@sonics1993 you obviously know the coaches and have been around the program. Being completely honest and based only on what you have seen of him that maybe the rest of us haven't, do you think Lake us cut out to be a succesful HC or is he just another assistant that will ultimately prove to be not up to the task.
From talking to him and his vision for the program I trust him. But his moves have been completely opposite from what his philosophy of being aggressive all the time. The money was there to fire Bob and KB and he choose to keep them and instead beef up the recruiting department which really didn't need it. Then he hires Terrence Brown and Cato, two unproven coaches who have no track record of success. Then there's the hire of Donovan which no one understands and it's absolutely killing offensive recruiting. I'm still in wait and see mode on Donavan because I like his philosophy and what he wants the offense to look like, we will see if he has the play calling skills. I don't care that he sucks at recruiting as long as he can call plays. But the two biggest red flag for me right now is the fact that it doesn't seem like Jimmy has a plan for recruiting and that he's letting friendship get in the way of making tough decisions. An example of having no plan would be offering Jacob Schuster a gray shirt, telling him that we really want him but we just don't have the numbers right now only to back track on that two months later and offer him a full ride for the 2021 class. Nothing changed number wise in last two months, a lot of schools just offered Jacob and so Jimmy got nervous and backtracked and offered him a full ride but his family wasn't to pleased with the gray shirt offer. And then there's the Julien Simon and Will Latu recruitment which was completely mishandled and so idiotic that I don't want to even talk about. My hope is that these are first year mistakes and Jimmy learns from them like Pete did his first year but I am getting nervous about him. Just really hope we have a season and win 10+ games, that will solve a lot of things.
@sonics1993 Can you shed any light on how Jimmy, a guy who certainly SEEMS to understand the importance of recruiting, failed to make any sort of splash move in recruiting as one of his first actions as head coach? It seems like that could have taken the form of getting rid of bad recruiters(Boner and Gregory) or adding an elite recruiter to the staff in some capacity as a position coach or as a recruiting coordinator or something like that.
For a guy who has been very vocal about recruiting and is a good recruiter himself it just seems weird that he didn't take any action. TYFYS.
I wish I had an answer for that, makes no sense to me either.
Talked to a couple different guys on the staff and neither of them are concerned about recruiting, in fact they like where they stand in recruiting. I made one of them repeat it because I couldn't believe it. They both told me that when things open back up, it's going to be insane and Washington will be in a very good place to deal with it. Both told me recruiting is a marathon not a sprint and believe come fall, they will flip a lot of these guys including Troy who they are still confident in. I want to believe but all my neutral sources aren't as optimistic so I got no clue how this ends.
Question Sonics: are the position coaches you talk to usually pretty straight up about things going on, whether good or bad? Or do they usually put a positive spin on it? Just wondering how realistic they are being. Thanks!
Honestly they are usually realistic but this year they have been completely off with some of the things they have said.
And keep telling yourselves that none of those commits have visited. Only 1 of Oregons commits haven’t visited. Most more than once. They had a big cruit’n weekend prior to covid, like uw should have been doing. And its not just about visiting, its more about the relationship they establish with the coaches. That is where Oregon is killing it.
Gotta give credit where credit is due, Oregon's staff is filled with guys who can recruit and work hard doing it. Mario filled his staff with recruiters, Jimmy filled his staff with friends.
He's probably also a poor planner and administrator. CP was up there with Saban when it came to having a basic idea of what his program was about and having a system to manage the whole thing. It takes more than charisma and relatability.
My guess is that Lake is CP Lite with half the managerial skills. If he gets great players that won't matter as much. Big if.
He's probably also a poor planner and administrator. CP was up there with Saban when it came to having a basic idea of what his program was about and having a system to manage the whole thing. It takes more than charisma and relatability.
My guess is that Lake is CP Lite with half the managerial skills. If he gets great players that won't matter as much. Big if.
Pete was as detailed as they come, that's why I always trusted him.
He's probably also a poor planner and administrator. CP was up there with Saban when it came to having a basic idea of what his program was about and having a system to manage the whole thing. It takes more than charisma and relatability.
My guess is that Lake is CP Lite with half the managerial skills. If he gets great players that won't matter as much. Big if.
Pete was as detailed as they come, that's why I always trusted him.
Is it even possible at this point to get a read on how detailed Lake is relative to Pete?
He's probably also a poor planner and administrator. CP was up there with Saban when it came to having a basic idea of what his program was about and having a system to manage the whole thing. It takes more than charisma and relatability.
My guess is that Lake is CP Lite with half the managerial skills. If he gets great players that won't matter as much. Big if.
Pete was as detailed as they come, that's why I always trusted him.
Is it even possible at this point to get a read on how detailed Lake is relative to Pete?
I have seen his coaching hires and the way he's gone about recruiting which has me nervous.
He's probably also a poor planner and administrator. CP was up there with Saban when it came to having a basic idea of what his program was about and having a system to manage the whole thing. It takes more than charisma and relatability.
My guess is that Lake is CP Lite with half the managerial skills. If he gets great players that won't matter as much. Big if.
Pete was as detailed as they come, that's why I always trusted him.
Is it even possible at this point to get a read on how detailed Lake is relative to Pete?
I have seen his coaching hires and the way he's gone about recruiting which has me nervous.
Fair, but Covid has totally changed how he would normally go about recruiting, so it's tough to judge. We're a school of substance, not flash, and I think that really hurts us right now. We desperately need visits and practices, especially with a new HC and OC. Covid has definitely fucked us.
He's probably also a poor planner and administrator. CP was up there with Saban when it came to having a basic idea of what his program was about and having a system to manage the whole thing. It takes more than charisma and relatability.
My guess is that Lake is CP Lite with half the managerial skills. If he gets great players that won't matter as much. Big if.
Probably not fair at this point to say that Jimmy doesn't have the skills to be a good program manager ... but it's a skill set that he's never had to exercise before and he's getting a crash course on it right now
@sonics1993 you obviously know the coaches and have been around the program. Being completely honest and based only on what you have seen of him that maybe the rest of us haven't, do you think Lake us cut out to be a succesful HC or is he just another assistant that will ultimately prove to be not up to the task.
From talking to him and his vision for the program I trust him. But his moves have been completely opposite from what his philosophy of being aggressive all the time. The money was there to fire Bob and KB and he choose to keep them and instead beef up the recruiting department which really didn't need it. Then he hires Terrence Brown and Cato, two unproven coaches who have no track record of success. Then there's the hire of Donovan which no one understands and it's absolutely killing offensive recruiting. I'm still in wait and see mode on Donavan because I like his philosophy and what he wants the offense to look like, we will see if he has the play calling skills. I don't care that he sucks at recruiting as long as he can call plays. But the two biggest red flag for me right now is the fact that it doesn't seem like Jimmy has a plan for recruiting and that he's letting friendship get in the way of making tough decisions. An example of having no plan would be offering Jacob Schuster a gray shirt, telling him that we really want him but we just don't have the numbers right now only to back track on that two months later and offer him a full ride for the 2021 class. Nothing changed number wise in last two months, a lot of schools just offered Jacob and so Jimmy got nervous and backtracked and offered him a full ride but his family wasn't to pleased with the gray shirt offer. And then there's the Julien Simon and Will Latu recruitment which was completely mishandled and so idiotic that I don't want to even talk about. My hope is that these are first year mistakes and Jimmy learns from them like Pete did his first year but I am getting nervous about him. Just really hope we have a season and win 10+ games, that will solve a lot of things.
When did the Schuster offer turn into a '21 offer?
He's probably also a poor planner and administrator. CP was up there with Saban when it came to having a basic idea of what his program was about and having a system to manage the whole thing. It takes more than charisma and relatability.
My guess is that Lake is CP Lite with half the managerial skills. If he gets great players that won't matter as much. Big if.
Probably not fair at this point to say that Jimmy doesn't have the skills to be a good program manager ... but it's a skill set that he's never had to exercise before and he's getting a crash course on it right now
My sense is that growing up under a killer program manager like CP, Jimmy took a lot for granted, it would be human nature for him not to. Pete probably made a lot of stuff seem easy, no matter how many "it's hard" messages he sent.
So, in my mind Jimmy is guilty until proven innocent. There's probably no way he's as good a manager as CP.
Also, I'm a little tired of Jimmy. His defense and calls were weak last year. Especially after playing footsie with Alabama two years in a row, squeezing more dough out of UW.
We've already dumped a lot of resources into Jimmy, so far the payback is limited, especially considering what is on the table.
@sonics1993 you obviously know the coaches and have been around the program. Being completely honest and based only on what you have seen of him that maybe the rest of us haven't, do you think Lake us cut out to be a succesful HC or is he just another assistant that will ultimately prove to be not up to the task.
From talking to him and his vision for the program I trust him. But his moves have been completely opposite from what his philosophy of being aggressive all the time. The money was there to fire Bob and KB and he choose to keep them and instead beef up the recruiting department which really didn't need it. Then he hires Terrence Brown and Cato, two unproven coaches who have no track record of success. Then there's the hire of Donovan which no one understands and it's absolutely killing offensive recruiting. I'm still in wait and see mode on Donavan because I like his philosophy and what he wants the offense to look like, we will see if he has the play calling skills. I don't care that he sucks at recruiting as long as he can call plays. But the two biggest red flag for me right now is the fact that it doesn't seem like Jimmy has a plan for recruiting and that he's letting friendship get in the way of making tough decisions. An example of having no plan would be offering Jacob Schuster a gray shirt, telling him that we really want him but we just don't have the numbers right now only to back track on that two months later and offer him a full ride for the 2021 class. Nothing changed number wise in last two months, a lot of schools just offered Jacob and so Jimmy got nervous and backtracked and offered him a full ride but his family wasn't to pleased with the gray shirt offer. And then there's the Julien Simon and Will Latu recruitment which was completely mishandled and so idiotic that I don't want to even talk about. My hope is that these are first year mistakes and Jimmy learns from them like Pete did his first year but I am getting nervous about him. Just really hope we have a season and win 10+ games, that will solve a lot of things.
When did the Schuster offer turn into a '21 offer?
@sonics1993 please don't do this. Are these guys on staff actual coaches or support staff. Im going to take a cleanse from uw football. This is too stressful with oregon pushing our shit in
One position coach and one person heavily involved with recruiting. I have absolutely no read on this.
Sounds like spin, spin, spin.
Exactly, what else are they going to say. “Things are bad, and we have no plan”
Please don't bring common sense in this conversation. I need this false hope
Even if they are right and somehow they come out of this flipping guys back and getting most of their top targets, it’s an absolutely terrible process. Frankly it reeks of the same shit when we’d stop recruiting in the spring and we’d we lose guys like Ngata, Charbonnet, Jones, etc, we didn’t get those kids back later in the ‘marathon’.
exactly! thought lake would fix this quite honestly where we would just take the spring off basically
And they HAVE to see and know (whether they like it or not) that b/c of the early signing period, most schools are trying to have their classes wrapped up end of August, so the heavy lifting is being done in Feb-May.
At this point, all they have to hang their hat on is the assumption of a avalanche of decommits and hope they can scoop them up.
Can you imagine worse case scenario the virus circles back to the athletes (like it did at Houston) and the NCAA kills official visits for the rest of the year.....
That's what has been so concerning to me for a while and what I don't think most are fully grasping. This whole 'wait till we get em on campus' shit isn't just blind optimism, it's a potentially reckless strategy, if in fact we? actually have a coherent strategy.
There is a realistic possibility that on campus visits will not resume for the remainder of the recruiting cycle, which would be a colossal failure, both in actual recruiting results and in the overall mismanagement of resources.
I read an article in the Athletic probably a month ago where they anonymously interviewed 3 power five recruiting coordinators, one each from the east coast Midwest and west. All 3 were relatively uneasy about things and one in particular was adamant in his belief that on campus visits for the remainder of this cycle remain highly unrealistic. So many moving parts that would have to go right.
Could he be right? Maybe. But the mere possibility that he could be and we would be so unprepared for such a scenario is a scary proposition. Less so for an individual recruiting class than what it could reveal about Jimmy's ability to properly manage a program.
Talked to a couple different guys on the staff and neither of them are concerned about recruiting, in fact they like where they stand in recruiting. I made one of them repeat it because I couldn't believe it. They both told me that when things open back up, it's going to be insane and Washington will be in a very good place to deal with it. Both told me recruiting is a marathon not a sprint and believe come fall, they will flip a lot of these guys including Troy who they are still confident in. I want to believe but all my neutral sources aren't as optimistic so I got no clue how this ends.
Question Sonics: are the position coaches you talk to usually pretty straight up about things going on, whether good or bad? Or do they usually put a positive spin on it? Just wondering how realistic they are being. Thanks!
Honestly they are usually realistic but this year they have been completely off with some of the things they have said.
I have a question. If Jimmy and his staff are banking on decommitments why are they loading up on all these 3 star recruits? Will they be more willing to drop players if a highly rated kid decides they want to join later in the cycle?
Another reason I call BS on their flipping strategy. This staffs track record for actually fighting/scratching/clawing out recruiting battles is bad. Even with Pete, I can only think of Puka, Tuli, Asa, off the top of my head. The kids we have lost late either by giving up has been significantly higher.
Talked to a couple different guys on the staff and neither of them are concerned about recruiting, in fact they like where they stand in recruiting. I made one of them repeat it because I couldn't believe it. They both told me that when things open back up, it's going to be insane and Washington will be in a very good place to deal with it. Both told me recruiting is a marathon not a sprint and believe come fall, they will flip a lot of these guys including Troy who they are still confident in. I want to believe but all my neutral sources aren't as optimistic so I got no clue how this ends.
Question Sonics: are the position coaches you talk to usually pretty straight up about things going on, whether good or bad? Or do they usually put a positive spin on it? Just wondering how realistic they are being. Thanks!
Honestly they are usually realistic but this year they have been completely off with some of the things they have said.
I have a question. If Jimmy and his staff are banking on decommitments why are they loading up on all these 3 star recruits? Will they be more willing to drop players if a highly rated kid decides they want to join later in the cycle?
Another reason I call BS on their flipping strategy. This staffs track record for actually fighting/scratching/clawing out recruiting battles is bad. Even with Pete, I can only think of Puka, Tuli, Asa, off the top of my head. The kids we have lost late either by giving up has been significantly higher.
A.) "This staff" started existing in December. Not complete until January. To what track record are you referring?
B.) The bolded part is a very small sample size. Petersen was the king of boring. They mostly had their classes sewn up early, with very little drama. Based off the trajectory of their recruiting, I think you just called them out for what many staffs are jealous of.
C.) My understanding is it took a zero hour marathon phone session to keep Byron Murphy in the fold. Ty Jones, too. I'm sure there are more that we don't know about.
When I lie to my wife I tell her "yeah, imma gonna do it no problem ... for sure ..." but what I really meant was "yeah, I should have done it before but I fucking forgot so i'm going to do it damn soon ... get off my back!"
Talked to a couple different guys on the staff and neither of them are concerned about recruiting, in fact they like where they stand in recruiting. I made one of them repeat it because I couldn't believe it. They both told me that when things open back up, it's going to be insane and Washington will be in a very good place to deal with it. Both told me recruiting is a marathon not a sprint and believe come fall, they will flip a lot of these guys including Troy who they are still confident in. I want to believe but all my neutral sources aren't as optimistic so I got no clue how this ends.
Question Sonics: are the position coaches you talk to usually pretty straight up about things going on, whether good or bad? Or do they usually put a positive spin on it? Just wondering how realistic they are being. Thanks!
Honestly they are usually realistic but this year they have been completely off with some of the things they have said.
I have a question. If Jimmy and his staff are banking on decommitments why are they loading up on all these 3 star recruits? Will they be more willing to drop players if a highly rated kid decides they want to join later in the cycle?
Another reason I call BS on their flipping strategy. This staffs track record for actually fighting/scratching/clawing out recruiting battles is bad. Even with Pete, I can only think of Puka, Tuli, Asa, off the top of my head. The kids we have lost late either by giving up has been significantly higher.
A.) "This staff" started existing in December. Not complete until January. To what track record are you referring?
B.) The bolded part is a very small sample size. Petersen was the king of boring. They mostly had their classes sewn up early, with very little drama. Based off the trajectory of their recruiting, I think you just called them out for what many staffs are jealous of.
C.) My understanding is it took a zero hour marathon phone session to keep Byron Murphy in the fold. Ty Jones, too. I'm sure there are more that we don't know about.
A. The bulk of this class is the same as when Petersen was in charge. Im taking everyone who has been here since Pete.
B. Yes, Petersen usually had his classes wrapped up before Dec but this is not the case with Lake and Co. If what @sonics1993 has said is true they are hoping/banking on kids decommiting so that they can get them late or flip kids.
C. Two kids they had committed at the time. It an entirely different thing to have a kid decommit and flip to you late. This is what I am trying to get across. Its one thing to keep a guy committed but if your banking on your class to flip guys late it can get ugly. Usually the team that has the guy committed has the upper hand because its easier to keep a guy than flip. Who have we flipped besides a handful of guys? The guys we have flipped were usually due to late coaching changes in Puka and Tuli.
@sonics1993 please don't do this. Are these guys on staff actual coaches or support staff. Im going to take a cleanse from uw football. This is too stressful with oregon pushing our shit in
One position coach and one person heavily involved with recruiting. I have absolutely no read on this.
Sounds like spin, spin, spin.
Exactly, what else are they going to say. “Things are bad, and we have no plan”
Please don't bring common sense in this conversation. I need this false hope
Even if they are right and somehow they come out of this flipping guys back and getting most of their top targets, it’s an absolutely terrible process. Frankly it reeks of the same shit when we’d stop recruiting in the spring and we’d we lose guys like Ngata, Charbonnet, Jones, etc, we didn’t get those kids back later in the ‘marathon’.
exactly! thought lake would fix this quite honestly where we would just take the spring off basically
And they HAVE to see and know (whether they like it or not) that b/c of the early signing period, most schools are trying to have their classes wrapped up end of August, so the heavy lifting is being done in Feb-May.
At this point, all they have to hang their hat on is the assumption of a avalanche of decommits and hope they can scoop them up.
Can you imagine worse case scenario the virus circles back to the athletes (like it did at Houston) and the NCAA kills official visits for the rest of the year.....
That's what has been so concerning to me for a while and what I don't think most are fully grasping. This whole 'wait till we get em on campus' shit isn't just blind optimism, it's a potentially reckless strategy, if in fact we? actually have a coherent strategy.
There is a realistic possibility that on campus visits will not resume for the remainder of the recruiting cycle, which would be a colossal failure, both in actual recruiting results and in the overall mismanagement of resources.
I read an article in the Athletic probably a month ago where they anonymously interviewed 3 power five recruiting coordinators, one each from the east coast Midwest and west. All 3 were relatively uneasy about things and one in particular was adamant in his belief that on campus visits for the remainder of this cycle remain highly unrealistic. So many moving parts that would have to go right.
Could he be right? Maybe. But the mere possibility that he could be and we would be so unprepared for such a scenario is a scary proposition. Less so for an individual recruiting class than what it could reveal about Jimmy's ability to properly manage a program.
If there's no visits that might help with our chances with keeping JTT and EE. If we land those two as a result of no visits but miss out on Troy and a few other 4* then it was a net positive for us.
Comments
My guess is that Lake is CP Lite with half the managerial skills. If he gets great players that won't matter as much. Big if.
So, in my mind Jimmy is guilty until proven innocent. There's probably no way he's as good a manager as CP.
Also, I'm a little tired of Jimmy. His defense and calls were weak last year. Especially after playing footsie with Alabama two years in a row, squeezing more dough out of UW.
We've already dumped a lot of resources into Jimmy, so far the payback is limited, especially considering what is on the table.
There is a realistic possibility that on campus visits will not resume for the remainder of the recruiting cycle, which would be a colossal failure, both in actual recruiting results and in the overall mismanagement of resources.
I read an article in the Athletic probably a month ago where they anonymously interviewed 3 power five recruiting coordinators, one each from the east coast Midwest and west. All 3 were relatively uneasy about things and one in particular was adamant in his belief that on campus visits for the remainder of this cycle remain highly unrealistic. So many moving parts that would have to go right.
Could he be right? Maybe. But the mere possibility that he could be and we would be so unprepared for such a scenario is a scary proposition. Less so for an individual recruiting class than what it could reveal about Jimmy's ability to properly manage a program.
Another reason I call BS on their flipping strategy. This staffs track record for actually fighting/scratching/clawing out recruiting battles is bad. Even with Pete, I can only think of Puka, Tuli, Asa, off the top of my head. The kids we have lost late either by giving up has been significantly higher.
B.) The bolded part is a very small sample size. Petersen was the king of boring. They mostly had their classes sewn up early, with very little drama. Based off the trajectory of their recruiting, I think you just called them out for what many staffs are jealous of.
C.) My understanding is it took a zero hour marathon phone session to keep Byron Murphy in the fold. Ty Jones, too. I'm sure there are more that we don't know about.
When I lie to my wife I tell her "yeah, imma gonna do it no problem ... for sure ..." but what I really meant was "yeah, I should have done it before but I fucking forgot so i'm going to do it damn soon ... get off my back!"
B. Yes, Petersen usually had his classes wrapped up before Dec but this is not the case with Lake and Co. If what @sonics1993 has said is true they are hoping/banking on kids decommiting so that they can get them late or flip kids.
C. Two kids they had committed at the time. It an entirely different thing to have a kid decommit and flip to you late. This is what I am trying to get across. Its one thing to keep a guy committed but if your banking on your class to flip guys late it can get ugly. Usually the team that has the guy committed has the upper hand because its easier to keep a guy than flip. Who have we flipped besides a handful of guys? The guys we have flipped were usually due to late coaching changes in Puka and Tuli.