Maybe Dems are starting to _get it_
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When Clinton, running as a centrist almost conservative democrat, beat Bush the GOP right said they needed to go further right even though Reagan was not as hard right as most people think. He was more like Trump, a former Hollywood democrat who felt the party moved too far left with Medicare.
Dole loses and it becomes lore that the GOP needed a right wing religious fundie to get the base out. W presented himself as that in the primaries but veered center to barely nip Gore at the wire. His religion almost cost the election because even religious folks tend to vote for civic issues not a theocracy. Always some bad apples in any fan base so don't twist.
Obama was another centrist campaign. Trump ran as an old school democrat. Hillary isn't a leftist but she never recovered from stealing the election from poor old Bernie.
Both sides want to veer hard to the left or right when they lose but history says it doesn't work. -
Bush 2 was seen as a cross the isle kind of "caring christian conservative" people forget that.RaceBannon said:When Clinton, running as a centrist almost conservative democrat, beat Bush the GOP right said they needed to go further right even though Reagan was not as hard right as most people think. He was more like Trump, a former Hollywood democrat who felt the party moved too far left with Medicare.
Dole loses and it becomes lore that the GOP needed a right wing religious fundie to get the base out. W presented himself as that in the primaries but veered center to barely nip Gore at the wire. His religion almost cost the election because even religious folks tend to vote for civic issues not a theocracy. Always some bad apples in any fan base so don't twist.
Obama was another centrist campaign. Trump ran as an old school democrat. Hillary isn't a leftist but she never recovered from stealing the election from poor old Bernie.
Both sides want to veer hard to the left or right when they lose but history says it doesn't work. -
I agree with your points, although I note that I didn't say our system functions like a parliamentary system in all respects. I still believe that the two major parties are best viewed as evolving coalitions that may include interest groups with divergent preferences.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Ehhhhhhh kind of except that there's hordes of people that are "independent" or swing voters in the US. In a parliamentary system you pretty much vote for whoever fits your platform exactly and then leave it to them to bargain it out as opposed to having to weigh out which issues are important to you and picking a candidate from some kind of balance of the good with the bad.Squirt said:Whatever. In a two-party system like ours, they're not monoliths. They're really just ever-evolving coalitions like the ones we'd see in a parliamentary system, except the coalitions crystallize within each party before elections instead of waiting to form after elections.
The Democratic Party coalition includes environmentalists and labor, two interest groups that don't always see eye to eye. It's nothing new to see conflict between elements of a party's coalition.
In the US it's really important to appeal to all of those voters that don't participate in primaries and aren't a part of your base. It's why the presidential candidate that can best tack back towards center, split the other party, or cross the isle usually wins. When you veer too far out right or left to "rally your base" it can alienate the middle.
Trump won by taking the white working vote from the Dems(or bc Hilldawg alienated them). Progressives think they can get that vote back by doubling down on an even more progressive message. Sure.gif -
This old bastard is smart and stuff.RaceBannon said:When Clinton, running as a centrist almost conservative democrat, beat Bush the GOP right said they needed to go further right even though Reagan was not as hard right as most people think. He was more like Trump, a former Hollywood democrat who felt the party moved too far left with Medicare.
Dole loses and it becomes lore that the GOP needed a right wing religious fundie to get the base out. W presented himself as that in the primaries but veered center to barely nip Gore at the wire. His religion almost cost the election because even religious folks tend to vote for civic issues not a theocracy. Always some bad apples in any fan base so don't twist.
Obama was another centrist campaign. Trump ran as an old school democrat. Hillary isn't a leftist but she never recovered from stealing the election from poor old Bernie.
Both sides want to veer hard to the left or right when they lose but history says it doesn't work. -
I’m really enjoying the people that want the Democrats to lose explaining how they can win. I know I always take the advice of people who want me to fail.
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Personally I would like Democrats display an ability to be self-reflective.allpurpleallgold said:I’m really enjoying the people that want the Democrats to lose explaining how they can win. I know I always take the advice of people who want me to fail.
One time.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-beat-trump-get-a-grip-1532386992?mod=e2fb -
I think they are doing a fantastic job of losingallpurpleallgold said:I’m really enjoying the people that want the Democrats to lose explaining how they can win. I know I always take the advice of people who want me to fail.
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What does? Asking for my Dems.RaceBannon said:When Clinton, running as a centrist almost conservative democrat, beat Bush the GOP right said they needed to go further right even though Reagan was not as hard right as most people think. He was more like Trump, a former Hollywood democrat who felt the party moved too far left with Medicare.
Dole loses and it becomes lore that the GOP needed a right wing religious fundie to get the base out. W presented himself as that in the primaries but veered center to barely nip Gore at the wire. His religion almost cost the election because even religious folks tend to vote for civic issues not a theocracy. Always some bad apples in any fan base so don't twist.
Obama was another centrist campaign. Trump ran as an old school democrat. Hillary isn't a leftist but she never recovered from stealing the election from poor old Bernie.
Both sides want to veer hard to the left or right when they lose but history says it doesn't work.
Those of us who did feel the Bern moved on, figuring by the time 2020 rolls around, Bern won’t feel the Bern.
I was bullish on Biden. TUFF Talk and all. Word is he’s out. He’s certainty not getting any younger.
Hillary was our ABBT vote. Shit candidate. Untrustworthy. Probably grabbed lots of pussies too. Unlike Trump, she was smart enough not to get recorded. It pained me, checking her name. Fuck, Mike Dukakis ran thirty years to early. Paging Gary Hart!
In a perfect world, I’d blend Regan, Billy, and Obama. Solid values, populist programs with a determined swag.
We were heading for a race clash long before 2008. Rainbows. Millatos. Look whose coming to dinner, a runaway train heading south, right for the silent Wallace supporters in the south. Very fine people, I’m told. Mix in those Weaver/Koresch disciples, holding out in the wilds of Idaho and Oregon (trigger alert) seeking revenge for the plungerings inflicted by bored HOF, one Janet Wood (can’t make this up) Reno
Regan makde America great again. Sincere. Folksy. Fireside chats were cool again.
Middle America prospered under Regans tax cuts. Stock markets climbed. Prosperity followed. Clinton made Fleetwood Mac cool again. Yes he raised taxes. The middle class thrived. Dollars were spent. The rich got richer. Deficits were reduced. Debt as a % of GDP did too.
I liked George. Cracked a few cold ones (true and cool story) with him. Dick Cheney was worse than Babuschka could ever be. Me and my Dems backed George, confident and defiant, on top of the rubble at Ground Zero. We went in and fucked some shit up.
But Cheney wanted Sadam. WMD. El oh fucking El. Dictators going to dictate. Taliban going to Taliban. The Middle East is a sticker with an air bubble. Move it around, it never leaves. Insiders shorted, markets fell. Somebody has to pay Roger Stone’s legal fees.
We ain’t race baiters. Ignore the outlier Alts trying to make us look bad.
We ain’t Commies, but yeah got a wee bit of Socialism in me like my boys Bezos, Billy G., Warren, and Jeffery Z.
Lez be honest, no one likes paying taxes but if you can’t buy our products we can’t be rich. (Disclosure. I am walk on, not preferred, in this league) welfare and unemployment might get you a cell phone but it don’t pay for prime memberships, office subscriptions, or interest payments to Bank of America. (Hi Hondo!)
I abhor debt. Bring back them Clinton rates.
A few less bucks in my pocket now is cool by me. I plan on hanging around. Dial it back a notch now. The train has left the station. The Silver Streak is shaking. Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder, dead.
To early for the A word?
Austerity. I like my Greeks when hedging my options over the The Greeks starting fires and rioting in streets.
Sources suggesting 60 might soon be the new 35.
Spare a dime for me brother?
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Austerity measures adopted by Obama in 2011 (after the stimulus was already not big enough) have kept our economy in a constant low growth, low inflation, high inequality cycle. Merkel and the German bankers pretty much made Europe do the same. And as a result we haven’t been able to get out of the shadow of the financial crisis.Baseman said:
What does? Asking for my Dems.RaceBannon said:When Clinton, running as a centrist almost conservative democrat, beat Bush the GOP right said they needed to go further right even though Reagan was not as hard right as most people think. He was more like Trump, a former Hollywood democrat who felt the party moved too far left with Medicare.
Dole loses and it becomes lore that the GOP needed a right wing religious fundie to get the base out. W presented himself as that in the primaries but veered center to barely nip Gore at the wire. His religion almost cost the election because even religious folks tend to vote for civic issues not a theocracy. Always some bad apples in any fan base so don't twist.
Obama was another centrist campaign. Trump ran as an old school democrat. Hillary isn't a leftist but she never recovered from stealing the election from poor old Bernie.
Both sides want to veer hard to the left or right when they lose but history says it doesn't work.
Those of us who did feel the Bern moved on, figuring by the time 2020 rolls around, Bern won’t feel the Bern.
I was bullish on Biden. TUFF Talk and all. Word is he’s out. He’s certainty not getting any younger.
Hillary was our ABBT vote. Shit candidate. Untrustworthy. Probably grabbed lots of pussies too. Unlike Trump, she was smart enough not to get recorded. It pained me, checking her name. Fuck, Mike Dukakis ran thirty years to early. Paging Gary Hart!
In a perfect world, I’d blend Regan, Billy, and Obama. Solid values, populist programs with a determined swag.
We were heading for a race clash long before 2008. Rainbows. Millatos. Look whose coming to dinner, a runaway train heading south, right for the silent Wallace supporters in the south. Very fine people, I’m told. Mix in those Weaver/Koresch disciples, holding out in the wilds of Idaho and Oregon (trigger alert) seeking revenge for the plungerings inflicted by bored HOF, one Janet Wood (can’t make this up) Reno
Regan makde America great again. Sincere. Folksy. Fireside chats were cool again.
Middle America prospered under Regans tax cuts. Stock markets climbed. Prosperity followed. Clinton made Fleetwood Mac cool again. Yes he raised taxes. The middle class thrived. Dollars were spent. The rich got richer. Deficits were reduced. Debt as a % of GDP did too.
I liked George. Cracked a few cold ones (true and cool story) with him. Dick Cheney was worse than Babuschka could ever be. Me and my Dems backed George, confident and defiant, on top of the rubble at Ground Zero. We went in and fucked some shit up.
But Cheney wanted Sadam. WMD. El oh fucking El. Dictators going to dictate. Taliban going to Taliban. The Middle East is a sticker with an air bubble. Move it around, it never leaves. Insiders shorted, markets fell. Somebody has to pay Roger Stone’s legal fees.
We ain’t race baiters. Ignore the outlier Alts trying to make us look bad.
We ain’t Commies, but yeah got a wee bit of Socialism in me like my boys Bezos, Billy G., Warren, and Jeffery Z.
Lez be honest, no one likes paying taxes but if you can’t buy our products we can’t be rich. (Disclosure. I am walk on, not preferred, in this league) welfare and unemployment might get you a cell phone but it don’t pay for prime memberships, office subscriptions, or interest payments to Bank of America. (Hi Hondo!)
I abhor debt. Bring back them Clinton rates.
A few less bucks in my pocket now is cool by me. I plan on hanging around. Dial it back a notch now. The train has left the station. The Silver Streak is shaking. Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder, dead.
To early for the A word?
Austerity. I like my Greeks when hedging my options over the The Greeks starting fires and rioting in streets.
Sources suggesting 60 might soon be the new 35.
Spare a dime for me brother?
