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A simple question

Bendintheriver
Bendintheriver Member Posts: 7,002
edited February 2020 in Tug Tavern
Can someone, anyone, describe a positive that is spewed by the rat candidates for President? One positive comment about our country, the people in it or the opportunity for all. Half of them are multi millionaires and the other half aren't and are still on that stage running for President yet none of them have any hint of a positive message.

In my lifetime, after researching and ghosting speeches for some politicians, working in DC, working on some campaigns, I have never, ever, seen politicians who actually believe that this country is so evil that they can't be seen saying anything positive about it. There is no pride on that stage, only victim-hood and financial envy. I get it, they are dividing the races, convincing people they are victims, and creating economic envy so that they can polarize and get that sides votes. But the damage the are doing is a lasting one and it seems that they sincerely want to fundamentally change the entire history of this country and what has made it great.

There is nothing more difficult to watch than a minority bar tender, who isn't that bright, lecturing all of us about how there is no opportunity when she is a member of congress. Or watching a rebuttal after the State of the Union by a Governor, who is clearly out of touch, talk about minority children filling in pot holes to help the government of all things. But worst of all, it is those running for President and their clear lack of appreciation for what our country has done and can offer.

Can anyone detail some positives or is this just me?

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Comments

  • DerekJohnson
    DerekJohnson Administrator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 68,280 Founders Club

    Can someone, anyone, describe a positive that is spewed by the rat candidates for President? One positive comment about our country, the people in it or the opportunity for all. Half of them are multi millionaires and the other half aren't and are still on that stage running for President yet none of them have any hint of a positive message.

    In my lifetime, after researching and ghosting speeches for some politicians, working in DC, working on some campaigns, I have never, ever, seen politicians who actually believe that this country is so evil that they can't be seen saying anything positive about it. There is no pride on that stage, only victim-hood and financial envy. I get it, they are dividing the races, convincing people they are victims, and creating economic envy so that they can polarize and get that sides votes. But the damage the are doing is a lasting one and it seems that they sincerely want to fundamentally change the entire history of this country and what has made it great.

    There is nothing more difficult to watch than a minority bar tender, who isn't that bright, lecturing all of us about how there is no opportunity when she is a member of congress. Or watching a rebuttal after the State of the Union by a Governor, who is clearly out of touch, talk about minority children filling in pot holes to help the government of all things. But worst of all, it is those running for President and their clear lack of appreciation for what our country has done and can offer.

    Can anyone detail some positives or is this just me?

    I agree with much of what you're saying. But out of curiosity, why did you feel the need to say "minority bartender" instead of just saying "bartender"? It seems to imply her rhetoric would be more palatable had she been a white bartender.
  • 2001400ex
    2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    Do either of you think that's because that's your translation of what your news source provides you? It's like saying Trump only tweets idiotic hateful bullshit. Cause that's what you see in the news. But when you go through his Twitter feed, yes the idiotic hateful bullshit use there but there's also positive messages that he tweets about as well.
  • Southerndawg
    Southerndawg Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 8,346 Founders Club

    Can someone, anyone, describe a positive that is spewed by the rat candidates for President? One positive comment about our country, the people in it or the opportunity for all. Half of them are multi millionaires and the other half aren't and are still on that stage running for President yet none of them have any hint of a positive message.

    In my lifetime, after researching and ghosting speeches for some politicians, working in DC, working on some campaigns, I have never, ever, seen politicians who actually believe that this country is so evil that they can't be seen saying anything positive about it. There is no pride on that stage, only victim-hood and financial envy. I get it, they are dividing the races, convincing people they are victims, and creating economic envy so that they can polarize and get that sides votes. But the damage the are doing is a lasting one and it seems that they sincerely want to fundamentally change the entire history of this country and what has made it great.

    There is nothing more difficult to watch than a minority bar tender, who isn't that bright, lecturing all of us about how there is no opportunity when she is a member of congress. Or watching a rebuttal after the State of the Union by a Governor, who is clearly out of touch, talk about minority children filling in pot holes to help the government of all things. But worst of all, it is those running for President and their clear lack of appreciation for what our country has done and can offer.

    Can anyone detail some positives or is this just me?

    I agree with much of what you're saying. But out of curiosity, why did you feel the need to say "minority bartender" instead of just saying "bartender"? It seems to imply her rhetoric would be more palatable had she been a white bartender.
    Agree with Derek.
  • 2001400ex
    2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457

    Can someone, anyone, describe a positive that is spewed by the rat candidates for President? One positive comment about our country, the people in it or the opportunity for all. Half of them are multi millionaires and the other half aren't and are still on that stage running for President yet none of them have any hint of a positive message.

    In my lifetime, after researching and ghosting speeches for some politicians, working in DC, working on some campaigns, I have never, ever, seen politicians who actually believe that this country is so evil that they can't be seen saying anything positive about it. There is no pride on that stage, only victim-hood and financial envy. I get it, they are dividing the races, convincing people they are victims, and creating economic envy so that they can polarize and get that sides votes. But the damage the are doing is a lasting one and it seems that they sincerely want to fundamentally change the entire history of this country and what has made it great.

    There is nothing more difficult to watch than a minority bar tender, who isn't that bright, lecturing all of us about how there is no opportunity when she is a member of congress. Or watching a rebuttal after the State of the Union by a Governor, who is clearly out of touch, talk about minority children filling in pot holes to help the government of all things. But worst of all, it is those running for President and their clear lack of appreciation for what our country has done and can offer.

    Can anyone detail some positives or is this just me?

    I agree with much of what you're saying. But out of curiosity, why did you feel the need to say "minority bartender" instead of just saying "bartender"? It seems to imply her rhetoric would be more palatable had she been a white bartender.
    Agree with Derek.
    She would not have risen to the position she #Occupies within the party if she was a white bartender.
    She's young, cute, has a loud mouth. I disagree. It's actually the conservative media and Trump that propped her up. Nancy and the team hate her.
  • Bendintheriver
    Bendintheriver Member Posts: 7,002

    Can someone, anyone, describe a positive that is spewed by the rat candidates for President? One positive comment about our country, the people in it or the opportunity for all. Half of them are multi millionaires and the other half aren't and are still on that stage running for President yet none of them have any hint of a positive message.

    In my lifetime, after researching and ghosting speeches for some politicians, working in DC, working on some campaigns, I have never, ever, seen politicians who actually believe that this country is so evil that they can't be seen saying anything positive about it. There is no pride on that stage, only victim-hood and financial envy. I get it, they are dividing the races, convincing people they are victims, and creating economic envy so that they can polarize and get that sides votes. But the damage the are doing is a lasting one and it seems that they sincerely want to fundamentally change the entire history of this country and what has made it great.

    There is nothing more difficult to watch than a minority bar tender, who isn't that bright, lecturing all of us about how there is no opportunity when she is a member of congress. Or watching a rebuttal after the State of the Union by a Governor, who is clearly out of touch, talk about minority children filling in pot holes to help the government of all things. But worst of all, it is those running for President and their clear lack of appreciation for what our country has done and can offer.

    Can anyone detail some positives or is this just me?

    I agree with much of what you're saying. But out of curiosity, why did you feel the need to say "minority bartender" instead of just saying "bartender"? It seems to imply her rhetoric would be more palatable had she been a white bartender.
    Not at all. She supposedly has everything stacked against her as a minority but here she is a Representative to Congress. She is the quintessential example of what is right with this country yet she seems to think that no one else can do what she has done or even has the opportunity to do what she has done. She should be singing the country's praise from the highest steeple yet it is just the opposite.
  • Bendintheriver
    Bendintheriver Member Posts: 7,002

    Can someone, anyone, describe a positive that is spewed by the rat candidates for President? One positive comment about our country, the people in it or the opportunity for all. Half of them are multi millionaires and the other half aren't and are still on that stage running for President yet none of them have any hint of a positive message.

    In my lifetime, after researching and ghosting speeches for some politicians, working in DC, working on some campaigns, I have never, ever, seen politicians who actually believe that this country is so evil that they can't be seen saying anything positive about it. There is no pride on that stage, only victim-hood and financial envy. I get it, they are dividing the races, convincing people they are victims, and creating economic envy so that they can polarize and get that sides votes. But the damage the are doing is a lasting one and it seems that they sincerely want to fundamentally change the entire history of this country and what has made it great.

    There is nothing more difficult to watch than a minority bar tender, who isn't that bright, lecturing all of us about how there is no opportunity when she is a member of congress. Or watching a rebuttal after the State of the Union by a Governor, who is clearly out of touch, talk about minority children filling in pot holes to help the government of all things. But worst of all, it is those running for President and their clear lack of appreciation for what our country has done and can offer.

    Can anyone detail some positives or is this just me?

    I agree with much of what you're saying. But out of curiosity, why did you feel the need to say "minority bartender" instead of just saying "bartender"? It seems to imply her rhetoric would be more palatable had she been a white bartender.
    Agree with Derek.
    She would not have risen to the position she #Occupies within the party if she was a white bartender.
    You are absolutely correct. Neither would BO had he not been black. I know hard core Reps who voted only for him because he was black. They wanted to say they voted for the first black President. His racism was ignored, his total lack of experience. Like many predicted of a Chicago rat being President he was also the most corrupt ever.

    I can name 20 other minorities and some whitey's that are in congress that are only there because of their skin color. It is actually a good thing for the country. As much as a pain in the ass some idiots are that are in Congress, they have the opportunity to be there representing their constituents. You can't say that anywhere else in the world.
  • Pitchfork51
    Pitchfork51 Member Posts: 27,662
    Your bigotry has me shaking and about to vomit
  • 2001400ex
    2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457

    Can someone, anyone, describe a positive that is spewed by the rat candidates for President? One positive comment about our country, the people in it or the opportunity for all. Half of them are multi millionaires and the other half aren't and are still on that stage running for President yet none of them have any hint of a positive message.

    In my lifetime, after researching and ghosting speeches for some politicians, working in DC, working on some campaigns, I have never, ever, seen politicians who actually believe that this country is so evil that they can't be seen saying anything positive about it. There is no pride on that stage, only victim-hood and financial envy. I get it, they are dividing the races, convincing people they are victims, and creating economic envy so that they can polarize and get that sides votes. But the damage the are doing is a lasting one and it seems that they sincerely want to fundamentally change the entire history of this country and what has made it great.

    There is nothing more difficult to watch than a minority bar tender, who isn't that bright, lecturing all of us about how there is no opportunity when she is a member of congress. Or watching a rebuttal after the State of the Union by a Governor, who is clearly out of touch, talk about minority children filling in pot holes to help the government of all things. But worst of all, it is those running for President and their clear lack of appreciation for what our country has done and can offer.

    Can anyone detail some positives or is this just me?

    I agree with much of what you're saying. But out of curiosity, why did you feel the need to say "minority bartender" instead of just saying "bartender"? It seems to imply her rhetoric would be more palatable had she been a white bartender.
    Agree with Derek.
    She would not have risen to the position she #Occupies within the party if she was a white bartender.
    You are absolutely correct. Neither would BO had he not been black. I know hard core Reps who voted only for him because he was black. They wanted to say they voted for the first black President. His racism was ignored, his total lack of experience. Like many predicted of a Chicago rat being President he was also the most corrupt ever.

    I can name 20 other minorities and some whitey's that are in congress that are only there because of their skin color. It is actually a good thing for the country. As much as a pain in the ass some idiots are that are in Congress, they have the opportunity to be there representing their constituents. You can't say that anywhere else in the world.
    China is run by white people now. Chinteresting.
  • Southerndawg
    Southerndawg Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 8,346 Founders Club
    89ute said:

    To say anything positive is pro Trump, that's why. A candidate also cannot point to something that needs to be changed or improved because it already had been.

    There are only two items that need work, healthcare, and infrastructure. You can throw out infrastructure because talking about it leads directly back to the fact the house is sitting on its hands, so the candidate is campaigning against their party. So that leaves healthcare and we know what the Dems solution is to this and it's not a winning one.

    There is nothing a Dem candidate can bring up to try to improve upon. Jobs? Trade? Fighting terror? Border security? Growth?

    So they come up with amorphous bullshit like "unite the country" or "restore dignity to the White House".

    In past elections, there was something that was a glaring weakness. Foreign policy, jobs, interest rates ... those of us who have voted in a handful of elections know. These usual things are gone this time around.

    You just can't beat a guy who is kicking ass everywhere on every front. You just can't.

    All they can do is propose another system which is what they are doing, which is anti-capitalism which is anti-American.

    Impeach the motherfucker !!!11111!!!1111!!!11
  • ThomasFremont
    ThomasFremont Member Posts: 13,325

    Can someone, anyone, describe a positive that is spewed by the rat candidates for President? One positive comment about our country, the people in it or the opportunity for all. Half of them are multi millionaires and the other half aren't and are still on that stage running for President yet none of them have any hint of a positive message.

    In my lifetime, after researching and ghosting speeches for some politicians, working in DC, working on some campaigns, I have never, ever, seen politicians who actually believe that this country is so evil that they can't be seen saying anything positive about it. There is no pride on that stage, only victim-hood and financial envy. I get it, they are dividing the races, convincing people they are victims, and creating economic envy so that they can polarize and get that sides votes. But the damage the are doing is a lasting one and it seems that they sincerely want to fundamentally change the entire history of this country and what has made it great.

    There is nothing more difficult to watch than a minority bar tender, who isn't that bright, lecturing all of us about how there is no opportunity when she is a member of congress. Or watching a rebuttal after the State of the Union by a Governor, who is clearly out of touch, talk about minority children filling in pot holes to help the government of all things. But worst of all, it is those running for President and their clear lack of appreciation for what our country has done and can offer.

    Can anyone detail some positives or is this just me?

    I agree with much of what you're saying. But out of curiosity, why did you feel the need to say "minority bartender" instead of just saying "bartender"? It seems to imply her rhetoric would be more palatable had she been a white bartender.
    Not at all. She supposedly has everything stacked against her as a minority but here she is a Representative to Congress. She is the quintessential example of what is right with this country yet she seems to think that no one else can do what she has done or even has the opportunity to do what she has done. She should be singing the country's praise from the highest steeple yet it is just the opposite.
    Wanting to improve things doesn’t make you unpatriotic. Recognizing problems doesn’t make you unAmerican.

    When you say shit like this, it just adds to the BS you claim to be against.
  • Sledog
    Sledog Member Posts: 37,682 Standard Supporter

    Can someone, anyone, describe a positive that is spewed by the rat candidates for President? One positive comment about our country, the people in it or the opportunity for all. Half of them are multi millionaires and the other half aren't and are still on that stage running for President yet none of them have any hint of a positive message.

    In my lifetime, after researching and ghosting speeches for some politicians, working in DC, working on some campaigns, I have never, ever, seen politicians who actually believe that this country is so evil that they can't be seen saying anything positive about it. There is no pride on that stage, only victim-hood and financial envy. I get it, they are dividing the races, convincing people they are victims, and creating economic envy so that they can polarize and get that sides votes. But the damage the are doing is a lasting one and it seems that they sincerely want to fundamentally change the entire history of this country and what has made it great.

    There is nothing more difficult to watch than a minority bar tender, who isn't that bright, lecturing all of us about how there is no opportunity when she is a member of congress. Or watching a rebuttal after the State of the Union by a Governor, who is clearly out of touch, talk about minority children filling in pot holes to help the government of all things. But worst of all, it is those running for President and their clear lack of appreciation for what our country has done and can offer.

    Can anyone detail some positives or is this just me?

    I agree with much of what you're saying. But out of curiosity, why did you feel the need to say "minority bartender" instead of just saying "bartender"? It seems to imply her rhetoric would be more palatable had she been a white bartender.
    Not at all. She supposedly has everything stacked against her as a minority but here she is a Representative to Congress. She is the quintessential example of what is right with this country yet she seems to think that no one else can do what she has done or even has the opportunity to do what she has done. She should be singing the country's praise from the highest steeple yet it is just the opposite.
    Wanting to improve things doesn’t make you unpatriotic. Recognizing problems doesn’t make you unAmerican.

    When you say shit like this, it just adds to the BS you claim to be against.
    Are you voting for Comrade Bernie, Warren or Buttedeger?
  • WestlinnDuck
    WestlinnDuck Member Posts: 17,543 Standard Supporter
    Depends on what things you want. And what problems you recognize. AOC wants bad things and her recognized problems are my opportunities which makes her a bad person and anti-American. Now here is how a real debate occurs. You now talk about her nude green eel and how patriotic that is. Then you talk about about how my free speech and 2A rights are a problem and how wanting to take them away is patriotic. AOC isn't existing in some theoretical background. She is an elected member of Congress and wants to destroy this country.
  • ThomasFremont
    ThomasFremont Member Posts: 13,325

    Depends on what things you want. And what problems you recognize. AOC wants bad things and her recognized problems are my opportunities which makes her a bad person and anti-American. Now here is how a real debate occurs. You now talk about her nude green eel and how patriotic that is. Then you talk about about how my free speech and 2A rights are a problem and how wanting to take them away is patriotic. AOC isn't existing in some theoretical background. She is an elected member of Congress and wants to destroy this country.

    “Wants to destroy this country”

    An auspicious start to our REAL debate.
  • Bendintheriver
    Bendintheriver Member Posts: 7,002

    Depends on what things you want. And what problems you recognize. AOC wants bad things and her recognized problems are my opportunities which makes her a bad person and anti-American. Now here is how a real debate occurs. You now talk about her nude green eel and how patriotic that is. Then you talk about about how my free speech and 2A rights are a problem and how wanting to take them away is patriotic. AOC isn't existing in some theoretical background. She is an elected member of Congress and wants to destroy this country.

    “Wants to destroy this country”

    An auspicious start to our REAL debate.
    She is an admitted socialist. Why don't you tell us how forcing our country into socialism is anything but destroying it.
  • MikeDamone
    MikeDamone Member Posts: 37,781
    SFGbob said:

    Depends on what things you want. And what problems you recognize. AOC wants bad things and her recognized problems are my opportunities which makes her a bad person and anti-American. Now here is how a real debate occurs. You now talk about her nude green eel and how patriotic that is. Then you talk about about how my free speech and 2A rights are a problem and how wanting to take them away is patriotic. AOC isn't existing in some theoretical background. She is an elected member of Congress and wants to destroy this country.

    “Wants to destroy this country”

    An auspicious start to our REAL debate.
    She definitely wants to destroy the current economic system. You deny this?
    It's moral and ethical for Bezos to turn Amazon into a workers Co-op. If he doesn't do it voluntarily AOC would love to do it for him. Because it's moral and ethical.
  • Gwad
    Gwad Member Posts: 2,855
    ThomasFremont trying to have a legitimate conversation with echos. SAD.
  • SFGbob
    SFGbob Member Posts: 33,183

    Depends on what things you want. And what problems you recognize. AOC wants bad things and her recognized problems are my opportunities which makes her a bad person and anti-American. Now here is how a real debate occurs. You now talk about her nude green eel and how patriotic that is. Then you talk about about how my free speech and 2A rights are a problem and how wanting to take them away is patriotic. AOC isn't existing in some theoretical background. She is an elected member of Congress and wants to destroy this country.

    “Wants to destroy this country”

    An auspicious start to our REAL debate.
    She is an admitted socialist. Why don't you tell us how forcing our country into socialism is anything but destroying it.
    If I tell you that I want to completely restructure our energy, transportation and healthcare systems while raising taxes massively and imposing a wealth tax, allowing for open borders and getting rid of ICE how have I not "destroyed" our country as it currently exists?
  • ThomasFremont
    ThomasFremont Member Posts: 13,325

    Depends on what things you want. And what problems you recognize. AOC wants bad things and her recognized problems are my opportunities which makes her a bad person and anti-American. Now here is how a real debate occurs. You now talk about her nude green eel and how patriotic that is. Then you talk about about how my free speech and 2A rights are a problem and how wanting to take them away is patriotic. AOC isn't existing in some theoretical background. She is an elected member of Congress and wants to destroy this country.

    “Wants to destroy this country”

    An auspicious start to our REAL debate.
    She is an admitted socialist. Why don't you tell us how forcing our country into socialism is anything but destroying it.
    A freshman congresswomen from the minority party is forcing the country into socialism.

    OK!
  • Sledog
    Sledog Member Posts: 37,682 Standard Supporter

    Depends on what things you want. And what problems you recognize. AOC wants bad things and her recognized problems are my opportunities which makes her a bad person and anti-American. Now here is how a real debate occurs. You now talk about her nude green eel and how patriotic that is. Then you talk about about how my free speech and 2A rights are a problem and how wanting to take them away is patriotic. AOC isn't existing in some theoretical background. She is an elected member of Congress and wants to destroy this country.

    “Wants to destroy this country”

    An auspicious start to our REAL debate.
    Destroy. Nothing less.

  • SFGbob
    SFGbob Member Posts: 33,183

    Depends on what things you want. And what problems you recognize. AOC wants bad things and her recognized problems are my opportunities which makes her a bad person and anti-American. Now here is how a real debate occurs. You now talk about her nude green eel and how patriotic that is. Then you talk about about how my free speech and 2A rights are a problem and how wanting to take them away is patriotic. AOC isn't existing in some theoretical background. She is an elected member of Congress and wants to destroy this country.

    “Wants to destroy this country”

    An auspicious start to our REAL debate.
    She is an admitted socialist. Why don't you tell us how forcing our country into socialism is anything but destroying it.
    A freshman congresswomen from the minority party is forcing the country into socialism.

    OK!
    Why don't you tell us why you're such a fucking Kunt Tommy? If you made her Queen she would force the country into socialism. Yes, she doesn't have the power to do that on her own but she certainly wants to.

    Try to pretend that she is an old white guy talking about abortion. Because those guys didn't have the power to get rid of abortion but that didn't stop you from being triggered and making up some bullshit story about them holding a "hearing" to get rid of abortion.
  • ThomasFremont
    ThomasFremont Member Posts: 13,325
    Yeah and I’d fuck Natalie Portman if I could, but that ain’t happening either.

    Hypothetical BS is the name of the game today I see.

    We don’t do that, fellas.
  • creepycoug
    creepycoug Member Posts: 24,017

    Can someone, anyone, describe a positive that is spewed by the rat candidates for President? One positive comment about our country, the people in it or the opportunity for all. Half of them are multi millionaires and the other half aren't and are still on that stage running for President yet none of them have any hint of a positive message.

    In my lifetime, after researching and ghosting speeches for some politicians, working in DC, working on some campaigns, I have never, ever, seen politicians who actually believe that this country is so evil that they can't be seen saying anything positive about it. There is no pride on that stage, only victim-hood and financial envy. I get it, they are dividing the races, convincing people they are victims, and creating economic envy so that they can polarize and get that sides votes. But the damage the are doing is a lasting one and it seems that they sincerely want to fundamentally change the entire history of this country and what has made it great.

    There is nothing more difficult to watch than a minority bar tender, who isn't that bright, lecturing all of us about how there is no opportunity when she is a member of congress. Or watching a rebuttal after the State of the Union by a Governor, who is clearly out of touch, talk about minority children filling in pot holes to help the government of all things. But worst of all, it is those running for President and their clear lack of appreciation for what our country has done and can offer.

    Can anyone detail some positives or is this just me?

    I agree with much of what you're saying. But out of curiosity, why did you feel the need to say "minority bartender" instead of just saying "bartender"? It seems to imply her rhetoric would be more palatable had she been a white bartender.
    Agree with Derek.
    She would not have risen to the position she #Occupies within the party if she was a white bartender.
    You are absolutely correct. Neither would BO had he not been black. I know hard core Reps who voted only for him because he was black. They wanted to say they voted for the first black President. His racism was ignored, his total lack of experience. Like many predicted of a Chicago rat being President he was also the most corrupt ever.

    I can name 20 other minorities and some whitey's that are in congress that are only there because of their skin color. It is actually a good thing for the country. As much as a pain in the ass some idiots are that are in Congress, they have the opportunity to be there representing their constituents. You can't say that anywhere else in the world.
    Fair enough. And there a lot of them who are there for other reasons that similarly have little or nothing to do with merit. Rubio and others like him are there because of their ethnic and racial background insofar as that is relevant to their constituency. Rubio would likely not be a senator if he hailed from Spokane. But he doesn't; he's from a place with a lot of Cubans.

    Then again, as I write that, I'm reminded that my former law school classmate and friend, Raul Labrador, was a Congressman representing his district in Idaho. I don't think the fact that he's Puerto Rican had shit to do with his election ... Raul is a very conservative Mormon married to a white Mormon woman and meets the criteria for election in Idaho.

    In a perverse way, AOC won election to the House on the Trump ticket - the outsider's outsider. She was just supported by a different base with a different agenda.

    I suppose all that is to say that the country is working in the way it was intended.

    As to BO's lack of experience, he's hardly the first, so it shouldn't be held against him any more than it has against others.