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The "system" that is making the poor, poorer in America
Comments
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Great, so can you concede that the "system" doesn't make poor people poorer and nobody is getting rich in this country stealing poor people's money?allpurpleallgold said:Wild guess, that 60k number includes debt.
Thank you to all the conservatives making a great case for welfare. Poor people don’t have it that bad in America because welfare lifts them out of poverty. Great point. Let’s make sure all poor people have access to it. -
You get that all that information came from Bob’s original link, yes? All I did was summarize it for you.2001400ex said:
That is worthwhile discussion. You are much better about this than Bob. I'll look through this link later this evening. I browsed it but don't have time to roll through it.USMChawk said:
Yet that number was reported by the poor themselves.2001400ex said:
Ah this one. Yes I mean to get back to this.SFGbob said:
See you can provide a link. It's an opinion article in the politics section. That being said. I still disagree that the average person making $25k spends $60k. That's not even close to reality. They spend more than they make, but no way it's $60k.
The fact is, when the very same households that the federal government considers to be poor are questioned, they report roughly $2.40 in spending for every $1 of income that Census says they have. So that family of four earning $25,000 is likely consuming as much as $60,000 a year in goods and services.
If you click on the source material for that article (linked below) you’ll see a great analysis of how the poverty line is determined by income level, only, and does not account for the increased welfare benefits. That is the entire argument about an income level based poverty line vs a consumption based poverty line. The latter accounts for the social benefits they receive as is a truer indicator of their overall situation.
https://www.aei.org/publication/annual-report-on-us-consumption-poverty-2017/ -
So it’s ok to lift someone from $25k/year to $60k/year (consumption equivalent)? What about all the families making $26-$59k/year who don’t qualify for aid? Seems like they have incentive to cut back their hours and jump ahead on the tax payer dime.allpurpleallgold said:Wild guess, that 60k number includes debt.
Thank you to all the conservatives making a great case for welfare. Poor people don’t have it that bad in America because welfare lifts them out of poverty. Great point. Let’s make sure all poor people have access to it. -
I do realize that. You actually put the link there while Bob just flails around.USMChawk said:
You get that all that information came from Bob’s original link, yes? All I did was summarize it for you.2001400ex said:
That is worthwhile discussion. You are much better about this than Bob. I'll look through this link later this evening. I browsed it but don't have time to roll through it.USMChawk said:
Yet that number was reported by the poor themselves.2001400ex said:
Ah this one. Yes I mean to get back to this.SFGbob said:
See you can provide a link. It's an opinion article in the politics section. That being said. I still disagree that the average person making $25k spends $60k. That's not even close to reality. They spend more than they make, but no way it's $60k.
The fact is, when the very same households that the federal government considers to be poor are questioned, they report roughly $2.40 in spending for every $1 of income that Census says they have. So that family of four earning $25,000 is likely consuming as much as $60,000 a year in goods and services.
If you click on the source material for that article (linked below) you’ll see a great analysis of how the poverty line is determined by income level, only, and does not account for the increased welfare benefits. That is the entire argument about an income level based poverty line vs a consumption based poverty line. The latter accounts for the social benefits they receive as is a truer indicator of their overall situation.
https://www.aei.org/publication/annual-report-on-us-consumption-poverty-2017/ -
Ok, let’s try this again. You get that all that information came from Bob’s original link?2001400ex said:
I do realize that. You actually put the link there while Bob just flails around.USMChawk said:
You get that all that information came from Bob’s original link, yes? All I did was summarize it for you.2001400ex said:
That is worthwhile discussion. You are much better about this than Bob. I'll look through this link later this evening. I browsed it but don't have time to roll through it.USMChawk said:
Yet that number was reported by the poor themselves.2001400ex said:
Ah this one. Yes I mean to get back to this.SFGbob said:
See you can provide a link. It's an opinion article in the politics section. That being said. I still disagree that the average person making $25k spends $60k. That's not even close to reality. They spend more than they make, but no way it's $60k.
The fact is, when the very same households that the federal government considers to be poor are questioned, they report roughly $2.40 in spending for every $1 of income that Census says they have. So that family of four earning $25,000 is likely consuming as much as $60,000 a year in goods and services.
If you click on the source material for that article (linked below) you’ll see a great analysis of how the poverty line is determined by income level, only, and does not account for the increased welfare benefits. That is the entire argument about an income level based poverty line vs a consumption based poverty line. The latter accounts for the social benefits they receive as is a truer indicator of their overall situation.
https://www.aei.org/publication/annual-report-on-us-consumption-poverty-2017/ -
Poorest I've ever been was making about $40k a year out of college and single. I lived in a neighborhood where working the system was the norm and it was eye opening to a lot of issues to say the least.USMChawk said:
So it’s ok to lift someone from $25k/year to $60k/year (consumption equivalent)? What about all the families making $26-$59k/year who don’t qualify for aid? Seems like they have incentive to cut back their hours and jump ahead on the tax payer dime.allpurpleallgold said:Wild guess, that 60k number includes debt.
Thank you to all the conservatives making a great case for welfare. Poor people don’t have it that bad in America because welfare lifts them out of poverty. Great point. Let’s make sure all poor people have access to it.
Just one common example. There are plenty of others.
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You summarized the information that Hondo was too busy to read but which he already knew was wrong.USMChawk said:
You get that all that information came from Bob’s original link, yes? All I did was summarize it for you.2001400ex said:
That is worthwhile discussion. You are much better about this than Bob. I'll look through this link later this evening. I browsed it but don't have time to roll through it.USMChawk said:
Yet that number was reported by the poor themselves.2001400ex said:
Ah this one. Yes I mean to get back to this.SFGbob said:
See you can provide a link. It's an opinion article in the politics section. That being said. I still disagree that the average person making $25k spends $60k. That's not even close to reality. They spend more than they make, but no way it's $60k.
The fact is, when the very same households that the federal government considers to be poor are questioned, they report roughly $2.40 in spending for every $1 of income that Census says they have. So that family of four earning $25,000 is likely consuming as much as $60,000 a year in goods and services.
If you click on the source material for that article (linked below) you’ll see a great analysis of how the poverty line is determined by income level, only, and does not account for the increased welfare benefits. That is the entire argument about an income level based poverty line vs a consumption based poverty line. The latter accounts for the social benefits they receive as is a truer indicator of their overall situation.
https://www.aei.org/publication/annual-report-on-us-consumption-poverty-2017/ -
Weird how Hondo doesn't have time to read a link that was given to him yesterday but here is today posting again in other threads. Gosh Hondo if I didn't know any better I'd say you never had any real interest in the source of my numbers and that this entire little charade of yours where you demand a link was just you being a worthless Kunt.
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That many burgers on the grill?USMChawk said:
You get that all that information came from Bob’s original link, yes? All I did was summarize it for you.2001400ex said:
That is worthwhile discussion. You are much better about this than Bob. I'll look through this link later this evening. I browsed it but don't have time to roll through it.USMChawk said:
Yet that number was reported by the poor themselves.2001400ex said:
Ah this one. Yes I mean to get back to this.SFGbob said:
See you can provide a link. It's an opinion article in the politics section. That being said. I still disagree that the average person making $25k spends $60k. That's not even close to reality. They spend more than they make, but no way it's $60k.
The fact is, when the very same households that the federal government considers to be poor are questioned, they report roughly $2.40 in spending for every $1 of income that Census says they have. So that family of four earning $25,000 is likely consuming as much as $60,000 a year in goods and services.
If you click on the source material for that article (linked below) you’ll see a great analysis of how the poverty line is determined by income level, only, and does not account for the increased welfare benefits. That is the entire argument about an income level based poverty line vs a consumption based poverty line. The latter accounts for the social benefits they receive as is a truer indicator of their overall situation.
https://www.aei.org/publication/annual-report-on-us-consumption-poverty-2017/ -
Ok finally getting back to this discussion and I read through the links again. I do agree with the chart here. Again, I think a person making $25k living off $60k is exaggerated, yes some might be but not the average as purported in the article that Bob posted.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Poorest I've ever been was making about $40k a year out of college and single. I lived in a neighborhood where working the system was the norm and it was eye opening to a lot of issues to say the least.USMChawk said:
So it’s ok to lift someone from $25k/year to $60k/year (consumption equivalent)? What about all the families making $26-$59k/year who don’t qualify for aid? Seems like they have incentive to cut back their hours and jump ahead on the tax payer dime.allpurpleallgold said:Wild guess, that 60k number includes debt.
Thank you to all the conservatives making a great case for welfare. Poor people don’t have it that bad in America because welfare lifts them out of poverty. Great point. Let’s make sure all poor people have access to it.
Just one common example. There are plenty of others.
This chart actually explains what I'm getting at. The system is designed to discourage making more money if you are under a certain income level. Because it takes a big increase to make up the difference. What is the result? A system where the poor are encouraged to stay poor. You can argue the definition of poor as others here have. Yes most "poor" people have a TV, cell phone, electricity, etc. But they also aren't building any wealth and don't really have availability to build wealth.
BTW, I'm not saying this is a liberal or conservative issue. Policies from both parties have contributed to this system.
