The Bill Clinton theory. Its a good one. If you can't figure out you want an abortion by week 20 you have issues.
The argument in favor of abortion for the man of faith is the carnage that back alley abortions would bring.
I also agree with @dnc that the sonogram has an effect on the debate. Its a baby when its yours its a tissue mass when it is someone else's
well, we all have issues.
back-alley is a good, but a pragmatic concern. here, we are wrestling with whether you're doing the moral equivalent of walking into a store and shooting someone. bigger question than "they'll just do it the wrong way" concerns, valid though they may be. I too watched Cider House Rules.
the sonogram is irrelevant. it's murder or it's not.
I thought and wrote a lot about this issue as an undergrad. I've concluded it is and should be polarizing af. You either think it's the moral equivalent of removing a mole, or you think you're killing a person for convenience.
Why isnt stopping those little swimmers before they reach the egg wrong then? Don't they have a right to reach their target?
Different. Otherwise, we have to conclude that Swaye is committing genocide every 20 minutes. Otherwise, every time your wife runs the red river you'd be having a funeral.
Once they reach their goal, you have the beginnings of a person, if left alone.
Murder? Yes How so? Ends the life of a human. Having sat in on my wife's sonograms, I can't imagine someone ending those little lives. Having had many friends and family members who have dealt with miscarriages (and the stillbirth of a nephew), I can tell you those were deaths of real lives to those parents.
Ok in cases of rape/incest? Not sure. Hard to justify. Also hard to tell someone who's been violated that they have to pay the price for nine more months for something they haven't done. If it was my wife/daughter I'd probably tell them it best to still have the baby if they can find the courage. I wouldn't campaign for it to be illegal in those cases though. And I believe it's absolutely justifiable to abort a baby to save the mother's life, though you didn't bring that up.
Also, if you think so, what are you doing here? Why are you not down at the clinics exercising your second amendment rights to bear arms and interfere in what amounts to murder? Isn't it the moral equivalent of standing by while a day care center down the street practices youth-in-asia? This is a chinteresting argument. Usually I and others like me get told we care too damn much about abortion. You're saying we don't care enough. You may be right. Personally I care about it a lot. I support pro life groups, especially those who promote the womb to tomb model. I advocate for adoption. I have had many conversations with people of all types about my reasoning on abortion. I'd say it's my largest political concern.
That one issue still wasn't big enough to get me to vote for Donald Trump though.
Genuinely (not really) curious what you fuck faces think about this.
PS: American private enterprise can build highways you dumb fucks.
"I don't get it"
Let me help you self-righteous assholes out of your mental sling:
If it's wrong it's wrong. 1 week, 20 weeks, whatever. You'll never draw a morally meaningful line, and this isn't the drinking age we're talking about.
If it's murder, there is absolutely zero justification for it. It's not hard to justify. You can't. Rape, incest, losers having more babies ... those are all irrelevant - completely - if we're talking about murder. Unless, that is, you fail to take it as axiomatic that innocent people shouldn't be expendable due to the misdeeds of others.
I'm not saying you don't care enuff. I'm saying you're duplicitous and full-of-shit. Either that, or you're a fucking coward who would stand by and watch someone snuff out a three-year old. It's one or the other if you're in the MURDER camp. You can't wriggle out of it. Nobody cares about your "conversations" - people are DYING!!!!!!!! Nobody cares if you "support" pro life groups; they're only slightly less cowardly than you. To be clear: you both think that mass genocide is happening in clearly identifiable clinics everywhere, and here you sit on HCH with a bunch of degenerates, and all they do is make weird signs and stand around. COWARDS! You should all be gunned up and DOING SOMETHING! But you're not because you actually don't equate what's happening in those clinics with the snuffing out of a five-year old. You just won't admit it.
To save the mother's life? WTF? Are you on crack? Is it ok to walk down the street and snuff out an innocent person to save someone's life? That baby, imbued with full person rights care of you and your friends, has zero responsibility for that woman's predicament. She chose to get pregs, and taking that "child's" life is no more justifiable than taking someone else's. You can't go kill someone to give your dying relative an organ. Sorry. That does not work.
Next?
This is ridiculous.
I used to be hardline, it's never acceptable. Then I realize I accept killing to protect life in many other forms (and most everyone else does to). War, self defense, death penalty... we take life to protect life frequently. Virtually every society agrees that killing can be murder in most cases but not murder in every case. Abortion is killing. Most of the time it's murder. That doesn't mean it always is.
The rest of your rant isn't worth responding to. There's only one self righteous asshole in this thread, and it ain't me.
I'm only on your ass to make a poont. Your examples are telling and instructive:
death penalty: inapposite because the fetus didn't do anything to anyone.
war: inapposite. there's no war.
self-defense: ah, interesting. yes, this one is tuffer. but is it really self-defense if the woman whose life is threatened put the fetus there by her actions? different than being assaulted for no reason. even in rape, the fetus is still innocent. didn't do the raping.
the rant was not w/o purpose: if you think it's actually equivalent to murdering little children, signs and politics isn't enuff. people who really think that should be on the front lines doing a lot more than arguing and chanting. I would if I believed it. I don't, so I don't.
If you are against abortion you should be in favor of cheap and easily accessible birth control. If you support abstinence only education you are retarded.
Contraceptives are cheap and easy to attain. They just need not be given out to HS students. However should be available at bars like a breath mint.
HS students are the exact demographic that should have free access to birth control.
If said HS student is emancipated and lives on their own... sure.gif.
But if said HS student is under 18 and lives at home with their parents, It's the parents choice. Not the school's, not the government, not liberal fucktard that should make the decision to give little Johnny his rubbers or slutty Brittney her BC pills.
That's not to say that I didn't fully support slutty Brittney and her breathren back in the day. But this little Johnny had his rubbers.
The Indian holocaust that occurs and reoccurs every time you paddle your flim flam and ejacumalate all over the floor. Those little guys were future Swayes damnit!
[Tear rolling down Creepy's Cheek ... like the pollution commercial Indian Chief]
If you are against abortion you should be in favor of cheap and easily accessible birth control. If you support abstinence only education you are retarded.
Contraceptives are cheap and easy to attain. They just need not be given out to HS students. However should be available at bars like a breath mint.
HS students are the exact demographic that should have free access to birth control.
If said HS student is emancipated and lives on their own... sure.gif.
But if said HS student is under 18 and lives at home with their parents, It's the parents choice. Not the school's, not the government, not liberal fucktard that should make the decision to give little Johnny his rubbers or slutty Brittney her BC pills.
That's not to say that I didn't fully support slutty Brittney and her breathren back in the day. But this little Johnny had his rubbers.
If you are against abortion you should be in favor of cheap and easily accessible birth control. If you support abstinence only education you are retarded.
Contraceptives are cheap and easy to attain. They just need not be given out to HS students. However should be available at bars like a breath mint.
Comments
Once they reach their goal, you have the beginnings of a person, if left alone.
death penalty: inapposite because the fetus didn't do anything to anyone.
war: inapposite. there's no war.
self-defense: ah, interesting. yes, this one is tuffer. but is it really self-defense if the woman whose life is threatened put the fetus there by her actions? different than being assaulted for no reason. even in rape, the fetus is still innocent. didn't do the raping.
the rant was not w/o purpose: if you think it's actually equivalent to murdering little children, signs and politics isn't enuff. people who really think that should be on the front lines doing a lot more than arguing and chanting. I would if I believed it. I don't, so I don't.
[Tear rolling down Creepy's Cheek ... like the pollution commercial Indian Chief]
I really, really thought this thread would be about taint-licking.