Collins and Manchin plan to vote YES
Comments
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It's kind of like just putting the tip in.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Proscribing political thought upon a member of a racial group based on said race feels a little racist to me.creepycoug said:Thank you.
But, but, but, but LIBERAL RAYSISM!
Fuck, from the show that has brought you "when they don't know what else to say, they cry racism" bitching, moaning, whining and bitching ad nauseam since forever.
It's not racism. It's Uncle Tom'ism, which is different than racism. Racism is the belief that members of a particular race should be viewed and treated as inferior, less capable and at its extreme less morally significant than human beings of a preferred race. Generally concomitant views are that they therefore be subjugated to other, presumed superior, races in a given society and be afforded fewer rights and occupy less significant roles in life.
Uncle Tom posturing is different. It's the assertion that members of that subjugated race not align themselves with their oppressors and ought to sack up and stand firm with their more courageous counterparts who oppose their oppressors.
When the left calls out a conservative black for being conservative, they are doing the latter. Right or wrong, that's what that is.
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I agree with that. Calling someone a "sell out" or an "Uncle Tom" means that you believe there is an acceptable range of political thought that black people can operate in and if they step outside that range they are fair game and can be attacked by the left. They are "inferior" blacks in the mind of many liberals and thus not "real" or authentic.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Proscribing political thought upon a member of a racial group based on said race feels a little racist to me.creepycoug said:Thank you.
But, but, but, but LIBERAL RAYSISM!
Fuck, from the show that has brought you "when they don't know what else to say, they cry racism" bitching, moaning, whining and bitching ad nauseam since forever.
It's not racism. It's Uncle Tom'ism, which is different than racism. Racism is the belief that members of a particular race should be viewed and treated as inferior, less capable and at its extreme less morally significant than human beings of a preferred race. Generally concomitant views are that they therefore be subjugated to other, presumed superior, races in a given society and be afforded fewer rights and occupy less significant roles in life.
Uncle Tom posturing is different. It's the assertion that members of that subjugated race not align themselves with their oppressors and ought to sack up and stand firm with their more courageous counterparts who oppose their oppressors.
When the left calls out a conservative black for being conservative, they are doing the latter. Right or wrong, that's what that is. -
Hold the phone, this aint over yet
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You are saying three different things there and conflating them into one behavior. Let's be more precise shall we? To wit:SFGbob said:
When many on the left claim that Conservative blacks aren't "real" blacks and constantly claim that Thomas isn't that bright they are definitely engaging in racism.creepycoug said:Thank you.
But, but, but, but LIBERAL RAYSISM!
Fuck, from the show that has brought you "when they don't know what else to say, they cry racism" bitching, moaning, whining and bitching ad nauseam since forever.
It's not racism. It's Uncle Tom'ism, which is different than racism. Racism is the belief that members of a particular race should be viewed and treated as inferior, less capable and at its extreme less morally significant than human beings of a preferred race. Generally concomitant views are that they therefore be subjugated to other, presumed superior, races in a given society and be afforded fewer rights and occupy less significant roles in life.
Uncle Tom posturing is different. It's the assertion that members of that subjugated race not align themselves with their oppressors and ought to sack up and stand firm with their more courageous counterparts who oppose their oppressors.
When the left calls out a conservative black for being conservative, they are doing the latter. Right or wrong, that's what that is.
Liberals are constantly holding blacks to lower standards of behavior and performance than they would whites which is definitely racism.
> The left calling out a conservative black for being conservative is not racism, it's Uncle Tom'ism, as I explained. They aren't saying, "you suck because you're black," or even "you don't have the inalienable right to your view because you're black." They are saying "you are on the wrong team." Right or wrong, that's what's being said.
> The left saying Thomas isn't that bright is not necessarily racist. I refer you to the long discussion we had about the Zimmerman matter, and your indignation at the very suggestion that your purposefully-incendiary and stereotypical characterizations of Martin were racist. Nothing gets people like you pissed off like calling you racist, even when you're begging for it. Can't have it both ways. To be intellectually credible, much less honest, you MUST acknowledge it works both ways. Liberals can criticize black people without being racist. Period.
> Your comment about liberals holding blacks to lower standards of behavior than whites doesn't seem to be in the scope of this discussion, and sounds like a different thread topic. Moreover, it seems inconsistent with your other view, where you label lefty as racist for holding Thomas to higher standards of performance. Which is it? Are they racist for saying he's a shitty justice or for giving him an affirmative action pass? -
Of course you do, but I'm guessing you wouldn't apply that principle in every political context. Call me crazy.SFGbob said:
I agree with that. Calling someone a "sell out" or an "Uncle Tom" means that you believe there is an acceptable range of political thought that black people can operate in and if they step outside that range they are fair game and can be attacked by the left. They are "inferior" blacks in the mind of many liberals and thus not "real" or authentic.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Proscribing political thought upon a member of a racial group based on said race feels a little racist to me.creepycoug said:Thank you.
But, but, but, but LIBERAL RAYSISM!
Fuck, from the show that has brought you "when they don't know what else to say, they cry racism" bitching, moaning, whining and bitching ad nauseam since forever.
It's not racism. It's Uncle Tom'ism, which is different than racism. Racism is the belief that members of a particular race should be viewed and treated as inferior, less capable and at its extreme less morally significant than human beings of a preferred race. Generally concomitant views are that they therefore be subjugated to other, presumed superior, races in a given society and be afforded fewer rights and occupy less significant roles in life.
Uncle Tom posturing is different. It's the assertion that members of that subjugated race not align themselves with their oppressors and ought to sack up and stand firm with their more courageous counterparts who oppose their oppressors.
When the left calls out a conservative black for being conservative, they are doing the latter. Right or wrong, that's what that is.
Besides, that is a right-wing corruption of the concept. Nobody is saying, "hey, you're black, and so you don't get to have as many political views as whitey." Don't be absurd.
They're saying, "hey dumbfuck. there's a lot of history associated with your race or ethnicity around here and people on this side have helped you and people on that side have hurt you. you're on the wrong fucking team." Whether you agree with the veractiy of those assertions is irrelevant to what we're discussing. What's relevant is that the latter accurately describes what's going on when someone throws out an "uncle tom" reference. -
The left calling out a conservative black for being conservative is not racism,
Great because I never said it was.
They are saying "you are on the wrong team." Right or wrong, that's what's being said.
I wasn't aware that you speak for all blacks and all people who call Thomas or other conservative blacks an "Uncle Tom" and sellouts. Must be on account of that superior education that you're able to speak for everyone who uses that term an know what they really are saying. What a gift.
So when a white liberal calls a conservative black an Oreo or an Uncle Tom, they are just saying "hey, you're on the wrong team."
What was my stereotypical characterization of Trayvon?
I'm saying one thing despite your desperation to muddy the waters.
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Going Hondo I see.SFGbob said:The left calling out a conservative black for being conservative is not racism,
Great because I never said it was.
They are saying "you are on the wrong team." Right or wrong, that's what's being said.
I wasn't aware that you speak for all blacks and all people who call Thomas or other conservative blacks an "Uncle Tom" and sellouts. Must be on account of that superior education that you're able to speak for everyone who uses that term an know what they really are saying. What a gift.
So when a white liberal calls a conservative black an Oreo or an Uncle Tom, they are just saying "hey, you're on the wrong team."
What was my stereotypical characterization of Trayvon?
I'm saying one thing despite your desperation to muddy the waters.
You could have just said, "I lose."
I'm not revisiting Trayvon. The whole board saw what you were up to in that thread.
Are you saying that liberal people cannot criticize black people?
Why not?
Or is it black conservatives that enjoy special protection in your world?
I laid this out for you as clear as glass. If you can't do better than this, you might as well just call it a day. This is honestly some of your worst work. -
Besides, that is a right-wing corruption of the concept. Nobody is saying, "hey, you're black, and so you don't get to have as many political views as whitey." Don't be absurd.
Yeah, that's why every prominent Conservative black gets hit with that same charge. But hey, you know what they really mean when the say it right Coug? This guy was just saying, "Hey Clarence, you're not on my team."
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10142515/White-politician-calls-Clarence-Thomas-an-Uncle-Thomas.html
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So I guess white folks are on the wrong team if they are democrats
There is no justification for that road
Demonizing white men and then mocking them for being whiny victims isn't moving the ball forward it is kicking it back. I don't care what the girls on the View think of me as a white man but that doesn't mean they haven't been racist as shit this week on the Cav thing.
And judgement based solely on color or gender is racist or sexist by definition. Defining a person's political team by race is racist.
If you think certain kinds of racism or sexism are cool because of punching up or some such nonsense then fine. But it is still racism
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Pretty sure it was Brett Kavanaugh and not Craig James who killed the 5 hookers.GrundleStiltzkin said:Hold the phone, this aint over yet
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This is what makes you such an unadulterated moron. You just can't fucking give an inch in even the most obvious of circumstances, which is the hallmark of the stupid man.SFGbob said:
Besides, that is a right-wing corruption of the concept. Nobody is saying, "hey, you're black, and so you don't get to have as many political views as whitey." Don't be absurd.
Yeah, that's why every prominent Conservative black gets hit with that same charge. But hey, you know what they really mean when the say it right Coug? This guy was just saying, "Hey Clarence, you're not on my team."
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10142515/White-politician-calls-Clarence-Thomas-an-Uncle-Thomas.html
If all you're going to do here is move the goalposts and cry, "I didn't realize you speak for everybody and know what everybody means when they say ...." then save everyone the time and just hang yourself now.
Every single thing ever said by one person can be said by another person with different motives. I'd have thought that falls into the category of "no shit." But not for you HondoTrump.
The bottom line is what I've laid it out to be. Just because a liberal white person takes a black person to task for (1) their political ideology or (2) their performance does not make them racist.
People like you sit around and wait on pins and needles for people to call you racist so you can freak the fuck out and have a panic attack when they do.
Hypocrisy much?
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Just on the wrong team
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That's racism. That's different.RaceBannon said:Just on the wrong team
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Well that became a bloodbath rather quickly.creepycoug said:
This is what makes you such an unadulterated moron. You just can't fucking give an inch in even the most obvious of circumstances, which is the hallmark of the stupid man.SFGbob said:
Besides, that is a right-wing corruption of the concept. Nobody is saying, "hey, you're black, and so you don't get to have as many political views as whitey." Don't be absurd.
Yeah, that's why every prominent Conservative black gets hit with that same charge. But hey, you know what they really mean when the say it right Coug? This guy was just saying, "Hey Clarence, you're not on my team."
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10142515/White-politician-calls-Clarence-Thomas-an-Uncle-Thomas.html
If all you're going to do here is move the goalposts and cry, "I didn't realize you speak for everybody and know what everybody means when they say ...." then save everyone the time and just hang yourself now.
Every single thing ever said by one person can be said by another person with different motives. I'd have thought that falls into the category of "no shit." But not for you HondoTrump.
The bottom line is what I've laid it out to be. Just because a liberal white person takes a black person to task for (1) their political ideology or (2) their performance does not make them racist.
People like you sit around and wait on pins and needles for people to call you racist so you can freak the fuck out and have a panic attack when they do.
Hypocrisy much? -
It does indeed if the reason is because the person is Black and therefore should not have those viewscreepycoug said:
This is what makes you such an unadulterated moron. You just can't fucking give an inch in even the most obvious of circumstances, which is the hallmark of the stupid man.SFGbob said:
Besides, that is a right-wing corruption of the concept. Nobody is saying, "hey, you're black, and so you don't get to have as many political views as whitey." Don't be absurd.
Yeah, that's why every prominent Conservative black gets hit with that same charge. But hey, you know what they really mean when the say it right Coug? This guy was just saying, "Hey Clarence, you're not on my team."
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10142515/White-politician-calls-Clarence-Thomas-an-Uncle-Thomas.html
If all you're going to do here is move the goalposts and cry, "I didn't realize you speak for everybody and know what everybody means when they say ...." then save everyone the time and just hang yourself now.
Every single thing ever said by one person can be said by another person with different motives. I'd have thought that falls into the category of "no shit." But not for you HondoTrump.
The bottom line is what I've laid it out to be. Just because a liberal white person takes a black person to task for (1) their political ideology or (2) their performance does not make them racist.
People like you sit around and wait on pins and needles for people to call you racist so you can freak the fuck out and have a panic attack when they do.
Hypocrisy much?
That's pretty fucking obvious -
No. You're not reading strong.RaceBannon said:
It does indeed if the reason is because the person is Black and therefore should not have those viewscreepycoug said:
This is what makes you such an unadulterated moron. You just can't fucking give an inch in even the most obvious of circumstances, which is the hallmark of the stupid man.SFGbob said:
Besides, that is a right-wing corruption of the concept. Nobody is saying, "hey, you're black, and so you don't get to have as many political views as whitey." Don't be absurd.
Yeah, that's why every prominent Conservative black gets hit with that same charge. But hey, you know what they really mean when the say it right Coug? This guy was just saying, "Hey Clarence, you're not on my team."
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10142515/White-politician-calls-Clarence-Thomas-an-Uncle-Thomas.html
If all you're going to do here is move the goalposts and cry, "I didn't realize you speak for everybody and know what everybody means when they say ...." then save everyone the time and just hang yourself now.
Every single thing ever said by one person can be said by another person with different motives. I'd have thought that falls into the category of "no shit." But not for you HondoTrump.
The bottom line is what I've laid it out to be. Just because a liberal white person takes a black person to task for (1) their political ideology or (2) their performance does not make them racist.
People like you sit around and wait on pins and needles for people to call you racist so you can freak the fuck out and have a panic attack when they do.
Hypocrisy much?
That's pretty fucking obvious
That's not racism. That's a battle cry manufactured by the recruiting wing of the conservative party.
"Don't let them tell you that you can't vote Republican! That's racist!"
Bull shit. -
Come watch Bob struggle in every thread.
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If you supported Trump's wall as we like to call it and I said that you can't because you're Mexican that's racist. If I say you can't because we can't afford it or the other reasons people give me as a white man it isn't racist
Anything judged on the basis of race is racist. -
And why did the liberal Americans, we'll leave the Palis out of this, feel they could be so blatantly racist to Condi? Because of her political views not matching the preconceived notion of how Blacks should think or actcreepycoug said:
That's racism. That's different.RaceBannon said:Just on the wrong team
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If you said it because you thought it as against my interests as a Mexican, no, not racist.RaceBannon said:If you supported Trump's wall as we like to call it and I said that you can't because you're Mexican that's racist. If I say you can't because we can't afford it or the other reasons people give me as a white man it isn't racist
Anything judged on the basis of race is racist.
If you said it because you mean to limit what I think and do because I'm somehow less important than other people who are smart enough to be free to think as they like, then sure, that's racist.
The latter is pretty uncommon if we're being honest. The tone of Uncle Tom, usually, is "Fuck dude. You're really on the wrong team." And, the actual Uncle Toms, from which the term is derived, were on the wrong fucking team.
Today, that term has lost its meaning a bit. So, today, telling a black guy he shouldn't be conservative is of course very different than telling a house slave that he shouldn't side with the plantation boss.
But though it has lost the purity of application from the time of its origin, it is hardly racist.
It may not be good, but it's not racist. -
The gavel dropped and the case was closed. Your tortured logic is inadmissible
The left doesn't get to change the meaning of racism to fit their agenda.
It's basic shaming of minorities to try to get them in the herd and it's bullshit -
Same answer.RaceBannon said:
And why did the liberal Americans, we'll leave the Palis out of this, feel they could be so blatantly racist to Condi? Because of her political views not matching the preconceived notion of how Blacks should think or actcreepycoug said:
That's racism. That's different.RaceBannon said:Just on the wrong team
Politics are dirty; nobody is clean here.
But if the idea is rooted in, "great, you're with them," I might call it short-sighted, but I wouldn't call it racist.
If, on the other hand, I meant in the sense that she isn't smart enough to think for herself, which no clear thinking person would ever say about Condi, then yes, racism.
I don't think most people who took her to task were being racist. They were being political. Those are not the same.
Let's put it this way: Bob's intentional use of stereotypical terminology and assumption of the worst from every conceivable angle in the Trayvon Martin thread is a helluva lot more racist than me taking Thomas to task having his heart broken at being rejected by the establishment.
I'm sorry man. My feet are taped to the pedals on this one.
It's very hard (hard) for people on the right to be so touchy about the 'racism' label and then call liberals racist for criticizing team choice by a black or brown person. Not saying the latter is right; don't twist. Just not necessarily, or even usually, racist. -
I think this is the essential message of the #WalkAway movement, applicable to blacks & whites alike.creepycoug said:
If you said it because you thought it as against my interests as a Mexican, no, not racist.RaceBannon said:If you supported Trump's wall as we like to call it and I said that you can't because you're Mexican that's racist. If I say you can't because we can't afford it or the other reasons people give me as a white man it isn't racist
Anything judged on the basis of race is racist.
If you said it because you mean to limit what I think and do because I'm somehow less important than other people who are smart enough to be free to think as they like, then sure, that's racist.
The latter is pretty uncommon if we're being honest. The tone of Uncle Tom, usually, is "Fuck dude. You're really on the wrong team." And, the actual Uncle Toms, from which the term is derived, were on the wrong fucking team.
Today, that term has lost its meaning a bit. So, today, telling a black guy he shouldn't be conservative is of course very different than telling a house slave that he shouldn't side with the plantation boss.
But though it has lost the purity of application from the time of its origin, it is hardly racist.
It may not be good, but it's not racist. -
Lots of word just to say you were talking out your ass.creepycoug said:
This is what makes you such an unadulterated moron. You just can't fucking give an inch in even the most obvious of circumstances, which is the hallmark of the stupid man.SFGbob said:
Besides, that is a right-wing corruption of the concept. Nobody is saying, "hey, you're black, and so you don't get to have as many political views as whitey." Don't be absurd.
Yeah, that's why every prominent Conservative black gets hit with that same charge. But hey, you know what they really mean when the say it right Coug? This guy was just saying, "Hey Clarence, you're not on my team."
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10142515/White-politician-calls-Clarence-Thomas-an-Uncle-Thomas.html
If all you're going to do here is move the goalposts and cry, "I didn't realize you speak for everybody and know what everybody means when they say ...." then save everyone the time and just hang yourself now.
Every single thing ever said by one person can be said by another person with different motives. I'd have thought that falls into the category of "no shit." But not for you HondoTrump.
The bottom line is what I've laid it out to be. Just because a liberal white person takes a black person to task for (1) their political ideology or (2) their performance does not make them racist.
People like you sit around and wait on pins and needles for people to call you racist so you can freak the fuck out and have a panic attack when they do.
Hypocrisy much? -
I don't agree with that. Racism, for me, has at least an implied negative.RaceBannon said:If you supported Trump's wall as we like to call it and I said that you can't because you're Mexican that's racist. If I say you can't because we can't afford it or the other reasons people give me as a white man it isn't racist
Anything judged on the basis of race is racist. -
Come on Race, when white libs claim that black Conservatives aren't "real" black people, and that's what calling a black man an Uncle Tom really means, they're not being racist, they're just saying, "hey, you're not on my team."RaceBannon said:The gavel dropped and the case was closed. Your tortured logic is inadmissible
The left doesn't get to change the meaning of racism to fit their agenda.
It's basic shaming of minorities to try to get them in the herd and it's bullshit
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@creepycoug speaking HIS truth.
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If you actually read the book, Uncle Tom DIDN'T do what the massa said and that's what got him killed. He was almost Christ-like.creepycoug said:
If you said it because you thought it as against my interests as a Mexican, no, not racist.RaceBannon said:If you supported Trump's wall as we like to call it and I said that you can't because you're Mexican that's racist. If I say you can't because we can't afford it or the other reasons people give me as a white man it isn't racist
Anything judged on the basis of race is racist.
If you said it because you mean to limit what I think and do because I'm somehow less important than other people who are smart enough to be free to think as they like, then sure, that's racist.
The latter is pretty uncommon if we're being honest. The tone of Uncle Tom, usually, is "Fuck dude. You're really on the wrong team." And, the actual Uncle Toms, from which the term is derived, were on the wrong fucking team.
Today, that term has lost its meaning a bit. So, today, telling a black guy he shouldn't be conservative is of course very different than telling a house slave that he shouldn't side with the plantation boss.
But though it has lost the purity of application from the time of its origin, it is hardly racist.
It may not be good, but it's not racist.
OK -I kinda lied - I didn't read the book but vividly remember the Classics Illustrated comic version from when I was a kid.
The characterization has been severely morphed over the years.
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I like you better when you stick to debauchery. That's your sweet spot (not like that).PurpleThrobber said:
If you actually read the book, Uncle Tom DIDN'T do what the massa said and that's what got him killed. He was almost Christ-like.creepycoug said:
If you said it because you thought it as against my interests as a Mexican, no, not racist.RaceBannon said:If you supported Trump's wall as we like to call it and I said that you can't because you're Mexican that's racist. If I say you can't because we can't afford it or the other reasons people give me as a white man it isn't racist
Anything judged on the basis of race is racist.
If you said it because you mean to limit what I think and do because I'm somehow less important than other people who are smart enough to be free to think as they like, then sure, that's racist.
The latter is pretty uncommon if we're being honest. The tone of Uncle Tom, usually, is "Fuck dude. You're really on the wrong team." And, the actual Uncle Toms, from which the term is derived, were on the wrong fucking team.
Today, that term has lost its meaning a bit. So, today, telling a black guy he shouldn't be conservative is of course very different than telling a house slave that he shouldn't side with the plantation boss.
But though it has lost the purity of application from the time of its origin, it is hardly racist.
It may not be good, but it's not racist.
OK -I kinda lied - I didn't read the book but vividly remember the Classics Illustrated comic version from when I was a kid.
The characterization has been severely morphed over the years.
