MLK made us feel good. Malcom X scared us. Today its just ridiculous IMO
A young person of color on an Ivy League campus talking about the struggle.
OK
After reading the first, paragraph I was ready to chin. The Ivy league AA is winning. Do we know how they got there? Speaking out is more for the brothers and sisters which I respect. Turning a blind eye, makes the Ivy league AA a selfish hypocrite.
Sadly, if people are being honest, most people assume they got there with help. If you were white, people would assume you hammered the SATs. If you're not, people assume you did "good enough" on the SATs and had a helping hand.
This is an argument against AA. When friends from college learned I got into some elite law schools, many of them said, "Oh, Georgetown must love you." Not, "you must have hammered the LSAT", which I did.
It's a subtle thing, but it's there. This and related experiences are why I changed my mind about "helping hand" programs years ago. It's a stigma that we place on the target population that keeps them somehow always keeps them in the category of the other people.
Even now: my kids are white and our last name is not stereotypical Hispanic (i.e., not "Sanchez"). Kid got into Brown, and many social reactions were, "Wow. And she's white."
It also tells some black kids they don't need to work as hard as other non-black kids in order to get into college. I've seen all of this first hand. You're already dealing with some teachers who aren't holding black kids, especially black male kids to the same academic standards as the white and Asian kids, and then those kids are being admitted to colleges with grades and test scores that are far lower than whites and Asians.
And the kids all know this. The black kids know that they can get a B on that test on in that class and they'll still be admitted to college. Human nature being what it is, some people, will do the bare minimum of what required to get what they want. I
And they carry that perception into professional life. It contributes to the perception that minorities are not as capable as whites in certain endeavors.
Also for a kid that is prone to be a slacker like my oldest son, it's not a very good message to be sending. The teachers who thought they were doing him a favor by letting him slide really pissed my off and everyone of them were white liberal women.
Old man repeats another story
Our kid brought home a math test with 50% and a B
I was at the school in seconds and yes, it was a white woman who told me he did the best he could
Like hell he did - you think he's going to be a cook at McDonalds? We expect more from him and so should you
MLK made us feel good. Malcom X scared us. Today its just ridiculous IMO
A young person of color on an Ivy League campus talking about the struggle.
OK
After reading the first, paragraph I was ready to chin. The Ivy league AA is winning. Do we know how they got there? Speaking out is more for the brothers and sisters which I respect. Turning a blind eye, makes the Ivy league AA a selfish hypocrite.
Sadly, if people are being honest, most people assume they got there with help. If you were white, people would assume you hammered the SATs. If you're not, people assume you did "good enough" on the SATs and had a helping hand.
This is an argument against AA. When friends from college learned I got into some elite law schools, many of them said, "Oh, Georgetown must love you." Not, "you must have hammered the LSAT", which I did.
It's a subtle thing, but it's there. This and related experiences are why I changed my mind about "helping hand" programs years ago. It's a stigma that we place on the target population that somehow always keeps them in the category of the other people.
Even now: my kids are white and our last name is not stereotypical Hispanic (i.e., not "Sanchez"). Kid got into Brown, and many social reactions were, "Wow. And she's white."
Education costs way to much. Yes, I have a dog in the fight. I make a lot of money but sending my kids through college today is fucking killing me. My kids got good grades but not good enough for any merit based scholarships. A 3.5 GPA and decent test scores doesn't guarantee you get accepted at UW today. I'm paying full retail because too many Chinese and Indians are paying retail. They also raise the average GPA, hence the lower acceptance rates. Laying down the law to your kids to work hard in school is one thing, putting them in the pressure cooker like Asian families do to their kids, I refuse to do.
My education argument gives equal opportunity to all lower middle income families. Obviously the more you make, the less you get. Any subsidies have to be contingent on degrees that offer marketable skills. Using tax payer money for sociology and philosophy degrees are non-starters for me.
You should take a shit on a cop car and flip off some black cops. Maybe post a black square somewhere.
Or cut the bullshit and start fighting the real issue. Government overreach, power, and the bulldozing of the individual.
Leftist control of the education system. The racism industrial complex, the war on poverty, the mocking of the family structure and fathers, personal responsibility being ridiculed, all major cities being controlled by leftists for years and years. Keep doing that. It's working so well.
It's not a leftist issue. It's not a republican issue. It's an us issue. Lefty Joe Biden is every bit the racist, maybe more so than the guys on the right. The lefty hypocrisy is as real as the right. Trump is a racist. He did the right thing denouncing the Minesota Cops but then he slipped right back into his old ways.
Governments don't decide to pull blacks over for driving through white neighborhoods, spoiled white rich entitled bitch calling the cops because a black guy asked her to obey the law and put her dog on a leash is only one of many. Firing that lying bitch is a start. This racist shit is everywhere. Shitting on cop cars is a byproduct of the imbalance. It's fucking gross and disrespectful. That bitch is as much of the problem. In the last 20 years our country suddenly got religion for lesbians and gays. Why have the majority moved so fast protecting them, propagandizing them and leaving our black bro's and sisters behind.
Black soldiers fought and died for our freedom. World War 2. Korea. Nam An old black guy I knew lied about his age to enlist during WW2. Said he was 18 when he was only 16. Landed at Normandy on D-day +1, went inland and faught the Nazis in the hedgerows. He came home and was called a nigger. He was from Alabama and couldn't take a piss in the whiteman's bathroom. He never said shit to me about it because he was old school and sucked it up. He didn't shit on cars. He didn't throw molotov cocktails at cops. He put his life on the line for the freedom we enjoye. He proudly served our country. Makes me sick thinking of what he and others blacks went though. The overwhelming majority of them have taken the whiteman's shit and wore it without fighting back. Today there are still golf clubs that exclude rich black folks and jews from joining their clubs.
I'm late to the party but I'm here. Pointing fingers only shifts the blame.
“ Governments don't decide to pull blacks over for driving through white neighborhoods, spoiled white rich entitled bitch calling the cops because a black guy”
You’re part of the problem if you think the problem is rich white women.
What's your opinion of the white female executive with her dog in the park that called the cops and said a black man was threatening her life? you've seen the video?
It's an indictment of the entire white race
It is. We can say it's not fair, judging all whites for her actions. Maybe you wouldn't do that, but too many whites do. Blacks burning shit and looting isn't right, either.
Again, I would hope we all raise the level but I can't change you. I'm bothered I haven't done more. I'd fight for our country but why haven't I stood up for black Americans? That troubles me. Not your problem, it's on me.
Do you indict the entire black race?
Its textbook racism
It's not that I indicte them. I'd be lying, though, if I don't have an initial bias, just for a split section. I think if we're honest, most of us do. It doesn't color my actions. I certainly don't take Sleepy Joe's view he's better a choice for blacks than Trump. This is a message bored conversation.
I like having you here. No homo.
You are definitely a breath of fresh air compared to the other representations of "the left" in here.
Gonna challenge that a little bit. How so? Fuck, b4 today I had no idea what Baseman's politics were, and basically still don't other than on this issue.
Sure, Hondo and the other bots are stupid and annoying. That;s trolling. But Baseman's post, some of which I actually agree with him on, is a view, or series of views, that is normally TORN TO SHREDS in the Tug.
The only guy I've seen go after him hard are Damone and Bob.
Sorry, not sorry. This thread would normally go 20 pages long with colorful variations of "Fuck you" based on its content.
I'm fucking jealous and not going to take it anymore.
I myself dream of a day when a post is judged not by the identity of its poster, but by the content of its post.
Disagree.
Baseman is a veteran of HH so doesn't let the "fuck you" shit bother him and just keeps on posting his point of view. I disagree with lots of what he's posting but he's doing so in good faith.
I can agree to disagree with people and have an earnest discussion with them. Baseman also comes off as open to listening and changing his mind on subjects as opposed to those who would rather double down when shown to be wrong on a subject...
I think this is exactly the opposite of what you are saying. His posting is being judged by it's motivation not by his identity.
TLDR he acts like an adult in the room even if his views don't fit with my(or the tug's) particular politics.
You're just saying that because he's Baseman.
Alright, fair enough. But his original post and follow-on post (again, much of which I agree) is loaded with content that we? normally tear up pretty hard in the Tug. I think the veteran HH status helped him today more than you're letting on.
Again, sorry but not sorry. We don't always extend that courtesy in this tavern. That's ok. Leave me to my hurt feelings ese. This is more about my issues.
MLK made us feel good. Malcom X scared us. Today its just ridiculous IMO
A young person of color on an Ivy League campus talking about the struggle.
OK
After reading the first, paragraph I was ready to chin. The Ivy league AA is winning. Do we know how they got there? Speaking out is more for the brothers and sisters which I respect. Turning a blind eye, makes the Ivy league AA a selfish hypocrite.
Sadly, if people are being honest, most people assume they got there with help. If you were white, people would assume you hammered the SATs. If you're not, people assume you did "good enough" on the SATs and had a helping hand.
This is an argument against AA. When friends from college learned I got into some elite law schools, many of them said, "Oh, Georgetown must love you." Not, "you must have hammered the LSAT", which I did.
It's a subtle thing, but it's there. This and related experiences are why I changed my mind about "helping hand" programs years ago. It's a stigma that we place on the target population that somehow always keeps them in the category of the other people.
Even now: my kids are white and our last name is not stereotypical Hispanic (i.e., not "Sanchez"). Kid got into Brown, and many social reactions were, "Wow. And she's white."
Look fuckhead - kidding
When I wrote that I thought of that young person of color being on an Ivy League campus due to rich parents and privilege like the white kids there. And the grades and SAT
AA isn't even a thing anymore legally. I get that the argument against it, one of them, was that when Blacks achieved it would be said to be because of AA. Media and entertainment enforced that while claiming to be against it
I know. I was responding to the question posed by that poster you like more than me: how the AA kid got to the Ivy campus. And quotas are illegal; but taking diversity into consideration in admissions is not illegal unless you're in a state like Cali or Washington that has a law that applies to public schools saying you can't even do that. But privates can do it even in those states, and they do. I think Washington just repealed that law but I think it's still on the books in Cali.
Berkeley continues to get "caught" tripping the federal barrier that makes quotas unconstitutional. It's a splitting hairs issue, but as you might expect, schools use those cracks of daylight to do what they want to do.
Biggest impact of California's Prop 209 is that it increased the number of Asians. Plenty of blacks and Hispanics still get into the UC system they just have a little harder time getting into Cal and UCLA, but you're right, the schools are always finding ways to get around the law. Won't need to do that for much longer, now that California is a one party state they're getting ready to do away with 209 and re-impose race based discrimination on whites and Asians.
MLK made us feel good. Malcom X scared us. Today its just ridiculous IMO
A young person of color on an Ivy League campus talking about the struggle.
OK
After reading the first, paragraph I was ready to chin. The Ivy league AA is winning. Do we know how they got there? Speaking out is more for the brothers and sisters which I respect. Turning a blind eye, makes the Ivy league AA a selfish hypocrite.
Sadly, if people are being honest, most people assume they got there with help. If you were white, people would assume you hammered the SATs. If you're not, people assume you did "good enough" on the SATs and had a helping hand.
This is an argument against AA. When friends from college learned I got into some elite law schools, many of them said, "Oh, Georgetown must love you." Not, "you must have hammered the LSAT", which I did.
It's a subtle thing, but it's there. This and related experiences are why I changed my mind about "helping hand" programs years ago. It's a stigma that we place on the target population that somehow always keeps them in the category of the other people.
Even now: my kids are white and our last name is not stereotypical Hispanic (i.e., not "Sanchez"). Kid got into Brown, and many social reactions were, "Wow. And she's white."
Education costs way to much. Yes, I have a dog in the fight. I make a lot of money but sending my kids through college today is fucking killing me. My kids got good grades but not good enough for any merit based scholarships. A 3.5 GPA and decent test scores doesn't guarantee you get accepted at UW today. I'm paying full retail because too many Chinese and Indians are paying retail. They also raise the average GPA, hence the lower acceptance rates. Laying down the law to your kids to work hard in school is one thing, putting them in the pressure cooker like Asian families do to their kids, I refuse to do.
My education argument gives equal opportunity to all lower middle income families. Obviously the more you make, the less you get. Any subsidies have to be contingent on degrees that offer marketable skills. Using tax payer money for sociology and philosophy degrees are non-starters for me.
I'm completely fine with capping the number of CCP brats we give student visas to. I'm sure that would go over as well as the Chinese travel ban for coronavirus if Trump proposed it.
I'm going to take this a different direction for a bit. The thread's been a great read.
"Tacoma's finest killed another black man today. "
This is one of the other problems that needs to be fixed in our society. That statement is a twitter headline but is actually factually not accurate at all.
No one cares to actually dig into the details. The twitter soundbites and the new media stoke the fires. A black man died/possibly was killed back in March by police. This was after he was high in a euphoric state and banging on the cop car and then fought with officers for a few minutes. The were 4 officers involved. They weren't all white, FYI. An investigation into this incident involving the Tacoma PD is being headed up by the Pierce County Sheriff's office. Both the Mayor of Tacoma, who happens to be african american, and the Pierce County Sheriff held press conferences yesterday to describe the situation and investigation.
Police encountered Ellis on his walk home at 11:22 p.m.
They say he was harassing a woman at the intersection of 96th Street South and Ainsworth Avenue and pounding on her car window. He also tried to open the doors of occupied vehicles, police said.
When two officers in the area asked him what he was doing, Ellis allegedly told them he had warrants and wanted to talk to them.
Then he repeatedly struck their patrol car.
The two officers inside notified dispatch they needed priority backup then got out of the car.
“He picked up the officer by his vest and slam-dunked him on the ground,” Ed Troyer, spokesman of the Pierce County Sheriff’s Department, which is investigating the incident, told The News Tribune on Tuesday. “He never tried to run, he engaged with the officers and started a fight.”
There was a struggle before police got Ellis handcuffed on the ground.
Officers called for paramedics at 11:25 p.m.
Within a minute of firefighters arriving on scene, Ellis stopped breathing and lost consciousness.
Paramedics performed CPR for 40 minutes, but he was pronounced dead at the scene, investigators said.
He’d been arrested in September for allegedly punching several employees at a fast-food restaurant before running outside, stripping off his clothes and sprinting down the street. Deputies used a stun gun in that case because he resisted arrest and struggled, court records say.
As for the bigger picture, totally agree with the situation african americans are in. We have to do better as a society. Absolutely.
My understanding is the officers the knee to the back or throat and continued it after the guy was cuffed. I knew one of the officers was black and knew the guy resisted arrest.
MLK made us feel good. Malcom X scared us. Today its just ridiculous IMO
A young person of color on an Ivy League campus talking about the struggle.
OK
After reading the first, paragraph I was ready to chin. The Ivy league AA is winning. Do we know how they got there? Speaking out is more for the brothers and sisters which I respect. Turning a blind eye, makes the Ivy league AA a selfish hypocrite.
Sadly, if people are being honest, most people assume they got there with help. If you were white, people would assume you hammered the SATs. If you're not, people assume you did "good enough" on the SATs and had a helping hand.
This is an argument against AA. When friends from college learned I got into some elite law schools, many of them said, "Oh, Georgetown must love you." Not, "you must have hammered the LSAT", which I did.
It's a subtle thing, but it's there. This and related experiences are why I changed my mind about "helping hand" programs years ago. It's a stigma that we place on the target population that somehow always keeps them in the category of the other people.
Even now: my kids are white and our last name is not stereotypical Hispanic (i.e., not "Sanchez"). Kid got into Brown, and many social reactions were, "Wow. And she's white."
Education costs way to much. Yes, I have a dog in the fight. I make a lot of money but sending my kids through college today is fucking killing me. My kids got good grades but not good enough for any merit based scholarships. A 3.5 GPA and decent test scores doesn't guarantee you get accepted at UW today. I'm paying full retail because too many Chinese and Indians are paying retail. They also raise the average GPA, hence the lower acceptance rates. Laying down the law to your kids to work hard in school is one thing, putting them in the pressure cooker like Asian families do to their kids, I refuse to do.
My education argument gives equal opportunity to all lower middle income families. Obviously the more you make, the less you get. Any subsidies have to be contingent on degrees that offer marketable skills. Using tax payer money for sociology and philosophy degrees are non-starters for me.
Forget the guaranttee; it won't get you into UW if diversity is not on your application.
And you are preaching to the choir. I am close to wrapping up two kids attending fancy schmancy liberal arts colleges in New England. The kind with > $1 billion endowments. Merit scholarships are limited and generally unheard of. Why, with all that money, you ask? Because they want the best and brightest, and they know if you applied and were good enough to get in, you're coming if your parents can pay. They also know that if you applied, good enough to get in and your parents can't pay that you're not coming because you can't pull it out of your ass. They save all that money "competing" for students with merit and give it to the kids who need it.
So, if you make over $X, and I do, you're paying full freight baby - $60K + a year full freight. Ask @DuckHHunterisafag what I'm talking about. He's doing it too.
In some ways, it's better ... there's more money for the kids for whom it's otherwise impossible to finance. But it hits upper middle class people very hard. I've basically got a couple of Ferraris I never got to drive.
The trick to this philanthropy model is to be elite enough that the kids and their families will send them anyway, and why that is would occupy another thread. My kid got into UW Honors college and said no so that I could pay out of my ass somewhere else.
This is also a more broadly complicated issue, because whether we admit it out loud or not, we, in the US, like the freedom to be different and chase the brass ring, whatever that means to us. So if I have to pay out of my ass in taxes to help make all the schools more level, I lose the freedom to send my kids to what I perceive to be a superior place. Is that the answer? Maybe, but there will be resistance.
Btw, I agree with a lot of your post. The kids are home and we had a lot of discussion about this last night. There is something going on with our black community and, while things have ostensibly improved, there are issues that remain to be examined and understood.
MLK made us feel good. Malcom X scared us. Today its just ridiculous IMO
A young person of color on an Ivy League campus talking about the struggle.
OK
After reading the first, paragraph I was ready to chin. The Ivy league AA is winning. Do we know how they got there? Speaking out is more for the brothers and sisters which I respect. Turning a blind eye, makes the Ivy league AA a selfish hypocrite.
Sadly, if people are being honest, most people assume they got there with help. If you were white, people would assume you hammered the SATs. If you're not, people assume you did "good enough" on the SATs and had a helping hand.
This is an argument against AA. When friends from college learned I got into some elite law schools, many of them said, "Oh, Georgetown must love you." Not, "you must have hammered the LSAT", which I did.
It's a subtle thing, but it's there. This and related experiences are why I changed my mind about "helping hand" programs years ago. It's a stigma that we place on the target population that somehow always keeps them in the category of the other people.
Even now: my kids are white and our last name is not stereotypical Hispanic (i.e., not "Sanchez"). Kid got into Brown, and many social reactions were, "Wow. And she's white."
Education costs way to much. Yes, I have a dog in the fight. I make a lot of money but sending my kids through college today is fucking killing me. My kids got good grades but not good enough for any merit based scholarships. A 3.5 GPA and decent test scores doesn't guarantee you get accepted at UW today. I'm paying full retail because too many Chinese and Indians are paying retail. They also raise the average GPA, hence the lower acceptance rates. Laying down the law to your kids to work hard in school is one thing, putting them in the pressure cooker like Asian families do to their kids, I refuse to do.
My education argument gives equal opportunity to all lower middle income families. Obviously the more you make, the less you get. Any subsidies have to be contingent on degrees that offer marketable skills. Using tax payer money for sociology and philosophy degrees are non-starters for me.
Do you acknowledge that government loans distorted the price of higher education? More loans will not lower prices
The number one rule is that people charge what they do because they can. I'm the numbers guy. I don't price work on what it is fair. I price it based on what I can get away with.
You should take a shit on a cop car and flip off some black cops. Maybe post a black square somewhere.
Or cut the bullshit and start fighting the real issue. Government overreach, power, and the bulldozing of the individual.
Leftist control of the education system. The racism industrial complex, the war on poverty, the mocking of the family structure and fathers, personal responsibility being ridiculed, all major cities being controlled by leftists for years and years. Keep doing that. It's working so well.
It's not a leftist issue. It's not a republican issue. It's an us issue. Lefty Joe Biden is every bit the racist, maybe more so than the guys on the right. The lefty hypocrisy is as real as the right. Trump is a racist. He did the right thing denouncing the Minesota Cops but then he slipped right back into his old ways.
Governments don't decide to pull blacks over for driving through white neighborhoods, spoiled white rich entitled bitch calling the cops because a black guy asked her to obey the law and put her dog on a leash is only one of many. Firing that lying bitch is a start. This racist shit is everywhere. Shitting on cop cars is a byproduct of the imbalance. It's fucking gross and disrespectful. That bitch is as much of the problem. In the last 20 years our country suddenly got religion for lesbians and gays. Why have the majority moved so fast protecting them, propagandizing them and leaving our black bro's and sisters behind.
Black soldiers fought and died for our freedom. World War 2. Korea. Nam An old black guy I knew lied about his age to enlist during WW2. Said he was 18 when he was only 16. Landed at Normandy on D-day +1, went inland and faught the Nazis in the hedgerows. He came home and was called a nigger. He was from Alabama and couldn't take a piss in the whiteman's bathroom. He never said shit to me about it because he was old school and sucked it up. He didn't shit on cars. He didn't throw molotov cocktails at cops. He put his life on the line for the freedom we enjoye. He proudly served our country. Makes me sick thinking of what he and others blacks went though. The overwhelming majority of them have taken the whiteman's shit and wore it without fighting back. Today there are still golf clubs that exclude rich black folks and jews from joining their clubs.
I'm late to the party but I'm here. Pointing fingers only shifts the blame.
“ Governments don't decide to pull blacks over for driving through white neighborhoods, spoiled white rich entitled bitch calling the cops because a black guy”
You’re part of the problem if you think the problem is rich white women.
What's your opinion of the white female executive with her dog in the park that called the cops and said a black man was threatening her life? you've seen the video?
It's an indictment of the entire white race
It is. We can say it's not fair, judging all whites for her actions. Maybe you wouldn't do that, but too many whites do. Blacks burning shit and looting isn't right, either.
Again, I would hope we all raise the level but I can't change you. I'm bothered I haven't done more. I'd fight for our country but why haven't I stood up for black Americans? That troubles me. Not your problem, it's on me.
Do you indict the entire black race?
Its textbook racism
It's not that I indicte them. I'd be lying, though, if I don't have an initial bias, just for a split section. I think if we're honest, most of us do. It doesn't color my actions. I certainly don't take Sleepy Joe's view he's better a choice for blacks than Trump. This is a message bored conversation.
I like having you here. No homo.
You are definitely a breath of fresh air compared to the other representations of "the left" in here.
Gonna challenge that a little bit. How so? Fuck, b4 today I had no idea what Baseman's politics were, and basically still don't other than on this issue.
Sure, Hondo and the other bots are stupid and annoying. That;s trolling. But Baseman's post, some of which I actually agree with him on, is a view, or series of views, that is normally TORN TO SHREDS in the Tug.
The only guy I've seen go after him hard are Damone and Bob.
Sorry, not sorry. This thread would normally go 20 pages long with colorful variations of "Fuck you" based on its content.
I'm fucking jealous and not going to take it anymore.
I myself dream of a day when a post is judged not by the identity of its poster, but by the content of its post.
I went after him hard? How so?
I disagree that more government addresses the issues. Government is the problem. The solutions proposed are more government. It will make it worse.
You basically called out the entire premise of his post. Hard like that.
Ok. I see. But it wasn't Hondo level "You're a god damn idiot" hard.
Someday I may right a long self serving letter to America about how I am AGAINST racism
For now I'll say that even a shitty dad like me made a huge difference in our son's life simply by being there and showing that if you go to work every day you can provide for your family. His mama beat the bad out of him and every time the report came home I cringed. He told me his friend were saying he was acting white. I asked to speak to them since I did coach the 8th grade basketball team and knew them
I gave the America is not about black or white its about green speech that ranks second only to I have a dream. I said fellas the object is to make money and education helps that and if that is acting white then the Klan couldn't come up with a better plan to keep you down.
I also think Malcom X is 100 times better than today's so called Black leaders. He would never beg or ask to be equal. He knew he was. He didn't pine for integration he wanted Black business and power. He didn't need Whitey's permission.
I took a Black Studies class at UW in 1975 before most of you woke motherfuckers were born. We've been having a discussion about race for 50 years
Talk is cheap.
He also called for violence against whites.
Violence against whites when justified
I just finished a book on Malcolm X. Early on you are correct in his stance on violence against whitey but toward the end of his life he seemed to be advocating that violence only in cases of self defense.
Just a point of clarification.
He also went to Mecca and saw Muslims of all races which started him away from the Black Muslims to a different world view. Called out Elijah for being a pedophile and it cost him his life
I blame Bumpy Johnson.
Actually I don't - but wood his mistress on the show.
You should take a shit on a cop car and flip off some black cops. Maybe post a black square somewhere.
Or cut the bullshit and start fighting the real issue. Government overreach, power, and the bulldozing of the individual.
Leftist control of the education system. The racism industrial complex, the war on poverty, the mocking of the family structure and fathers, personal responsibility being ridiculed, all major cities being controlled by leftists for years and years. Keep doing that. It's working so well.
It's not a leftist issue. It's not a republican issue. It's an us issue. Lefty Joe Biden is every bit the racist, maybe more so than the guys on the right. The lefty hypocrisy is as real as the right. Trump is a racist. He did the right thing denouncing the Minesota Cops but then he slipped right back into his old ways.
Governments don't decide to pull blacks over for driving through white neighborhoods, spoiled white rich entitled bitch calling the cops because a black guy asked her to obey the law and put her dog on a leash is only one of many. Firing that lying bitch is a start. This racist shit is everywhere. Shitting on cop cars is a byproduct of the imbalance. It's fucking gross and disrespectful. That bitch is as much of the problem. In the last 20 years our country suddenly got religion for lesbians and gays. Why have the majority moved so fast protecting them, propagandizing them and leaving our black bro's and sisters behind.
Black soldiers fought and died for our freedom. World War 2. Korea. Nam An old black guy I knew lied about his age to enlist during WW2. Said he was 18 when he was only 16. Landed at Normandy on D-day +1, went inland and faught the Nazis in the hedgerows. He came home and was called a nigger. He was from Alabama and couldn't take a piss in the whiteman's bathroom. He never said shit to me about it because he was old school and sucked it up. He didn't shit on cars. He didn't throw molotov cocktails at cops. He put his life on the line for the freedom we enjoye. He proudly served our country. Makes me sick thinking of what he and others blacks went though. The overwhelming majority of them have taken the whiteman's shit and wore it without fighting back. Today there are still golf clubs that exclude rich black folks and jews from joining their clubs.
I'm late to the party but I'm here. Pointing fingers only shifts the blame.
“ Governments don't decide to pull blacks over for driving through white neighborhoods, spoiled white rich entitled bitch calling the cops because a black guy”
You’re part of the problem if you think the problem is rich white women.
What's your opinion of the white female executive with her dog in the park that called the cops and said a black man was threatening her life? you've seen the video?
It's an indictment of the entire white race
It is. We can say it's not fair, judging all whites for her actions. Maybe you wouldn't do that, but too many whites do. Blacks burning shit and looting isn't right, either.
Again, I would hope we all raise the level but I can't change you. I'm bothered I haven't done more. I'd fight for our country but why haven't I stood up for black Americans? That troubles me. Not your problem, it's on me.
Do you indict the entire black race?
Its textbook racism
It's not that I indicte them. I'd be lying, though, if I don't have an initial bias, just for a split section. I think if we're honest, most of us do. It doesn't color my actions. I certainly don't take Sleepy Joe's view he's better a choice for blacks than Trump. This is a message bored conversation.
I like having you here. No homo.
You are definitely a breath of fresh air compared to the other representations of "the left" in here.
Gonna challenge that a little bit. How so? Fuck, b4 today I had no idea what Baseman's politics were, and basically still don't other than on this issue.
Sure, Hondo and the other bots are stupid and annoying. That;s trolling. But Baseman's post, some of which I actually agree with him on, is a view, or series of views, that is normally TORN TO SHREDS in the Tug.
The only guy I've seen go after him hard are Damone and Bob.
Sorry, not sorry. This thread would normally go 20 pages long with colorful variations of "Fuck you" based on its content.
I'm fucking jealous and not going to take it anymore.
I myself dream of a day when a post is judged not by the identity of its poster, but by the content of its post.
Disagree.
Baseman is a veteran of HH so doesn't let the "fuck you" shit bother him and just keeps on posting his point of view. I disagree with lots of what he's posting but he's doing so in good faith.
I can agree to disagree with people and have an earnest discussion with them. Baseman also comes off as open to listening and changing his mind on subjects as opposed to those who would rather double down when shown to be wrong on a subject...
I think this is exactly the opposite of what you are saying. His posting is being judged by it's motivation not by his identity.
TLDR he acts like an adult in the room even if his views don't fit with my(or the tug's) particular politics.
I'm not an adult, I just like a little 7-11 in my life
I used to be willing to fight anyone, anywhere. (CSB) I've grown wiser. I don't have the reflexes and fast twitch I used to 30 years ago and am at risk for getting a good ass kicking. Being a message bored TUFF, hiding behind an avatar helps fill the void.
I'm going to take this a different direction for a bit. The thread's been a great read.
"Tacoma's finest killed another black man today. "
This is one of the other problems that needs to be fixed in our society. That statement is a twitter headline but is actually factually not accurate at all.
No one cares to actually dig into the details. The twitter soundbites and the new media stoke the fires. A black man died/possibly was killed back in March by police. This was after he was high in a euphoric state and banging on the cop car and then fought with officers for a few minutes. The were 4 officers involved. They weren't all white, FYI. An investigation into this incident involving the Tacoma PD is being headed up by the Pierce County Sheriff's office. Both the Mayor of Tacoma, who happens to be african american, and the Pierce County Sheriff held press conferences yesterday to describe the situation and investigation.
Police encountered Ellis on his walk home at 11:22 p.m.
They say he was harassing a woman at the intersection of 96th Street South and Ainsworth Avenue and pounding on her car window. He also tried to open the doors of occupied vehicles, police said.
When two officers in the area asked him what he was doing, Ellis allegedly told them he had warrants and wanted to talk to them.
Then he repeatedly struck their patrol car.
The two officers inside notified dispatch they needed priority backup then got out of the car.
“He picked up the officer by his vest and slam-dunked him on the ground,” Ed Troyer, spokesman of the Pierce County Sheriff’s Department, which is investigating the incident, told The News Tribune on Tuesday. “He never tried to run, he engaged with the officers and started a fight.”
There was a struggle before police got Ellis handcuffed on the ground.
Officers called for paramedics at 11:25 p.m.
Within a minute of firefighters arriving on scene, Ellis stopped breathing and lost consciousness.
Paramedics performed CPR for 40 minutes, but he was pronounced dead at the scene, investigators said.
He’d been arrested in September for allegedly punching several employees at a fast-food restaurant before running outside, stripping off his clothes and sprinting down the street. Deputies used a stun gun in that case because he resisted arrest and struggled, court records say.
As for the bigger picture, totally agree with the situation african americans are in. We have to do better as a society. Absolutely.
My understanding is the officers the knee to the back or throat and continued it after the guy was cuffed. I knew one of the officers was black and knew the guy resisted arrest.
Not something I've seen written or spoken about anywhere...where'd you get that? I respect the discussion you're starting here but you're kind of making my point. And of course you left those other key details out...
MLK made us feel good. Malcom X scared us. Today its just ridiculous IMO
A young person of color on an Ivy League campus talking about the struggle.
OK
After reading the first, paragraph I was ready to chin. The Ivy league AA is winning. Do we know how they got there? Speaking out is more for the brothers and sisters which I respect. Turning a blind eye, makes the Ivy league AA a selfish hypocrite.
Sadly, if people are being honest, most people assume they got there with help. If you were white, people would assume you hammered the SATs. If you're not, people assume you did "good enough" on the SATs and had a helping hand.
This is an argument against AA. When friends from college learned I got into some elite law schools, many of them said, "Oh, Georgetown must love you." Not, "you must have hammered the LSAT", which I did.
It's a subtle thing, but it's there. This and related experiences are why I changed my mind about "helping hand" programs years ago. It's a stigma that we place on the target population that somehow always keeps them in the category of the other people.
Even now: my kids are white and our last name is not stereotypical Hispanic (i.e., not "Sanchez"). Kid got into Brown, and many social reactions were, "Wow. And she's white."
Education costs way to much. Yes, I have a dog in the fight. I make a lot of money but sending my kids through college today is fucking killing me. My kids got good grades but not good enough for any merit based scholarships. A 3.5 GPA and decent test scores doesn't guarantee you get accepted at UW today. I'm paying full retail because too many Chinese and Indians are paying retail. They also raise the average GPA, hence the lower acceptance rates. Laying down the law to your kids to work hard in school is one thing, putting them in the pressure cooker like Asian families do to their kids, I refuse to do.
My education argument gives equal opportunity to all lower middle income families. Obviously the more you make, the less you get. Any subsidies have to be contingent on degrees that offer marketable skills. Using tax payer money for sociology and philosophy degrees are non-starters for me.
Do you acknowledge that government loans distorted the price of higher education? More loans will not lower prices
The number one rule is that people charge what they do because they can. I'm the numbers guy. I don't price work on what it is fair. I price it based on what I can get away with.
Probably. That makes sense. Trade schools might be part of the answer. They cost less. A friend of mine is an academic advisor and told me UPS, Amazon, among others lineup for Bates Votec students and the recruiting begins prior to graduating. Bates offers computer programming. Starting pay ranges anywhere from $50,000 to $60,000 plus benefits. I'd wager skilled programmers have even better options.
Our education system is broken and Americans are losing good jobs. Tariffs and holding onto steel and coal workers aren't the answer.
I think we can pay for this without raising taxes if by the Dems trading welfare for upfront education funding. Most rational Americans would support eliminating welfare in exchange for better and more affordable education. AOC and Bernie want their cake. My hunch is enough republicans and democrats could come off their hardline positions and get it done.
I'm going to take this a different direction for a bit. The thread's been a great read.
"Tacoma's finest killed another black man today. "
This is one of the other problems that needs to be fixed in our society. That statement is a twitter headline but is actually factually not accurate at all.
No one cares to actually dig into the details. The twitter soundbites and the new media stoke the fires. A black man died/possibly was killed back in March by police. This was after he was high in a euphoric state and banging on the cop car and then fought with officers for a few minutes. The were 4 officers involved. They weren't all white, FYI. An investigation into this incident involving the Tacoma PD is being headed up by the Pierce County Sheriff's office. Both the Mayor of Tacoma, who happens to be african american, and the Pierce County Sheriff held press conferences yesterday to describe the situation and investigation.
Police encountered Ellis on his walk home at 11:22 p.m.
They say he was harassing a woman at the intersection of 96th Street South and Ainsworth Avenue and pounding on her car window. He also tried to open the doors of occupied vehicles, police said.
When two officers in the area asked him what he was doing, Ellis allegedly told them he had warrants and wanted to talk to them.
Then he repeatedly struck their patrol car.
The two officers inside notified dispatch they needed priority backup then got out of the car.
“He picked up the officer by his vest and slam-dunked him on the ground,” Ed Troyer, spokesman of the Pierce County Sheriff’s Department, which is investigating the incident, told The News Tribune on Tuesday. “He never tried to run, he engaged with the officers and started a fight.”
There was a struggle before police got Ellis handcuffed on the ground.
Officers called for paramedics at 11:25 p.m.
Within a minute of firefighters arriving on scene, Ellis stopped breathing and lost consciousness.
Paramedics performed CPR for 40 minutes, but he was pronounced dead at the scene, investigators said.
He’d been arrested in September for allegedly punching several employees at a fast-food restaurant before running outside, stripping off his clothes and sprinting down the street. Deputies used a stun gun in that case because he resisted arrest and struggled, court records say.
As for the bigger picture, totally agree with the situation african americans are in. We have to do better as a society. Absolutely.
My understanding is the officers the knee to the back or throat and continued it after the guy was cuffed. I knew one of the officers was black and knew the guy resisted arrest.
Not something I've seen written or spoken about anywhere...where'd you get that? I respect the discussion you're starting here but you're kind of making my point. And of course you left those other key details out...
Tacoma Police officers killed a black man. Not good in the current environment. I wasn't trying to prove a point. It's the narrative the public buys. Our cops need better methods for restraining resistant suspects. When you're under arrest, you're under arrest. Stand down, get in the car. If you don't, you're going to get ruffled up. It goes too far, though. I'm sure there are cases of whites who have experienced the same. I don't buy for a minute the percentages are the same.
Mark Furhman didn't plant the glove but he was definitely a racist. I have no doubt he did much of what he said on those tapes. He might be an outlier but there seem to be too many outliers, still today.
MLK made us feel good. Malcom X scared us. Today its just ridiculous IMO
A young person of color on an Ivy League campus talking about the struggle.
OK
After reading the first, paragraph I was ready to chin. The Ivy league AA is winning. Do we know how they got there? Speaking out is more for the brothers and sisters which I respect. Turning a blind eye, makes the Ivy league AA a selfish hypocrite.
Sadly, if people are being honest, most people assume they got there with help. If you were white, people would assume you hammered the SATs. If you're not, people assume you did "good enough" on the SATs and had a helping hand.
This is an argument against AA. When friends from college learned I got into some elite law schools, many of them said, "Oh, Georgetown must love you." Not, "you must have hammered the LSAT", which I did.
It's a subtle thing, but it's there. This and related experiences are why I changed my mind about "helping hand" programs years ago. It's a stigma that we place on the target population that somehow always keeps them in the category of the other people.
Even now: my kids are white and our last name is not stereotypical Hispanic (i.e., not "Sanchez"). Kid got into Brown, and many social reactions were, "Wow. And she's white."
Education costs way to much. Yes, I have a dog in the fight. I make a lot of money but sending my kids through college today is fucking killing me. My kids got good grades but not good enough for any merit based scholarships. A 3.5 GPA and decent test scores doesn't guarantee you get accepted at UW today. I'm paying full retail because too many Chinese and Indians are paying retail. They also raise the average GPA, hence the lower acceptance rates. Laying down the law to your kids to work hard in school is one thing, putting them in the pressure cooker like Asian families do to their kids, I refuse to do.
My education argument gives equal opportunity to all lower middle income families. Obviously the more you make, the less you get. Any subsidies have to be contingent on degrees that offer marketable skills. Using tax payer money for sociology and philosophy degrees are non-starters for me.
Do you acknowledge that government loans distorted the price of higher education? More loans will not lower prices
The number one rule is that people charge what they do because they can. I'm the numbers guy. I don't price work on what it is fair. I price it based on what I can get away with.
Probably. That makes sense. Trade schools might be part of the answer. They cost less. A friend of mine is an academic advisor and told me UPS, Amazon, among others lineup for Bates Votec students and the recruiting begins prior to graduating. Bates offers computer programming. Starting pay ranges anywhere from $50,000 to $60,000 plus benefits. I'd wager skilled programmers have even better options.
Our education system is broken and Americans are losing good jobs. Tariffs and holding onto steel and coal workers aren't the answer.
I think we can pay for this without raising taxes if by the Dems trading welfare for upfront education funding. Most rational Americans would support eliminating welfare in exchange for better and more affordable education. AOC and Bernie want their cake. My hunch is enough republicans and democrats could come off their hardline positions and get it done.
Trade schools are a YUGE part of the answer. I always say if you need a building in LA you can't outsource it to India you can only in source cheap labor to keep the price of labor down. Despite what you may hear this is the genesis of my support for Trump to stop illegal immigration. Ceaser Chavez knew this 50 years ago.
I'm not a union guy but unions used to have apprenticeship programs where you got paid while you learned. Unions lost their way too.
The onus should be on the colleges to tamp back tuition by stopping to subsidize it with guaranteed loans. Parents and their kids need to make better choices. If you can get a degree at a local inexpensive college do it. No one gives a fuck in the real world if you can do the job.
I dropped out of college twice and it was cheap then. Wasn't for me. We have trailers full of retards now with construction degrees that don't know which side of a hammer to hold
MLK made us feel good. Malcom X scared us. Today its just ridiculous IMO
A young person of color on an Ivy League campus talking about the struggle.
OK
After reading the first, paragraph I was ready to chin. The Ivy league AA is winning. Do we know how they got there? Speaking out is more for the brothers and sisters which I respect. Turning a blind eye, makes the Ivy league AA a selfish hypocrite.
Sadly, if people are being honest, most people assume they got there with help. If you were white, people would assume you hammered the SATs. If you're not, people assume you did "good enough" on the SATs and had a helping hand.
This is an argument against AA. When friends from college learned I got into some elite law schools, many of them said, "Oh, Georgetown must love you." Not, "you must have hammered the LSAT", which I did.
It's a subtle thing, but it's there. This and related experiences are why I changed my mind about "helping hand" programs years ago. It's a stigma that we place on the target population that keeps them somehow always keeps them in the category of the other people.
Even now: my kids are white and our last name is not stereotypical Hispanic (i.e., not "Sanchez"). Kid got into Brown, and many social reactions were, "Wow. And she's white."
It also tells some black kids they don't need to work as hard as other non-black kids in order to get into college. I've seen all of this first hand. You're already dealing with some teachers who aren't holding black kids, especially black male kids to the same academic standards as the white and Asian kids, and then those kids are being admitted to colleges with grades and test scores that are far lower than whites and Asians.
And the kids all know this. The black kids know that they can get a B on that test on in that class and they'll still be admitted to college. Human nature being what it is, some people, will do the bare minimum of what required to get what they want. I
And they carry that perception into professional life. It contributes to the perception that minorities are not as capable as whites in certain endeavors.
Also for a kid that is prone to be a slacker like my oldest son, it's not a very good message to be sending. The teachers who thought they were doing him a favor by letting him slide really pissed my off and everyone of them were white liberal women.
Yeah and that is part of the problem. Orange slices feel nice but they don't move the needle. Those teachers reinforce sliding is ok. In the long run that helps no one.
I just hear that their life is harder. Sure, if you are a child of a single parent your life is going to be harder. That's true if you are black or white. I'd start with telling anyone who wants a better life for them and their kids is not to have kids until they are married, stay married, get a job and make sure your kids get an education. For some reason, I'm not hearing that coming from anyone on the nightly news of the "mostly peaceful protests". If you bring up the black illegitimacy rate that is per se racist in 2020 just as it was when Moynihan wrote about it in 1965. When abolishing the police is touted as a solution the touters ain't serious. When a black male can boast to his peer group about the amount the number of illegitimate kids he has - what is your solution on fixing that? What do I have to do with the death of George Floyd? I'm not a Minnesota democrat. I don't support the police union. I support tuition vouchers allowing those who want to to be able to escape the hell hole of the inner city school system. Destroying a culture is a lot easier than fixing a culture. Especially, when that culture wants to put the blame on someone else.
I agree, single parents, white or black, naturally have a rougher go. You're splitting hairs, though, focusing on illegitimate kids. I'm talking about the bigger picture as a whole. Again, what you chose to do --if anything is up -- to you.
It's not splitting hairs. Illegitimacy is the problem. It's a problem that no one on the left wants to deal with except for Planned Parenthood. How hard is it to get basically free birth control? White privilege is basically about the advantageous of a society of nuclear families.
I just hear that their life is harder. Sure, if you are a child of a single parent your life is going to be harder. That's true if you are black or white. I'd start with telling anyone who wants a better life for them and their kids is not to have kids until they are married, stay married, get a job and make sure your kids get an education. For some reason, I'm not hearing that coming from anyone on the nightly news of the "mostly peaceful protests". If you bring up the black illegitimacy rate that is per se racist in 2020 just as it was when Moynihan wrote about it in 1965. When abolishing the police is touted as a solution the touters ain't serious. When a black male can boast to his peer group about the amount the number of illegitimate kids he has - what is your solution on fixing that? What do I have to do with the death of George Floyd? I'm not a Minnesota democrat. I don't support the police union. I support tuition vouchers allowing those who want to to be able to escape the hell hole of the inner city school system. Destroying a culture is a lot easier than fixing a culture. Especially, when that culture wants to put the blame on someone else.
I agree, single parents, white or black, naturally have a rougher go. You're splitting hairs, though, focusing on illegitimate kids. I'm talking about the bigger picture as a whole. Again, what you chose to do --if anything is up -- to you.
It's not splitting hairs. Illegitimacy is the problem. It's a problem that no one on the left wants to deal with except for Planned Parenthood. How hard is it to get basically free birth control? White privilege is basically about the advantageous of a society of nuclear families.
Comments
Our kid brought home a math test with 50% and a B
I was at the school in seconds and yes, it was a white woman who told me he did the best he could
Like hell he did - you think he's going to be a cook at McDonalds? We expect more from him and so should you
My education argument gives equal opportunity to all lower middle income families. Obviously the more you make, the less you get. Any subsidies have to be contingent on degrees that offer marketable skills. Using tax payer money for sociology and philosophy degrees are non-starters for me.
Alright, fair enough. But his original post and follow-on post (again, much of which I agree) is loaded with content that we? normally tear up pretty hard in the Tug. I think the veteran HH status helped him today more than you're letting on.
Again, sorry but not sorry. We don't always extend that courtesy in this tavern. That's ok. Leave me to my hurt feelings ese. This is more about my issues.
And you are preaching to the choir. I am close to wrapping up two kids attending fancy schmancy liberal arts colleges in New England. The kind with > $1 billion endowments. Merit scholarships are limited and generally unheard of. Why, with all that money, you ask? Because they want the best and brightest, and they know if you applied and were good enough to get in, you're coming if your parents can pay. They also know that if you applied, good enough to get in and your parents can't pay that you're not coming because you can't pull it out of your ass. They save all that money "competing" for students with merit and give it to the kids who need it.
So, if you make over $X, and I do, you're paying full freight baby - $60K + a year full freight. Ask @DuckHHunterisafag what I'm talking about. He's doing it too.
In some ways, it's better ... there's more money for the kids for whom it's otherwise impossible to finance. But it hits upper middle class people very hard. I've basically got a couple of Ferraris I never got to drive.
The trick to this philanthropy model is to be elite enough that the kids and their families will send them anyway, and why that is would occupy another thread. My kid got into UW Honors college and said no so that I could pay out of my ass somewhere else.
This is also a more broadly complicated issue, because whether we admit it out loud or not, we, in the US, like the freedom to be different and chase the brass ring, whatever that means to us. So if I have to pay out of my ass in taxes to help make all the schools more level, I lose the freedom to send my kids to what I perceive to be a superior place. Is that the answer? Maybe, but there will be resistance.
Btw, I agree with a lot of your post. The kids are home and we had a lot of discussion about this last night. There is something going on with our black community and, while things have ostensibly improved, there are issues that remain to be examined and understood.
The number one rule is that people charge what they do because they can. I'm the numbers guy. I don't price work on what it is fair. I price it based on what I can get away with.
"You're a god damn idiot" hard.
I blame Bumpy Johnson.
Actually I don't - but wood his mistress on the show.
I used to be willing to fight anyone, anywhere. (CSB) I've grown wiser. I don't have the reflexes and fast twitch I used to 30 years ago and am at risk for getting a good ass kicking. Being a message bored TUFF, hiding behind an avatar helps fill the void.
Our education system is broken and Americans are losing good jobs. Tariffs and holding onto steel and coal workers aren't the answer.
I think we can pay for this without raising taxes if by the Dems trading welfare for upfront education funding. Most rational Americans would support eliminating welfare in exchange for better and more affordable education. AOC and Bernie want their cake. My hunch is enough republicans and democrats could come off their hardline positions and get it done.
Mark Furhman didn't plant the glove but he was definitely a racist. I have no doubt he did much of what he said on those tapes. He might be an outlier but there seem to be too many outliers, still today.
I'm not a union guy but unions used to have apprenticeship programs where you got paid while you learned. Unions lost their way too.
The onus should be on the colleges to tamp back tuition by stopping to subsidize it with guaranteed loans. Parents and their kids need to make better choices. If you can get a degree at a local inexpensive college do it. No one gives a fuck in the real world if you can do the job.
I dropped out of college twice and it was cheap then. Wasn't for me. We have trailers full of retards now with construction degrees that don't know which side of a hammer to hold
Get off my lawn