If stats are how you judge cars and whether or not they're "good" you're probably not a car guy. Cars aren't TV's or appliances where you just look at the stat sheet and know which is best. Not everyone wants to own something based on how fast it laps a track, which is the most pointless talking point of all time since most modern performance cars aren't tracked at all and sit in traffic like the rest of society in their Camry's and SUV's.
Buying a classic car is buying rolling art. It's about how it makes you feel when you're behind the wheel. They're an emotional purchase, not a rational one.
You ever hear of a No True Scotsman argument? Look it up. We've definitively concluded that I don't meet one man's definition of a "car guy," but I don't see why that's earth-shattering information. It would be like me saying that if you think a car is nothing but rolling art, you're probably more of a poseur than a car guy. By my definition. Which isn't worth shit.
I could clamp the Mona Lisa to an original Radio Flyer and it would be rolling art, older than any car discussed in this thread, and magnitudes more rare and valuable. And I wouldn't want to own or drive it! Fuck rolling art. It's funny that you mention TVs and appliances. TVs now are flat, featureless sheets of glass. The screen is all that matters. Back in the day of these "amazing" classic cars, a television's design was important. The technology didn't exist to hide bezels and beam controls from a remote. A TV was a piece of furniture, and the high end ones had a lot of care in their design and aesthetic features and finishes. There was wood paneling and shiny knobs and chrome. Pieces or art some of those things were! That's why so many people painstakingly restore them and keep them in their living rooms and invite people over to show them off. Real attention-getters, those ornate television sets from the 60s.
I mean, check this thing out:
Look at all the details and the different materials and "classic" form. Definitely a design language from an era. A whole culture of watching TV started around sets like that, and they're not making any more like it. Kind of reminds me of something else...
Only difference between those two things is a bunch of people's boomer dads felt up their first date inside of one of them and not the other. I probably would have marveled at the form and function of both if I were a kid looking at one back in their heyday, but now, with the benefit of knowing what's come since, they both look awfully silly to me. Like wearing powdered wigs or those giant dresses and decorative umbrellas and crazy hats.
All I'm saying is gimme Blu82's C8 Corvette any day over any boomermobile. From a driving standpoint, engineering standpoint, comfort standpoint, build quality standpoint, and "rolling art" standpoint.
Compare that old Chevy to the modern family sedan. It's not a comparison of which has more style (old Chevy). I'm 39. Not an old fart. Modern cars, by and large, are less interesting. But they are clearly superior from a driving perspective. Some people just have to have the best, shiniest toy or the brand new iphone every 6 months.
I'll be curious to hear your opinion of a 2021 Porsche GT3 in 20 years because by all measures at that point in the future it will be entirely inferior car. That doesn't mean it won't be a great car, though.
I already addressed this with the part about the Ducati poster. I guarantee you in 20 years I'll look at that GT3R and think it both looks silly and functions in an outdated way. Twenty years from now, it's trending toward a gas powered car seeming silly in general.
Look, I'm not here to argue taste and hobbies. I don't like 900 pound cruiser motorcycles, but a LOT of people do for various reasons. That's fine. I don't like old cars, but a LOT of people do for various reasons. That's fine. My whole contribution to this thread was simply, "I don't get it." Most people seem to form an emotional attachment to things from a certain era, and I just don't. I've always been function over form, and I've also always been objective with form vs. nostalgic. Everything I've ever thought was the "most beautiful X ever" has always looked at least a little dated to me given enough time. So I hopped on to say, "This is a thread that's right up my alley, but I'm going to be on the outside looking in."
Where I've officially entered a debate is when I'm told this attitude therefore excludes me from being "a car guy." Trust me: I'm not just some guy with a lifetime Road and Track subscription. And when it comes to people I'd love to talk cars with, I'd take noted non-car-guys by your definition Colin Chapman or Ross Brawn over any Shamwow jockey at a classic car show.
The title of the thread came true as you know porn and a classic car when you see it and opinions may vary
Anyway if they are your cup o tea the Mecum Auto Auctions on NBC Sports Net may be the porn you are looking for
Emphasis on Classic Car Porn, which is why I don't understand why @1to392831weretaken is posting because none of what he's babbling on about has to do with classic cars. He has made it clear that anything more than 1 year old is shit in his opinion.
The title of the thread came true as you know porn and a classic car when you see it and opinions may vary
Anyway if they are your cup o tea the Mecum Auto Auctions on NBC Sports Net may be the porn you are looking for
Emphasis on Classic Car Porn, which is why I don't understand why @1to392831weretaken is posting because none of what he's babbling on about has to do with classic cars. He has made it clear that anything more than 1 year old is shit in his opinion.
It's really simple:
Somebody starts a thread titled "classic football porn" in which he posts an old flickering newsreel of the mighty Sundodgers pounding some parked battleship's feeble skwaad in a riveting display of Run Left and Run Right. "Those were the days," several people agree.
"None of those pussy facemasks and real pads that work. None of that pussy 'forward pass' bullshit. Football came of age in this era."
"Look at this badass," @analingusDawg says, accompanying an old black and white photo of a doughy 5'6", 175 lb. offensive tackle in a leather helmet, bleeding out of his skull and missing 81% of his teeth."
I chime in--like a hero, I'd like to emphasize--and throw in my two cents that I don't get it. Nostalgia, sure, but the game has evolved in ways that are great, and it's more exciting, harder hitting, more complex, more balanced, and smarter now. Personally, I don't get the attraction.
Your response is that, yeah, of course a modern cornerback is bigger than most linemen back then and runs 4.5, but that's missing the point if I just focus on "stats." Putting on the old game and watching it with dads is an emotional thing, not a logical one, and I'm just not a "football guy." And why would I even be posting in the thread at all if I don't want to be part of the circle jerk? An opinion is only valid if it agrees with the OP, and I've made it clear that I think football was invented when John Donovan was hired as OC.
For this analogy to be complete, let's say I played college football and coached at the highest level in a football state. And am an Army Ranger.
The title of the thread came true as you know porn and a classic car when you see it and opinions may vary
Anyway if they are your cup o tea the Mecum Auto Auctions on NBC Sports Net may be the porn you are looking for
Emphasis on Classic Car Porn, which is why I don't understand why @1to392831weretaken is posting because none of what he's babbling on about has to do with classic cars. He has made it clear that anything more than 1 year old is shit in his opinion.
It's really simple:
Somebody starts a thread titled "classic football porn" in which he posts an old flickering newsreel of the mighty Sundodgers pounding some parked battleship's feeble skwaad in a riveting display of Run Left and Run Right. "Those were the days," several people agree.
"None of those pussy facemasks and real pads that work. None of that pussy 'forward pass' bullshit. Football came of age in this era."
"Look at this badass," @analingusDawg says, accompanying an old black and white photo of a doughy 5'6", 175 lb. offensive tackle in a leather helmet, bleeding out of his skull and missing 81% of his teeth."
I chime in--like a hero, I'd like to emphasize--and throw in my two cents that I don't get it. Nostalgia, sure, but the game has evolved in ways that are great, and it's more exciting, harder hitting, more complex, more balanced, and smarter now. Personally, I don't get the attraction.
Your response is that, yeah, of course a modern cornerback is bigger than most linemen back then and runs 4.5, but that's missing the point if I just focus on "stats." Putting on the old game and watching it with dads is an emotional thing, not a logical one, and I'm just not a "football guy." And why would I even be posting in the thread at all if I don't want to be part of the circle jerk? An opinion is only valid if it agrees with the OP, and I've made it clear that I think football was invented when John Donovan was hired as OC.
For this analogy to be complete, let's say I played college football and coached at the highest level in a football state. And am an Army Ranger.
The title of the thread came true as you know porn and a classic car when you see it and opinions may vary
Anyway if they are your cup o tea the Mecum Auto Auctions on NBC Sports Net may be the porn you are looking for
Emphasis on Classic Car Porn, which is why I don't understand why @1to392831weretaken is posting because none of what he's babbling on about has to do with classic cars. He has made it clear that anything more than 1 year old is shit in his opinion.
It's really simple:
Somebody starts a thread titled "classic football porn" in which he posts an old flickering newsreel of the mighty Sundodgers pounding some parked battleship's feeble skwaad in a riveting display of Run Left and Run Right. "Those were the days," several people agree.
"None of those pussy facemasks and real pads that work. None of that pussy 'forward pass' bullshit. Football came of age in this era."
"Look at this badass," @analingusDawg says, accompanying an old black and white photo of a doughy 5'6", 175 lb. offensive tackle in a leather helmet, bleeding out of his skull and missing 81% of his teeth."
I chime in--like a hero, I'd like to emphasize--and throw in my two cents that I don't get it. Nostalgia, sure, but the game has evolved in ways that are great, and it's more exciting, harder hitting, more complex, more balanced, and smarter now. Personally, I don't get the attraction.
Your response is that, yeah, of course a modern cornerback is bigger than most linemen back then and runs 4.5, but that's missing the point if I just focus on "stats." Putting on the old game and watching it with dads is an emotional thing, not a logical one, and I'm just not a "football guy." And why would I even be posting in the thread at all if I don't want to be part of the circle jerk? An opinion is only valid if it agrees with the OP, and I've made it clear that I think football was invented when John Donovan was hired as OC.
For this analogy to be complete, let's say I played college football and coached at the highest level in a football state. And am an Army Ranger.
The point of the thread is to appreciate classic cars, not come in and tell people classic cars suck and a new GT3 911 is far superior. You don't get it, so fuck off.
The title of the thread came true as you know porn and a classic car when you see it and opinions may vary
Anyway if they are your cup o tea the Mecum Auto Auctions on NBC Sports Net may be the porn you are looking for
Emphasis on Classic Car Porn, which is why I don't understand why @1to392831weretaken is posting because none of what he's babbling on about has to do with classic cars. He has made it clear that anything more than 1 year old is shit in his opinion.
It's really simple:
Somebody starts a thread titled "classic football porn" in which he posts an old flickering newsreel of the mighty Sundodgers pounding some parked battleship's feeble skwaad in a riveting display of Run Left and Run Right. "Those were the days," several people agree.
"None of those pussy facemasks and real pads that work. None of that pussy 'forward pass' bullshit. Football came of age in this era."
"Look at this badass," @analingusDawg says, accompanying an old black and white photo of a doughy 5'6", 175 lb. offensive tackle in a leather helmet, bleeding out of his skull and missing 81% of his teeth."
I chime in--like a hero, I'd like to emphasize--and throw in my two cents that I don't get it. Nostalgia, sure, but the game has evolved in ways that are great, and it's more exciting, harder hitting, more complex, more balanced, and smarter now. Personally, I don't get the attraction.
Your response is that, yeah, of course a modern cornerback is bigger than most linemen back then and runs 4.5, but that's missing the point if I just focus on "stats." Putting on the old game and watching it with dads is an emotional thing, not a logical one, and I'm just not a "football guy." And why would I even be posting in the thread at all if I don't want to be part of the circle jerk? An opinion is only valid if it agrees with the OP, and I've made it clear that I think football was invented when John Donovan was hired as OC.
For this analogy to be complete, let's say I played college football and coached at the highest level in a football state. And am an Army Ranger.
The point of the thread is to appreciate classic cars, not come in and tell people classic cars suck and a new GT3 911 is far superior. You don't get it, so fuck off.
The point of a whole forum here is to appreciate Oregon football. Should nobody but DJDuck visit that whole forum?
Wait, bad example. It's totally true that nobody but DJDuck should visit that forum...
By the way, anyone know much about late 70's Corvette Stingrays? My 14 year old wants one for high school. I was surprised to learn you can get one in decent shape for under $20k.
Bad era for vettes in my opinion. After about 73 or so all the life had been choked out of them and this era had no power. They didn’t start to recover until the first ZR1 model into 1990.
My Dad as a Chevy dealer had a 1984 corvette well before the general public and that piece of shut only had 205 HP out of a 5.7 liter V8. Hell My wife’s MDX would smoke that era of vettes in 0-60.
By the way, anyone know much about late 70's Corvette Stingrays? My 14 year old wants one for high school. I was surprised to learn you can get one in decent shape for under $20k.
Bad era for vettes in my opinion. After about 73 or so all the life had been choked out of them and this era had no power. They didn’t start to recover until the first ZR1 model into 1990.
My Dad as a Chevy dealer had a 1984 corvette well before the general public and that piece of shut only had 205 HP out of a 5.7 liter V8. Hell My wife’s MDX would smoke that era of vettes in 0-60.
Thanks for the advice. This thread made me go check out an auction site call BaT. I'll have to show him a bunch of cool cars you can still get relatively cheap.
By the way, anyone know much about late 70's Corvette Stingrays? My 14 year old wants one for high school. I was surprised to learn you can get one in decent shape for under $20k.
Bad era for vettes in my opinion. After about 73 or so all the life had been choked out of them and this era had no power. They didn’t start to recover until the first ZR1 model into 1990.
My Dad as a Chevy dealer had a 1984 corvette well before the general public and that piece of shut only had 205 HP out of a 5.7 liter V8. Hell My wife’s MDX would smoke that era of vettes in 0-60.
Thanks for the advice. This thread made me go check out an auction site call BaT. I'll have to show him a bunch of cool cars you can still get relatively cheap.
98-02 F-bodies with the LS1 are great bang for buck if you want an American V8. Mustangs of that era are dogs in comparison until you move up to the 03 Cobras which were supercharged. You can find them with 50k on the odometer for under $15k. If he likes the style of that era Vette he might also like those.
By the way, anyone know much about late 70's Corvette Stingrays? My 14 year old wants one for high school. I was surprised to learn you can get one in decent shape for under $20k.
Bad era for vettes in my opinion. After about 73 or so all the life had been choked out of them and this era had no power. They didn’t start to recover until the first ZR1 model into 1990.
My Dad as a Chevy dealer had a 1984 corvette well before the general public and that piece of shut only had 205 HP out of a 5.7 liter V8. Hell My wife’s MDX would smoke that era of vettes in 0-60.
Thanks for the advice. This thread made me go check out an auction site call BaT. I'll have to show him a bunch of cool cars you can still get relatively cheap.
98-02 F-bodies with the LS1 are great bang for buck if you want an American V8. Mustangs of that era are dogs in comparison until you move up to the 03 Cobras which were supercharged. You can find them with 50k on the odometer for under $15k. If he likes the style of that era Vette he might also like those.
I went to the Bellevue Porsche dealership last weekend. It would be hard to pass on one of the news ones in favor of one from the 60s for about the same amount of money ... likely even less for a new one.
Comments
Look, I'm not here to argue taste and hobbies. I don't like 900 pound cruiser motorcycles, but a LOT of people do for various reasons. That's fine. I don't like old cars, but a LOT of people do for various reasons. That's fine. My whole contribution to this thread was simply, "I don't get it." Most people seem to form an emotional attachment to things from a certain era, and I just don't. I've always been function over form, and I've also always been objective with form vs. nostalgic. Everything I've ever thought was the "most beautiful X ever" has always looked at least a little dated to me given enough time. So I hopped on to say, "This is a thread that's right up my alley, but I'm going to be on the outside looking in."
Where I've officially entered a debate is when I'm told this attitude therefore excludes me from being "a car guy." Trust me: I'm not just some guy with a lifetime Road and Track subscription. And when it comes to people I'd love to talk cars with, I'd take noted non-car-guys by your definition Colin Chapman or Ross Brawn over any Shamwow jockey at a classic car show.
Also...
Anyway if they are your cup o tea the Mecum Auto Auctions on NBC Sports Net may be the porn you are looking for
Somebody starts a thread titled "classic football porn" in which he posts an old flickering newsreel of the mighty Sundodgers pounding some parked battleship's feeble skwaad in a riveting display of Run Left and Run Right. "Those were the days," several people agree.
"None of those pussy facemasks and real pads that work. None of that pussy 'forward pass' bullshit. Football came of age in this era."
"Look at this badass," @analingusDawg says, accompanying an old black and white photo of a doughy 5'6", 175 lb. offensive tackle in a leather helmet, bleeding out of his skull and missing 81% of his teeth."
I chime in--like a hero, I'd like to emphasize--and throw in my two cents that I don't get it. Nostalgia, sure, but the game has evolved in ways that are great, and it's more exciting, harder hitting, more complex, more balanced, and smarter now. Personally, I don't get the attraction.
Your response is that, yeah, of course a modern cornerback is bigger than most linemen back then and runs 4.5, but that's missing the point if I just focus on "stats." Putting on the old game and watching it with dads is an emotional thing, not a logical one, and I'm just not a "football guy." And why would I even be posting in the thread at all if I don't want to be part of the circle jerk? An opinion is only valid if it agrees with the OP, and I've made it clear that I think football was invented when John Donovan was hired as OC.
For this analogy to be complete, let's say I played college football and coached at the highest level in a football state. And am an Army Ranger.
Wait, bad example. It's totally true that nobody but DJDuck should visit that forum...
My Dad as a Chevy dealer had a 1984 corvette well before the general public and that piece of shut only had 205 HP out of a 5.7 liter V8. Hell My wife’s MDX would smoke that era of vettes in 0-60.
I went to the Bellevue Porsche dealership last weekend. It would be hard to pass on one of the news ones in favor of one from the 60s for about the same amount of money ... likely even less for a new one.
Still, those 60s era 356s are fucking beautiful.