“My body, my choice” is the worst phrase a leftist can use considering they don’t apply that logic anywhere else.
It is a terrible argument, unless you assign no moral significance to the fetus. If you don't, then you're damn right that the state should not be involved and it most certainly is a privacy issue.
If you do assign it moral signficance, then if you're at all logically consistent you ought to be in favor of a national ban ... no exceptions ever.
This is not tuff to understand. I don't know why it's confusing to people. It's a straightforward issue if there ever was one.
I’m not confused. My body my choice is inconsistent because those who apply it to abortions ignore it elsewhere. Regardless if they think the fetus has agency. If they do, it’s probably even worse.
Inconsistency with "elsewhere" can be tackled elsewhere.
As it applies to the abortion issue now before us, it is terribly relevant if the fetus has no agency.
It’s irrelevant regardless. As you say, the debate is if the fetus has agency. My body my choice is a cute phrase that leftists seem to not care so much about when it comes to other things.
“My body, my choice” is the worst phrase a leftist can use considering they don’t apply that logic anywhere else.
It is a terrible argument, unless you assign no moral significance to the fetus. If you don't, then you're damn right that the state should not be involved and it most certainly is a privacy issue.
If you do assign it moral signficance, then if you're at all logically consistent you ought to be in favor of a national ban ... no exceptions ever.
This is not tuff to understand. I don't know why it's confusing to people. It's a straightforward issue if there ever was one.
I’m not confused. My body my choice is inconsistent because those who apply it to abortions ignore it elsewhere. Regardless if they think the fetus has agency. If they do, it’s probably even worse.
Inconsistency with "elsewhere" can be tackled elsewhere.
As it applies to the abortion issue now before us, it is terribly relevant if the fetus has no agency.
My body my choice is a cute phrase that leftists seem to not care so much about when it comes to other things.
Setting aside the fact that there are conservative women who are pro-choice, what is an example of one of these "other things"?
“My body, my choice” is the worst phrase a leftist can use considering they don’t apply that logic anywhere else.
So is it wrong because it's inconsistent or is it just objectively wrong?
Get a better argument. It’s inconsistent.
Inconsistent with what?
With other leftists positions where they don’t give a shit about a persons body, choice, or agency.
Right. I got that. I'm asking for an example.
Vaccinations, mandatory government health care, minimum drinking and smoking age, type of food and beverages people are taxed heavily to consume, drug use, means to self defense...
“My body, my choice” is the worst phrase a leftist can use considering they don’t apply that logic anywhere else.
So is it wrong because it's inconsistent or is it just objectively wrong?
Get a better argument. It’s inconsistent.
Inconsistent with what?
With other leftists positions where they don’t give a shit about a persons body, choice, or agency.
Right. I got that. I'm asking for an example.
Vaccinations, mandatory government health care, minimum drinking and smoking age, type of food and beverages people are taxed heavily to consume, drug use, means to self defense...
Thank you. Which of these you listed do you personally disagree with? Or do you disagree with all of them?
“My body, my choice” is the worst phrase a leftist can use considering they don’t apply that logic anywhere else.
So is it wrong because it's inconsistent or is it just objectively wrong?
Get a better argument. It’s inconsistent.
Inconsistent with what?
With other leftists positions where they don’t give a shit about a persons body, choice, or agency.
Right. I got that. I'm asking for an example.
Vaccinations, mandatory government health care, minimum drinking and smoking age, type of food and beverages people are taxed heavily to consume, drug use, means to self defense...
Thank you. Which of these you listed do you personally disagree with? Or do you disagree with all of them?
Not sure. I lean heavily toward liberty and the sovereignty of the individual to have agency over his body. But at the same time I don’t blurt out catch phrases when it suits me and don’t apply the same logic to others.
“My body, my choice” is the worst phrase a leftist can use considering they don’t apply that logic anywhere else.
So is it wrong because it's inconsistent or is it just objectively wrong?
Get a better argument. It’s inconsistent.
Inconsistent with what?
With other leftists positions where they don’t give a shit about a persons body, choice, or agency.
Right. I got that. I'm asking for an example.
Vaccinations, mandatory government health care, minimum drinking and smoking age, type of food and beverages people are taxed heavily to consume, drug use, means to self defense...
Thank you. Which of these you listed do you personally disagree with? Or do you disagree with all of them?
Not sure. I lean heavily toward liberty and the sovereignty of the individual agency over his body. But at the same time I don’t blurt out catch phrases when it suits me and don’t apply the same logic to others.
But you think minimum drinking and smoking ages, or drug use prohibitions, for example, are things we got from left wingers.
“My body, my choice” is the worst phrase a leftist can use considering they don’t apply that logic anywhere else.
So is it wrong because it's inconsistent or is it just objectively wrong?
Get a better argument. It’s inconsistent.
Inconsistent with what?
With other leftists positions where they don’t give a shit about a persons body, choice, or agency.
Right. I got that. I'm asking for an example.
Vaccinations, mandatory government health care, minimum drinking and smoking age, type of food and beverages people are taxed heavily to consume, drug use, means to self defense...
Thank you. Which of these you listed do you personally disagree with? Or do you disagree with all of them?
Not sure. I lean heavily toward liberty and the sovereignty of the individual agency over his body. But at the same time I don’t blurt out catch phrases when it suits me and don’t apply the same logic to others.
But you think minimum drinking and smoking ages, or drug use prohibitions, for example, are things we got from left wingers.
Didn’t say that.
I said people who yell about body/choice for abortion are usually on the side of government force being used in vaccines, smoking, drinking aged, taxing junk food, etc.
“My body, my choice” is the worst phrase a leftist can use considering they don’t apply that logic anywhere else.
So is it wrong because it's inconsistent or is it just objectively wrong?
Get a better argument. It’s inconsistent.
Inconsistent with what?
With other leftists positions where they don’t give a shit about a persons body, choice, or agency.
Right. I got that. I'm asking for an example.
Vaccinations, mandatory government health care, minimum drinking and smoking age, type of food and beverages people are taxed heavily to consume, drug use, means to self defense...
Thank you. Which of these you listed do you personally disagree with? Or do you disagree with all of them?
Not sure. I lean heavily toward liberty and the sovereignty of the individual agency over his body. But at the same time I don’t blurt out catch phrases when it suits me and don’t apply the same logic to others.
But you think minimum drinking and smoking ages, or drug use prohibitions, for example, are things we got from left wingers.
“My body, my choice” is the worst phrase a leftist can use considering they don’t apply that logic anywhere else.
So is it wrong because it's inconsistent or is it just objectively wrong?
Get a better argument. It’s inconsistent.
Inconsistent with what?
With other leftists positions where they don’t give a shit about a persons body, choice, or agency.
Right. I got that. I'm asking for an example.
Vaccinations, mandatory government health care, minimum drinking and smoking age, type of food and beverages people are taxed heavily to consume, drug use, means to self defense...
Thank you. Which of these you listed do you personally disagree with? Or do you disagree with all of them?
Not sure. I lean heavily toward liberty and the sovereignty of the individual agency over his body. But at the same time I don’t blurt out catch phrases when it suits me and don’t apply the same logic to others.
But you think minimum drinking and smoking ages, or drug use prohibitions, for example, are things we got from left wingers.
Didn’t say that.
It was actually the premise you started with.
Didn’t mention where we got any ideas at all.
Premise is my body my choice applies narrowly to leftist.
“My body, my choice” is the worst phrase a leftist can use considering they don’t apply that logic anywhere else.
So is it wrong because it's inconsistent or is it just objectively wrong?
Get a better argument. It’s inconsistent.
Inconsistent with what?
With other leftists positions where they don’t give a shit about a persons body, choice, or agency.
Right. I got that. I'm asking for an example.
Vaccinations, mandatory government health care, minimum drinking and smoking age, type of food and beverages people are taxed heavily to consume, drug use, means to self defense...
That's fair, but I'll just say this: you can be right about one thing even if you are selective about how you appply that reasoning to other things.
In this case, if the woman assigns no moral agency to the fetus, then they are right to say "my body/my choice" because the state is intruding upon her right to manage her physical self as she sees fit. That she forgets that rationale in some other arena doesn't make her wrong, just, as you put it, inconsistent.
Vaccines are tricky though. If the fetus has no moral significance, then the moral equivalent of removing a mole affects no other person.
If an unvaccinated person spreads disease (not offering up an opinion on that; I don't have the background to debate the point), then in theory that person is effectively assaulting other people. Lives are being effected!!! That's a potential distinction from the abortion debate.
Otherwise, yeah, I agree. People are full of shit and hopelessly inconsistent.
“My body, my choice” is the worst phrase a leftist can use considering they don’t apply that logic anywhere else.
So is it wrong because it's inconsistent or is it just objectively wrong?
Get a better argument. It’s inconsistent.
Inconsistent with what?
With other leftists positions where they don’t give a shit about a persons body, choice, or agency.
Right. I got that. I'm asking for an example.
Vaccinations, mandatory government health care, minimum drinking and smoking age, type of food and beverages people are taxed heavily to consume, drug use, means to self defense...
That's fair, but I'll just say this: you can be right about one thing even if you are selective about how you appply that reasoning to other things.
In this case, if the woman assigns no moral agency to the fetus, then they are right to say "my body/my choice" because the state is intruding upon her right to manage her physical self as she sees fit. That she forgets that rationale in some other arena doesn't make her wrong, just, as you put it, inconsistent.
Vaccines are tricky though. If the fetus has no moral significance, then the moral equivalent of removing a mole affects no other person.
If an unvaccinated person spreads disease (not offering up an opinion on that; I don't have the background to debate the point), then in theory that person is effectively assaulting other people. Lives are being effected!!! That's a potential distinction from the abortion debate.
Otherwise, yeah, I agree. People are full of shit and hopelessly inconsistent.
On vaccines, what risks should someone be forced to take in order to protect someone else from harm?
In 18 years when Bama is still kicking our ass in football you'll know why
@CirrhosisDawg is a big fan of state's rights. Pretty sure he is on board with Alabama
It would be funny if after 50 years of scare tactics something happened after all
My advice is for both sides to calm down. Keep it safe and legal in the first trimester. Ease off the after birth abortion agenda.
Every action has a reaction.
My early line has the Surpemes upholding Roe thanks to Kavenaugh. Too bad the democrats want to impeach him
You and I agree a lot Race even though we don't like to admit it in public.
We are what you call "soft" pro-choicers. But no one wants to be reasonable these days.
Also, I cant help buy get my sensibilities offended when the good people of Bammer think and care about the sanctity of life. Their Cadillac had its wheel in the ditch for long time.
“My body, my choice” is the worst phrase a leftist can use considering they don’t apply that logic anywhere else.
So is it wrong because it's inconsistent or is it just objectively wrong?
Get a better argument. It’s inconsistent.
Inconsistent with what?
With other leftists positions where they don’t give a shit about a persons body, choice, or agency.
Right. I got that. I'm asking for an example.
Vaccinations, mandatory government health care, minimum drinking and smoking age, type of food and beverages people are taxed heavily to consume, drug use, means to self defense...
That's fair, but I'll just say this: you can be right about one thing even if you are selective about how you appply that reasoning to other things.
In this case, if the woman assigns no moral agency to the fetus, then they are right to say "my body/my choice" because the state is intruding upon her right to manage her physical self as she sees fit. That she forgets that rationale in some other arena doesn't make her wrong, just, as you put it, inconsistent.
Vaccines are tricky though. If the fetus has no moral significance, then the moral equivalent of removing a mole affects no other person.
If an unvaccinated person spreads disease (not offering up an opinion on that; I don't have the background to debate the point), then in theory that person is effectively assaulting other people. Lives are being effected!!! That's a potential distinction from the abortion debate.
Otherwise, yeah, I agree. People are full of shit and hopelessly inconsistent.
On vaccines, what risks should someone be forced to take in order to protect someone else from harm?
None I suppose. If they are indeed risky and not using them is indeed risky, society has itself a quandary I guess.
We aren't a theocracy so religious interpretations about life need not apply including my own personal thoughts on abortion at any time
In theory we make laws based on logic and science (stop laughing)
I believe the original ruling on first trimester was based on non viability outside the womb. Muslims didn't like that but tough shit. It was a societal compromise to protect the woman from the back alley. It was an acknowledgement that like drugs and booze, abortions were going to happen. They could be regulated or not.
Ever since this has been one of the best fund raising items on both sides. Bama is going to fuck that up by getting SERIOUS about almost eliminating it
We aren't a theocracy so religious interpretations about life need not apply including my own personal thoughts on abortion at any time
In theory we make laws based on logic and science (stop laughing)
I believe the original ruling on first trimester was based on non viability outside the womb. Muslims didn't like that but tough shit. It was a societal compromise to protect the woman from the back alley. It was an acknowledgement that like drugs and booze, abortions were going to happen. They could be regulated or not.
Ever since this has been one of the best fund raising items on both sides. Bama is going to fuck that up by getting SERIOUS about almost eliminating it
The philosophizers take issue with viability because technology moves that line backward all the time, and so the thought is that whether someone is a person or not shouldn't be a function of technology.
I myself don't get too hung up on that and think the first trimester is a good enough line to draw. We draw lines in life all the tim. This is as a good a context to draw one as any.
Comments
I said people who yell about body/choice for abortion are usually on the side of government force being used in vaccines, smoking, drinking aged, taxing junk food, etc.
It’s a bullshit argument.
Premise is my body my choice applies narrowly to leftist.
In this case, if the woman assigns no moral agency to the fetus, then they are right to say "my body/my choice" because the state is intruding upon her right to manage her physical self as she sees fit. That she forgets that rationale in some other arena doesn't make her wrong, just, as you put it, inconsistent.
Vaccines are tricky though. If the fetus has no moral significance, then the moral equivalent of removing a mole affects no other person.
If an unvaccinated person spreads disease (not offering up an opinion on that; I don't have the background to debate the point), then in theory that person is effectively assaulting other people. Lives are being effected!!! That's a potential distinction from the abortion debate.
Otherwise, yeah, I agree. People are full of shit and hopelessly inconsistent.
Alabama's gift to the nearly dead MSM for a certain ratings boost. Thanks Saban.
We are what you call "soft" pro-choicers. But no one wants to be reasonable these days.
Also, I cant help buy get my sensibilities offended when the good people of Bammer think and care about the sanctity of life. Their Cadillac had its wheel in the ditch for long time.
In theory we make laws based on logic and science (stop laughing)
I believe the original ruling on first trimester was based on non viability outside the womb. Muslims didn't like that but tough shit. It was a societal compromise to protect the woman from the back alley. It was an acknowledgement that like drugs and booze, abortions were going to happen. They could be regulated or not.
Ever since this has been one of the best fund raising items on both sides. Bama is going to fuck that up by getting SERIOUS about almost eliminating it
I myself don't get too hung up on that and think the first trimester is a good enough line to draw. We draw lines in life all the tim. This is as a good a context to draw one as any.