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Mariners baby, hot stove edition
chuck
Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 11,671 
TSIO. Tume for a new thread. Here's a primer:
Seattle Sports: What’s the next step for Mariners’ George Kirby after big rookie season?.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1683159/whats-the-next-step-for-mariners-george-kirby-after-big-rookie-season/
Thanks Taft.
I dont think there's a better trio of power right handed starters than Castillo, Gilbert and Kirby. One is already an acez and the other two are on his heels. If you like starting pitching and these three stay healthy, this is about as good as it's ever going to get.
Seattle Sports: What’s the next step for Mariners’ George Kirby after big rookie season?.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1683159/whats-the-next-step-for-mariners-george-kirby-after-big-rookie-season/
Thanks Taft.
I dont think there's a better trio of power right handed starters than Castillo, Gilbert and Kirby. One is already an acez and the other two are on his heels. If you like starting pitching and these three stay healthy, this is about as good as it's ever going to get.
Comments
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thanks ChuckHIV!
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I like to dream how badly people will lose their shit (in the negative..."CHEATER!") when Dip signs Correa...
But seriously, folks, I think it could come down to Correa and Turner. Turner worries me slightly. He's a premium freak athletically, but I see a lot of coasting in how he plays (Why does he do it? Because he CAN)...I watched him a lot, and several times down the stretch he would just kick plays, with his base running as well, just bone-headed stuff that a polished top-end pro would never do. On the up side, Perry Hill could coach that out of him. He is one of the best infield coaches on the planet. Dependent upon the bazillion $$$ the Dodgers will attempt to throw at Judge. If Judge re-ups with NY, Turner will be a Dodger, IMO.
Correa can really play, and plays with an edge...would be interesting to see how that plays with chemistry, and the fact that, at age 21, Julio has become the leader of the clubhouse.
I feel that Swanson will stay with ATL. He's a Jaw-jaw guy, and to someone living the majority of his life in the souf, Seattle is another country, if not another planet...
If the Red Sox don't re-sign Bogaerts to build around, they may be running flea markets at Fenway.
In other news, I'm eagerly awaiting the next bullpen gem(s) that Dip uncovers...as Bob Lemon once said, "The two most important things in life are good friends and a strong bullpen"...
I expect Robbie Ray to bounce back next year, and for me there is room for Marco / Flexen. They both bring good stuff to the table, and six guys that can start is almost a necessity now-a-days. Start Hancock in Tacoma, and bring him up if needed / when ready...he goes into last year's Gilbert / this year's Kirby role...
If you bring in Nimmo, who plays CF? Michael Conforto may be worth a call, if they let Mitch walk...
Irregardless, Scott Boras is pricing mega yachts as I type this... -
I haven't watched LA or Boston enough to have a fully formed opinion on which SS I'd prefer. Turner is an impressive, smooth athlete for sure. Honestly any of the first three would be fine with me.
If that's what they're doing at SS then they have to try to resign Haniger to a reasonable 3 year deal since they wouldn't have another $25mill+ available for an outfielder over multiple years. I'd rather see them lock in more of the young core beyond their club control years. -
Are the M's going to get rid of Frazier? That guy shouldn't be hitting on a AAA-roster, let alone in the bigs.
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He's a good hitter that had a down year...almost 40 points below career average. If they sign a SS, they replace him with JP, which would be a wash when looking at last year, but Frazier's track record offensively is better overall...I don't think they necessarily should re-sign Frazier, but there are definitely worse guys out there...BleachedAnusDawg said:Are the M's going to get rid of Frazier? That guy shouldn't be hitting on a AAA-roster, let alone in the bigs.
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A real second baseman catches that bloop single by Pena that allowed Alcarez to come up in game two and hit the go-ahed homer. His effort, especially given the situation, really frustrated me.Fishpo31 said:
He's a good hitter that had a down year...almost 40 points below career average. If they sign a SS, they replace him with JP, which would be a wash when looking at last year, but Frazier's track record offensively is better overall...I don't think they necessarily should re-sign Frazier, but there are definitely worse guys out there...BleachedAnusDawg said:Are the M's going to get rid of Frazier? That guy shouldn't be hitting on a AAA-roster, let alone in the bigs.
I agree hes a better hitter than he showed, but hes not a real good on base guy and doesnt have the power to hit anything out of Safeco. The best you can hope for from him is a .300 average and slightly higher obp with 2-3 homers and a handful of doubles. I think Crawford qould make a better 2b, with similar #s a around and a little more power.. -
Is Pittsburgh a hitter-friendly park? I know the narrative is that Safeco is where hitters stats go to die, but he just seemed like a guy who should only see the field when the starter takes a day off. I admittedly do not follow the team super closely, but paid more attention this year and down the stretch.Fishpo31 said:
He's a good hitter that had a down year...almost 40 points below career average. If they sign a SS, they replace him with JP, which would be a wash when looking at last year, but Frazier's track record offensively is better overall...I don't think they necessarily should re-sign Frazier, but there are definitely worse guys out there...BleachedAnusDawg said:Are the M's going to get rid of Frazier? That guy shouldn't be hitting on a AAA-roster, let alone in the bigs.
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It is for power. I think the shift rules for next year will help him, and many other LHH. I recall him hitting quite a few seeds right at the rover this year. Not an endorsement to bring him back, just what I remember…BleachedAnusDawg said:
Is Pittsburgh a hitter-friendly park? I know the narrative is that Safeco is where hitters stats go to die, but he just seemed like a guy who should only see the field when the starter takes a day off. I admittedly do not follow the team super closely, but paid more attention this year and down the stretch.Fishpo31 said:
He's a good hitter that had a down year...almost 40 points below career average. If they sign a SS, they replace him with JP, which would be a wash when looking at last year, but Frazier's track record offensively is better overall...I don't think they necessarily should re-sign Frazier, but there are definitely worse guys out there...BleachedAnusDawg said:Are the M's going to get rid of Frazier? That guy shouldn't be hitting on a AAA-roster, let alone in the bigs.
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They're missing the playoffs next year.
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Bump for Julio. It was almost a given, but good tosser it official.
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Mariners trade Swanson and a prospect for Teoscar Hernandez.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/35039628/mariners-trade-2-pitchers-blue-jays-teoscar-hernandez -
Sweet! Surprising. Flexen would've helped on the salary front, but now that they got their first outfielder without him they're in a position to choose what they expect to get back. It may not need to be a ready made player even. Prospects, or draft picks, or a good, established relief would be fine.BleachedAnusDawg said:Mariners trade Swanson and a prospect for Teoscar Hernandez.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/35039628/mariners-trade-2-pitchers-blue-jays-teoscar-hernandez
I predict one of two things. I assume Kelenic is staying and Winker is getting traded.
1) They sign Haniger and Jean Segura
or
2) They sign one of the big 4 shortstops, let Haniger leave, and anything else that happens involves relief pitching, prospects, draft considerations, etc. -
I have no idea what Dip will do, but here is a scenario...
Teoscar = Haniger, TYFYS Mitch...
IF all in on the big 4...
Left-Field Platoon, status quo...Winker has history...can he get it back? .270 / 24 HR /.370 OBP (career numbers)
I know Kelenic's ship has sailed for a lot of people, but his tools are plus-plus. Did anyone know who Jeremy Pena was this time last year? I didn't. A 25 YO rookie...Kelenic is 23. It takes time, and the art of this is deciding when it it is time. If he is moving in a positive direction (I think he is, slowly), one more shot is warranted. The Dodgers gave up Jordan Alvarez (for Josh Fields) as a throw in after a few development guys didn't like his swing...
They are in the process (or have already completed it) of figuring out...
Is Winker's deal injuries? Attitude? Work ethic? Combo? Known commodity with an outlier year, or...?
Has Kelenic done enough to warrant a last look? Huge upside if he hits
Can Lewis stay healthy on a last-chance deal? History says no
And, most importantly, what is the trade value of the three...
You only really need to find one you like, because of the flexibility of Moore/Haggerty. I stand that Haggerty is not an everyday player, because you can't play with your hair on fire for six months, and stay healthy.
If they are unable to get one of "the big 4", go get a bat for LF (Nimmo, Conforto, and others), and find a solid 2nd baseman (much easier and cheaper than a SS).
I think Segura is a non-starter (from what I've heard), they let him go the first time because he was a bad clubhouse guy.
Re-stock the bullpen with guys no one has ever heard of that are filthy
ATBS, I have no idea what they are thinking, but it's fun to watch...
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I feel like this was such a great trade because it made their situation more flexible, not less.
Winker could come back. Honestly I'd rather he stayed. Him at 2021 levels would've been enough of an upgrade on its own. But...they don't need him as of right now.
Kelenic shouldn't be going anywhere either imo. One more go round for him. He's too fast, has too much potential as a fielder with a strong arm, and has too much power to give up on at this stage...while he's all but free.
Haniger can still fit with Hernandez. I think that, if they fall out of the big four SS sweepstakes as expected, they try to get him back.
That doesnt leave many options for second base. How about sign Jose Abreau and move France into a 2b/1b/dh platoon?
Segura is the only 2b out there that I know of. Any other ideas? -
Free agent 2nd basemen are thin. Another thing is that they have become pretty RH heavy. Sounds like Dip likes Kolten Wong (LHH with some pop and speed)...I like this, but I have loved Wong since I saw him in high school.
I don't think France is athletic enough to play in the middle, but that's just me. I think they trade for a 2B if they lose the SS sweepstakes, which I expect them to, but I never expected them to sign Robbie Ray or trade for Castillo, either. I think Mitch returning is dependent on getting a LH bat...if he can't, Mitch / Teoscar are redundant, although Mitch is a better defender.
I would expect nothing substantial until the SS thing is settled. Dip fired the first shot, no he has to grind, and read the room. -
Good points as always. I wasn't thinking about how right handed of a lineup I was building.
Again though, I won't complain one bit if they let Winker have another go. It's a contract year for him and he sounds exactly like the kind of guy who can up his effort while still not working all that hard.. Who knows?
My favorite scenario is that they sign one of the shortstops and take a chance that Winker turns it around as a platoon DH/LF -
And...Kyle Lewis to the DBacks for a catcher /outfielder with no real MLB time...I trust Dip
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I always forget about Lewis. Yeah I'd take just about anyone with possible upside for him.
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How the hell did you know this before 5? Damn.Fishpo31 said:And...Kyle Lewis to the DBacks for a catcher /outfielder with no real MLB time...I trust Dip
You also look to be all over the Wong thing and there's smoke.
https://reviewingthebrew.com/posts/brewers-rumors-mariners-trade-interest-kolten-wong
Love it. Flexen and someone brings a legit 2b. Hell yes. -
Winker and Toro to the Brewers for Kolten Wong…
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https://www.tsn.ca/seattle-mariners-milwaukee-brewers-jesse-winker-kolten-wong-trade-1.1887701
Well, I didn't want Winker to be a failure and I have a feeling that contract year status is going to help him a lot this season.
But...great trade. Unloaded two extraneous guys to upgrade a critical position. Fuck yeah. -
So what do you think? Obviously Trea Turner is off the Ms board. Another OF/DH and some bullpen tinkering?
They have to add one more. Is Gallo or Conforto really the best we can hope for?
Know what I'd like to see? Trade Marco and keep Flexen as a long relief man and spot starter while you call up guys like Dollard and Hancock to take their turn in the rotation.
That isn't happening though. Flexen is going somewhere. -
Apparently the ship has sailed on the big 4. Gallo is a NO for me, if my philosophy is to "own the zone". Same with Bellinger. Conforto is the guy for me, on a one-year "Boras Special"...Pop, can defend, plays hard, 29 yo. I think Conforto fits the mold of OF/DH that they are apparently seeking. Nimmo could be in the mix as well, but if you do that you turn the page on Kelenic, IMO.
I think that getting Wong may open the door to re-visit bringing Mitch back as well. Benintendi is also an interesting name for me. If they aren't going to pay for a SS, they've got $$$ to spend... -
I like Benintendi. High BA, high obp, good defense. I've been favoring him slightly over the others mentioned to be honest. I'm a relic who still likes guys who hit for average.Fishpo31 said:Apparently the ship has sailed on the big 4. Gallo is a NO for me, if my philosophy is to "own the zone". Same with Bellinger. Conforto is the guy for me, on a one-year "Boras Special"...Pop, can defend, plays hard, 29 yo. I think Conforto fits the mold of OF/DH that they are apparently seeking. Nimmo could be in the mix as well, but if you do that you turn the page on Kelenic, IMO.
I think that getting Wong may open the door to re-visit bringing Mitch back as well. Benintendi is also an interesting name for me. If they aren't going to pay for a SS, they've got $$$ to spend...
I'd be fine with Haniger though. Sign him or get someone and I'm relatively happy. -
Sounds like Dip might be kicking the tires on Bryan Reynolds, with Kelenic + others in return…
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What else happens in that hypothetical @Fishpo31? Do they need a Flexen? It seems the Pirates have been delusional in the past about what he could bring in a trade, and aren't at all interested in trading him when it comes down to it.Fishpo31 said:Sounds like Dip might be kicking the tires on Bryan Reynolds, with Kelenic + others in return…
Reynolds would probably be a solid or better LF. He has solid left/right splits. I like him. I'd rather keep Kelenic too since he's all but free and can hit home runs, and is probably a +defender in LF. Odds are though, that if Kelenic brought Reynolds in a trade it would be the best contribution he ever made to the Ms.
I still feel that leaves an opening for a quality DH/platoon guy, especially if Kelenic is gone. I dont think that trade would justify NOT going after a one year rental power bat or even resigning Haniger to be part of a nice, 4 man dh/of rotation. -
Well, Reynolds requested to be traded, and we all know how that goes...Dip would probably have to knock their socks off, since he is (IIRC), 3 years from FA. He is pissed bc they locked up Ke'bryan Hayes long-term and not him. I think Kelenic's situation lies in whoever they bring in, can they get a decent platoon out of it. If they get an everyday LF, then that goes away, and Reynolds may be that, as is Nimmo, IMO. I see Conforto more in the LF/DH role, and Mitch(?) could fill that from the right side. I think it's too early to give up on Kelenic, but the clock is ticking...
Maybe look at Marco, he could go and be their "Ace", and paid accordingly. I think that Flexen has more value to the M's than Marco (although I like what Marco brings)...Flexen can be a swing guy, so they could run him out in the 5 spot until Hancock (or Brash) is ready, and he could be the "6th starter/Pen guy". I'm becoming more convinced that good teams have to have a guy(s) like that (see: Astros).
Another thing I've been chewing on... I wouldn't be shocked if Dip is still in on a SS, and if he gets one, he packages Wong or JP (whichever one they like least) to get some more. -
Those two paragraphs make a rise in my moog sweatpants. I've thought about the exact same stuff today. Flexen would beworth every penny the Ms would pay him IMO and I question whether they can get equal value for him.Fishpo31 said:
Maybe look at Marco, he could go and be their "Ace", and paid accordingly. I think that Flexen has more value to the M's than Marco (although I like what Marco brings)...Flexen can be a swing guy, so they could run him out in the 5 spot until Hancock (or Brash) is ready, and he could be the "6th starter/Pen guy". I'm becoming more convinced that good teams have to have a guy(s) like that (see: Astros).
Another thing I've been chewing on... I wouldn't be shocked if Dip is still in on a SS, and if he gets one, he packages Wong or JP (whichever one they like least) to get some more.
The other issues are the two pretty questionable contracts that Dip signed with JP and Marco. They're both about to be paid a fair amount more than their production justifies. Crawford is one of my favorite dudes, but he's become a bit of a bump in the road for the Ms in terms of roster building. -
Yes, they both were signed to contracts that represented their roles, at that time. In reality, there is a large chunk of MLB players that are essentially place-holders, and “we” like them in the moment, as we should, but they are all on borrowed time, until the young guy is ready, or a trade is made. Marco was the ace, and now is an iffy 5. JP was (and is, frankly), an average Major League SS. Not an all star, but a consistent performer…Marco as well. There is value there, but you upgrade when you can…
They have been leaders, but they know the deal…
