It is always about the "Ifs"...I just scratched out a couple of line-ups with Hangier (9) and KLew (DH), France at 2B, Winker in the 9 hole...that is a pretty deep line-up.
Very few guys produce year after year for sustained periods of time. It’s a tough sport. It’s cliche, but it’s a game of failure.
It is always about the "Ifs"...I just scratched out a couple of line-ups with Hangier (9) and KLew (DH), France at 2B, Winker in the 9 hole...that is a pretty deep line-up.
Very few guys produce year after year for sustained periods of time. It’s a tough sport. It’s cliche, but it’s a game of failure.
They will need a few outlier-type performances from guys, but it happens every year, for the winners. It’s not about the established guys that consistently produce, but who will rise, who will break out. A lot of average players have risen to the occasion with the chips on the line. All you can do is put the best 9 out there every night…the “potential” best 9 would be the best lineup they’ve had for a long (dare I say 20 years) time…the dreamy days of summer…
It is always about the "Ifs"...I just scratched out a couple of line-ups with Hangier (9) and KLew (DH), France at 2B, Winker in the 9 hole...that is a pretty deep line-up.
Very few guys produce year after year for sustained periods of time. It’s a tough sport. It’s cliche, but it’s a game of failure.
They will need a few outlier-type performances from guys, but it happens every year, for the winners. It’s not about the established guys that consistently produce, but who will rise, who will break out. A lot of average players have risen to the occasion with the chips on the line. All you can do is put the best 9 out there every night…the “potential” best 9 would be the best lineup they’ve had for a long (dare I say 20 years) time…the dreamy days of summer…
If 2001 had these starters they would have been a much tougher out. I think the yanks would have gone down.
It’s a little surprising how much I’ve been looking forward to Mariners games each day for the past 2-3 weeks. Having watched the mariners for ~30 years I feel like I have a pretty good bullshit detector for when they are punching above their weight class. I am fully prepared to eat these words: this team feels absolutely nothing like that to me. It truly feels like they are locked in, they have a pitching staff that is in rhythm and pumping out a fair amount of quality starts, and bats heating up with good reason to think it will continue (Winker as we discussed, Mitch, Julio being an absolute fucking star, etc). See you at 7:10, don’t know what is happening to me.
Lewis has performed for long enough that it’s more than potential. He’s legit if he can ever stay healthy.
Winker will hit .250 or so. .300 is a bit stretch.
I agree we haven’t even seen Julio’s best stretch. A 10 HR month is coming.
The Mariners still are irrelevant and won’t sniff the playoffs.
A stretch? A guy who hasn't hit as poorly as .250 ever? You're basing what he will do off of a small sample, as you tend to do. One or two good games and he's over .250 right now. You saying a guy who has never hit that poorly can't sustain it because he's had a slow start?
Career .277 hitter. Hit .305 last year. .255 and .269 the two years before. He’s hitting .226 right now. Half the season is over. It’s been three months, not one. It’s not a small sample size. It will take a lot more than two good games to get him to .250.
Ran the numbers because I was curious. Winker needs to bat .305 over his next 120 plate appearances to be at a .250 average after 400 ABs. Of course he could rip the cover off the ball and bat .400 but he’d need to go something like 15 for his next 15 ABs to get to .250 in “a couple of games”.
I do agree it’s fair to expect more and I think we’re starting to see it.
How good is Julio, holy shit.
I'm not trying to be a statistician out here.
For real I made a dumb, uninformed comment, but it wasn't from left field. Winker had a good stretch, and I think I did see him over .240 during one of those games where he was 2-2 starting out. He then went 0fer a few games.
Him, Frazier and Kelenic have been the main letdowns. Kelenic only needed to improve a bit in terms of BA and getting on base to help the team, but went backwards instead. Frazier, without hitting over .300, brings very little to the table and I don't see that changing much. The odds will play out eventually for Winker though. He's a good hitter and will be a key to the playoff run the Ms are going to go on.
It is always about the "Ifs"...I just scratched out a couple of line-ups with Hangier (9) and KLew (DH), France at 2B, Winker in the 9 hole...that is a pretty deep line-up.
Very few guys produce year after year for sustained periods of time. It’s a tough sport. It’s cliche, but it’s a game of failure.
They will need a few outlier-type performances from guys, but it happens every year, for the winners. It’s not about the established guys that consistently produce, but who will rise, who will break out. A lot of average players have risen to the occasion with the chips on the line. All you can do is put the best 9 out there every night…the “potential” best 9 would be the best lineup they’ve had for a long (dare I say 20 years) time…the dreamy days of summer…
If 2001 had these starters they would have been a much tougher out. I think the yanks would have gone down.
Different era. Freddy Garcia had the lowest ERA of any starting pitcher in the AL in 2001. Moyer and Garcia were both in the top 5 of the Cy Young voting. It’s not accurate to say the Mariners didn’t have good starting pitching in 2001 and in the series against the Yankees, the Mariners scored 3 or less in every game but one. It wasn’t really the starting pitching which made the Mariners lose.
It is always about the "Ifs"...I just scratched out a couple of line-ups with Hangier (9) and KLew (DH), France at 2B, Winker in the 9 hole...that is a pretty deep line-up.
Very few guys produce year after year for sustained periods of time. It’s a tough sport. It’s cliche, but it’s a game of failure.
They will need a few outlier-type performances from guys, but it happens every year, for the winners. It’s not about the established guys that consistently produce, but who will rise, who will break out. A lot of average players have risen to the occasion with the chips on the line. All you can do is put the best 9 out there every night…the “potential” best 9 would be the best lineup they’ve had for a long (dare I say 20 years) time…the dreamy days of summer…
If 2001 had these starters they would have been a much tougher out. I think the yanks would have gone down.
Different era. Freddy Garcia had the lowest ERA of any starting pitcher in the AL in 2001. Moyer and Garcia were both in the top 5 of the Cy Young voting. It’s not accurate to say the Mariners didn’t have good starting pitching in 2001 and in the series against the Yankees, the Mariners scored 3 or less in every game but one. It wasn’t really the starting pitching which made the Mariners lose.
It is always about the "Ifs"...I just scratched out a couple of line-ups with Hangier (9) and KLew (DH), France at 2B, Winker in the 9 hole...that is a pretty deep line-up.
Very few guys produce year after year for sustained periods of time. It’s a tough sport. It’s cliche, but it’s a game of failure.
They will need a few outlier-type performances from guys, but it happens every year, for the winners. It’s not about the established guys that consistently produce, but who will rise, who will break out. A lot of average players have risen to the occasion with the chips on the line. All you can do is put the best 9 out there every night…the “potential” best 9 would be the best lineup they’ve had for a long (dare I say 20 years) time…the dreamy days of summer…
If 2001 had these starters they would have been a much tougher out. I think the yanks would have gone down.
Different era. Freddy Garcia had the lowest ERA of any starting pitcher in the AL in 2001. Moyer and Garcia were both in the top 5 of the Cy Young voting. It’s not accurate to say the Mariners didn’t have good starting pitching in 2001 and in the series against the Yankees, the Mariners scored 3 or less in every game but one. It wasn’t really the starting pitching which made the Mariners lose.
2001 was a 100 year storm…the M’s starters won 86 games, Moyer (3) won 20, and Paul Abbott won 17 as the #4…Paul Freaking Abbott…Sele had a career year. This is my reference to “outliers”…guys step up that you’re not depending on at the beginning of the season…
It is always about the "Ifs"...I just scratched out a couple of line-ups with Hangier (9) and KLew (DH), France at 2B, Winker in the 9 hole...that is a pretty deep line-up.
Very few guys produce year after year for sustained periods of time. It’s a tough sport. It’s cliche, but it’s a game of failure.
They will need a few outlier-type performances from guys, but it happens every year, for the winners. It’s not about the established guys that consistently produce, but who will rise, who will break out. A lot of average players have risen to the occasion with the chips on the line. All you can do is put the best 9 out there every night…the “potential” best 9 would be the best lineup they’ve had for a long (dare I say 20 years) time…the dreamy days of summer…
If 2001 had these starters they would have been a much tougher out. I think the yanks would have gone down.
Different era. Freddy Garcia had the lowest ERA of any starting pitcher in the AL in 2001. Moyer and Garcia were both in the top 5 of the Cy Young voting. It’s not accurate to say the Mariners didn’t have good starting pitching in 2001 and in the series against the Yankees, the Mariners scored 3 or less in every game but one. It wasn’t really the starting pitching which made the Mariners lose.
It is always about the "Ifs"...I just scratched out a couple of line-ups with Hangier (9) and KLew (DH), France at 2B, Winker in the 9 hole...that is a pretty deep line-up.
Very few guys produce year after year for sustained periods of time. It’s a tough sport. It’s cliche, but it’s a game of failure.
They will need a few outlier-type performances from guys, but it happens every year, for the winners. It’s not about the established guys that consistently produce, but who will rise, who will break out. A lot of average players have risen to the occasion with the chips on the line. All you can do is put the best 9 out there every night…the “potential” best 9 would be the best lineup they’ve had for a long (dare I say 20 years) time…the dreamy days of summer…
If 2001 had these starters they would have been a much tougher out. I think the yanks would have gone down.
Different era. Freddy Garcia had the lowest ERA of any starting pitcher in the AL in 2001. Moyer and Garcia were both in the top 5 of the Cy Young voting. It’s not accurate to say the Mariners didn’t have good starting pitching in 2001 and in the series against the Yankees, the Mariners scored 3 or less in every game but one. It wasn’t really the starting pitching which made the Mariners lose.
2001 was a 100 year storm…the M’s starters won 86 games, Moyer (3) won 20, and Paul Abbott won 17 as the #4…Paul Freaking Abbott…Sele had a career year. This is my reference to “outliers”…guys step up that you’re not depending on at the beginning of the season…
It is always about the "Ifs"...I just scratched out a couple of line-ups with Hangier (9) and KLew (DH), France at 2B, Winker in the 9 hole...that is a pretty deep line-up.
Very few guys produce year after year for sustained periods of time. It’s a tough sport. It’s cliche, but it’s a game of failure.
They will need a few outlier-type performances from guys, but it happens every year, for the winners. It’s not about the established guys that consistently produce, but who will rise, who will break out. A lot of average players have risen to the occasion with the chips on the line. All you can do is put the best 9 out there every night…the “potential” best 9 would be the best lineup they’ve had for a long (dare I say 20 years) time…the dreamy days of summer…
If 2001 had these starters they would have been a much tougher out. I think the yanks would have gone down.
Different era. Freddy Garcia had the lowest ERA of any starting pitcher in the AL in 2001. Moyer and Garcia were both in the top 5 of the Cy Young voting. It’s not accurate to say the Mariners didn’t have good starting pitching in 2001 and in the series against the Yankees, the Mariners scored 3 or less in every game but one. It wasn’t really the starting pitching which made the Mariners lose.
They didn't have a shutdown guy. Freddie was always shaky and battling through. Who were the starters after Moyer? Ryan Franklin? Gill Meche? I honestly don't remember, but they were average at best.
I didn't say they didn't have starting pitching. Are you saying that rotation was as good as this one? It sure as hell didn't have the shutdown ability this one does.
It is always about the "Ifs"...I just scratched out a couple of line-ups with Hangier (9) and KLew (DH), France at 2B, Winker in the 9 hole...that is a pretty deep line-up.
Very few guys produce year after year for sustained periods of time. It’s a tough sport. It’s cliche, but it’s a game of failure.
They will need a few outlier-type performances from guys, but it happens every year, for the winners. It’s not about the established guys that consistently produce, but who will rise, who will break out. A lot of average players have risen to the occasion with the chips on the line. All you can do is put the best 9 out there every night…the “potential” best 9 would be the best lineup they’ve had for a long (dare I say 20 years) time…the dreamy days of summer…
If 2001 had these starters they would have been a much tougher out. I think the yanks would have gone down.
Different era. Freddy Garcia had the lowest ERA of any starting pitcher in the AL in 2001. Moyer and Garcia were both in the top 5 of the Cy Young voting. It’s not accurate to say the Mariners didn’t have good starting pitching in 2001 and in the series against the Yankees, the Mariners scored 3 or less in every game but one. It wasn’t really the starting pitching which made the Mariners lose.
It is always about the "Ifs"...I just scratched out a couple of line-ups with Hangier (9) and KLew (DH), France at 2B, Winker in the 9 hole...that is a pretty deep line-up.
Very few guys produce year after year for sustained periods of time. It’s a tough sport. It’s cliche, but it’s a game of failure.
They will need a few outlier-type performances from guys, but it happens every year, for the winners. It’s not about the established guys that consistently produce, but who will rise, who will break out. A lot of average players have risen to the occasion with the chips on the line. All you can do is put the best 9 out there every night…the “potential” best 9 would be the best lineup they’ve had for a long (dare I say 20 years) time…the dreamy days of summer…
If 2001 had these starters they would have been a much tougher out. I think the yanks would have gone down.
Different era. Freddy Garcia had the lowest ERA of any starting pitcher in the AL in 2001. Moyer and Garcia were both in the top 5 of the Cy Young voting. It’s not accurate to say the Mariners didn’t have good starting pitching in 2001 and in the series against the Yankees, the Mariners scored 3 or less in every game but one. It wasn’t really the starting pitching which made the Mariners lose.
2001 was a 100 year storm…the M’s starters won 86 games, Moyer (3) won 20, and Paul Abbott won 17 as the #4…Paul Freaking Abbott…Sele had a career year. This is my reference to “outliers”…guys step up that you’re not depending on at the beginning of the season…
Those outlier guys rarely get it done in the playoffs.
It is always about the "Ifs"...I just scratched out a couple of line-ups with Hangier (9) and KLew (DH), France at 2B, Winker in the 9 hole...that is a pretty deep line-up.
Very few guys produce year after year for sustained periods of time. It’s a tough sport. It’s cliche, but it’s a game of failure.
They will need a few outlier-type performances from guys, but it happens every year, for the winners. It’s not about the established guys that consistently produce, but who will rise, who will break out. A lot of average players have risen to the occasion with the chips on the line. All you can do is put the best 9 out there every night…the “potential” best 9 would be the best lineup they’ve had for a long (dare I say 20 years) time…the dreamy days of summer…
If 2001 had these starters they would have been a much tougher out. I think the yanks would have gone down.
Different era. Freddy Garcia had the lowest ERA of any starting pitcher in the AL in 2001. Moyer and Garcia were both in the top 5 of the Cy Young voting. It’s not accurate to say the Mariners didn’t have good starting pitching in 2001 and in the series against the Yankees, the Mariners scored 3 or less in every game but one. It wasn’t really the starting pitching which made the Mariners lose.
They didn't have a shutdown guy. Freddie was always shaky and battling through. Who were the starters after Moyer? Ryan Franklin? Gill Meche? I honestly don't remember, but they were average at best.
I didn't say they didn't have starting pitching. Are you saying that rotation was as good as this one? It sure as hell didn't have the shutdown ability this one does.
It’s kind of a strange hypothetical. They don’t have an ace, but there were not many of them back then. Freddy was no shaky and battling thru in 2000 or 2001. He was a CY Young candidate.
Garcia, Moyer, Sele, Abbot, Meche/Halama. I would rather have our rotation now but it’s close.
It is always about the "Ifs"...I just scratched out a couple of line-ups with Hangier (9) and KLew (DH), France at 2B, Winker in the 9 hole...that is a pretty deep line-up.
Very few guys produce year after year for sustained periods of time. It’s a tough sport. It’s cliche, but it’s a game of failure.
They will need a few outlier-type performances from guys, but it happens every year, for the winners. It’s not about the established guys that consistently produce, but who will rise, who will break out. A lot of average players have risen to the occasion with the chips on the line. All you can do is put the best 9 out there every night…the “potential” best 9 would be the best lineup they’ve had for a long (dare I say 20 years) time…the dreamy days of summer…
If 2001 had these starters they would have been a much tougher out. I think the yanks would have gone down.
Different era. Freddy Garcia had the lowest ERA of any starting pitcher in the AL in 2001. Moyer and Garcia were both in the top 5 of the Cy Young voting. It’s not accurate to say the Mariners didn’t have good starting pitching in 2001 and in the series against the Yankees, the Mariners scored 3 or less in every game but one. It wasn’t really the starting pitching which made the Mariners lose.
They didn't have a shutdown guy. Freddie was always shaky and battling through. Who were the starters after Moyer? Ryan Franklin? Gill Meche? I honestly don't remember, but they were average at best.
I didn't say they didn't have starting pitching. Are you saying that rotation was as good as this one? It sure as hell didn't have the shutdown ability this one does.
It’s kind of a strange hypothetical. They don’t have an ace, but there were not many of them back then. Freddy was no shaky and battling thru in 2000 or 2001. He was a CY Young candidate.
Garcia, Moyer, Sele, Abbot, Meche/Halama. I would rather have our rotation now but it’s close.
I deal in hypotheticals. Great odds of not being wrong that way.
It is always about the "Ifs"...I just scratched out a couple of line-ups with Hangier (9) and KLew (DH), France at 2B, Winker in the 9 hole...that is a pretty deep line-up.
Very few guys produce year after year for sustained periods of time. It’s a tough sport. It’s cliche, but it’s a game of failure.
They will need a few outlier-type performances from guys, but it happens every year, for the winners. It’s not about the established guys that consistently produce, but who will rise, who will break out. A lot of average players have risen to the occasion with the chips on the line. All you can do is put the best 9 out there every night…the “potential” best 9 would be the best lineup they’ve had for a long (dare I say 20 years) time…the dreamy days of summer…
If 2001 had these starters they would have been a much tougher out. I think the yanks would have gone down.
Different era. Freddy Garcia had the lowest ERA of any starting pitcher in the AL in 2001. Moyer and Garcia were both in the top 5 of the Cy Young voting. It’s not accurate to say the Mariners didn’t have good starting pitching in 2001 and in the series against the Yankees, the Mariners scored 3 or less in every game but one. It wasn’t really the starting pitching which made the Mariners lose.
It is always about the "Ifs"...I just scratched out a couple of line-ups with Hangier (9) and KLew (DH), France at 2B, Winker in the 9 hole...that is a pretty deep line-up.
Very few guys produce year after year for sustained periods of time. It’s a tough sport. It’s cliche, but it’s a game of failure.
They will need a few outlier-type performances from guys, but it happens every year, for the winners. It’s not about the established guys that consistently produce, but who will rise, who will break out. A lot of average players have risen to the occasion with the chips on the line. All you can do is put the best 9 out there every night…the “potential” best 9 would be the best lineup they’ve had for a long (dare I say 20 years) time…the dreamy days of summer…
If 2001 had these starters they would have been a much tougher out. I think the yanks would have gone down.
Different era. Freddy Garcia had the lowest ERA of any starting pitcher in the AL in 2001. Moyer and Garcia were both in the top 5 of the Cy Young voting. It’s not accurate to say the Mariners didn’t have good starting pitching in 2001 and in the series against the Yankees, the Mariners scored 3 or less in every game but one. It wasn’t really the starting pitching which made the Mariners lose.
2001 was a 100 year storm…the M’s starters won 86 games, Moyer (3) won 20, and Paul Abbott won 17 as the #4…Paul Freaking Abbott…Sele had a career year. This is my reference to “outliers”…guys step up that you’re not depending on at the beginning of the season…
Those outlier guys rarely get it done in the playoffs.
IDK if I'm using "outlier" correctly, or just making shitty posts...Last year, the WSMVP was not Freddie Freeman, Ronald Acuna Jr, Dansby Swanson, Max Fried, Charlie Morton...All big time superstars...it was Jorge Soler, and I don't even know who he plays for now. There are several examples of average, run-o'-the-mill players, JAGs, who come out of nowhere and either become dudes over extended periods (usually when opportunity presents itself) or exhibit dude-like behavior in short, critical stints. It happens on championship caliber teams every year.
Since we deal in hypotheticals 'round here...JP sprains an ankle in late August, and Dylan Moore (he of the sub-.200BA) steps in and hits .330 in his absence, with a handful of jacks, playing lock-down D (which is why he is there)...Not expected, but necessary to compete in October. He's a utility guy, basically a JAG, with a specific skill set (run, multi-defend, occasional pop). Really, so is France...multiple-positions, plus-plus hit tool. Ben Zobrist.
The later it gets, and the better they play, Julio, France, whoever is hot, will not get pitched to at all, or very differently than in June/July. It is opportunity for the guys in front and behind them, guys off the bench (injury), guys who aren't even here right now, to shine in the spotlight...Make a season, make a career...Little Joey Cora and Luis Sojo probably are not buying drinks in Seattle, even now. I'd buy Mark McLemore a drink right now. Santana was signed as a fill in, and look at the impact (short sample, but that's the point) he has made...these are the guys I am referencing.
They aren't "5 tool " players, but they are good at what they do, and they need to produce in their roles, and outside them if/when necessary, for them to be in the mix in September. In October, all bets are off, and it's who's hot, and who's not...gotta be in it to win it.
@Fishpo31 I agree that a WS winning team usually needs a guy or two to step up and punch above their weight at the right time. What I meant was that you can't predict who those guys will be or if they exist. Someone like Dylan Moore or Carlos Santana being hot around the all star break or even during the stretch run isn't predictive of them carrying it through or even into the playoffs.
That's all I meant.
If the Ms go into the playoffs fully healthy, however unlikely that may seem, rhey have the depth in the lineup to compete with anyone.
While I'm on the Ms, I read an article (usa today iirc) about Winker last night and how he retooled his stance and footwork during his time off. He went back to the stance and toe tap that he used in 2021, when he was one of the league's best hitters for 110 games.
So my question is...is Winker a retard? I used to fuck with things that were already working for me too It didn't get me very far. Jesus dude.
@Fishpo31 I agree that a WS winning team usually needs a guy or two to step up and punch above their weight at the right time. What I meant was that you can't predict who those guys will be or if they exist. Someone like Dylan Moore or Carlos Santana being hot around the all star break or even during the stretch run isn't predictive of them carrying it through or even into the playoffs.
That's all I meant.
If the Ms go into the playoffs fully healthy, however unlikely that may seem, rhey have the depth in the lineup to compete with anyone.
I agree, Chuck. You can’t predict it, but if they follow through this year, there will be an unsung hero or two, either to get them there, or get them to the finish line. Agree with depth too. This could turn into a very tough line up, if it hasn’t already, without Haniger and KLew…
While I'm on the Ms, I read an article (usa today iirc) about Winker last night and how he retooled his stance and footwork during his time off. He went back to the stance and toe tap that he used in 2021, when he was one of the league's best hitters for 110 games.
So my question is...is Winker a retard? I used to fuck with things that were already working for me too It didn't get me very far. Jesus dude.
It’s the hardest thing for a lotta guys, they try to make good into great, and it makes them worse…I used that mindset for about 20 years on the golf course, finally figured it out (?) hopefully…always a work in progress…
Comments
https://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/2001_ALCS.shtml
I didn't say they didn't have starting pitching. Are you saying that rotation was as good as this one? It sure as hell didn't have the shutdown ability this one does.
Garcia, Moyer, Sele, Abbot, Meche/Halama. I would rather have our rotation now but it’s close.
Yes, I had to edit rhat.
Since we deal in hypotheticals 'round here...JP sprains an ankle in late August, and Dylan Moore (he of the sub-.200BA) steps in and hits .330 in his absence, with a handful of jacks, playing lock-down D (which is why he is there)...Not expected, but necessary to compete in October. He's a utility guy, basically a JAG, with a specific skill set (run, multi-defend, occasional pop). Really, so is France...multiple-positions, plus-plus hit tool. Ben Zobrist.
The later it gets, and the better they play, Julio, France, whoever is hot, will not get pitched to at all, or very differently than in June/July. It is opportunity for the guys in front and behind them, guys off the bench (injury), guys who aren't even here right now,
to shine in the spotlight...Make a season, make a career...Little Joey Cora and Luis Sojo probably are not buying drinks in Seattle, even now. I'd buy Mark McLemore a drink right now. Santana was signed as a fill in, and look at the impact (short sample, but that's the point) he has made...these are the guys I am referencing.
They aren't "5 tool " players, but they are good at what they do, and they need to produce in their roles, and outside them if/when necessary, for them to be in the mix in September. In October, all bets are off, and it's who's hot, and who's not...gotta be in it to win it.
That's all I meant.
If the Ms go into the playoffs fully healthy, however unlikely that may seem, rhey have the depth in the lineup to compete with anyone.
So my question is...is Winker a retard? I used to fuck with things that were already working for me too It didn't get me very far. Jesus dude.