Maybe Dems are starting to _get it_

GrundleStiltzkin

http://time.com/5365422/democratic-party-fossil-fuel-contributions-labor/

The Democratic National Committee’s vote to ban contributions from fossil fuel companies in June was a big win for progressive activists fighting for an aggressive stance on global warming. It took only two months for the party to backtrack.

Last week, Tom Perez, the party’s top official, pushed through a measure undoing the commitment at the request of organized labor, whose leaders fear that some climate change measures could come at the cost of good-paying jobs. “After hearing concerns from Labor that this was an attack on workers, this resolution acknowledges the generous contributions of workers,” the DNC said in a statement, “including those in energy, who organize and donate to Democratic candidates.”

oregonblitzkrieg

Have they stopped....

...Being socialists?
...Being open borders lunatics?
...Supporting hate speech laws?
...Being racists against whites?
...Being faggots on college campuses?
...Being the party of the Ku Klux Klan?

No?

Then fuck them. They're not even close to getting it.

RaceBannon

Maybe the election is getting closer?

UW_Doog_Bot

No, no, no, they need to tack hard to the left to win the mid-terms. All my liberal frends say so.

Pitchfork51

God damn I hope they do

I swear to God people legitimately think the Dems going further left will help.


I would like a split in the Dems and maybe one comes out normal.

Squirt

Whatever. In a two-party system like ours, they're not monoliths. They're really just ever-evolving coalitions like the ones we'd see in a parliamentary system, except the coalitions crystallize within each party before elections instead of waiting to form after elections.

The Democratic Party coalition includes environmentalists and labor, two interest groups that don't always see eye to eye. It's nothing new to see conflict between elements of a party's coalition.

GrundleStiltzkin

Squirt said:

Whatever. In a two-party system like ours, they're not monoliths. They're really just ever-evolving coalitions like the ones we'd see in a parliamentary system, except the coalitions crystallize within each party before elections instead of waiting to form after elections.

The Democratic Party coalition includes environmentalists and labor, two interest groups that don't always see eye to eye. It's nothing new to see conflict between elements of a party's coalition.

Too much rationality here. Were you one of Race's TUFF liberals?

Pitchfork51

What are they planning to do to stop being such pathetic losers

UW_Doog_Bot

Squirt said:

Whatever. In a two-party system like ours, they're not monoliths. They're really just ever-evolving coalitions like the ones we'd see in a parliamentary system, except the coalitions crystallize within each party before elections instead of waiting to form after elections.

The Democratic Party coalition includes environmentalists and labor, two interest groups that don't always see eye to eye. It's nothing new to see conflict between elements of a party's coalition.

Ehhhhhhh kind of except that there's hordes of people that are "independent" or swing voters in the US. In a parliamentary system you pretty much vote for whoever fits your platform exactly and then leave it to them to bargain it out as opposed to having to weigh out which issues are important to you and picking a candidate from some kind of balance of the good with the bad.

In the US it's really important to appeal to all of those voters that don't participate in primaries and aren't a part of your base. It's why the presidential candidate that can best tack back towards center, split the other party, or cross the isle usually wins. When you veer too far out right or left to "rally your base" it can alienate the middle.

Trump won by taking the white working vote from the Dems(or bc Hilldawg alienated them). Progressives think they can get that vote back by doubling down on an even more progressive message. Sure.gif

Squirt

GrundleStiltzkin said:

Squirt said:

Whatever. In a two-party system like ours, they're not monoliths. They're really just ever-evolving coalitions like the ones we'd see in a parliamentary system, except the coalitions crystallize within each party before elections instead of waiting to form after elections.

The Democratic Party coalition includes environmentalists and labor, two interest groups that don't always see eye to eye. It's nothing new to see conflict between elements of a party's coalition.

Too much rationality here. Were you one of Race's TUFF liberals?

FUCK OFF AND DIE IN A FIRE YOU FESTERING PILE OF SHIT

GrundleStiltzkin

Squirt said:

GrundleStiltzkin said:

Squirt said:

Whatever. In a two-party system like ours, they're not monoliths. They're really just ever-evolving coalitions like the ones we'd see in a parliamentary system, except the coalitions crystallize within each party before elections instead of waiting to form after elections.

The Democratic Party coalition includes environmentalists and labor, two interest groups that don't always see eye to eye. It's nothing new to see conflict between elements of a party's coalition.

Too much rationality here. Were you one of Race's TUFF liberals?

FUCK OFF AND DIE IN A FIRE YOU FESTERING PILE OF SHIT

Sounds like a something a social-fascist would say tbh

CuntWaffle

https://twitter.com/urboijackie/status/1029062040655208449

RaceBannon

When Clinton, running as a centrist almost conservative democrat, beat Bush the GOP right said they needed to go further right even though Reagan was not as hard right as most people think. He was more like Trump, a former Hollywood democrat who felt the party moved too far left with Medicare.

Dole loses and it becomes lore that the GOP needed a right wing religious fundie to get the base out. W presented himself as that in the primaries but veered center to barely nip Gore at the wire. His religion almost cost the election because even religious folks tend to vote for civic issues not a theocracy. Always some bad apples in any fan base so don't twist.

Obama was another centrist campaign. Trump ran as an old school democrat. Hillary isn't a leftist but she never recovered from stealing the election from poor old Bernie.

Both sides want to veer hard to the left or right when they lose but history says it doesn't work.

UW_Doog_Bot

RaceBannon said:

When Clinton, running as a centrist almost conservative democrat, beat Bush the GOP right said they needed to go further right even though Reagan was not as hard right as most people think. He was more like Trump, a former Hollywood democrat who felt the party moved too far left with Medicare.

Dole loses and it becomes lore that the GOP needed a right wing religious fundie to get the base out. W presented himself as that in the primaries but veered center to barely nip Gore at the wire. His religion almost cost the election because even religious folks tend to vote for civic issues not a theocracy. Always some bad apples in any fan base so don't twist.

Obama was another centrist campaign. Trump ran as an old school democrat. Hillary isn't a leftist but she never recovered from stealing the election from poor old Bernie.

Both sides want to veer hard to the left or right when they lose but history says it doesn't work.

Bush 2 was seen as a cross the isle kind of "caring christian conservative" people forget that.

Squirt

UW_Doog_Bot said:

Squirt said:

Whatever. In a two-party system like ours, they're not monoliths. They're really just ever-evolving coalitions like the ones we'd see in a parliamentary system, except the coalitions crystallize within each party before elections instead of waiting to form after elections.

The Democratic Party coalition includes environmentalists and labor, two interest groups that don't always see eye to eye. It's nothing new to see conflict between elements of a party's coalition.

Ehhhhhhh kind of except that there's hordes of people that are "independent" or swing voters in the US. In a parliamentary system you pretty much vote for whoever fits your platform exactly and then leave it to them to bargain it out as opposed to having to weigh out which issues are important to you and picking a candidate from some kind of balance of the good with the bad.

In the US it's really important to appeal to all of those voters that don't participate in primaries and aren't a part of your base. It's why the presidential candidate that can best tack back towards center, split the other party, or cross the isle usually wins. When you veer too far out right or left to "rally your base" it can alienate the middle.

Trump won by taking the white working vote from the Dems(or bc Hilldawg alienated them). Progressives think they can get that vote back by doubling down on an even more progressive message. Sure.gif

I agree with your points, although I note that I didn't say our system functions like a parliamentary system in all respects. I still believe that the two major parties are best viewed as evolving coalitions that may include interest groups with divergent preferences.

Swaye

RaceBannon said:

When Clinton, running as a centrist almost conservative democrat, beat Bush the GOP right said they needed to go further right even though Reagan was not as hard right as most people think. He was more like Trump, a former Hollywood democrat who felt the party moved too far left with Medicare.

Dole loses and it becomes lore that the GOP needed a right wing religious fundie to get the base out. W presented himself as that in the primaries but veered center to barely nip Gore at the wire. His religion almost cost the election because even religious folks tend to vote for civic issues not a theocracy. Always some bad apples in any fan base so don't twist.

Obama was another centrist campaign. Trump ran as an old school democrat. Hillary isn't a leftist but she never recovered from stealing the election from poor old Bernie.

Both sides want to veer hard to the left or right when they lose but history says it doesn't work.

This old bastard is smart and stuff.

allpurpleallgold

I’m really enjoying the people that want the Democrats to lose explaining how they can win. I know I always take the advice of people who want me to fail.

pawz

allpurpleallgold said:

I’m really enjoying the people that want the Democrats to lose explaining how they can win. I know I always take the advice of people who want me to fail.

Personally I would like Democrats display an ability to be self-reflective.

One time.




https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-beat-trump-get-a-grip-1532386992?mod=e2fb

Pitchfork51

allpurpleallgold said:

I’m really enjoying the people that want the Democrats to lose explaining how they can win. I know I always take the advice of people who want me to fail.

I think they are doing a fantastic job of losing

Baseman

RaceBannon said:

When Clinton, running as a centrist almost conservative democrat, beat Bush the GOP right said they needed to go further right even though Reagan was not as hard right as most people think. He was more like Trump, a former Hollywood democrat who felt the party moved too far left with Medicare.

Dole loses and it becomes lore that the GOP needed a right wing religious fundie to get the base out. W presented himself as that in the primaries but veered center to barely nip Gore at the wire. His religion almost cost the election because even religious folks tend to vote for civic issues not a theocracy. Always some bad apples in any fan base so don't twist.

Obama was another centrist campaign. Trump ran as an old school democrat. Hillary isn't a leftist but she never recovered from stealing the election from poor old Bernie.

Both sides want to veer hard to the left or right when they lose but history says it doesn't work.

What does? Asking for my Dems.

Those of us who did feel the Bern moved on, figuring by the time 2020 rolls around, Bern won’t feel the Bern.

I was bullish on Biden. TUFF Talk and all. Word is he’s out. He’s certainty not getting any younger.

Hillary was our ABBT vote. Shit candidate. Untrustworthy. Probably grabbed lots of pussies too. Unlike Trump, she was smart enough not to get recorded. It pained me, checking her name. Fuck, Mike Dukakis ran thirty years to early. Paging Gary Hart!

In a perfect world, I’d blend Regan, Billy, and Obama. Solid values, populist programs with a determined swag.

We were heading for a race clash long before 2008. Rainbows. Millatos. Look whose coming to dinner, a runaway train heading south, right for the silent Wallace supporters in the south. Very fine people, I’m told. Mix in those Weaver/Koresch disciples, holding out in the wilds of Idaho and Oregon (trigger alert) seeking revenge for the plungerings inflicted by bored HOF, one Janet Wood (can’t make this up) Reno

Regan makde America great again. Sincere. Folksy. Fireside chats were cool again.
Middle America prospered under Regans tax cuts. Stock markets climbed. Prosperity followed. Clinton made Fleetwood Mac cool again. Yes he raised taxes. The middle class thrived. Dollars were spent. The rich got richer. Deficits were reduced. Debt as a % of GDP did too.

I liked George. Cracked a few cold ones (true and cool story) with him. Dick Cheney was worse than Babuschka could ever be. Me and my Dems backed George, confident and defiant, on top of the rubble at Ground Zero. We went in and fucked some shit up.

But Cheney wanted Sadam. WMD. El oh fucking El. Dictators going to dictate. Taliban going to Taliban. The Middle East is a sticker with an air bubble. Move it around, it never leaves. Insiders shorted, markets fell. Somebody has to pay Roger Stone’s legal fees.

We ain’t race baiters. Ignore the outlier Alts trying to make us look bad.

We ain’t Commies, but yeah got a wee bit of Socialism in me like my boys Bezos, Billy G., Warren, and Jeffery Z.

Lez be honest, no one likes paying taxes but if you can’t buy our products we can’t be rich. (Disclosure. I am walk on, not preferred, in this league) welfare and unemployment might get you a cell phone but it don’t pay for prime memberships, office subscriptions, or interest payments to Bank of America. (Hi Hondo!)

I abhor debt. Bring back them Clinton rates.

A few less bucks in my pocket now is cool by me. I plan on hanging around. Dial it back a notch now. The train has left the station. The Silver Streak is shaking. Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder, dead.

To early for the A word?

Austerity. I like my Greeks when hedging my options over the The Greeks starting fires and rioting in streets.

Sources suggesting 60 might soon be the new 35.

Spare a dime for me brother?

HardlyClothed

Baseman said:

RaceBannon said:

When Clinton, running as a centrist almost conservative democrat, beat Bush the GOP right said they needed to go further right even though Reagan was not as hard right as most people think. He was more like Trump, a former Hollywood democrat who felt the party moved too far left with Medicare.

Dole loses and it becomes lore that the GOP needed a right wing religious fundie to get the base out. W presented himself as that in the primaries but veered center to barely nip Gore at the wire. His religion almost cost the election because even religious folks tend to vote for civic issues not a theocracy. Always some bad apples in any fan base so don't twist.

Obama was another centrist campaign. Trump ran as an old school democrat. Hillary isn't a leftist but she never recovered from stealing the election from poor old Bernie.

Both sides want to veer hard to the left or right when they lose but history says it doesn't work.

What does? Asking for my Dems.

Those of us who did feel the Bern moved on, figuring by the time 2020 rolls around, Bern won’t feel the Bern.

I was bullish on Biden. TUFF Talk and all. Word is he’s out. He’s certainty not getting any younger.

Hillary was our ABBT vote. Shit candidate. Untrustworthy. Probably grabbed lots of pussies too. Unlike Trump, she was smart enough not to get recorded. It pained me, checking her name. Fuck, Mike Dukakis ran thirty years to early. Paging Gary Hart!

In a perfect world, I’d blend Regan, Billy, and Obama. Solid values, populist programs with a determined swag.

We were heading for a race clash long before 2008. Rainbows. Millatos. Look whose coming to dinner, a runaway train heading south, right for the silent Wallace supporters in the south. Very fine people, I’m told. Mix in those Weaver/Koresch disciples, holding out in the wilds of Idaho and Oregon (trigger alert) seeking revenge for the plungerings inflicted by bored HOF, one Janet Wood (can’t make this up) Reno

Regan makde America great again. Sincere. Folksy. Fireside chats were cool again.
Middle America prospered under Regans tax cuts. Stock markets climbed. Prosperity followed. Clinton made Fleetwood Mac cool again. Yes he raised taxes. The middle class thrived. Dollars were spent. The rich got richer. Deficits were reduced. Debt as a % of GDP did too.

I liked George. Cracked a few cold ones (true and cool story) with him. Dick Cheney was worse than Babuschka could ever be. Me and my Dems backed George, confident and defiant, on top of the rubble at Ground Zero. We went in and fucked some shit up.

But Cheney wanted Sadam. WMD. El oh fucking El. Dictators going to dictate. Taliban going to Taliban. The Middle East is a sticker with an air bubble. Move it around, it never leaves. Insiders shorted, markets fell. Somebody has to pay Roger Stone’s legal fees.

We ain’t race baiters. Ignore the outlier Alts trying to make us look bad.

We ain’t Commies, but yeah got a wee bit of Socialism in me like my boys Bezos, Billy G., Warren, and Jeffery Z.

Lez be honest, no one likes paying taxes but if you can’t buy our products we can’t be rich. (Disclosure. I am walk on, not preferred, in this league) welfare and unemployment might get you a cell phone but it don’t pay for prime memberships, office subscriptions, or interest payments to Bank of America. (Hi Hondo!)

I abhor debt. Bring back them Clinton rates.

A few less bucks in my pocket now is cool by me. I plan on hanging around. Dial it back a notch now. The train has left the station. The Silver Streak is shaking. Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder, dead.

To early for the A word?

Austerity. I like my Greeks when hedging my options over the The Greeks starting fires and rioting in streets.

Sources suggesting 60 might soon be the new 35.

Spare a dime for me brother?

Austerity measures adopted by Obama in 2011 (after the stimulus was already not big enough) have kept our economy in a constant low growth, low inflation, high inequality cycle. Merkel and the German bankers pretty much made Europe do the same. And as a result we haven’t been able to get out of the shadow of the financial crisis.