The Bill Clinton theory. Its a good one. If you can't figure out you want an abortion by week 20 you have issues.
The argument in favor of abortion for the man of faith is the carnage that back alley abortions would bring.
I also agree with @dnc that the sonogram has an effect on the debate. Its a baby when its yours its a tissue mass when it is someone else's
well, we all have issues.
back-alley is a good, but a pragmatic concern. here, we are wrestling with whether you're doing the moral equivalent of walking into a store and shooting someone. bigger question than "they'll just do it the wrong way" concerns, valid though they may be. I too watched Cider House Rules.
the sonogram is irrelevant. it's murder or it's not.
I thought and wrote a lot about this issue as an undergrad. I've concluded it is and should be polarizing af. You either think it's the moral equivalent of removing a mole, or you think you're killing a person for convenience.
Why isnt stopping those little swimmers before they reach the egg wrong then? Don't they have a right to reach their target?
Different. Otherwise, we have to conclude that Swaye is committing genocide every 20 minutes. Otherwise, every time your wife runs the red river you'd be having a funeral.
Once they reach their goal, you have the beginnings of a person, if left alone.
Sometimes the Red Army can be late to the fight, but then show up 6 or 7 weeks later. Some might celebrate, while others are devastated. Point being, the clump of cells is extremely vulnerable to dying off in the first number of weeks, and I don't think it's "intellectually terrible" to question the point at which "life begins".
You don't seem to think it's the egg, but that thing is still packed with tons of DNA and stopping the swimmer from getting to it is still playing god to one extent or another. Saying either it's "life" at the moment of conception, or not life until a human is actually outside the womb, is too absolutist for my taste.
The proper terms are ovulation, fertilization and implantation even if you aren't a doctor.
It's like calling every sickness "flu".
The layman's term comment wasn't directed at you. I was just running my hole.
I've been to more OB-GYN appointments than any man should have to attend in the past 4.5 years and get tired of the proper, technical medical terms. I get lazy sometimes and go layman- e.g., I call all sickness "plague" even if it's just a common cold and I wasn't bitten by a @dflea.
If you are against abortion you should be in favor of cheap and easily accessible birth control. If you support abstinence only education you are retarded.
Contraceptives are cheap and easy to attain. They just need not be given out to HS students. However should be available at bars like a breath mint.
HS students are the exact demographic that should have free access to birth control.
If said HS student is emancipated and lives on their own... sure.gif.
But if said HS student is under 18 and lives at home with their parents, It's the parents choice. Not the school's, not the government, not liberal fucktard that should make the decision to give little Johnny his rubbers or slutty Brittney her BC pills.
That's not to say that I didn't fully support slutty Brittney and her breathren back in the day. But this little Johnny had his rubbers.
Luckily in most states, parents already have no say in whether or not a kid wants to get birth control.
I'm sure involuntary celibacy worked wonders for you in high school, but it doesn't apply to everyone.
If you are against abortion you should be in favor of cheap and easily accessible birth control. If you support abstinence only education you are retarded.
Contraceptives are cheap and easy to attain. They just need not be given out to HS students. However should be available at bars like a breath mint.
HS students are the exact demographic that should have free access to birth control.
If said HS student is emancipated and lives on their own... sure.gif.
But if said HS student is under 18 and lives at home with their parents, It's the parents choice. Not the school's, not the government, not liberal fucktard that should make the decision to give little Johnny his rubbers or slutty Brittney her BC pills.
That's not to say that I didn't fully support slutty Brittney and her breathren back in the day. But this little Johnny had his rubbers.
Luckily in most states, parents already have no say in whether or not a kid wants to get birth control.
I'm sure involuntary celibacy worked wonders for you in high school, but it doesn't apply to everyone.
But the school take them for an abortion but can't give them an aspirin. Makes perfect sense.
If you are against abortion you should be in favor of cheap and easily accessible birth control. If you support abstinence only education you are retarded.
Contraceptives are cheap and easy to attain. They just need not be given out to HS students. However should be available at bars like a breath mint.
HS students are the exact demographic that should have free access to birth control.
If said HS student is emancipated and lives on their own... sure.gif.
But if said HS student is under 18 and lives at home with their parents, It's the parents choice. Not the school's, not the government, not liberal fucktard that should make the decision to give little Johnny his rubbers or slutty Brittney her BC pills.
That's not to say that I didn't fully support slutty Brittney and her breathren back in the day. But this little Johnny had his rubbers.
Luckily in most states, parents already have no say in whether or not a kid wants to get birth control.
I'm sure involuntary celibacy worked wonders for you in high school, but it doesn't apply to everyone.
But the school take them for an abortion but can't give them an aspirin. Makes perfect sense.
If you are against abortion you should be in favor of cheap and easily accessible birth control. If you support abstinence only education you are retarded.
Contraceptives are cheap and easy to attain. They just need not be given out to HS students. However should be available at bars like a breath mint.
HS students are the exact demographic that should have free access to birth control.
If said HS student is emancipated and lives on their own... sure.gif.
But if said HS student is under 18 and lives at home with their parents, It's the parents choice. Not the school's, not the government, not liberal fucktard that should make the decision to give little Johnny his rubbers or slutty Brittney her BC pills.
That's not to say that I didn't fully support slutty Brittney and her breathren back in the day. But this little Johnny had his rubbers.
Luckily in most states, parents already have no say in whether or not a kid wants to get birth control.
I'm sure involuntary celibacy worked wonders for you in high school, but it doesn't apply to everyone.
IT's not about celibacy. And it's not about whether they should have birth control. When you boinkin' you should. It's about who makes that decision and the parent guardian relationship. I will backtrack a bit on the rubbers thing. I wouldn't be so opposed to those being passed out in schools. However the family doctor should be the one prescribing bc pills to the girls. Not the school "nurse" who couldn't get a job at the free clinic
If you are against abortion you should be in favor of cheap and easily accessible birth control. If you support abstinence only education you are retarded.
Contraceptives are cheap and easy to attain. They just need not be given out to HS students. However should be available at bars like a breath mint.
HS students are the exact demographic that should have free access to birth control.
If said HS student is emancipated and lives on their own... sure.gif.
But if said HS student is under 18 and lives at home with their parents, It's the parents choice. Not the school's, not the government, not liberal fucktard that should make the decision to give little Johnny his rubbers or slutty Brittney her BC pills.
That's not to say that I didn't fully support slutty Brittney and her breathren back in the day. But this little Johnny had his rubbers.
Luckily in most states, parents already have no say in whether or not a kid wants to get birth control.
I'm sure involuntary celibacy worked wonders for you in high school, but it doesn't apply to everyone.
IT's not about celibacy. And it's not about whether they should have birth control. When you boinkin' you should. It's about who makes that decision and the parent guardian relationship. I will backtrack a bit on the rubbers thing. I wouldn't be so opposed to those being passed out in schools. However the family doctor should be the one prescribing bc pills to the girls. Not the school "nurse" who couldn't get a job at the free clinic
Fair enough, and I wasn't calling for the school to be in charge of birth control prescriptions. Planned Parenthood does a good job of offering free birth control to teens that don't have insurance.
Kids in high school are going to have sex with or without their parents permission. I prefer them not to get pregnant.
Sometimes the Red Army can be late to the fight, but then show up 6 or 7 weeks later. Some might celebrate, while others are devastated. Point being, the clump of cells is extremely vulnerable to dying off in the first number of weeks, and I don't think it's "intellectually terrible" to question the point at which "life begins".
You don't seem to think it's the egg, but that thing is still packed with tons of DNA and stopping the swimmer from getting to it is still playing god to one extent or another. Saying either it's "life" at the moment of conception, or not life until a human is actually outside the womb, is too absolutist for my taste.
As a pretend philosophizer, let me tell you that viability is amongst the worst and easiest of the abortion arguments to blow up. Unless you think it's ok to kill people who likely have not much time left. Why do you hate Stage 4 pancreatic cancer patients?
Tad poles and red river flowing eggs are easy lines to draw. They happen all the time and nobody cares because they shouldn't. Neither one is anything until it's something.
I didn't say "outside the womb." Don't twist. That's what makes this a hard (it's hard) debate.
The proper terms are ovulation, fertilization and implantation even if you aren't a doctor.
It's like calling every sickness "flu".
The layman's term comment wasn't directed at you. I was just running my hole.
I've been to more OB-GYN appointments than any man should have to attend in the past 4.5 years and get tired of the proper, technical medical terms. I get lazy sometimes and go layman- e.g., I call all sickness "plague" even if it's just a common cold and I wasn't bitten by a @dflea.
If you are against abortion you should be in favor of cheap and easily accessible birth control. If you support abstinence only education you are retarded.
Contraceptives are cheap and easy to attain. They just need not be given out to HS students. However should be available at bars like a breath mint.
HS students are the exact demographic that should have free access to birth control.
If said HS student is emancipated and lives on their own... sure.gif.
But if said HS student is under 18 and lives at home with their parents, It's the parents choice. Not the school's, not the government, not liberal fucktard that should make the decision to give little Johnny his rubbers or slutty Brittney her BC pills.
That's not to say that I didn't fully support slutty Brittney and her breathren back in the day. But this little Johnny had his rubbers.
Luckily in most states, parents already have no say in whether or not a kid wants to get birth control.
I'm sure involuntary celibacy worked wonders for you in high school, but it doesn't apply to everyone.
But the school take them for an abortion but can't give them an aspirin. Makes perfect sense.
If you are against abortion you should be in favor of cheap and easily accessible birth control. If you support abstinence only education you are retarded.
Contraceptives are cheap and easy to attain. They just need not be given out to HS students. However should be available at bars like a breath mint.
HS students are the exact demographic that should have free access to birth control.
If said HS student is emancipated and lives on their own... sure.gif.
But if said HS student is under 18 and lives at home with their parents, It's the parents choice. Not the school's, not the government, not liberal fucktard that should make the decision to give little Johnny his rubbers or slutty Brittney her BC pills.
That's not to say that I didn't fully support slutty Brittney and her breathren back in the day. But this little Johnny had his rubbers.
Luckily in most states, parents already have no say in whether or not a kid wants to get birth control.
I'm sure involuntary celibacy worked wonders for you in high school, but it doesn't apply to everyone.
IT's not about celibacy. And it's not about whether they should have birth control. When you boinkin' you should. It's about who makes that decision and the parent guardian relationship. I will backtrack a bit on the rubbers thing. I wouldn't be so opposed to those being passed out in schools. However the family doctor should be the one prescribing bc pills to the girls. Not the school "nurse" who couldn't get a job at the free clinic
Fair enough, and I wasn't calling for the school to be in charge of birth control prescriptions. Planned Parenthood does a good job of offering free birth control to teens that don't have insurance.
Kids in high school are going to have sex with or without their parents permission. I prefer them not to get pregnant.
Yes. I have been absolutely floored by the number of parents in my social circle who are so in the fucking dark about this. Especially the parents of the over-achieving crowd. Sorry, they fuck as much, or more, as the slackers.
One of the first things you have to get your head around is that your teen-age kid will (1) lie to you, (2) fuck and (3) lie to you. Even the good kids. Some are more adept at all three than others, but inevitably, they do what they do and they are really good at hiding it.
Best to be out in the open and help them to not be stupid.
Sometimes the Red Army can be late to the fight, but then show up 6 or 7 weeks later. Some might celebrate, while others are devastated. Point being, the clump of cells is extremely vulnerable to dying off in the first number of weeks, and I don't think it's "intellectually terrible" to question the point at which "life begins".
You don't seem to think it's the egg, but that thing is still packed with tons of DNA and stopping the swimmer from getting to it is still playing god to one extent or another. Saying either it's "life" at the moment of conception, or not life until a human is actually outside the womb, is too absolutist for my taste.
As a pretend philosophizer, let me tell you that viability is amongst the worst and easiest of the abortion arguments to blow up. Unless you think it's ok to kill people who likely have not much time left. Why do you hate Stage 4 pancreatic cancer patients?
Tad poles and red river flowing eggs are easy lines to draw. They happen all the time and nobody cares because they shouldn't. Neither one is anything until it's something.
I didn't say "outside the womb." Don't twist. That's what makes this a hard (it's hard) debate.
Proceed.
I've never taken a course in philosophy and therefore I'm not going to win a pretend philosophy argument with you. Politics should be the art of the possible, and I for one wish both extremes of this debate could agree to meet somewhere in the middle.
Comments
You don't seem to think it's the egg, but that thing is still packed with tons of DNA and stopping the swimmer from getting to it is still playing god to one extent or another. Saying either it's "life" at the moment of conception, or not life until a human is actually outside the womb, is too absolutist for my taste.
The proper terms are ovulation, fertilization and implantation even if you aren't a doctor.
It's like calling every sickness "flu".
The layman's term comment wasn't directed at you. I was just running my hole.
I'm sure involuntary celibacy worked wonders for you in high school, but it doesn't apply to everyone.
Kids in high school are going to have sex with or without their parents permission. I prefer them not to get pregnant.
You don't seem to think it's the egg, but that thing is still packed with tons of DNA and stopping the swimmer from getting to it is still playing god to one extent or another. Saying either it's "life" at the moment of conception, or not life until a human is actually outside the womb, is too absolutist for my taste.
Derek the quote thingy is broken ... AGAIN!!!!!!!
@YellowSnow ,
As a pretend philosophizer, let me tell you that viability is amongst the worst and easiest of the abortion arguments to blow up. Unless you think it's ok to kill people who likely have not much time left. Why do you hate Stage 4 pancreatic cancer patients?
Tad poles and red river flowing eggs are easy lines to draw. They happen all the time and nobody cares because they shouldn't. Neither one is anything until it's something.
I didn't say "outside the womb." Don't twist. That's what makes this a hard (it's hard) debate.
Proceed.
One of the first things you have to get your head around is that your teen-age kid will (1) lie to you, (2) fuck and (3) lie to you. Even the good kids. Some are more adept at all three than others, but inevitably, they do what they do and they are really good at hiding it.
Best to be out in the open and help them to not be stupid.