If you supported Trump's wall as we like to call it and I said that you can't because you're Mexican that's racist. If I say you can't because we can't afford it or the other reasons people give me as a white man it isn't racist
Anything judged on the basis of race is racist.
If you said it because you thought it as against my interests as a Mexican, no, not racist.
If you said it because you mean to limit what I think and do because I'm somehow less important than other people who are smart enough to be free to think as they like, then sure, that's racist.
The latter is pretty uncommon if we're being honest. The tone of Uncle Tom, usually, is "Fuck dude. You're really on the wrong team." And, the actual Uncle Toms, from which the term is derived, were on the wrong fucking team.
Today, that term has lost its meaning a bit. So, today, telling a black guy he shouldn't be conservative is of course very different than telling a house slave that he shouldn't side with the plantation boss.
But though it has lost the purity of application from the time of its origin, it is hardly racist.
It may not be good, but it's not racist.
If you actually read the book, Uncle Tom DIDN'T do what the massa said and that's what got him killed. He was almost Christ-like.
OK -I kinda lied - I didn't read the book but vividly remember the Classics Illustrated comic version from when I was a kid.
The characterization has been severely morphed over the years.
I like you better when you stick to debauchery. That's your sweet spot (not like that).
Not my fault I'm well educated, have a big throbber and like porn.
But you do see the point, right?
Tom got whacked for refusing to beat the other slaves and didn't rat out the ones who escaped.
I think this discussion really highlights the problem of the double-standards that are propagating like rabbits in our society today. I'm supposed to treat non-whites like I would whites, and I think I do that pretty well, because I'm normally not associating with anyone because of their immutable characteristics, but because of common interests. I think that's true of most people, btw.
But the partisans in the Left send the message that the world is very different if you're black, minority, women, etc., etc., implying skin color or gender as a causative factor in everything, when it clearly isn't. When a kid misbehaves, is it BECAUSE of his skin color? Or does that not have Jack shit to do with it? I believe the latter. Conversely, many libs, black & white, will jump forward with excuses any time some black kid beats somebody or steals their shit with something along the lines of "society has failed that kid" or "it's harder being black" or "blacks are poor, and poor people have to steal to survive" etc. Yes, people actually still say that shit, even about delinquents living in half million dollar houses around town. I actually believe these double-standards liberals commonly embrace enhance stereotyping and harm race relations, relations between the sexes, etc. What I'm hearing a lot of times is "they can't help it, because they're black/women/minorities," etc. And what the FUCK message is that sending? That some groups are doomed by their gender, race, or any other immutable characteristic? Jesus Christ! That's about as racist, sexist and xenophobic as can be, and liberals do it all the fucking time. Proudly.
The bottom line is what I've laid it out to be. Just because a liberal white person takes a black person to task for (1) their political ideology or (2) their performance does not make them racist.
The strawman's asshole just got fucked. I didn't say that a white liberal simply taking a black person to task for the political ideology made them a racist. For such a well educated guy you sure love to fuck a lot of strawman ass.
What I said was calling someone an "Uncle Tom" or an "Oreo" or a "sell-out" because you disagree with their politics and because you don't think blacks should hold certain political views lest they render themselves "inauthentic" and not "real" black people makes you a racist.
And your claim about people calling Conservative blacks "Uncle Tom" as a way to just say they aren't on my team would be fucking laughable if the statement hadn't been made by such a smart and well educated person such as yourself.
Creep we said the same thing on the wall believe it or not. Almost. The argument against the wall has nothing to do with person making or receiving the argument.
A Mexican American is not hurt by the wall because he is MA. But he can have many arguments against it which we all have heard
Saying you need to be against it because you are MA is racist
And why did the liberal Americans, we'll leave the Palis out of this, feel they could be so blatantly racist to Condi? Because of her political views not matching the preconceived notion of how Blacks should think or act
Same answer.
Politics are dirty; nobody is clean here.
But if the idea is rooted in, "great, you're with them," I might call it short-sighted, but I wouldn't call it racist.
If, on the other hand, I meant in the sense that she isn't smart enough to think for herself, which no clear thinking person would ever say about Condi, then yes, racism.
I don't think most people who took her to task were being racist. They were being political. Those are not the same.
Let's put it this way: Bob's intentional use of stereotypical terminology and assumption of the worst from every conceivable angle in the Trayvon Martin thread is a helluva lot more racist than me taking Thomas to task having his heart broken at being rejected by the establishment.
I'm sorry man. My feet are taped to the pedals on this one.
It's very hard (hard) for people on the right to be so touchy about the 'racism' label and then call liberals racist for criticizing team choice by a black or brown person. Not saying the latter is right; don't twist. Just not necessarily, or even usually, racist.
Showing Condi with big lips etc is no different from call Blacks monkeys. It's not political it's racist
The tone of Uncle Tom, usually, is "Fuck dude. You're really on the wrong team."
What a load of horseshit. The mere fact that someone thinks that there is only one "team" that blacks should be on shows how fucking stupid your interpretation of the word is. Uncle Tom, the way it is used today is intended to be an insult letting that person know that they think and or believe and or act in ways that the other person doesn't think blacks should.
Uncle Tom, sell-out, and Oreo are all used to shame the Conservative black person and let them know they are thinking and or behaving in ways that other liberals don't think they should be.
I really need a beer right now. And after that, some BBQ. From a black owned and operated BBQ joint. Because everyone knows black BBQ>>all other BBQ imposters - in the NW, at least.
I guess I'm racist about my BBQ. But I'm sure @purplethrobber would agree, "It's Goddamn Delicious!"
Seriously, how is calling someone an "Uncle Tom" or an "Oreo" or a "sell-out" any different than calling some white person a "wigger" or a "n***er lover?"
I really need a beer right now. And after that, some BBQ. From a black owned and operated BBQ joint. Because everyone knows black BBQ>>all other BBQ imposters - in the NW, at least.
I guess I'm racist about my BBQ. But I'm sure @purplethrobber would agree, "It's Goddamn Delicious!"
I judge my BBQ not by the color of the skin of the pitmaster but by the goddamned delicious stain it leaves on my soul.
If you supported Trump's wall as we like to call it and I said that you can't because you're Mexican that's racist. If I say you can't because we can't afford it or the other reasons people give me as a white man it isn't racist
Anything judged on the basis of race is racist.
If you said it because you thought it as against my interests as a Mexican, no, not racist.
If you said it because you mean to limit what I think and do because I'm somehow less important than other people who are smart enough to be free to think as they like, then sure, that's racist.
The latter is pretty uncommon if we're being honest. The tone of Uncle Tom, usually, is "Fuck dude. You're really on the wrong team." And, the actual Uncle Toms, from which the term is derived, were on the wrong fucking team.
Today, that term has lost its meaning a bit. So, today, telling a black guy he shouldn't be conservative is of course very different than telling a house slave that he shouldn't side with the plantation boss.
But though it has lost the purity of application from the time of its origin, it is hardly racist.
It may not be good, but it's not racist.
If you actually read the book, Uncle Tom DIDN'T do what the massa said and that's what got him killed. He was almost Christ-like.
OK -I kinda lied - I didn't read the book but vividly remember the Classics Illustrated comic version from when I was a kid.
The characterization has been severely morphed over the years.
I like you better when you stick to debauchery. That's your sweet spot (not like that).
Not my fault I'm well educated, have a big throbber and like porn.
But you do see the point, right?
Tom got whacked for refusing to beat the other slaves and didn't rat out the ones who escaped.
But he was also taken to task for being a company man and that's the point of the term.
It may have been adulterated a lot since then. I, too, have not read the book. But I know what people generally mean with they use the term.
I think this discussion really highlights the problem of the double-standards that are propagating like rabbits in our society today. I'm supposed to treat non-whites like I would whites, and I think I do that pretty well, because I'm normally not associating with anyone because of their immutable characteristics, but because of common interests. I think that's true of most people, btw.
But the partisans in the Left send the message that the world is very different if you're black, minority, women, etc., etc., implying skin color or gender as a causative factor in everything, when it clearly isn't. When a kid misbehaves, is it BECAUSE of his skin color? Or does that not have Jack shit to do with it? I believe the latter. Conversely, many libs, black & white, will jump forward with excuses any time some black kid beats somebody or steals their shit with something along the lines of "society has failed that kid" or "it's harder being black" or "blacks are poor, and poor people have to steal to survive" etc. Yes, people actually still say that shit, even about delinquents living in half million dollar houses around town. I actually believe these double-standards liberals commonly embrace enhance stereotyping and harm race relations, relations between the sexes, etc. What I'm hearing a lot of times is "they can't help it, because they're black/women/minorities," etc. And what the FUCK message is that sending? That some groups are doomed by their gender, race, or any other immutable characteristic? Jesus Christ! That's about as racist, sexist and xenophobic as can be, and liberals do it all the fucking time. Proudly.
Generally agree with all that. My point is that, using those terms in political gamesmanship is not being a racists, at least not in the traditional use of the term.
If we want to expand the term, I'm all ears.
I also agree that there is an intended or unintended consequence of it's 'harder being black' that leads to more stereotyping, or at least reinforces it. I don't dispute that, and in fact, agree with it wholeheartedly.
If you supported Trump's wall as we like to call it and I said that you can't because you're Mexican that's racist. If I say you can't because we can't afford it or the other reasons people give me as a white man it isn't racist
Anything judged on the basis of race is racist.
If you said it because you thought it as against my interests as a Mexican, no, not racist.
If you said it because you mean to limit what I think and do because I'm somehow less important than other people who are smart enough to be free to think as they like, then sure, that's racist.
The latter is pretty uncommon if we're being honest. The tone of Uncle Tom, usually, is "Fuck dude. You're really on the wrong team." And, the actual Uncle Toms, from which the term is derived, were on the wrong fucking team.
Today, that term has lost its meaning a bit. So, today, telling a black guy he shouldn't be conservative is of course very different than telling a house slave that he shouldn't side with the plantation boss.
But though it has lost the purity of application from the time of its origin, it is hardly racist.
It may not be good, but it's not racist.
If you actually read the book, Uncle Tom DIDN'T do what the massa said and that's what got him killed. He was almost Christ-like.
OK -I kinda lied - I didn't read the book but vividly remember the Classics Illustrated comic version from when I was a kid.
The characterization has been severely morphed over the years.
I like you better when you stick to debauchery. That's your sweet spot (not like that).
Not my fault I'm well educated, have a big throbber and like porn.
But you do see the point, right?
Tom got whacked for refusing to beat the other slaves and didn't rat out the ones who escaped.
But he was also taken to task for being a company man and that's the point of the term.
It may have been adulterated a lot since then. I, too, have not read the book. But I know what people generally mean with they use the term.
Not how the book was written. Go do the research. Tom was a good cat in the book. Whitey made Tom a bad guy over the years. Well, whitey in black face.
But the bruthas should be praising allah that Tom was the central character to a very important piece of literature relative to Lincoln's ascension to power.
For your benefit, I wrote at least 3x that whether you, or I or Jesus Christ agrees with the sentiment is not the point.
But, of course, that flew over your head because you're a dumb fuck.
Your problem is that I am reading what you say. I'm not saying that you think blacks should be on a certain "team" but you are running cover for people who do use the term "Uncle Tom" by claiming they are just saying, "hey you're on the wrong team." The mere fact that anyone thinks that blacks should be on a certain team, reveals how stupid your excusing the use of the term really is.
But since you do believe that it's an innocuous term and that it simply means, "hey, you're on the wrong team" what "team" do you think blacks should be on? Since you claim to be able to speak for all people who use that term and know what they are really thinking and mean when they use the term, I figured you'd be able to give me some insight into what "team" they believe blacks should be on.
The left calling out a conservative black for being conservative is not racism,
Great because I never said it was.
They are saying "you are on the wrong team." Right or wrong, that's what's being said.
I wasn't aware that you speak for all blacks and all people who call Thomas or other conservative blacks an "Uncle Tom" and sellouts. Must be on account of that superior education that you're able to speak for everyone who uses that term an know what they really are saying. What a gift.
So when a white liberal calls a conservative black an Oreo or an Uncle Tom, they are just saying "hey, you're on the wrong team."
What was my stereotypical characterization of Trayvon?
I'm saying one thing despite your desperation to muddy the waters.
Going Hondo I see.
You could have just said, "I lose."
I'm not revisiting Trayvon. The whole board saw what you were up to in that thread.
Are you saying that liberal people cannot criticize black people?
Why not? Or is it black conservatives that enjoy special protection in your world?
I laid this out for you as clear as glass. If you can't do better than this, you might as well just call it a day. This is honestly some of your worst work.
And I'm going Hondo? Who do you pretend the strawman is while you're fucking it in the ass Coug? I never claimed or intimated either of those things.
And I'm still waiting those stereotypical characterizations of Trayvon.
I believe you've confused being a pompous blowhard with intelligence somewhere along the line Coug.
The bottom line is what I've laid it out to be. Just because a liberal white person takes a black person to task for (1) their political ideology or (2) their performance does not make them racist.
The strawman's asshole just got fucked. I didn't say that a white liberal simply taking a black person to task for the political ideology made them a racist. For such a well educated guy you sure love to fuck a lot of strawman ass.
What I said was calling someone an "Uncle Tom" or an "Oreo" or a "sell-out" because you disagree with their politics and because you don't think blacks should hold certain political views lest they render themselves "inauthentic" and not "real" black people makes you a racist.
And your claim about people calling Conservative blacks "Uncle Tom" as a way to just say they aren't on my team would be fucking laughable if the statement hadn't been made by such a smart and well educated person such as yourself.
Which one of us wrote this?
Thomas is plenty bright enough. Read his opinions. That's a knock the left hit with and it became a lazy way for people to criticize him. It's also a fairly thinly veiled way for liberals to express their racism for Conservative blacks.
Translation from Bodbleed: When someone of a liberal persuasion says Thomas isn't bright, it's racism. Why? Because any time a liberal finds fault with a black conservative it's racism.
Your thought process asshole, not mine. There is literally no way for you to have this both ways.
The guy who screams "don't call me racist" takes a 180 degree different tack when a black guy who meets with his approval is criticized for performance or politics.
You don't have to like it and I don't have to like it. One person can question another person's allegiances on grounds that implicate race and it does not follow that the person doing the questioning is a racist. They may be. But it doesn't follow that they are. And for a guy who is as touchy about that word as you are, you ought to be able to grasp this.
Webster (since you like the textualists):
racism noun rac·ism | \ ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi- \ Definition of racism 1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race 2a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles b : a political or social system founded on racism 3 : racial prejudice or discrimination
If Team A believes that Team B doesn't represent Bob's interests, and Team A tells Bob he's a fool for aligning himself with Team B, it does not mean that Team A believes that Bob is genetically inferior to the members of Team A. Team A is telling Bob he's making a mistake. If the history of people like Bob is pretty severe and loaded, it might be more personal than that, but that's what it's about. Teams. Politics. Power. Whatever.
For your benefit, I wrote at least 3x that whether you, or I or Jesus Christ agrees with the sentiment is not the point.
But, of course, that flew over your head because you're a dumb fuck.
Your problem is that I am reading what you say. I'm not saying that you think blacks should be on a certain "team" but you are running cover for people who do use the term "Uncle Tom" by claiming they are just saying, "hey you're on the wrong team." The mere fact that anyone thinks that blacks should be on a certain team, reveals how stupid your excusing the use of the term really is.
But since you do believe that it's an innocuous term and that it simply means, "hey, you're on the wrong team" what "team" do you think blacks should be on? Since you claim to be able to speak for all people who use that term and know what they are really thinking and mean when they use the term, I figured you'd be able to give me some insight into what "team" they believe blacks should be on.
Happy to use another word, if Uncle Tom is racists in and of itself.
The point stands: a liberal calling a black person's politics into question because he or she, rightly or wrongly, think that those politics are not in the best interest of black people, is not a racist.
They are a critic.
Can liberals, white or black, not criticize black people? Or just not their politics? How about their performance on the SCOTUS?
You see, Bob, your problem is that I am reading what you actually write. You said critiques of Thomas on the SCOTUS is thinly veiled liberal racism. It's right there in the post. Go read it.
Comments
But you do see the point, right?
Tom got whacked for refusing to beat the other slaves and didn't rat out the ones who escaped.
But the partisans in the Left send the message that the world is very different if you're black, minority, women, etc., etc., implying skin color or gender as a causative factor in everything, when it clearly isn't. When a kid misbehaves, is it BECAUSE of his skin color? Or does that not have Jack shit to do with it? I believe the latter. Conversely, many libs, black & white, will jump forward with excuses any time some black kid beats somebody or steals their shit with something along the lines of "society has failed that kid" or "it's harder being black" or "blacks are poor, and poor people have to steal to survive" etc. Yes, people actually still say that shit, even about delinquents living in half million dollar houses around town. I actually believe these double-standards liberals commonly embrace enhance stereotyping and harm race relations, relations between the sexes, etc. What I'm hearing a lot of times is "they can't help it, because they're black/women/minorities," etc. And what the FUCK message is that sending? That some groups are doomed by their gender, race, or any other immutable characteristic? Jesus Christ! That's about as racist, sexist and xenophobic as can be, and liberals do it all the fucking time. Proudly.
The strawman's asshole just got fucked. I didn't say that a white liberal simply taking a black person to task for the political ideology made them a racist. For such a well educated guy you sure love to fuck a lot of strawman ass.
What I said was calling someone an "Uncle Tom" or an "Oreo" or a "sell-out" because you disagree with their politics and because you don't think blacks should hold certain political views lest they render themselves "inauthentic" and not "real" black people makes you a racist.
And your claim about people calling Conservative blacks "Uncle Tom" as a way to just say they aren't on my team would be fucking laughable if the statement hadn't been made by such a smart and well educated person such as yourself.
A Mexican American is not hurt by the wall because he is MA. But he can have many arguments against it which we all have heard
Saying you need to be against it because you are MA is racist
And I'm not moving from that
Oliphant is an American liberal icon
And a piece of shit racist. Call it what it is
What a load of horseshit. The mere fact that someone thinks that there is only one "team" that blacks should be on shows how fucking stupid your interpretation of the word is. Uncle Tom, the way it is used today is intended to be an insult letting that person know that they think and or believe and or act in ways that the other person doesn't think blacks should.
Uncle Tom, sell-out, and Oreo are all used to shame the Conservative black person and let them know they are thinking and or behaving in ways that other liberals don't think they should be.
I guess I'm racist about my BBQ. But I'm sure @purplethrobber would agree, "It's Goddamn Delicious!"
It may have been adulterated a lot since then. I, too, have not read the book. But I know what people generally mean with they use the term.
Or can't read.
For your benefit, I wrote at least 3x that whether you, or I or Jesus Christ agrees with the sentiment is not the point.
But, of course, that flew over your head because you're a dumb fuck.
If we want to expand the term, I'm all ears.
I also agree that there is an intended or unintended consequence of it's 'harder being black' that leads to more stereotyping, or at least reinforces it. I don't dispute that, and in fact, agree with it wholeheartedly.
But the bruthas should be praising allah that Tom was the central character to a very important piece of literature relative to Lincoln's ascension to power.
The more you fucking know.
But since you do believe that it's an innocuous term and that it simply means, "hey, you're on the wrong team" what "team" do you think blacks should be on? Since you claim to be able to speak for all people who use that term and know what they are really thinking and mean when they use the term, I figured you'd be able to give me some insight into what "team" they believe blacks should be on.
And I'm still waiting those stereotypical characterizations of Trayvon.
I believe you've confused being a pompous blowhard with intelligence somewhere along the line Coug.
Thomas is plenty bright enough. Read his opinions. That's a knock the left hit with and it became a lazy way for people to criticize him. It's also a fairly thinly veiled way for liberals to express their racism for Conservative blacks.
Translation from Bodbleed: When someone of a liberal persuasion says Thomas isn't bright, it's racism. Why? Because any time a liberal finds fault with a black conservative it's racism.
Your thought process asshole, not mine. There is literally no way for you to have this both ways.
The guy who screams "don't call me racist" takes a 180 degree different tack when a black guy who meets with his approval is criticized for performance or politics.
You don't have to like it and I don't have to like it. One person can question another person's allegiances on grounds that implicate race and it does not follow that the person doing the questioning is a racist. They may be. But it doesn't follow that they are. And for a guy who is as touchy about that word as you are, you ought to be able to grasp this.
Webster (since you like the textualists):
racism noun
rac·ism | \ ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi- \
Definition of racism
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
b : a political or social system founded on racism
3 : racial prejudice or discrimination
If Team A believes that Team B doesn't represent Bob's interests, and Team A tells Bob he's a fool for aligning himself with Team B, it does not mean that Team A believes that Bob is genetically inferior to the members of Team A. Team A is telling Bob he's making a mistake. If the history of people like Bob is pretty severe and loaded, it might be more personal than that, but that's what it's about. Teams. Politics. Power. Whatever.
What it ain't is racism.
The point stands: a liberal calling a black person's politics into question because he or she, rightly or wrongly, think that those politics are not in the best interest of black people, is not a racist.
They are a critic.
Can liberals, white or black, not criticize black people? Or just not their politics? How about their performance on the SCOTUS?
You see, Bob, your problem is that I am reading what you actually write. You said critiques of Thomas on the SCOTUS is thinly veiled liberal racism. It's right there in the post. Go read it.