture.
I remember my calling non-atheists idiots stage phase .
Hopefully you’re more enlightened now.
Oops did I put stage?
I wouldn't say enlightened. I did stop calling people idiots over their faith though. My gf of many years is serious about Christianity. It's not an issue for us.
Comments
Everyone knows both sides by heart by now
That’s the narrative I’m sticking with. It just sounds so good at cocktail parties.
I think religion today is like a lot of things in life...initial great intentions, rules, customs, a sense of order, and as those great intentions move forward, people/institutions have found a way to monetize and market them to the masses as "THIS is the way, and it's the ONLY way". My wife was raised Catholic, but we don't go to church because we didn't marry in the church, and it guilts the shit out of her (the Catholic way). My problem is with the "True Believers" trying to get others to convert. Our neighbors dropped that on us early, and I put a stop to that convo in a hurry. I have no issue with what they believe, until they try to make me believe as they do.
I am conflicted about a lot of it, but I am not conflicted in my personal beliefs, so I got that going for me, which is nice...
EDIT: I have dealt with many more evangelical types trying to convert me than gays (0), and I have several gay friends / acquaintances...("I can't be racist, I have black friends POTD...)
I wouldn't say enlightened. I did stop calling people idiots over their faith though. My gf of many years is serious about Christianity. It's not an issue for us.