Why does Jordan get a pass for '95?
Comments
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Yes it is.RoadDawg55 said:
LeBron might end up with more regular season MVP's. That's about it. The competition one isn't cut and dry. Top to bottom the league is much better now, but there were some pretty stacked teams in the 80's and 90's.ThomasFremont said:
Actually there are quite a few. That's the fucking point.RoadDawg55 said:
There isn't one objective measure to put LeBron above Jordan. Maybe LeBron will finish with more regular season MVP's if you want to stoop that low. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson, LeBron had to play for Mike Brown, yadda, yadda. Facts are facts, boobie lips. If you want to argue that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, I would agree.ThomasFremont said:
Disagree.RoadDawg55 said:
LBJ is not underrated. He's one of the best of all time. Trying to compare him to Jordan is FS though. It's not even close.Doogles said:And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"
I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.
I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.
Jordan has 6-0.
LeBron has everything else. Against better competition.
If you think the 80s-90s NBA was better than the current version, go light yourself on fire.
This isn't even a debate.
The skill level in the modern era is at an all-time high.
The athleticism is at an all-time high.
What are these stacked teams you are referring to, besides the aging Lakers/Celtics dynasties, the Pistons that stomped MJ until they fell apart, and MJ's own Bulls? -
Thanks for ruining a perfectly good troll joballpurpleallgold said:The difference between Jordan and Lebron is Jordan would have murdered the Mavericks franchise if they tried to guard him with JJ Barea.
If you were going to have a 5 on 5 game of all the NBA greats in their prime and your life was on the line you'd pick Jordan first every time. It doesn't matter if anyone is ever a better basketball player. You'd pick him first because you wouldn't want to piss him off. That's why he's the GOAT.
I'd like to see Jordan take it to the rim against Bill Russell though -
They were actual teams vz. Individuals.ThomasFremont said:
Yes it is.RoadDawg55 said:
LeBron might end up with more regular season MVP's. That's about it. The competition one isn't cut and dry. Top to bottom the league is much better now, but there were some pretty stacked teams in the 80's and 90's.ThomasFremont said:
Actually there are quite a few. That's the fucking point.RoadDawg55 said:
There isn't one objective measure to put LeBron above Jordan. Maybe LeBron will finish with more regular season MVP's if you want to stoop that low. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson, LeBron had to play for Mike Brown, yadda, yadda. Facts are facts, boobie lips. If you want to argue that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, I would agree.ThomasFremont said:
Disagree.RoadDawg55 said:
LBJ is not underrated. He's one of the best of all time. Trying to compare him to Jordan is FS though. It's not even close.Doogles said:And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"
I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.
I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.
Jordan has 6-0.
LeBron has everything else. Against better competition.
If you think the 80s-90s NBA was better than the current version, go light yourself on fire.
This isn't even a debate.
The skill level in the modern era is at an all-time high.
The athleticism is at an all-time high.
What are these stacked teams you are referring to, besides the aging Lakers/Celtics dynasties, the Pistons that stomped MJ until they fell apart, and MJ's own Bulls?
I recently watched my buddy play an international rugby friendly at kezar stadium. It was a collection of nor cal Allstars(some are USA eagles) vs. the best collegiate team in England.
Although clearly more talented/athletic the all star adults got their shit pushed in by the regimented young bucks.
Being a team matters, today's nba (minus the spurs) is a group of individuals and not a team. That's the problem in comparing eras. -
You realize that this notion of superior teams/supporting casts back in the day supports the LeBron is better than Jordan argument, right?Doogles said:
They were actual teams vz. Individuals.ThomasFremont said:
Yes it is.RoadDawg55 said:
LeBron might end up with more regular season MVP's. That's about it. The competition one isn't cut and dry. Top to bottom the league is much better now, but there were some pretty stacked teams in the 80's and 90's.ThomasFremont said:
Actually there are quite a few. That's the fucking point.RoadDawg55 said:
There isn't one objective measure to put LeBron above Jordan. Maybe LeBron will finish with more regular season MVP's if you want to stoop that low. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson, LeBron had to play for Mike Brown, yadda, yadda. Facts are facts, boobie lips. If you want to argue that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, I would agree.ThomasFremont said:
Disagree.RoadDawg55 said:
LBJ is not underrated. He's one of the best of all time. Trying to compare him to Jordan is FS though. It's not even close.Doogles said:And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"
I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.
I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.
Jordan has 6-0.
LeBron has everything else. Against better competition.
If you think the 80s-90s NBA was better than the current version, go light yourself on fire.
This isn't even a debate.
The skill level in the modern era is at an all-time high.
The athleticism is at an all-time high.
What are these stacked teams you are referring to, besides the aging Lakers/Celtics dynasties, the Pistons that stomped MJ until they fell apart, and MJ's own Bulls?
I recently watched my buddy play an international rugby friendly at kezar stadium. It was a collection of nor cal Allstars(some are USA eagles) vs. the best collegiate team in England.
Although clearly more talented/athletic the all star adults got their shit pushed in by the regimented young bucks.
Being a team matters, today's nba (minus the spurs) is a group of individuals and not a team. That's the problem in comparing eras. -
The Warriors aren't a team?Doogles said:
They were actual teams vz. Individuals.ThomasFremont said:
Yes it is.RoadDawg55 said:
LeBron might end up with more regular season MVP's. That's about it. The competition one isn't cut and dry. Top to bottom the league is much better now, but there were some pretty stacked teams in the 80's and 90's.ThomasFremont said:
Actually there are quite a few. That's the fucking point.RoadDawg55 said:
There isn't one objective measure to put LeBron above Jordan. Maybe LeBron will finish with more regular season MVP's if you want to stoop that low. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson, LeBron had to play for Mike Brown, yadda, yadda. Facts are facts, boobie lips. If you want to argue that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, I would agree.ThomasFremont said:
Disagree.RoadDawg55 said:
LBJ is not underrated. He's one of the best of all time. Trying to compare him to Jordan is FS though. It's not even close.Doogles said:And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"
I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.
I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.
Jordan has 6-0.
LeBron has everything else. Against better competition.
If you think the 80s-90s NBA was better than the current version, go light yourself on fire.
This isn't even a debate.
The skill level in the modern era is at an all-time high.
The athleticism is at an all-time high.
What are these stacked teams you are referring to, besides the aging Lakers/Celtics dynasties, the Pistons that stomped MJ until they fell apart, and MJ's own Bulls?
I recently watched my buddy play an international rugby friendly at kezar stadium. It was a collection of nor cal Allstars(some are USA eagles) vs. the best collegiate team in England.
Although clearly more talented/athletic the all star adults got their shit pushed in by the regimented young bucks.
Being a team matters, today's nba (minus the spurs) is a group of individuals and not a team. That's the problem in comparing eras. -
What about RoadDawgs's Hawks???RaceBannon said:
The Warriors aren't a team?Doogles said:
They were actual teams vz. Individuals.ThomasFremont said:
Yes it is.RoadDawg55 said:
LeBron might end up with more regular season MVP's. That's about it. The competition one isn't cut and dry. Top to bottom the league is much better now, but there were some pretty stacked teams in the 80's and 90's.ThomasFremont said:
Actually there are quite a few. That's the fucking point.RoadDawg55 said:
There isn't one objective measure to put LeBron above Jordan. Maybe LeBron will finish with more regular season MVP's if you want to stoop that low. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson, LeBron had to play for Mike Brown, yadda, yadda. Facts are facts, boobie lips. If you want to argue that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, I would agree.ThomasFremont said:
Disagree.RoadDawg55 said:
LBJ is not underrated. He's one of the best of all time. Trying to compare him to Jordan is FS though. It's not even close.Doogles said:And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"
I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.
I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.
Jordan has 6-0.
LeBron has everything else. Against better competition.
If you think the 80s-90s NBA was better than the current version, go light yourself on fire.
This isn't even a debate.
The skill level in the modern era is at an all-time high.
The athleticism is at an all-time high.
What are these stacked teams you are referring to, besides the aging Lakers/Celtics dynasties, the Pistons that stomped MJ until they fell apart, and MJ's own Bulls?
I recently watched my buddy play an international rugby friendly at kezar stadium. It was a collection of nor cal Allstars(some are USA eagles) vs. the best collegiate team in England.
Although clearly more talented/athletic the all star adults got their shit pushed in by the regimented young bucks.
Being a team matters, today's nba (minus the spurs) is a group of individuals and not a team. That's the problem in comparing eras. -
You realize my whole angle this entire thread has been towards narrowing the gap between the two, right?ThomasFremont said:
You realize that this notion of superior teams/supporting casts back in the day supports the LeBron is better than Jordan argument, right?Doogles said:
They were actual teams vz. Individuals.ThomasFremont said:
Yes it is.RoadDawg55 said:
LeBron might end up with more regular season MVP's. That's about it. The competition one isn't cut and dry. Top to bottom the league is much better now, but there were some pretty stacked teams in the 80's and 90's.ThomasFremont said:
Actually there are quite a few. That's the fucking point.RoadDawg55 said:
There isn't one objective measure to put LeBron above Jordan. Maybe LeBron will finish with more regular season MVP's if you want to stoop that low. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson, LeBron had to play for Mike Brown, yadda, yadda. Facts are facts, boobie lips. If you want to argue that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, I would agree.ThomasFremont said:
Disagree.RoadDawg55 said:
LBJ is not underrated. He's one of the best of all time. Trying to compare him to Jordan is FS though. It's not even close.Doogles said:And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"
I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.
I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.
Jordan has 6-0.
LeBron has everything else. Against better competition.
If you think the 80s-90s NBA was better than the current version, go light yourself on fire.
This isn't even a debate.
The skill level in the modern era is at an all-time high.
The athleticism is at an all-time high.
What are these stacked teams you are referring to, besides the aging Lakers/Celtics dynasties, the Pistons that stomped MJ until they fell apart, and MJ's own Bulls?
I recently watched my buddy play an international rugby friendly at kezar stadium. It was a collection of nor cal Allstars(some are USA eagles) vs. the best collegiate team in England.
Although clearly more talented/athletic the all star adults got their shit pushed in by the regimented young bucks.
Being a team matters, today's nba (minus the spurs) is a group of individuals and not a team. That's the problem in comparing eras. -
The gap isn't narrowing. It's widening. In LeBron's favor.Doogles said:
You realize my whole angle this entire thread has been towards narrowing the gap between the two, right?ThomasFremont said:
You realize that this notion of superior teams/supporting casts back in the day supports the LeBron is better than Jordan argument, right?Doogles said:
They were actual teams vz. Individuals.ThomasFremont said:
Yes it is.RoadDawg55 said:
LeBron might end up with more regular season MVP's. That's about it. The competition one isn't cut and dry. Top to bottom the league is much better now, but there were some pretty stacked teams in the 80's and 90's.ThomasFremont said:
Actually there are quite a few. That's the fucking point.RoadDawg55 said:
There isn't one objective measure to put LeBron above Jordan. Maybe LeBron will finish with more regular season MVP's if you want to stoop that low. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson, LeBron had to play for Mike Brown, yadda, yadda. Facts are facts, boobie lips. If you want to argue that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, I would agree.ThomasFremont said:
Disagree.RoadDawg55 said:
LBJ is not underrated. He's one of the best of all time. Trying to compare him to Jordan is FS though. It's not even close.Doogles said:And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"
I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.
I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.
Jordan has 6-0.
LeBron has everything else. Against better competition.
If you think the 80s-90s NBA was better than the current version, go light yourself on fire.
This isn't even a debate.
The skill level in the modern era is at an all-time high.
The athleticism is at an all-time high.
What are these stacked teams you are referring to, besides the aging Lakers/Celtics dynasties, the Pistons that stomped MJ until they fell apart, and MJ's own Bulls?
I recently watched my buddy play an international rugby friendly at kezar stadium. It was a collection of nor cal Allstars(some are USA eagles) vs. the best collegiate team in England.
Although clearly more talented/athletic the all star adults got their shit pushed in by the regimented young bucks.
Being a team matters, today's nba (minus the spurs) is a group of individuals and not a team. That's the problem in comparing eras.
HTH -
Everybody had two hall of famers during that era.RoadDawg55 said:
The Jazz had two hall of famers and won 64 and 62 games the two years they made the finals.greenblood said:
I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.RaceBannon said:I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.
Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily
Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix
Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.
Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit
Hakeem and Clyde (later charles)
Barkley and kevin johnson
Drexler Ainge
Payton Kemp
NBA hall of fame doesnt mean shit
There's a reason stockton and malone never won shit. They were longevity stat-compilers, but not really all that outstanding. On top of that, they were just about ready to collect their social security checks when Jordan faced hem in the finals.
-
WTF'd for listing Ainge and Kemp as hall of famers. Kemp may have been if cocaine hadn't have won. Ainge? You do realize he spent most of his career as a pretty good backup PG, right?SevenEleven said:
Everybody had two hall of famers during that era.RoadDawg55 said:
The Jazz had two hall of famers and won 64 and 62 games the two years they made the finals.greenblood said:
I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.RaceBannon said:I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.
Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily
Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix
Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.
Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit
Hakeem and Clyde (later charles)
Barkley and kevin johnson
Drexler Ainge
Payton Kemp
NBA hall of fame doesnt mean shit
There's a reason stockton and malone never won shit. They were longevity stat-compilers, but not really all that outstanding. On top of that, they were just about ready to collect their social security checks when Jordan faced hem in the finals. -
I'm sorry, but Malone and Stockton are one of the best tandoms in the nba. It's a testament to Jordan to keep them at bay, but to say they aren't HOF worthy is Laoghaire
Edit: laughable -
Kemp was the best forward in the leaguegreenblood said:
WTF'd for listing Ainge and Kemp as hall of famers. Kemp may have been if cocaine hadn't have won. Ainge? You do realize he spent most of his career as a pretty good backup PG, right?SevenEleven said:
Everybody had two hall of famers during that era.RoadDawg55 said:
The Jazz had two hall of famers and won 64 and 62 games the two years they made the finals.greenblood said:
I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.RaceBannon said:I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.
Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily
Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix
Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.
Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit
Hakeem and Clyde (later charles)
Barkley and kevin johnson
Drexler Ainge
Payton Kemp
NBA hall of fame doesnt mean shit
There's a reason stockton and malone never won shit. They were longevity stat-compilers, but not really all that outstanding. On top of that, they were just about ready to collect their social security checks when Jordan faced hem in the finals. -
Kemp was a beast. I choose him over barkley. People were scared of him. He was what Blake Griffin dreams of being.RaceBannon said:
Kemp was the best forward in the leaguegreenblood said:
WTF'd for listing Ainge and Kemp as hall of famers. Kemp may have been if cocaine hadn't have won. Ainge? You do realize he spent most of his career as a pretty good backup PG, right?SevenEleven said:
Everybody had two hall of famers during that era.RoadDawg55 said:
The Jazz had two hall of famers and won 64 and 62 games the two years they made the finals.greenblood said:
I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.RaceBannon said:I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.
Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily
Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix
Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.
Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit
Hakeem and Clyde (later charles)
Barkley and kevin johnson
Drexler Ainge
Payton Kemp
NBA hall of fame doesnt mean shit
There's a reason stockton and malone never won shit. They were longevity stat-compilers, but not really all that outstanding. On top of that, they were just about ready to collect their social security checks when Jordan faced hem in the finals. -
When you win every year, it's hard to beat another champ.RaceBannon said:
NBA TV had a great doc on the Rockets that took the Jordan issue on head on. As any viewer of ESPN Classic knows, the Rockets had struggled in the West during Jordan's first three. For one, they couldn't beat the Sonics. Even in 94 when they won their first title Seattle was the #1 seed. (fuck you Mutumbo)Doogles said:And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"
I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.
I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance.
They showed Jordan retiring and coming back and addressed his brief 1995 season. That was the year Hakeem abused the shit out of Shaq in a sweep.
The Rockets pointed to how they owned Jordan during the regular season through out those years -a true but meaningless fact.
Would have made a good finals at some point.
Jordan never beat a NBA champion after the first one against the Lakers with Magic and everyone hurt.
Not like beating a 5 time champ like the Spurs
Carry on -
5-4 >>> 2-4, but still.RoadDawg55 said:
There isn't one objective measure to put LeBron above Jordan. Maybe LeBron will finish with more regular season MVP's if you want to stoop that low. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson, LeBron had to play for Mike Brown, yadda, yadda. Facts are facts, boobie lips. If you want to argue that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, I would agree.ThomasFremont said:
Disagree.RoadDawg55 said:
LBJ is not underrated. He's one of the best of all time. Trying to compare him to Jordan is FS though. It's not even close.Doogles said:And to think I almost didn't click "post discussion"
I've moved to a much seedier dive and have switched from bloodies to Jameson and headlands ipa.
I'll keep drinking while the slap fight ensues. LBJ is underrated by this board, but Jordan kept hall of famers from wearing rings. My initial comment was more to the point that Jordan was beaten in his prime and didn't make the finals. Any Houston fans can also call Bullshit on the claim Olajuwon only won bc Jordan wasn't there. He was, he just missed the dance. -
Kemp had about 3 great years.
The best power forward of the 90's was Malone and it's beyond FS to suggest otherwise.
Edit: one could suggest Barkley too - but Chuck was a hybrid big ass freak who played all over the floor.
-
Charles Barkley >>> Karl MalonePurpleThrobber said:Kemp had about 3 great years.
The best power forward of the 90's was Malone and it's beyond FS to suggest otherwise. -
Blake Griffin will end up a better player than Shawn Kemp. Sonics fans will disagree and Kemp was obviously good, but he's been overrated over time. If you use playoff success, Kemp only had one year he made it out of the 2nd round. Griffin is a lot better as a playmaker. Kemp was a little better rebounder and defender. It's a close call, but I would take Griffin if forced to choose.Doogles said:
Kemp was a beast. I choose him over barkley. People were scared of him. He was what Blake Griffin dreams of being.RaceBannon said:
Kemp was the best forward in the leaguegreenblood said:
WTF'd for listing Ainge and Kemp as hall of famers. Kemp may have been if cocaine hadn't have won. Ainge? You do realize he spent most of his career as a pretty good backup PG, right?SevenEleven said:
Everybody had two hall of famers during that era.RoadDawg55 said:
The Jazz had two hall of famers and won 64 and 62 games the two years they made the finals.greenblood said:
I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.RaceBannon said:I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.
Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily
Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix
Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.
Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit
Hakeem and Clyde (later charles)
Barkley and kevin johnson
Drexler Ainge
Payton Kemp
NBA hall of fame doesnt mean shit
There's a reason stockton and malone never won shit. They were longevity stat-compilers, but not really all that outstanding. On top of that, they were just about ready to collect their social security checks when Jordan faced hem in the finals. -
Barkley > Malone > Kemp.
-
If the steps Griffin took at the end of this year hold, then you'll be right. I think it was just a hot streak though, and if it was, no chance his peak will exceed Kemp's peak. Griffin's career should easily best Kemp's career, because cocaine.RoadDawg55 said:
Blake Griffin will end up a better player than Shawn Kemp. Sonics fans will disagree and Kemp was obviously good, but he's been overrated over time. If you use playoff success, Kemp only had one year he made it out of the 2nd round. Griffin is a lot better as a playmaker. Kemp was a little better rebounder and defender. It's a close call, but I would take Griffin if forced to choose.Doogles said:
Kemp was a beast. I choose him over barkley. People were scared of him. He was what Blake Griffin dreams of being.RaceBannon said:
Kemp was the best forward in the leaguegreenblood said:
WTF'd for listing Ainge and Kemp as hall of famers. Kemp may have been if cocaine hadn't have won. Ainge? You do realize he spent most of his career as a pretty good backup PG, right?SevenEleven said:
Everybody had two hall of famers during that era.RoadDawg55 said:
The Jazz had two hall of famers and won 64 and 62 games the two years they made the finals.greenblood said:
I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.RaceBannon said:I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.
Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily
Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix
Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.
Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit
Hakeem and Clyde (later charles)
Barkley and kevin johnson
Drexler Ainge
Payton Kemp
NBA hall of fame doesnt mean shit
There's a reason stockton and malone never won shit. They were longevity stat-compilers, but not really all that outstanding. On top of that, they were just about ready to collect their social security checks when Jordan faced hem in the finals.
-
I knew you would disagree. Griffin has actually developed his game. Kemp had a decent mid range jumper, but he didn't have the skill Griffin does.dnc said:
If the steps Griffin took at the end of this year hold, then you'll be right. I think it was just a hot streak though, and if it was, no chance his peak will exceed Kemp's peak. Griffin's career should easily best Kemp's career, because cocaine.RoadDawg55 said:
Blake Griffin will end up a better player than Shawn Kemp. Sonics fans will disagree and Kemp was obviously good, but he's been overrated over time. If you use playoff success, Kemp only had one year he made it out of the 2nd round. Griffin is a lot better as a playmaker. Kemp was a little better rebounder and defender. It's a close call, but I would take Griffin if forced to choose.Doogles said:
Kemp was a beast. I choose him over barkley. People were scared of him. He was what Blake Griffin dreams of being.RaceBannon said:
Kemp was the best forward in the leaguegreenblood said:
WTF'd for listing Ainge and Kemp as hall of famers. Kemp may have been if cocaine hadn't have won. Ainge? You do realize he spent most of his career as a pretty good backup PG, right?SevenEleven said:
Everybody had two hall of famers during that era.RoadDawg55 said:
The Jazz had two hall of famers and won 64 and 62 games the two years they made the finals.greenblood said:
I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.RaceBannon said:I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.
Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily
Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix
Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.
Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit
Hakeem and Clyde (later charles)
Barkley and kevin johnson
Drexler Ainge
Payton Kemp
NBA hall of fame doesnt mean shit
There's a reason stockton and malone never won shit. They were longevity stat-compilers, but not really all that outstanding. On top of that, they were just about ready to collect their social security checks when Jordan faced hem in the finals. -
Kemps reebok kamikaze 2 is better than anything griffin will produce.
God I miss 90's basketball shoes. -
In 96 Kemp had just outplayed Malone in the conference finals
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Greatest non Jordans everDoogles said:Kemps reebok kamikaze 2 is better than anything griffin will produce.
God I miss 90's basketball shoes. -
YRYKallpurpleallgold said:
Don't know how I forgot the Penny's. I loved the Kidds from like 96 too.
Still, the Kamikaze's are in the discussion. Definitely the best non-Nike shoe, although the Pumps had the best non-Nike shoe moment.
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FREE PUB!!!RaceBannon said:
Look Freme while you and Shane play grab ass I'm going 1 on 4 and winningThomasFremont said:RaceBannon said:
Emphasis on not.greenblood said:
I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.RaceBannon said:I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.
Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily
Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix
Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.
Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shitRaceBannon said:
Or.. he winsRoadDawg55 said:
Your basketball analysis consists of, "LeBron's gonna win because I really want him to."RaceBannon said:The Pistons broke up once they lost to the Bulls. The Knicks were the Knicks. The rest of the east was non existent. The NBA has always been top heavy. It's like none of you actually watch basketball.
A 4 year old in 1991 is telling me about Jordan
Easy does it with the triple posts, PLSSRaceBannon said:Lebron beat the Spurs. A better team than any one that Jordan faced
Sorry old man you got the HIV in this thread. -
It might just be a matter of preference, I prefer Kemp's TUFFness inside defensively and on the boreds. I agree Griffin is more skilled. His passing game is light years beyond anything Kemp could do. OTOH, he only averaged 1.9 offensive boards per game this year, which is shameful for a big who doesn't shoot threes. I'm not sure Blake's as bad an offensive rebounder as he showed this year but I'm not sure he's as good a passer either.RoadDawg55 said:
I knew you would disagree. Griffin has actually developed his game. Kemp had a decent mid range jumper, but he didn't have the skill Griffin does.dnc said:
If the steps Griffin took at the end of this year hold, then you'll be right. I think it was just a hot streak though, and if it was, no chance his peak will exceed Kemp's peak. Griffin's career should easily best Kemp's career, because cocaine.RoadDawg55 said:
Blake Griffin will end up a better player than Shawn Kemp. Sonics fans will disagree and Kemp was obviously good, but he's been overrated over time. If you use playoff success, Kemp only had one year he made it out of the 2nd round. Griffin is a lot better as a playmaker. Kemp was a little better rebounder and defender. It's a close call, but I would take Griffin if forced to choose.Doogles said:
Kemp was a beast. I choose him over barkley. People were scared of him. He was what Blake Griffin dreams of being.RaceBannon said:
Kemp was the best forward in the leaguegreenblood said:
WTF'd for listing Ainge and Kemp as hall of famers. Kemp may have been if cocaine hadn't have won. Ainge? You do realize he spent most of his career as a pretty good backup PG, right?SevenEleven said:
Everybody had two hall of famers during that era.RoadDawg55 said:
The Jazz had two hall of famers and won 64 and 62 games the two years they made the finals.greenblood said:
I might be a homer to some degree, but the 1992 Blazers with Drexler, Porter, Kersey, and Robinson has been long considered one of the best NBA teams in history NOT to win a championship.RaceBannon said:I will argue that claiming the East has been so bad all 5 years is dooging at its finest. Winners win and Lebron owns the East.
Same folks claim the pac 12 doesn't suck even though oregon wins it rather easily
Jordan beat a shitty West every year other than Phoenix
Why not just let the results stand? Jordan doesn't get blamed for 95 because he was playing baseball.
Pippen claiming he was a good as Lebron is what deserves shit
Hakeem and Clyde (later charles)
Barkley and kevin johnson
Drexler Ainge
Payton Kemp
NBA hall of fame doesnt mean shit
There's a reason stockton and malone never won shit. They were longevity stat-compilers, but not really all that outstanding. On top of that, they were just about ready to collect their social security checks when Jordan faced hem in the finals.
I'm assuming the Clips play at a much faster pace than those Sonics did, but I have no idea where to find tempo independent stats for the 90's. -
There were some great shoes in the 90's.
These aren't 90's shoes, but my all time favorite shoes to hoop in were these. I saw Kirk Hinrich wearing them when he played for Kansas. They aren't really that tight, but the feel of them.
Followed by
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You can look at their numbers per 100 possessions. Not a perfect statistic as there is too many variables to consider but it still gives a good rough estimate.
Kemp:
28.3 pts
16.6 reb
3.4 ast
2.3 stl
2.7 blk
4.9 tov
Kemp advanced stats:
.602 true shooting %
22.3 Win Shares
24.3 usage %
9.1 VORP (value over replacement player)
Griffin:
32.8 pts
12.2 reb
6.4 ast
1.5 stl
.8 blk
3.6 tov
Griffin advanced stats:
.569 true shooting %
21.2 Win Shares
28.7 usage %
8.4 VORP
So looking at the numbers both were very similar players. That said looking at the advanced stats Kemp was the better player during their age 24/25 seasons. Blake will probably have the better career because of coke and stuff though.
