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Mariners baby, hot stove edition

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  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 2,229
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    Winker and Toro to the Brewers for Kolten Wong…
    chuckdnc
  • chuckchuck Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 10,545
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    Swaye's Wigwam
    edited December 2022
    https://www.tsn.ca/seattle-mariners-milwaukee-brewers-jesse-winker-kolten-wong-trade-1.1887701

    Well, I didn't want Winker to be a failure and I have a feeling that contract year status is going to help him a lot this season.

    But...great trade. Unloaded two extraneous guys to upgrade a critical position. Fuck yeah.
    Fishpo31dnc
  • chuckchuck Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 10,545
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    Swaye's Wigwam
    So what do you think? Obviously Trea Turner is off the Ms board. Another OF/DH and some bullpen tinkering?

    They have to add one more. Is Gallo or Conforto really the best we can hope for?

    Know what I'd like to see? Trade Marco and keep Flexen as a long relief man and spot starter while you call up guys like Dollard and Hancock to take their turn in the rotation.

    That isn't happening though. Flexen is going somewhere.
  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 2,229
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    Apparently the ship has sailed on the big 4. Gallo is a NO for me, if my philosophy is to "own the zone". Same with Bellinger. Conforto is the guy for me, on a one-year "Boras Special"...Pop, can defend, plays hard, 29 yo. I think Conforto fits the mold of OF/DH that they are apparently seeking. Nimmo could be in the mix as well, but if you do that you turn the page on Kelenic, IMO.

    I think that getting Wong may open the door to re-visit bringing Mitch back as well. Benintendi is also an interesting name for me. If they aren't going to pay for a SS, they've got $$$ to spend...
    chuck
  • chuckchuck Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 10,545
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    Swaye's Wigwam
    edited December 2022
    Fishpo31 said:

    Apparently the ship has sailed on the big 4. Gallo is a NO for me, if my philosophy is to "own the zone". Same with Bellinger. Conforto is the guy for me, on a one-year "Boras Special"...Pop, can defend, plays hard, 29 yo. I think Conforto fits the mold of OF/DH that they are apparently seeking. Nimmo could be in the mix as well, but if you do that you turn the page on Kelenic, IMO.

    I think that getting Wong may open the door to re-visit bringing Mitch back as well. Benintendi is also an interesting name for me. If they aren't going to pay for a SS, they've got $$$ to spend...

    I like Benintendi. High BA, high obp, good defense. I've been favoring him slightly over the others mentioned to be honest. I'm a relic who still likes guys who hit for average.

    I'd be fine with Haniger though. Sign him or get someone and I'm relatively happy.
    Fishpo31
  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 2,229
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    edited December 2022
    Sounds like Dip might be kicking the tires on Bryan Reynolds, with Kelenic + others in return…
    chuck
  • chuckchuck Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 10,545
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    Fishpo31 said:

    Sounds like Dip might be kicking the tires on Bryan Reynolds, with Kelenic + others in return…

    What else happens in that hypothetical @Fishpo31? Do they need a Flexen? It seems the Pirates have been delusional in the past about what he could bring in a trade, and aren't at all interested in trading him when it comes down to it.

    Reynolds would probably be a solid or better LF. He has solid left/right splits. I like him. I'd rather keep Kelenic too since he's all but free and can hit home runs, and is probably a +defender in LF. Odds are though, that if Kelenic brought Reynolds in a trade it would be the best contribution he ever made to the Ms.

    I still feel that leaves an opening for a quality DH/platoon guy, especially if Kelenic is gone. I dont think that trade would justify NOT going after a one year rental power bat or even resigning Haniger to be part of a nice, 4 man dh/of rotation.
    Fishpo31
  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 2,229
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    Well, Reynolds requested to be traded, and we all know how that goes...Dip would probably have to knock their socks off, since he is (IIRC), 3 years from FA. He is pissed bc they locked up Ke'bryan Hayes long-term and not him. I think Kelenic's situation lies in whoever they bring in, can they get a decent platoon out of it. If they get an everyday LF, then that goes away, and Reynolds may be that, as is Nimmo, IMO. I see Conforto more in the LF/DH role, and Mitch(?) could fill that from the right side. I think it's too early to give up on Kelenic, but the clock is ticking...

    Maybe look at Marco, he could go and be their "Ace", and paid accordingly. I think that Flexen has more value to the M's than Marco (although I like what Marco brings)...Flexen can be a swing guy, so they could run him out in the 5 spot until Hancock (or Brash) is ready, and he could be the "6th starter/Pen guy". I'm becoming more convinced that good teams have to have a guy(s) like that (see: Astros).

    Another thing I've been chewing on... I wouldn't be shocked if Dip is still in on a SS, and if he gets one, he packages Wong or JP (whichever one they like least) to get some more.
    chuckFireTheJanitor
  • chuckchuck Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 10,545
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    Swaye's Wigwam
    Fishpo31 said:



    Maybe look at Marco, he could go and be their "Ace", and paid accordingly. I think that Flexen has more value to the M's than Marco (although I like what Marco brings)...Flexen can be a swing guy, so they could run him out in the 5 spot until Hancock (or Brash) is ready, and he could be the "6th starter/Pen guy". I'm becoming more convinced that good teams have to have a guy(s) like that (see: Astros).

    Another thing I've been chewing on... I wouldn't be shocked if Dip is still in on a SS, and if he gets one, he packages Wong or JP (whichever one they like least) to get some more.

    Those two paragraphs make a rise in my moog sweatpants. I've thought about the exact same stuff today. Flexen would beworth every penny the Ms would pay him IMO and I question whether they can get equal value for him.

    The other issues are the two pretty questionable contracts that Dip signed with JP and Marco. They're both about to be paid a fair amount more than their production justifies. Crawford is one of my favorite dudes, but he's become a bit of a bump in the road for the Ms in terms of roster building.
    Fishpo31FireTheJanitor
  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 2,229
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    Yes, they both were signed to contracts that represented their roles, at that time. In reality, there is a large chunk of MLB players that are essentially place-holders, and “we” like them in the moment, as we should, but they are all on borrowed time, until the young guy is ready, or a trade is made. Marco was the ace, and now is an iffy 5. JP was (and is, frankly), an average Major League SS. Not an all star, but a consistent performer…Marco as well. There is value there, but you upgrade when you can…

    They have been leaders, but they know the deal…
    chuckFireTheJanitor
  • chuckchuck Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 10,545
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    Verlander to the Mets for two years, $43 million per. Jesus. Houston was wise not to play along.
    Fishpo31
  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 2,229
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    chuck said:

    Verlander to the Mets for two years, $43 million per. Jesus. Houston was wise not to play along.

    If he toes the rubber 60 times in two years, $1.4mm per start…at 100 pitches per game, $14,000 per pitch. Nice work if you can get it…ok, I am done with maff for the month…
    chuck
  • chuckchuck Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 10,545
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    Turner to Philly for 11 years, $300 million.

    No way he resembles the same player at age 40, but it sounds like they went the long route rather than the same total value for less years for a reason. Basically accepting they'll be signing $27.5 million checks for a few years after he's well past his prime rather than closer to $40 mill for eight years.
    Fishpo31
  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 2,229
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    chuck said:

    Turner to Philly for 11 years, $300 million.

    No way he resembles the same player at age 40, but it sounds like they went the long route rather than the same total value for less years for a reason. Basically accepting they'll be signing $27.5 million checks for a few years after he's well past his prime rather than closer to $40 mill for eight years.

    Their window is now, and Dombrowski is shooting his shot…they will have a decade to discuss the success or failure of his plan. Would have loved to see him with the M’s…

    chuck
  • chuckchuck Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 10,545
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    Swaye's Wigwam
    Fishpo31 said:

    chuck said:

    Turner to Philly for 11 years, $300 million.

    No way he resembles the same player at age 40, but it sounds like they went the long route rather than the same total value for less years for a reason. Basically accepting they'll be signing $27.5 million checks for a few years after he's well past his prime rather than closer to $40 mill for eight years.

    Their window is now, and Dombrowski is shooting his shot…they will have a decade to discuss the success or failure of his plan. Would have loved to see him with the M’s…

    Me too, but I don't think that's a winning strategy for the Ms unless they're ready to shift gears long term and jack their payroll cap by about 50-75 million per year. Turner (plus Julio) with Gilbert, Kirby, France and Raleigh would always be a good foundation, but they'll have to eventually pay those guys or equivalent too, plus supplement seasonally like they're doing now, or they'll just hover on the fringe of the playoffs.

    It'd be great if they were willing to start spending like the big boys. To me it seems like the revenue to pay for it is there for the taking. They have a huge bandwagon. Not one printed word I've read from Dipoto has indicated they were going that route though
    Fishpo31
  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 2,229
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    Haniger to the Giants, 3 years 43.5mm
    chuck
  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 2,229
    5 Up Votes First Anniversary 5 Awesomes First Comment
    chuck said:

    Fishpo31 said:

    chuck said:

    Turner to Philly for 11 years, $300 million.

    No way he resembles the same player at age 40, but it sounds like they went the long route rather than the same total value for less years for a reason. Basically accepting they'll be signing $27.5 million checks for a few years after he's well past his prime rather than closer to $40 mill for eight years.

    Their window is now, and Dombrowski is shooting his shot…they will have a decade to discuss the success or failure of his plan. Would have loved to see him with the M’s…

    Me too, but I don't think that's a winning strategy for the Ms unless they're ready to shift gears long term and jack their payroll cap by about 50-75 million per year. Turner (plus Julio) with Gilbert, Kirby, France and Raleigh would always be a good foundation, but they'll have to eventually pay those guys or equivalent too, plus supplement seasonally like they're doing now, or they'll just hover on the fringe of the playoffs.

    It'd be great if they were willing to start spending like the big boys. To me it seems like the revenue to pay for it is there for the taking. They have a huge bandwagon. Not one printed word I've read from Dipoto has indicated they were going that route though
    They have the core in place, and that changes the thinking a little bit. They play well together, as a team. To pay a truckload of cash to an established star looks great, but could mess with the vibe in the clubhouse. I think Turner and Swanson would be good fits in that way, but Correa is a little too edgy historically for me.

    When you've got a good thing going, trying to go for the kill shot can fuck everything up, for years, if it's not the right guy...
    chuckFireTheJanitor
  • chuckchuck Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 10,545
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    Fishpo31 said:

    chuck said:

    Fishpo31 said:

    chuck said:

    Turner to Philly for 11 years, $300 million.

    No way he resembles the same player at age 40, but it sounds like they went the long route rather than the same total value for less years for a reason. Basically accepting they'll be signing $27.5 million checks for a few years after he's well past his prime rather than closer to $40 mill for eight years.

    Their window is now, and Dombrowski is shooting his shot…they will have a decade to discuss the success or failure of his plan. Would have loved to see him with the M’s…

    Me too, but I don't think that's a winning strategy for the Ms unless they're ready to shift gears long term and jack their payroll cap by about 50-75 million per year. Turner (plus Julio) with Gilbert, Kirby, France and Raleigh would always be a good foundation, but they'll have to eventually pay those guys or equivalent too, plus supplement seasonally like they're doing now, or they'll just hover on the fringe of the playoffs.

    It'd be great if they were willing to start spending like the big boys. To me it seems like the revenue to pay for it is there for the taking. They have a huge bandwagon. Not one printed word I've read from Dipoto has indicated they were going that route though
    They have the core in place, and that changes the thinking a little bit. They play well together, as a team. To pay a truckload of cash to an established star looks great, but could mess with the vibe in the clubhouse. I think Turner and Swanson would be good fits in that way, but Correa is a little too edgy historically for me.

    When you've got a good thing going, trying to go for the kill shot can fuck everything up, for years, if it's not the right guy...
    I was never big on the idea of paying a new guy $300 million plus over 8-10 years. I think that eventually becomes a disaster and a 4-5 year program setback.

    What I am in favor of is them being willing to pay out another, I don't know, $25 mil per season and improve by two high ceiling bats. Dipoto seems to be setting everyone up to accept less than that, which sucks. It seems like more there's some rationalization of cheapness going on.

    All talk though. I don't really know what they're doing.
    Fishpo31RoadDawg55FireTheJanitordnc
  • chuckchuck Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 10,545
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    edited December 2022
    Well, the Yanks sign Judge, the Red Sox try to sign everyone (snagged the guy from Japan) and the Ms add a couple of rule 5 draft picks. No fun at all.

    Oh yeah and picked Sadler back up on a minor league deal.

    Clarke looks like a good pickup. Ground ball inducing stuff, low walks. I bet he's useful.
    FireTheJanitor
  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 2,229
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    Sounds like they are in the race on Nimmo.
    FireTheJanitordncchuck
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