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The Chump Effect
Comments
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Who are you pretending the strawman is when you fuck it in the ass Kobe?TheKobeStopper said:
You really think “why should I pay taxes for something I don’t use” is a heavyweight argument. That’s wild.SFGbob said:
You won't answer because you're lightweight and a coward but why the fuck do you feel you have an entitlement to the labor of others for choices you made? Why should people who never attended college be paying for your student loan debt? Why should someone who went to Community College and then to a public school because they couldn't afford a private university be paying the student loan debt of someone who chose a private liberal arts school?TheKobeStopper said:
I’m not convinced that the people saying we shouldn’t do it because they already paid, aren’t just right wingers who would oppose it regardless.HHusky said:
I’m sympathetic. We spent a shitload of money sending three kids to college. There should be some recognition of that for people of moderate means who paid outrageous sums.TheKobeStopper said:There is nothing that came be done that won’t make some people mad. What a stupid argument.
I do think there’s lot of people like you, who could support it but feel it’s unfair. And, for the record, it is unfair.
I don’t know what you mean by “recognition”. I would say by cancelling the debt we are acknowledging that the people before got a raw deal. I don’t think any kind of compensation is on the table because the right would scream about how are we going to pay for that and dems don’t have the courage to stand up to that nonsense.
It's fucking outrageous that this is even being considered. -
Translation: I am obsessed.SFGbob said:
Yeah, you can always tell when you've hit a nerve with the Dazzler.NorthwestFresh said:
MELTDOWN commencing...HHusky said:
What a sad, obsessed little man you are, blob. Like most tax benefits provided to people of moderate means--you'll recall I said that--I wouldn't be likely to benefit, nor was I proposing that I do anything but pay.SFGbob said:
So a guy who never went to college but started his own plumbing business or HVAC repair and installation service is paying just as much if not more in taxes as you are Dazzler and they are actually providing a useful service to society unlike you who is leaching upon society and giving shitty legal representation to the suckers you call clients.HHusky said:
I’m thinking I’ll be paying a lot more for this than “normal joe”. “normal joe” doesn’t make so much that he pays a ton of federal income tax. The bad policies that led us to this point are spilled milk.PurpleThrobber said:
Work it off. What other 'debt relief' are you planning on pawning off on normal working joe taxpayer?HHusky said:
My comment was based on the assumption that there will be some student loan debt relief. I think that’s a virtual certainty, don’t you? If it comes, I think parents who sacrificed to send kids to school in recent years should also get some relief.SFGbob said:
I recognize it, now do you feel better? But no fucking way should other taxpayers be subsidizing you for the choices you made. This is a slap in the face to people who chose not to go to college and those of us who paid our own way through college.HHusky said:
I’m sympathetic. We spent a shitload of money sending three kids to college. There should be some recognition of that for people of moderate means who paid outrageous sums.TheKobeStopper said:There is nothing that came be done that won’t make some people mad. What a stupid argument.
Why should I or anyone else be subsidizing someone who chose to go to an expensive private college or for that matter any college? Should the guy who works as a plumber really be subsidizing the gender studies major that went to Oberlin?
Parents who paid for English Lit degrees are dumbfucks. Same dumbfuck parents who think 5'2" Johnny should be on the varsity basketball team because he loves the game so much and they paid for private coaching sessions.
Dumbfucks.
He shouldn't be subsidizing you because you chose to pay for your kid's college. You made that choice. Quit you're fucking bitching and get your hand out of other people's pockets in order to pay for the choices you made. -
Yeah, exposing you for the hypocritical piece crap you are is a clear sign of obsession.HHusky said:
Translation: I am obsessed.SFGbob said:
Yeah, you can always tell when you've hit a nerve with the Dazzler.NorthwestFresh said:
MELTDOWN commencing...HHusky said:
What a sad, obsessed little man you are, blob. Like most tax benefits provided to people of moderate means--you'll recall I said that--I wouldn't be likely to benefit, nor was I proposing that I do anything but pay.SFGbob said:
So a guy who never went to college but started his own plumbing business or HVAC repair and installation service is paying just as much if not more in taxes as you are Dazzler and they are actually providing a useful service to society unlike you who is leaching upon society and giving shitty legal representation to the suckers you call clients.HHusky said:
I’m thinking I’ll be paying a lot more for this than “normal joe”. “normal joe” doesn’t make so much that he pays a ton of federal income tax. The bad policies that led us to this point are spilled milk.PurpleThrobber said:
Work it off. What other 'debt relief' are you planning on pawning off on normal working joe taxpayer?HHusky said:
My comment was based on the assumption that there will be some student loan debt relief. I think that’s a virtual certainty, don’t you? If it comes, I think parents who sacrificed to send kids to school in recent years should also get some relief.SFGbob said:
I recognize it, now do you feel better? But no fucking way should other taxpayers be subsidizing you for the choices you made. This is a slap in the face to people who chose not to go to college and those of us who paid our own way through college.HHusky said:
I’m sympathetic. We spent a shitload of money sending three kids to college. There should be some recognition of that for people of moderate means who paid outrageous sums.TheKobeStopper said:There is nothing that came be done that won’t make some people mad. What a stupid argument.
Why should I or anyone else be subsidizing someone who chose to go to an expensive private college or for that matter any college? Should the guy who works as a plumber really be subsidizing the gender studies major that went to Oberlin?
Parents who paid for English Lit degrees are dumbfucks. Same dumbfuck parents who think 5'2" Johnny should be on the varsity basketball team because he loves the game so much and they paid for private coaching sessions.
Dumbfucks.
He shouldn't be subsidizing you because you chose to pay for your kid's college. You made that choice. Quit you're fucking bitching and get your hand out of other people's pockets in order to pay for the choices you made. -
IDNGAF how much you think or want to pay.HHusky said:
I’m thinking I’ll be paying a lot more for this than “normal joe”. “normal joe” doesn’t make so much that he pays a ton of federal income tax. The bad policies that led us to this point are spilled milk.PurpleThrobber said:
Work it off. What other 'debt relief' are you planning on pawning off on normal working joe taxpayer?HHusky said:
My comment was based on the assumption that there will be some student loan debt relief. I think that’s a virtual certainty, don’t you? If it comes, I think parents who sacrificed to send kids to school in recent years should also get some relief.SFGbob said:
I recognize it, now do you feel better? But no fucking way should other taxpayers be subsidizing you for the choices you made. This is a slap in the face to people who chose not to go to college and those of us who paid our own way through college.HHusky said:
I’m sympathetic. We spent a shitload of money sending three kids to college. There should be some recognition of that for people of moderate means who paid outrageous sums.TheKobeStopper said:There is nothing that came be done that won’t make some people mad. What a stupid argument.
Why should I or anyone else be subsidizing someone who chose to go to an expensive private college or for that matter any college? Should the guy who works as a plumber really be subsidizing the gender studies major that went to Oberlin?
Parents who paid for English Lit degrees are dumbfucks. Same dumbfuck parents who think 5'2" Johnny should be on the varsity basketball team because he loves the game so much and they paid for private coaching sessions.
Dumbfucks.
Rewarding shitty choices begats more shitty choices.
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No. Or any major at any college.SFGbob said:
I recognize it, now do you feel better? But no fucking way should other taxpayers be subsidizing you for the choices you made. This is a slap in the face to people who chose not to go to college and those of us who paid our own way through college.HHusky said:
I’m sympathetic. We spent a shitload of money sending three kids to college. There should be some recognition of that for people of moderate means who paid outrageous sums.TheKobeStopper said:There is nothing that came be done that won’t make some people mad. What a stupid argument.
Why should I or anyone else be subsidizing someone who chose to go to an expensive private college or for that matter any college? Should the guy who works as a plumber really be subsidizing the gender studies major that went to Oberlin?
Loan forgiveness is a problem on many other levels than just annoying those of us who sacrificed to make it happen for ourselves and our kids.
HHusky did acknowledge this point. I assume he didn't mean "acknowledge" as in, a pat on the back. But rather through some kind of monetary compensation. Otherwise, IDRGAF who acknowledges anything. -
Exactly. I proposed reaching back a few years and giving a tax credit to cost of attendance paying parents of moderate means (or less).creepycoug said:
No. Or any major at any college.SFGbob said:
I recognize it, now do you feel better? But no fucking way should other taxpayers be subsidizing you for the choices you made. This is a slap in the face to people who chose not to go to college and those of us who paid our own way through college.HHusky said:
I’m sympathetic. We spent a shitload of money sending three kids to college. There should be some recognition of that for people of moderate means who paid outrageous sums.TheKobeStopper said:There is nothing that came be done that won’t make some people mad. What a stupid argument.
Why should I or anyone else be subsidizing someone who chose to go to an expensive private college or for that matter any college? Should the guy who works as a plumber really be subsidizing the gender studies major that went to Oberlin?
Loan forgiveness is a problem on many other levels than just annoying those of us who sacrificed to make it happen for ourselves and our kids.
HHusky did acknowledge this point. I assume he didn't mean "acknowledge" as in, a pat on the back. But rather through some kind of monetary compensation. Otherwise, IDRGAF who acknowledges anything. -
Because the users entered into legal contract to pay back an obligation they incurred on their own volition.TheKobeStopper said:
You really think “why should I pay taxes for something I don’t use” is a heavyweight argument. That’s wild.SFGbob said:
You won't answer because you're lightweight and a coward but why the fuck do you feel you have an entitlement to the labor of others for choices you made? Why should people who never attended college be paying for your student loan debt? Why should someone who went to Community College and then to a public school because they couldn't afford a private university be paying the student loan debt of someone who chose a private liberal arts school?TheKobeStopper said:
I’m not convinced that the people saying we shouldn’t do it because they already paid, aren’t just right wingers who would oppose it regardless.HHusky said:
I’m sympathetic. We spent a shitload of money sending three kids to college. There should be some recognition of that for people of moderate means who paid outrageous sums.TheKobeStopper said:There is nothing that came be done that won’t make some people mad. What a stupid argument.
I do think there’s lot of people like you, who could support it but feel it’s unfair. And, for the record, it is unfair.
I don’t know what you mean by “recognition”. I would say by cancelling the debt we are acknowledging that the people before got a raw deal. I don’t think any kind of compensation is on the table because the right would scream about how are we going to pay for that and dems don’t have the courage to stand up to that nonsense.
It's fucking outrageous that this is even being considered.
The repayment source for the services provided were to be the future earnings of the borrower or the collateral/cash flow of the guarantor.
It has nothing to do with taxes. That's the point.
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PAY MY MORTGAGE DUCK
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Wait. First, I need to take out a home equity LOC and get Chip/Joanna to do a makeover.RaceBannon said:PAY MY MORTGAGE DUCK
THEN.....
PAY MY MORTGAGE, DUCK!!
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I presume some sort of executive order is also coming then to allow the debt write-off to not count as income then too?
IRS is about to get weaponized again I suspect. -
There is no problem with student loans and tuition in this country. What there is a problem with is people making bad financial decisions, and doing so knowing full well what kind of payments they are going to have to make after graduating. These are the last people on the planet who deserves a bailout. If you fucked up, go file for bankruptcy or suck it up. You put yourself in this mess, now pull yourself out.
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The government subsidizing the loans is the main cause of what has caused the cost to skyrocket. So yes there’s a problem there.Fenderbender123 said:There is no problem with student loans and tuition in this country. What there is a problem with is people making bad financial decisions, and doing so knowing full well what kind of payments they are going to have to make after graduating. These are the last people on the planet who deserves a bailout. If you fucked up, go file for bankruptcy or suck it up. You put yourself in this mess, now pull yourself out.
Some bad decisions made at a lot of levels, wonder what % of debtors learned how to calculate a basic ROI. -
It's that so many choose a degree that has a 0% chance of getting them a good paying job.Bob_C said:
The government subsidizing the loans is the main cause of what has caused the cost to skyrocket. So yes there’s a problem there.Fenderbender123 said:There is no problem with student loans and tuition in this country. What there is a problem with is people making bad financial decisions, and doing so knowing full well what kind of payments they are going to have to make after graduating. These are the last people on the planet who deserves a bailout. If you fucked up, go file for bankruptcy or suck it up. You put yourself in this mess, now pull yourself out.
Some bad decisions made at a lot of levels, wonder what % of debtors learned how to calculate a basic ROI. -
For sure. Also doing away with the bankruptcy protections for lenders would help clean this up as well. Would force the interest rates to much higher natural market levels if there was bigger risk in the lending. Would help to cripple the out of whack demand.Sledog said:
It's that so many choose a degree that has a 0% chance of getting them a good paying job.Bob_C said:
The government subsidizing the loans is the main cause of what has caused the cost to skyrocket. So yes there’s a problem there.Fenderbender123 said:There is no problem with student loans and tuition in this country. What there is a problem with is people making bad financial decisions, and doing so knowing full well what kind of payments they are going to have to make after graduating. These are the last people on the planet who deserves a bailout. If you fucked up, go file for bankruptcy or suck it up. You put yourself in this mess, now pull yourself out.
Some bad decisions made at a lot of levels, wonder what % of debtors learned how to calculate a basic ROI.
The living expenses being covered by loans is part of the issue too. I knew people that were getting like $7k/quarter in cash from the government when in-state tuition was like $1800/quarter and you could easily rent a room in the udistrict for like $300/month. So no need to have a job to help pay the bills while in school. -
Sure, that's a problem. But at the end of the day, there is no individual situation in which the person took on the problem themselves willingly and knowingly. Give me 98% of students and I can find better ways they should have spent their money.Bob_C said:
The government subsidizing the loans is the main cause of what has caused the cost to skyrocket. So yes there’s a problem there.Fenderbender123 said:There is no problem with student loans and tuition in this country. What there is a problem with is people making bad financial decisions, and doing so knowing full well what kind of payments they are going to have to make after graduating. These are the last people on the planet who deserves a bailout. If you fucked up, go file for bankruptcy or suck it up. You put yourself in this mess, now pull yourself out.
Some bad decisions made at a lot of levels, wonder what % of debtors learned how to calculate a basic ROI. -
Either that or they choose an expensive school for a major that doesn't require it.Sledog said:
It's that so many choose a degree that has a 0% chance of getting them a good paying job.Bob_C said:
The government subsidizing the loans is the main cause of what has caused the cost to skyrocket. So yes there’s a problem there.Fenderbender123 said:There is no problem with student loans and tuition in this country. What there is a problem with is people making bad financial decisions, and doing so knowing full well what kind of payments they are going to have to make after graduating. These are the last people on the planet who deserves a bailout. If you fucked up, go file for bankruptcy or suck it up. You put yourself in this mess, now pull yourself out.
Some bad decisions made at a lot of levels, wonder what % of debtors learned how to calculate a basic ROI. -
If they owe over 150k, then they didn't demonstrate need to Brown or their parents had the means and didn't want to chip in. The Ivy League and other wealthy schools are typically pretty generous with free money. While I grant you that each school's "need" algorithm is different, generally speaking you don't need to go into great debt to attend the Ivy League (or equivalent) if you can get in and don't have the money.Bendintheriver said:
You are damn right it is outrageous. Anyone who is dumb enough and lacks any common sense to spend 100K on an education that they could not afford will just make the same mistake again when they end up having kids. Seriously, why in the hell should the tax payers pay for poor decision making? We all have friends who's little spoiled darlings went to private schools and came out with worthless degrees. I have a customer who sent their son and daughter to Brown for degrees in education. They owe over 150K. Do the fucking math. Those debts will never get paid on a teachers salary. When they get to the administrative level they can maybe make a dent but that will most likely be 10-15 years down the road. Sorry but that is not my fault and I object to anyone expecting me to pay for that bad decision making. Here in GA they could have sent them to a state school and had tuition paid for by the lottery. They could have come out with a degree in education from UGA and had zero debt. We can't afford to pay for that kind of stupidity.SFGbob said:
You won't answer because you're lightweight and a coward but why the fuck do you feel you have an entitlement to the labor of others for choices you made? Why should people who never attended college be paying for your student loan debt? Why should someone who went to Community College and then to a public school because they couldn't afford a private university be paying the student loan debt of someone who chose a private liberal arts school?TheKobeStopper said:
I’m not convinced that the people saying we shouldn’t do it because they already paid, aren’t just right wingers who would oppose it regardless.HHusky said:
I’m sympathetic. We spent a shitload of money sending three kids to college. There should be some recognition of that for people of moderate means who paid outrageous sums.TheKobeStopper said:There is nothing that came be done that won’t make some people mad. What a stupid argument.
I do think there’s lot of people like you, who could support it but feel it’s unfair. And, for the record, it is unfair.
I don’t know what you mean by “recognition”. I would say by cancelling the debt we are acknowledging that the people before got a raw deal. I don’t think any kind of compensation is on the table because the right would scream about how are we going to pay for that and dems don’t have the courage to stand up to that nonsense.
It's fucking outrageous that this is even being considered.
It is outrageous that rat leadership is even thinking about buying votes with my tax dollars and it going to really stupid people.
https://www.brown.edu/about/administration/financial-aid/brown-promise-faqs
Also, there are myriad cirmunstances where loans can be forgiven or cancelled if you go into various public service careers.
https://www.brown.edu/about/administration/loans/repay-your-loans/cancellation-forgiveness
Lastly, call me elitist all you want, using an Ivy League school is not a great example. Those kids could turn that Ivy League diploma into a well-paying job any time they wish.
I agree with your main point. It is beyond outrageous. -
This. The most to-the-point post in the thread Sleddy.Sledog said:
There is nothing that needs to be done. You took out a loan! Repay the fucking loan!TheKobeStopper said:There is nothing that came be done that won’t make some people mad. What a stupid argument.
It's that simple. Contract. Consideration. Mutual assent. Enforcement. Show me it was a contract of adhesion, or some other equitable argument that exists in English common law jurisprudence, and I'm all ears. But it's not likely.
Those loan papers are accompanied by MASSIVE amounts of disclosure, and the financial aid offices have counselors there to help you work through what you're about to do. This, from the same Brown website I linked to in the other post:
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Can they repo a degree in African dance theory?
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This is already a thing. Most won't actually follow through on how many years it takes to get the forgiveness because IT'S HARD.PurpleThrobber said:The Throbber has no problem with student loan restructuring. Put the English Lit majors to work re-building bridges, managing the forests, teaching inner city kids...whatever. Don't whine to me because your Women's Swahili Study degree gets you a job as a barista instead of pulling down big jack in tech.
Ain't no free lunch in this world. Bad choices mean consequences. Doesn't mean a lifetime of suck - but provide means to get out from under shitty choices and then stop making bad choices.
Life ain't that hard, folks. -
Both parents are teachers. The education and room and board came to around 300K. The grants and assistance covered less than half. The rest is on the two kids. The kids are far left rats and not exactly socialized or normal looking (think Oregon's Governor ) so turning that Brown education into gold ain't happening anytime soon. We have friends who's daughter went to Radcliff. Valedictorian, minority, super attractive with a great personality. Radcliff offered very little assistance. She decided to go anyway and take on the debt. She still owes 75K, married a jerk and is now a stay at home mother. These are real life examples and no one should have to pay anything to these people and their debt. Those decisions were theirs, not mine.creepycoug said:
If they owe over 150k, then they didn't demonstrate need to Brown or their parents had the means and didn't want to chip in. The Ivy League and other wealthy schools are typically pretty generous with free money. While I grant you that each school's "need" algorithm is different, generally speaking you don't need to go into great debt to attend the Ivy League (or equivalent) if you can get in and don't have the money.Bendintheriver said:
You are damn right it is outrageous. Anyone who is dumb enough and lacks any common sense to spend 100K on an education that they could not afford will just make the same mistake again when they end up having kids. Seriously, why in the hell should the tax payers pay for poor decision making? We all have friends who's little spoiled darlings went to private schools and came out with worthless degrees. I have a customer who sent their son and daughter to Brown for degrees in education. They owe over 150K. Do the fucking math. Those debts will never get paid on a teachers salary. When they get to the administrative level they can maybe make a dent but that will most likely be 10-15 years down the road. Sorry but that is not my fault and I object to anyone expecting me to pay for that bad decision making. Here in GA they could have sent them to a state school and had tuition paid for by the lottery. They could have come out with a degree in education from UGA and had zero debt. We can't afford to pay for that kind of stupidity.SFGbob said:
You won't answer because you're lightweight and a coward but why the fuck do you feel you have an entitlement to the labor of others for choices you made? Why should people who never attended college be paying for your student loan debt? Why should someone who went to Community College and then to a public school because they couldn't afford a private university be paying the student loan debt of someone who chose a private liberal arts school?TheKobeStopper said:
I’m not convinced that the people saying we shouldn’t do it because they already paid, aren’t just right wingers who would oppose it regardless.HHusky said:
I’m sympathetic. We spent a shitload of money sending three kids to college. There should be some recognition of that for people of moderate means who paid outrageous sums.TheKobeStopper said:There is nothing that came be done that won’t make some people mad. What a stupid argument.
I do think there’s lot of people like you, who could support it but feel it’s unfair. And, for the record, it is unfair.
I don’t know what you mean by “recognition”. I would say by cancelling the debt we are acknowledging that the people before got a raw deal. I don’t think any kind of compensation is on the table because the right would scream about how are we going to pay for that and dems don’t have the courage to stand up to that nonsense.
It's fucking outrageous that this is even being considered.
It is outrageous that rat leadership is even thinking about buying votes with my tax dollars and it going to really stupid people.
https://www.brown.edu/about/administration/financial-aid/brown-promise-faqs
Also, there are myriad cirmunstances where loans can be forgiven or cancelled if you go into various public service careers.
https://www.brown.edu/about/administration/loans/repay-your-loans/cancellation-forgiveness
Lastly, call me elitist all you want, using an Ivy League school is not a great example. Those kids could turn that Ivy League diploma into a well-paying job any time they wish.
I agree with your main point. It is beyond outrageous. -
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Understood like three words in this post. Chinned it anyway.creepycoug said:
This. The most to-the-point post in the thread Sleddy.Sledog said:
There is nothing that needs to be done. You took out a loan! Repay the fucking loan!TheKobeStopper said:There is nothing that came be done that won’t make some people mad. What a stupid argument.
It's that simple. Contract. Consideration. Mutual assent. Enforcement. Show me it was a contract of adhesion, or some other equitable argument that exists in English common law jurisprudence, and I'm all ears. But it's not likely.
Those loan papers are accompanied by MASSIVE amounts of disclosure, and the financial aid offices have counselors there to help you work through what you're about to do. This, from the same Brown website I linked to in the other post: -
I'm in favor of forgiving student loans...only if the amount forgiven is the exact same amount the government is allowed to confiscated from the endowments from all of these universities.
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My issue with it is that this doesn't solve anything without first putting in policies that make it clear that all of this was a bad mistake
It seems to be conspicuously missing. No one is saying if you need relief it's because you clearly did a bad thing. Its more like "you did right but the world is evil"
Part of it is that for 2 generations now people have been brainwashed that if they go to a "good school" (no matter the debt, major etc) then they are entitled to a good job and life.
The colleges, teachers, and people's own shitty parents (biggest culprit) are the enablers
That needs to end too. -
College costs have skyrocketed over the past 20 years. That's the issue. I agree that if you major in transgender studies and get bent out of shape over having to work at Starphucks for $12.25 an hour, you bear some responsibility. It doesn't change the fact that there used to be an effort and understanding that state schools ought to be affordable for middle class families.
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But lots of these middle class families are sending their kids to out of state and private schools which is outrageousFire_Marshall_Bill said:College costs have skyrocketed over the past 20 years. That's the issue. I agree that if you major in transgender studies and get bent out of shape over having to work at Starphucks for $12.25 an hour, you bear some responsibility. It doesn't change the fact that there used to be an effort and understanding that state schools ought to be affordable for middle class families.
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Then let the states subsidize their citizens. It shouldn't fall on the Federal government to bail these people out.Fire_Marshall_Bill said:College costs have skyrocketed over the past 20 years. That's the issue. I agree that if you major in transgender studies and get bent out of shape over having to work at Starphucks for $12.25 an hour, you bear some responsibility. It doesn't change the fact that there used to be an effort and understanding that state schools ought to be affordable for middle class families.
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defund the online and ancillary colleges yesterday.
Schools like UW can fuck around with weird programs because they also have top notch medical, computer science, reputable business school, great law school, etc.
Kids can't make the grade in engineering there and transfer elsewhere and thrive. There's still real world practicality on that campus, even if a lot of the teachers and admins are nuts.
The online and ancillary schools just have nothing but shit, and are still able to charge a boatload to contribute to this problem.
Online schools specifically are an absolute sham. I worked for one. The people who run those are con artists of the highest caliber.
