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Comments
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They are definitely out there, I have a nephew who has been training to be welder and you can actually get hooked up with stuff like that through community colleges evidently. Since he doesn't like school it's great for him and he can make a lot more money than his other relatives. You have to have your shit together to get ahead in the trades.Boner said:
There are actually a lot of high wage blue collar careers available, the issue is finding a kid who knows which end of a screwdriver to use or is at least willing to learn.Kingdome_Urinals said:
Yeah, a lot of kids are completely lost at college and have no appreciation for the opportunities they have. I don't think college is necessarily worth it financially and if a kid doesn't want to go they shouldn't.creepycoug said:
I agree with pretty much all of that. I used to say all the time that I don't care where my Ds meet their future husbands as long as it's not in HS. Just playing the rough odds there.Kingdome_Urinals said:
College is simply associated with social prestige and higher earnings. Even if college grads don't always make more money, it doesn't really matter. Mass higher education is a social norm in the developed world and middle-class people will do whatever it takes to maintain social prestige.creepycoug said:
I have come around to agreeing with this view, overcoming a huge emotional bias on my part in the process. But at today's prices it's hard to justify for at least 50% of the college-attending population.UW_Doog_Bot said:
*sighRatherBeBrewing said:
1. Your observational data aligns with teachers telling kids to learn how to add fractions or they’ll end up as plumbers digging in toilets - but fail to mention that the plumbers make twice as much money as them. However the data I’m referring to is new and shows that based on earnings just two years after graduation 76% of BA/BS degree holders are earning enough to where ten years after graduation they should have recouped their investment.dtd said:
1. Just not true, not today. Using averages from 2 decades ago when people made money writing for newspapers makes no sense. The cash me ousside girl made a million in a weekend showing her meth boobs. Trade schools make way more sense for the vast majority of people.RatherBeBrewing said:I see all these new posts about Junior Adams and I’m relieved to see that it’s just hot talk on the value of a college degree.
Oh no - wait... Oregon hired him? Well. Fuck. Why would we(?) want him(?)
My two thoughts:
1. A college degree is definitely worth it. Even if we forego all the non-tangible benefits of college and just use the raw averages readily available - with the hypothetical $100k of debt, it’s worth it. Unless you plan on living under ~12 years after graduation. Save your outlier examples, we do averages like civilized people.
2. Some of Lanning’s hires don’t make sense. But after Scott Frost all of Oregon’s WR coaches have been shitty, he’s the sixth one since 2016, so it might not matter. If he’s shitty like the rest have been at least its another notch on Oregon’s dicking-of-other-Pac-12-schools belt and a step up from hiring away Leach’s assistants.
2. Memphis of the West
This doesn’t take into account the higher employment rates, health insurance rates, and the rates of not being in poverty. The study is from 2020/21 and didn’t take the rocketing inflation into consideration.
The 24% of those who don’t recoup in ten years should still come out ahead in the long run and the numbers are skewed by more expensive private and for profit institutions. The obvious majors are the ones with poor return: religious studies, anthropology, film, etc.
It’s still true, maybe not as obvious as in the past, but go to a state school and get a degree that isn’t 100% fluff and you’re going to be better off than most people without one.
2. I wish, Memphis had some monster offensive numbers. This feels more like an amalgamation of a watered down, poor man’s Saban/Kirby recruiting wins system, with a strong Jim Mora flavor Jr and Todd Graham aftertaste.
Re: data
Yes, let's normalize our inherently non-normal data for kurtosis and skew. The overwhelming majority of wealth made that drives up the averages is made by less than 5% of graduate earners.
Odds are those guys were going to be successful anyways so it's opportunity cost as I mentioned.
Use the mode instead of the mean.
Now reverse the process for non-graduates to adjust for people that college would have never benefited anyways.
Aka you can't fix stupid.
We haven't even talked about market projection and demographics out over tim.
TLDR YMMV and correlation ain't causation.
There is too much money in financial aid right now that draws too many people into the game. Then again, you don't want it to be a rich man's game either. There is a rough cut people use to describe what it used to be and what it is now by referencing Harvard: 50 years ago Harvard was 75% rich kids of varying degrees of intelligence (see the Kennedys) and 25% brilliant kids. Today, it's flipped, and even Harvard admissions references the "happy bottom 25%", meaning wealthy and hooked kids who will graduate in the bottom 25% and be happy just to have the degree as a social credential.
I often wonder if we need to go back to that. Let the rich have their spots because in the end they pay for everything, but make sure there is a mechanism to find and develop talent coming from various socio-economic backgrounds. There are too many "middle bell curve" kids spending money - the government's or their parent's - going to college and barely getting anything out of it.
The thing that makes this topic difficult is the same thing that makes most topics difficult: subtlety. There are soft reasons for getting an education that goes beyond ROI. There's the experience of it and the other things that are harder to pinpoint. If you go to school with smart kids, that will rub off too. There's little question that it can make you better all around even if you're not that gifted to begin with. But at what cost?
There are legions of kids going to college on mom & dad's dime who are entirely checking the box. I mean, check the fucking box and are barely more intellectually developed than when they got there. Education can be a great thing but you have to actually get one and you have to make it so that it is economically feasible. I myself don't care about the 4-year ROI measure. I play the the long game. But you can't be saddled with six-figure debt for a bachelor's degree.
Most jobs, even prestigious jobs, don't actually require discrete and measurable cognitive skills. They do however, prefer people with higher credentials because of socitety-wide academic credential inflation.
College is also preferable for middle-class mating. Not just for the opportunity for to hook up with enormous varieties of potential partners, but also for social prestige thereafter. Try getting an attractive, upwardly-mobile girlfriend without a college degree and decent-seeming job. People with more education also tend to have more successful marriages and create more stable families. College tends to be the crucible of this social process.
Lastly, the environment of college is considered inherently pleasurable by many people.
That said, a seriously earnest kid who wants to start a plumbing business (as in, eventually having people do the actual work for him while he invests capital and directs traffic) is preferable to me than a kid who spends 4 years drunk at Cuog, learns next to nothing, scrapes by and confuses the fact that he was rush chairman of his frat with prestige. He ain't got no fucking prestige, and the future plumber is already well ahead of him.
However, in the generally widespread absence of high-wage blue collar work many young people don't see a lot of great options out there. If you go to college you might feel like you're on the right track, at least for a few years.
There's always a few people in the tech industry who didn't go to college, and it's not always necessary for that, but the money, research, and personal networks are clustered around the high prestige institutions.
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The biggest threat to black America is the UW football program, confirmed.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Is there a fan more racist than SubK?bananasnblondes said:
Just in case anyone was wondering, this guy is taking the coaching change in a very calm and reasoned manner -
Junior Adams is this New Years Jordan Banks for Sub K. Just like Banks, Adams will be what he is. A marginal piece in a program. But preach on! Get the message out there! UW bad!FireCohen said:
Yes, but he is the most suicidal/racist. He takes the cake for that categoryGreenRiverGatorz said:
Is there a fan more racist than SubK?bananasnblondes said:
Just in case anyone was wondering, this guy is taking the coaching change in a very calm and reasoned manner -
*We have dnc to thank. His bullying turned lamichaellacorleone from a race baiting faggot into sniveling emo race baiting faggot.
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Not reading that. Just win football games.Kingdome_Urinals said:
College is simply associated with social prestige and higher earnings. Even if college grads don't always make more money, it doesn't really matter. Mass higher education is a social norm in the developed world and middle-class people will do whatever it takes to maintain social prestige.creepycoug said:
I have come around to agreeing with this view, overcoming a huge emotional bias on my part in the process. But at today's prices it's hard to justify for at least 50% of the college-attending population.UW_Doog_Bot said:
*sighRatherBeBrewing said:
1. Your observational data aligns with teachers telling kids to learn how to add fractions or they’ll end up as plumbers digging in toilets - but fail to mention that the plumbers make twice as much money as them. However the data I’m referring to is new and shows that based on earnings just two years after graduation 76% of BA/BS degree holders are earning enough to where ten years after graduation they should have recouped their investment.dtd said:
1. Just not true, not today. Using averages from 2 decades ago when people made money writing for newspapers makes no sense. The cash me ousside girl made a million in a weekend showing her meth boobs. Trade schools make way more sense for the vast majority of people.RatherBeBrewing said:I see all these new posts about Junior Adams and I’m relieved to see that it’s just hot talk on the value of a college degree.
Oh no - wait... Oregon hired him? Well. Fuck. Why would we(?) want him(?)
My two thoughts:
1. A college degree is definitely worth it. Even if we forego all the non-tangible benefits of college and just use the raw averages readily available - with the hypothetical $100k of debt, it’s worth it. Unless you plan on living under ~12 years after graduation. Save your outlier examples, we do averages like civilized people.
2. Some of Lanning’s hires don’t make sense. But after Scott Frost all of Oregon’s WR coaches have been shitty, he’s the sixth one since 2016, so it might not matter. If he’s shitty like the rest have been at least its another notch on Oregon’s dicking-of-other-Pac-12-schools belt and a step up from hiring away Leach’s assistants.
2. Memphis of the West
This doesn’t take into account the higher employment rates, health insurance rates, and the rates of not being in poverty. The study is from 2020/21 and didn’t take the rocketing inflation into consideration.
The 24% of those who don’t recoup in ten years should still come out ahead in the long run and the numbers are skewed by more expensive private and for profit institutions. The obvious majors are the ones with poor return: religious studies, anthropology, film, etc.
It’s still true, maybe not as obvious as in the past, but go to a state school and get a degree that isn’t 100% fluff and you’re going to be better off than most people without one.
2. I wish, Memphis had some monster offensive numbers. This feels more like an amalgamation of a watered down, poor man’s Saban/Kirby recruiting wins system, with a strong Jim Mora flavor Jr and Todd Graham aftertaste.
Re: data
Yes, let's normalize our inherently non-normal data for kurtosis and skew. The overwhelming majority of wealth made that drives up the averages is made by less than 5% of graduate earners.
Odds are those guys were going to be successful anyways so it's opportunity cost as I mentioned.
Use the mode instead of the mean.
Now reverse the process for non-graduates to adjust for people that college would have never benefited anyways.
Aka you can't fix stupid.
We haven't even talked about market projection and demographics out over tim.
TLDR YMMV and correlation ain't causation.
There is too much money in financial aid right now that draws too many people into the game. Then again, you don't want it to be a rich man's game either. There is a rough cut people use to describe what it used to be and what it is now by referencing Harvard: 50 years ago Harvard was 75% rich kids of varying degrees of intelligence (see the Kennedys) and 25% brilliant kids. Today, it's flipped, and even Harvard admissions references the "happy bottom 25%", meaning wealthy and hooked kids who will graduate in the bottom 25% and be happy just to have the degree as a social credential.
I often wonder if we need to go back to that. Let the rich have their spots because in the end they pay for everything, but make sure there is a mechanism to find and develop talent coming from various socio-economic backgrounds. There are too many "middle bell curve" kids spending money - the government's or their parent's - going to college and barely getting anything out of it.
The thing that makes this topic difficult is the same thing that makes most topics difficult: subtlety. There are soft reasons for getting an education that goes beyond ROI. There's the experience of it and the other things that are harder to pinpoint. If you go to school with smart kids, that will rub off too. There's little question that it can make you better all around even if you're not that gifted to begin with. But at what cost?
There are legions of kids going to college on mom & dad's dime who are entirely checking the box. I mean, check the fucking box and are barely more intellectually developed than when they got there. Education can be a great thing but you have to actually get one and you have to make it so that it is economically feasible. I myself don't care about the 4-year ROI measure. I play the the long game. But you can't be saddled with six-figure debt for a bachelor's degree.
Most jobs, even prestigious jobs, don't actually require discrete and measurable cognitive skills. They do however, prefer people with higher credentials because of socitety-wide academic credential inflation.
College is also preferable for middle-class mating. Not just for the opportunity for to hook up with enormous varieties of potential partners, but also for social prestige thereafter. Try getting an attractive, upwardly-mobile girlfriend without a college degree and decent-seeming job. People with more education also tend to have more successful marriages and create more stable families. College tends to be the crucible of this social process.
Lastly, the environment of college is considered inherently pleasurable by many people. -
Holy cringe.greenblood said:
Indiana is the better job.backthepack said:
Grant Heard please. Worked with Deboer at Indiana. Currently the Co-OC/Wr coach at Indiana. Recruited DK as well. Only making 425k.HFNY said:The question is, who do DeBoer / Grubb hire as WR coach now? Is it possible a WR coach can walk (coach) and chew gum (recruit well) at the same time?
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Me. I hate white coaches even more than him.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Is there a fan more racist than SubK?bananasnblondes said:
Just in case anyone was wondering, this guy is taking the coaching change in a very calm and reasoned manner -
Greenblood used to be a good poster. The relentless quooking of some of the more recent quool additions seems to rub off on him at times.backthepack said:
Holy cringe.greenblood said:
Indiana is the better job.backthepack said:
Grant Heard please. Worked with Deboer at Indiana. Currently the Co-OC/Wr coach at Indiana. Recruited DK as well. Only making 425k.HFNY said:The question is, who do DeBoer / Grubb hire as WR coach now? Is it possible a WR coach can walk (coach) and chew gum (recruit well) at the same time?
Stupid, empty troll post. Sad. -
Confirmed New Years resolution for Fudgie was turning into a 50 year old fat Karenbackthepack said:
Me. I hate white coaches even more than him.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Is there a fan more racist than SubK?bananasnblondes said:
Just in case anyone was wondering, this guy is taking the coaching change in a very calm and reasoned manner -
I’ve noticed socially that my friends and myself that went to college are much more able to fit in with any type of person better than my friends that stayed home and worked. It does help immensely to get out of your comfort level and have to make new friends.Kingdome_Urinals said:
College is simply associated with social prestige and higher earnings. Even if college grads don't always make more money, it doesn't really matter. Mass higher education is a social norm in the developed world and middle-class people will do whatever it takes to maintain social prestige.creepycoug said:
I have come around to agreeing with this view, overcoming a huge emotional bias on my part in the process. But at today's prices it's hard to justify for at least 50% of the college-attending population.UW_Doog_Bot said:
*sighRatherBeBrewing said:
1. Your observational data aligns with teachers telling kids to learn how to add fractions or they’ll end up as plumbers digging in toilets - but fail to mention that the plumbers make twice as much money as them. However the data I’m referring to is new and shows that based on earnings just two years after graduation 76% of BA/BS degree holders are earning enough to where ten years after graduation they should have recouped their investment.dtd said:
1. Just not true, not today. Using averages from 2 decades ago when people made money writing for newspapers makes no sense. The cash me ousside girl made a million in a weekend showing her meth boobs. Trade schools make way more sense for the vast majority of people.RatherBeBrewing said:I see all these new posts about Junior Adams and I’m relieved to see that it’s just hot talk on the value of a college degree.
Oh no - wait... Oregon hired him? Well. Fuck. Why would we(?) want him(?)
My two thoughts:
1. A college degree is definitely worth it. Even if we forego all the non-tangible benefits of college and just use the raw averages readily available - with the hypothetical $100k of debt, it’s worth it. Unless you plan on living under ~12 years after graduation. Save your outlier examples, we do averages like civilized people.
2. Some of Lanning’s hires don’t make sense. But after Scott Frost all of Oregon’s WR coaches have been shitty, he’s the sixth one since 2016, so it might not matter. If he’s shitty like the rest have been at least its another notch on Oregon’s dicking-of-other-Pac-12-schools belt and a step up from hiring away Leach’s assistants.
2. Memphis of the West
This doesn’t take into account the higher employment rates, health insurance rates, and the rates of not being in poverty. The study is from 2020/21 and didn’t take the rocketing inflation into consideration.
The 24% of those who don’t recoup in ten years should still come out ahead in the long run and the numbers are skewed by more expensive private and for profit institutions. The obvious majors are the ones with poor return: religious studies, anthropology, film, etc.
It’s still true, maybe not as obvious as in the past, but go to a state school and get a degree that isn’t 100% fluff and you’re going to be better off than most people without one.
2. I wish, Memphis had some monster offensive numbers. This feels more like an amalgamation of a watered down, poor man’s Saban/Kirby recruiting wins system, with a strong Jim Mora flavor Jr and Todd Graham aftertaste.
Re: data
Yes, let's normalize our inherently non-normal data for kurtosis and skew. The overwhelming majority of wealth made that drives up the averages is made by less than 5% of graduate earners.
Odds are those guys were going to be successful anyways so it's opportunity cost as I mentioned.
Use the mode instead of the mean.
Now reverse the process for non-graduates to adjust for people that college would have never benefited anyways.
Aka you can't fix stupid.
We haven't even talked about market projection and demographics out over tim.
TLDR YMMV and correlation ain't causation.
There is too much money in financial aid right now that draws too many people into the game. Then again, you don't want it to be a rich man's game either. There is a rough cut people use to describe what it used to be and what it is now by referencing Harvard: 50 years ago Harvard was 75% rich kids of varying degrees of intelligence (see the Kennedys) and 25% brilliant kids. Today, it's flipped, and even Harvard admissions references the "happy bottom 25%", meaning wealthy and hooked kids who will graduate in the bottom 25% and be happy just to have the degree as a social credential.
I often wonder if we need to go back to that. Let the rich have their spots because in the end they pay for everything, but make sure there is a mechanism to find and develop talent coming from various socio-economic backgrounds. There are too many "middle bell curve" kids spending money - the government's or their parent's - going to college and barely getting anything out of it.
The thing that makes this topic difficult is the same thing that makes most topics difficult: subtlety. There are soft reasons for getting an education that goes beyond ROI. There's the experience of it and the other things that are harder to pinpoint. If you go to school with smart kids, that will rub off too. There's little question that it can make you better all around even if you're not that gifted to begin with. But at what cost?
There are legions of kids going to college on mom & dad's dime who are entirely checking the box. I mean, check the fucking box and are barely more intellectually developed than when they got there. Education can be a great thing but you have to actually get one and you have to make it so that it is economically feasible. I myself don't care about the 4-year ROI measure. I play the the long game. But you can't be saddled with six-figure debt for a bachelor's degree.
Most jobs, even prestigious jobs, don't actually require discrete and measurable cognitive skills. They do however, prefer people with higher credentials because of socitety-wide academic credential inflation.
College is also preferable for middle-class mating. Not just for the opportunity for to hook up with enormous varieties of potential partners, but also for social prestige thereafter. Try getting an attractive, upwardly-mobile girlfriend without a college degree and decent-seeming job. People with more education also tend to have more successful marriages and create more stable families. College tends to be the crucible of this social process.
Lastly, the environment of college is considered inherently pleasurable by many people. -
I really fucked up reading 8 pages of this.
College, we talking about College!?!! -
You already are a 50 year old fat KarenJoeEDangerously said:
Confirmed New Years resolution for Fudgie was turning into a 50 year old fat Karenbackthepack said:
Me. I hate white coaches even more than him.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Is there a fan more racist than SubK?bananasnblondes said:
Just in case anyone was wondering, this guy is taking the coaching change in a very calm and reasoned manner -
Welcome to the club thenbackthepack said:
You already are a 50 year old fat KarenJoeEDangerously said:
Confirmed New Years resolution for Fudgie was turning into a 50 year old fat Karenbackthepack said:
Me. I hate white coaches even more than him.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Is there a fan more racist than SubK?bananasnblondes said:
Just in case anyone was wondering, this guy is taking the coaching change in a very calm and reasoned manner -
If we’re bashing 50 year fat Karens, I’m out!backthepack said:
You already are a 50 year old fat KarenJoeEDangerously said:
Confirmed New Years resolution for Fudgie was turning into a 50 year old fat Karenbackthepack said:
Me. I hate white coaches even more than him.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Is there a fan more racist than SubK?bananasnblondes said:
Just in case anyone was wondering, this guy is taking the coaching change in a very calm and reasoned manner -
Give me 28 yearsJoeEDangerously said:
Welcome to the club thenbackthepack said:
You already are a 50 year old fat KarenJoeEDangerously said:
Confirmed New Years resolution for Fudgie was turning into a 50 year old fat Karenbackthepack said:
Me. I hate white coaches even more than him.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Is there a fan more racist than SubK?bananasnblondes said:
Just in case anyone was wondering, this guy is taking the coaching change in a very calm and reasoned manner -
I’ve noticed socially that my friends and myself that went to college are much more able to fit in with any type of person better than my friends that stayed home and worked. It does help immensely to get out of your comfort level and have to make new friends.
@RoadDawg55 that's a fair point. The intangible value of socialization and particularly in new environments helps, particularly jobs that require more people-person skills. I guess I take that somewhat for granted and the intellectual curiosity that I furthered during college that permits me to be a more well-rounded citizen and human. Plus, it makes me more chinteresting at cocktail parties! -
Btw, have we hired Brian Hartline away from Ohio State yet?
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Make him the OC, let the MWC dorks take a step back, pay him 2mm.HFNY said:Btw, have we hired Brian Hartline away from Ohio State yet?
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If we're banging 50 year fat Karen's, I'm in!CFetters_Nacho_Lover said:
If we’re bashing 50 year fat Karens, I’m out!backthepack said:
You already are a 50 year old fat KarenJoeEDangerously said:
Confirmed New Years resolution for Fudgie was turning into a 50 year old fat Karenbackthepack said:
Me. I hate white coaches even more than him.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Is there a fan more racist than SubK?bananasnblondes said:
Just in case anyone was wondering, this guy is taking the coaching change in a very calm and reasoned manner -
HoustonHusky said:
Not sure how everyone gets an A…here is your safe space…mom, dad, and the govt foot the bill for you to eat, drink, and be merry without putting any real work in…just sign some papers and somebody will pay it back later…is anything like the real world, although some think they can print their way into changing the world into that…but that’s a topic for the tug.RatherBeBrewing said:
I think most of us enjoyed the middle-class mating, but let’s not bash the lower-class banging that direct-to-workforce teens partake in.Kingdome_Urinals said:
College is also preferable for middle-class mating.creepycoug said:
I have come around to agreeing with this view, overcoming a huge emotional bias on my part in the process. But at today's prices it's hard to justify for at least 50% of the college-attending population.UW_Doog_Bot said:
*sighRatherBeBrewing said:
1. Your observational data aligns with teachers telling kids to learn how to add fractions or they’ll end up as plumbers digging in toilets - but fail to mention that the plumbers make twice as much money as them. However the data I’m referring to is new and shows that based on earnings just two years after graduation 76% of BA/BS degree holders are earning enough to where ten years after graduation they should have recouped their investment.dtd said:
1. Just not true, not today. Using averages from 2 decades ago when people made money writing for newspapers makes no sense. The cash me ousside girl made a million in a weekend showing her meth boobs. Trade schools make way more sense for the vast majority of people.RatherBeBrewing said:I see all these new posts about Junior Adams and I’m relieved to see that it’s just hot talk on the value of a college degree.
Oh no - wait... Oregon hired him? Well. Fuck. Why would we(?) want him(?)
My two thoughts:
1. A college degree is definitely worth it. Even if we forego all the non-tangible benefits of college and just use the raw averages readily available - with the hypothetical $100k of debt, it’s worth it. Unless you plan on living under ~12 years after graduation. Save your outlier examples, we do averages like civilized people.
2. Some of Lanning’s hires don’t make sense. But after Scott Frost all of Oregon’s WR coaches have been shitty, he’s the sixth one since 2016, so it might not matter. If he’s shitty like the rest have been at least its another notch on Oregon’s dicking-of-other-Pac-12-schools belt and a step up from hiring away Leach’s assistants.
2. Memphis of the West
This doesn’t take into account the higher employment rates, health insurance rates, and the rates of not being in poverty. The study is from 2020/21 and didn’t take the rocketing inflation into consideration.
The 24% of those who don’t recoup in ten years should still come out ahead in the long run and the numbers are skewed by more expensive private and for profit institutions. The obvious majors are the ones with poor return: religious studies, anthropology, film, etc.
It’s still true, maybe not as obvious as in the past, but go to a state school and get a degree that isn’t 100% fluff and you’re going to be better off than most people without one.
2. I wish, Memphis had some monster offensive numbers. This feels more like an amalgamation of a watered down, poor man’s Saban/Kirby recruiting wins system, with a strong Jim Mora flavor Jr and Todd Graham aftertaste.
Re: data
Yes, let's normalize our inherently non-normal data for kurtosis and skew. The overwhelming majority of wealth made that drives up the averages is made by less than 5% of graduate earners.
Odds are those guys were going to be successful anyways so it's opportunity cost as I mentioned.
Use the mode instead of the mean.
Now reverse the process for non-graduates to adjust for people that college would have never benefited anyways.
Aka you can't fix stupid.
We haven't even talked about market projection and demographics out over tim.
TLDR YMMV and correlation ain't causation.
There is too much money in financial aid right now that draws too many people into the game. Then again, you don't want it to be a rich man's game either. There is a rough cut people use to describe what it used to be and what it is now by referencing Harvard: 50 years ago Harvard was 75% rich kids of varying degrees of intelligence (see the Kennedys) and 25% brilliant kids. Today, it's flipped, and even Harvard admissions references the "happy bottom 25%", meaning wealthy and hooked kids who will graduate in the bottom 25% and be happy just to have the degree as a social credential.
I often wonder if we need to go back to that. Let the rich have their spots because in the end they pay for everything, but make sure there is a mechanism to find and develop talent coming from various socio-economic backgrounds. There are too many "middle bell curve" kids spending money - the government's or their parent's - going to college and barely getting anything out of it.
The thing that makes this topic difficult is the same thing that makes most topics difficult: subtlety. There are soft reasons for getting an education that goes beyond ROI. There's the experience of it and the other things that are harder to pinpoint. If you go to school with smart kids, that will rub off too. There's little question that it can make you better all around even if you're not that gifted to begin with. But at what cost?
There are legions of kids going to college on mom & dad's dime who are entirely checking the box. I mean, check the fucking box and are barely more intellectually developed than when they got there. Education can be a great thing but you have to actually get one and you have to make it so that it is economically feasible. I myself don't care about the 4-year ROI measure. I play the the long game. But you can't be saddled with six-figure debt for a bachelor's degree.
Lastly, the environment of college is considered inherently pleasurable by many people.
Being around a bunch of 18-24ish year olds who are living away from their parents for the first time is an education in social development and teaches you important life skills. You don’t have to go to a four year university to get them all, but it’s an unspoken part of the package. Most middle-class American 18 year olds are sheltered, naive, and don’t understand shit about how the world works - college is like the real world, but with training wheels and re-dos.
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Just one, got Vaseline in the other.MikeDamone said:
I didn't read this, but are you taking the gloves off?RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t brew anything beyond cold brew coffee. I fiddled with beer for a while. It was an interesting concept, at the time I used to drink and appreciate it, and I’m always of the notion that I can do something better than almost everyone else if I try. My beer was actually pretty good despite me humbly underselling it, but I didn’t have the passion or interest to pursue the hobby any further. Instead, I got into playing tennis. Worse for the knees, but much better for the liver.UW_Doog_Bot said:
*sighRatherBeBrewing said:
1. Your observational data aligns with teachers telling kids to learn how to add fractions or they’ll end up as plumbers digging in toilets - but fail to mention that the plumbers make twice as much money as them. However the data I’m referring to is new and shows that based on earnings just two years after graduation 76% of BA/BS degree holders are earning enough to where ten years after graduation they should have recouped their investment.dtd said:
1. Just not true, not today. Using averages from 2 decades ago when people made money writing for newspapers makes no sense. The cash me ousside girl made a million in a weekend showing her meth boobs. Trade schools make way more sense for the vast majority of people.RatherBeBrewing said:I see all these new posts about Junior Adams and I’m relieved to see that it’s just hot talk on the value of a college degree.
Oh no - wait... Oregon hired him? Well. Fuck. Why would we(?) want him(?)
My two thoughts:
1. A college degree is definitely worth it. Even if we forego all the non-tangible benefits of college and just use the raw averages readily available - with the hypothetical $100k of debt, it’s worth it. Unless you plan on living under ~12 years after graduation. Save your outlier examples, we do averages like civilized people.
2. Some of Lanning’s hires don’t make sense. But after Scott Frost all of Oregon’s WR coaches have been shitty, he’s the sixth one since 2016, so it might not matter. If he’s shitty like the rest have been at least its another notch on Oregon’s dicking-of-other-Pac-12-schools belt and a step up from hiring away Leach’s assistants.
2. Memphis of the West
This doesn’t take into account the higher employment rates, health insurance rates, and the rates of not being in poverty. The study is from 2020/21 and didn’t take the rocketing inflation into consideration.
The 24% of those who don’t recoup in ten years should still come out ahead in the long run and the numbers are skewed by more expensive private and for profit institutions. The obvious majors are the ones with poor return: religious studies, anthropology, film, etc.
It’s still true, maybe not as obvious as in the past, but go to a state school and get a degree that isn’t 100% fluff and you’re going to be better off than most people without one.
2. I wish, Memphis had some monster offensive numbers. This feels more like an amalgamation of a watered down, poor man’s Saban/Kirby recruiting wins system, with a strong Jim Mora flavor Jr and Todd Graham aftertaste.
Re: data
TLDR YMMV and correlation ain't causation.
I’m sharing this so you don’t have to feel bad about the lack of correlation between your username and the results that it yields.
I’ll give you credit for attempting to mention the hidden variables any data like this will entail. The people who get college degrees were already likelier to have higher incomes based on their socio-economic background, intelligence, ambition, primary education, desire to seek full employment, opportunity, regional differences, and a variety of other factors that are so numerous it would make creating two sets of data to compare nearly impossible.
I’ll also add that I agree that too many people are going to college, the return on a degree has declined, some degrees are not worth the opportunity cost - all these obvious things that college grads want to crown themselves as champions of the proletariat for agreeing with. As if it costs their diploma prestige points that they’re valiantly sacrificing.
I could (don’t worry, I won’t) explain the various statistics that show I’m right. We could look at the opportunity costs associated with not attending college or required of getting a blue collar job with a comparable income to a mid level bachelors degree, the time value of money, social costs such as the likelihood of marrying someone with similar educational status and the resulting doubling of what you perceive to be a small income gap, financial literacy the likelier physical toll of a blue collar job and the effect on life expectancy or healthcare costs - and many more boring things.
I never took Brevity 121, it wasn’t a required pre-req, so I suppressed my desire to explain even more. Like a Trading Places Duke Brothers style experiment I had in mind, or using Plinko as a visual example of the doors that become closed to those who don’t pursue higher education. Maybe the status quo will change in the next 20 years and you’ll be right. It’s very possible - just ask any Nebraska, Washington, or Virginia Tech fan.
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I get this literary reference, too!RatherBeBrewing said:
Just one, got Vaseline in the other.MikeDamone said:
I didn't read this, but are you taking the gloves off?RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t brew anything beyond cold brew coffee. I fiddled with beer for a while. It was an interesting concept, at the time I used to drink and appreciate it, and I’m always of the notion that I can do something better than almost everyone else if I try. My beer was actually pretty good despite me humbly underselling it, but I didn’t have the passion or interest to pursue the hobby any further. Instead, I got into playing tennis. Worse for the knees, but much better for the liver.UW_Doog_Bot said:
*sighRatherBeBrewing said:
1. Your observational data aligns with teachers telling kids to learn how to add fractions or they’ll end up as plumbers digging in toilets - but fail to mention that the plumbers make twice as much money as them. However the data I’m referring to is new and shows that based on earnings just two years after graduation 76% of BA/BS degree holders are earning enough to where ten years after graduation they should have recouped their investment.dtd said:
1. Just not true, not today. Using averages from 2 decades ago when people made money writing for newspapers makes no sense. The cash me ousside girl made a million in a weekend showing her meth boobs. Trade schools make way more sense for the vast majority of people.RatherBeBrewing said:I see all these new posts about Junior Adams and I’m relieved to see that it’s just hot talk on the value of a college degree.
Oh no - wait... Oregon hired him? Well. Fuck. Why would we(?) want him(?)
My two thoughts:
1. A college degree is definitely worth it. Even if we forego all the non-tangible benefits of college and just use the raw averages readily available - with the hypothetical $100k of debt, it’s worth it. Unless you plan on living under ~12 years after graduation. Save your outlier examples, we do averages like civilized people.
2. Some of Lanning’s hires don’t make sense. But after Scott Frost all of Oregon’s WR coaches have been shitty, he’s the sixth one since 2016, so it might not matter. If he’s shitty like the rest have been at least its another notch on Oregon’s dicking-of-other-Pac-12-schools belt and a step up from hiring away Leach’s assistants.
2. Memphis of the West
This doesn’t take into account the higher employment rates, health insurance rates, and the rates of not being in poverty. The study is from 2020/21 and didn’t take the rocketing inflation into consideration.
The 24% of those who don’t recoup in ten years should still come out ahead in the long run and the numbers are skewed by more expensive private and for profit institutions. The obvious majors are the ones with poor return: religious studies, anthropology, film, etc.
It’s still true, maybe not as obvious as in the past, but go to a state school and get a degree that isn’t 100% fluff and you’re going to be better off than most people without one.
2. I wish, Memphis had some monster offensive numbers. This feels more like an amalgamation of a watered down, poor man’s Saban/Kirby recruiting wins system, with a strong Jim Mora flavor Jr and Todd Graham aftertaste.
Re: data
TLDR YMMV and correlation ain't causation.
I’m sharing this so you don’t have to feel bad about the lack of correlation between your username and the results that it yields.
I’ll give you credit for attempting to mention the hidden variables any data like this will entail. The people who get college degrees were already likelier to have higher incomes based on their socio-economic background, intelligence, ambition, primary education, desire to seek full employment, opportunity, regional differences, and a variety of other factors that are so numerous it would make creating two sets of data to compare nearly impossible.
I’ll also add that I agree that too many people are going to college, the return on a degree has declined, some degrees are not worth the opportunity cost - all these obvious things that college grads want to crown themselves as champions of the proletariat for agreeing with. As if it costs their diploma prestige points that they’re valiantly sacrificing.
I could (don’t worry, I won’t) explain the various statistics that show I’m right. We could look at the opportunity costs associated with not attending college or required of getting a blue collar job with a comparable income to a mid level bachelors degree, the time value of money, social costs such as the likelihood of marrying someone with similar educational status and the resulting doubling of what you perceive to be a small income gap, financial literacy the likelier physical toll of a blue collar job and the effect on life expectancy or healthcare costs - and many more boring things.
I never took Brevity 121, it wasn’t a required pre-req, so I suppressed my desire to explain even more. Like a Trading Places Duke Brothers style experiment I had in mind, or using Plinko as a visual example of the doors that become closed to those who don’t pursue higher education. Maybe the status quo will change in the next 20 years and you’ll be right. It’s very possible - just ask any Nebraska, Washington, or Virginia Tech fan.
расскажи мне о кроликах, Юрий! -
The official Oregon Ducks press release of Adams signing...
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#repthenorth #scoducks #firejencohenChillyDawg said:The official Oregon Ducks press release of Adams signing...
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He's not a good coach. Can Oregon poach Huff too please
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They hired Klemm, who is way worse. Just axe Mike TomlinDoogles said:He's not a good coach. Can Oregon poach Huff too please
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This is dumb. Tomlin literally promoted Klemm last year. If he thought he sucked, he would have shown him the door.backthepack said:
They hired Klemm, who is way worse. Just axe Mike TomlinDoogles said:He's not a good coach. Can Oregon poach Huff too please
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They have the worst OL in the NFL this season and he didn't do anything to stop him when he left. He probably knew he was on the way out.doogville said:
This is dumb. Tomlin literally promoted Klemm last year. If he thought he sucked, he would have shown him the door.backthepack said:
They hired Klemm, who is way worse. Just axe Mike TomlinDoogles said:He's not a good coach. Can Oregon poach Huff too please
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He was also an unbelievable failure at UCLA when Mora was there.whatshouldicareabout said:
They have the worst OL in the NFL this season and he didn't do anything to stop him when he left. He probably knew he was on the way out.doogville said:
This is dumb. Tomlin literally promoted Klemm last year. If he thought he sucked, he would have shown him the door.backthepack said:
They hired Klemm, who is way worse. Just axe Mike TomlinDoogles said:He's not a good coach. Can Oregon poach Huff too please
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More pertinently - where do they rank in the Mountain West?whatshouldicareabout said:
They have the worst OL in the NFL this season and he didn't do anything to stop him when he left. He probably knew he was on the way out.doogville said:
This is dumb. Tomlin literally promoted Klemm last year. If he thought he sucked, he would have shown him the door.backthepack said:
They hired Klemm, who is way worse. Just axe Mike TomlinDoogles said:He's not a good coach. Can Oregon poach Huff too please
I’m not very familiar with the NFL, maybe you can help.
* Who is this Mike Tomlin that has employed Klemm for the last three years? Is he considered a good coach? Has he won any Grey Cups or Ryder Trophys? At least a Lady Bing or a Calder?
* What criteria determines the worst OL in the NFL? I’m a bit confused, every statistic I could find that could be relevant doesn’t show me. I’ll take your word for it - I’m assuming that young, handsome potato that plays quarterback for them must be the saving grace.
* A closer look shows the Pittsburg Eaglers are starting three guys on the offensive line who have the word ROOK by their name, is that a chess reference? Like, they’re solid end pieces? That seems very bad then if they have three Rooks yet they’re still allowing the Queen (the handsome QB potato) to be sacked more often than 11 of the 31 other teams. The potato is 39 years old, I’m guessing he’s been able to use his wiles to avoid getting sacked even more often. It’s also troubling that there are five teams worse at getting rushing yards, although last season it was zero teams. I’ll chalk that up to adding the running back who averages 4.0 yards per carry.
* I’ve heard that the best offensive lines value first half play and the second half is for try hards. That must mean the Pitts are extra bad, six of their eight wins have been fourth quarter comebacks. If they were better they wouldn’t need to have all those fourth quarter come backs.
Further research shows that Adrian Klemm is a girl name, which is even worse than a child’s name like Junior Adams. Klemm received a show-cause penalty, which means improprieties occurred in recruiting. As an Oregon fan I am dismayed at the prospect of using unfair advantages to entice young men to receive degrees in journalism. I have recently read that this dooms them to a future of abject poverty.
