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Welcome to the Hardcore Husky Forums. Folks who are well-known in Cyberland and not that dumb.

Academis questions for Creep

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  • WoofWoof Posts: 753
    2,500 Awesomes 1,000 Up Votes 250 Answers Fifth Anniversary

    whlinder said:

    Swaye said:

    Woof said:

    As a fellow Virginia resident, unless she's getting into McIntire, I agree that UW is probably better for the quant-ish stuff.

    For lowly liberal arts degrees, UVA or William and Mary are definitely better. UW is a relatively unknown quantity out here.

    Penn State is the ASU of the Northeast.

    Mostly true. If "lowly liberal arts degrees" include physics, psychology, sociology and math (just off the top of my head), and a smattering of other stuff, UW is actually better than UVa, and I'd expect it's better than W&M across the board ... at least in terms of department rankings, which is driven by research; something with which W&M can't compete with UW.

    UVa is going to have the prestige edge amongst the snooty smarty crowds, and it's better than UW in several/some things; and it's overall more selective and harder to get into than UW. So the Wall Street people will like it more, as just one example of how that plays out.

    Comp. Sci. or anything in the health sciences and UW is clearly better school. You're right that not everybody will know that, but at that level uninformed you shouldn't care.
    Agree with all of this, but to 99% of the world a UVA degree is an elite degree. UW is not. I say this as a UW grad (undergrad). UVA, whether deserved or not, is the east coast Berkeley (whether deserved or not). But maybe that is what you were saying anyway. English isn't my first language. And neither is Cuban.
    We speak Cuban here engin. I thought we? were clear at the time of the transfer of power.

    Agreed; UVa is the Berkeley and UNC Chapel Hill is the UCLA. The east coast doesn't have a lot of great public universities outside of the academies, which is a different kettle of fish altogether. The midwest and west are where that game is played best. Florida has become a very solid public U, as has Georgia. But they would suffer the same "ok" reputation rep as UW. UVa and UNC are acceptable to the academis elites. As far as publics, Cal is the better school, followed somewhat closely by Michigan, just IMO.
    Georgia Tech would like a word. To me GaTech is the 2nd best east coast public after UVa, and the best at anything science or quantitative.

    Penn State was ranked in the 60s last I recall. It's not awful. Maryland is.... ok. But I do agree with the premise, for as many people live up in the Northeast corridor there are precious few great public universities for them.
    One point you make is worth expanding upon. Penn State and rank. This is where I get a bad rep for academics elitism, but hear me out.

    One you leave the tippy top 10 or 15 schools, I've always believed you should just (1) go where you want and/or (2) where you can save money. So one of the latest crazes among people in my extended circle is kids choosing Alabama from PNW ... unheard of in my day. In the end, I would say no to my kids because I was willing to pay more for better. Not more so you can jump on the latest trend.

    But the truth be told, unless you are wanting a particular program (say, for example, UW engineering/comp. sci. vs. Arizona engineering or comp. sci), it doesn't really matter. Your experience at UW or Arizona or Oregon or WSU studying Poli Sci or English is probably going to be fairly comparable across the board. Do well at any of those places and you'll be able to get into grad school or do whatever just fine. Yeah, I think UW's student body talent will be a little deeper, just as it's a little deeper at Cal / UCLA / Furd than at UW, but on the margin it's not a huge deal. If you look at actual admit stats, the gap isn't that wide.

    So if a kid wants Penn State over, say, Maryland or University of South Carolina or Georgia, then why not? Go. Who cares whether a school is ranked 64th or 87th or 98th? It just doesn't matter that much, and those differences are driven largely by research stats that don't affect most undergrads anyway. It's like the W&M example someone brought up. W&M can't compete with UW, but they are as or slightly more selective, so the kids will be comparably smart and thus the education is going to be comparable. So, again, go where you want.

    If someone told me their kid got into Cal Tech or MIT but always had his heart set on Beav for engineering, I'd say change his fucking mind.
    I agree with 85% of this. I think the point you're underrating is related to elite career opportunities direct out of undergrad, and how that's impacted by school choice.

    To me, if you can get into a T25 school, and your kid actually wants to get an elite job, then they should definitely go to a top school. I work with a lot of Ivy undergrads, and some of them have told me they had no idea what they wanted to do when they graduated, but the number of job opportunities they had after school were immense. Schools in the top 40-50 will also have comparably better employment options than those in the 50-100 range. These aren't hard and fast tiers, but I think it's in line with what you were describing.

    In other words, if you want to work as an investment banker or consultant directly out of undergrad, your chances are 10x better at UVA then they are at UW. Your chances are probably 5x better at Wake Forest, William and Mary or Emory than they are at UW. For CompSci, the reverse is likely true. Part of this has to do with geography.

    Everyone gets another bite at the apple with grad school though, so you can absolutely go party for 4 years at average state school, get into a good master's program and have great opportunities. Every UW undergrad I've met in my line of work has gotten their job due to their masters/doctorate rather than their undergrad degree.

    I'd rate a UW undergrad degree somewhere between 50-75, and grad schools in the top 20. UVA is probably the inverse, with their undergrad top 20 and their grad schools more like top 30-40, with some specific exceptions like law and MBA being top 15.
    SwayedfleapawzFireCohen
  • creepycougcreepycoug Posts: 17,497
    Standard Supporter 10,000 Up Votes 10,000 Awesomes 10000 Comments
    Swaye said:

    Another pro tip: Go to an "elite" school, but not what they are actually elite at. The elite part rubs off on you anyway.

    Example: Yours truly, the degenerate that I am, got accepted into grad school at Johns Hopkins because they have this thing whereby they always took 5 Naval Officers per year into their grad programs - because the US Navy gives them like a bazillion dollars a year for research and stuff. So I only had to crack a top 5 to get in.

    Then, I went to the Whiting School of Engineering at Johns Hopkins. Not the Medical School. Engineering at JHU is not MIT, though to be fair it is actually pretty good (top 20 engineering school for sure) because of all the research dollars there, but it doesn't matter that it isn't the absolute tippy top, because just generally speaking JHU is thought of as a pretty seriously prestigious University to hail from. It's like people just assume you went to the Med School. So when we are talking Alma Maters out here around the water cooler and I say Hopkins, everyone thinks I'm some genius where really I'm a dumb fuck alcoholic who got into the school on a special welfare program for Navy retards. VICTORY!

    edit: This post made me think and care, so I went to check out US News rankings for the first time in over a decade. JHU is tied for 9th with Cal Tech and Northwestern (just general University rankings)! Fuck yeah, I'm thinking thats a few spots higher than when I went there. Redman just keeps on winning! Also surprised to see Stanford at 6. Though to be fair Creepy is sort of right that in that tippy top 10-15 it doesn't really matter that much. Princeton, Stanford, JHU, Duke, MIT, etc. It's sort of all the same. Nerds.

    You may have never been more spot on in your life. I totally agree with this. JH just gives you the benefit of the doubt. So the next tim some white devil is trying to shut you down in a bar argument and says "what the fuck do you know engin," he will stop in his tracks when your buddies say, "that fuckin' engin is a JHU grad. how bout you pale face?"

    And that will end the conversation. Point @Swaye .

    Seriously. You nailed it. JHU is just one of those names. It's also insanely hard (hee) to get in at the undergrad level. Not just med school.

    So, what, no Orkin? You must be running that shit now.
    SwayeYellowSnowPitchfork51
  • SwayeSwaye Posts: 35,439
    Swaye's Wigwam Solar Eclipse Donator 10,000 Up Votes 10,000 Awesomes

    Swaye said:

    Another pro tip: Go to an "elite" school, but not what they are actually elite at. The elite part rubs off on you anyway.

    Example: Yours truly, the degenerate that I am, got accepted into grad school at Johns Hopkins because they have this thing whereby they always took 5 Naval Officers per year into their grad programs - because the US Navy gives them like a bazillion dollars a year for research and stuff. So I only had to crack a top 5 to get in.

    Then, I went to the Whiting School of Engineering at Johns Hopkins. Not the Medical School. Engineering at JHU is not MIT, though to be fair it is actually pretty good (top 20 engineering school for sure) because of all the research dollars there, but it doesn't matter that it isn't the absolute tippy top, because just generally speaking JHU is thought of as a pretty seriously prestigious University to hail from. It's like people just assume you went to the Med School. So when we are talking Alma Maters out here around the water cooler and I say Hopkins, everyone thinks I'm some genius where really I'm a dumb fuck alcoholic who got into the school on a special welfare program for Navy retards. VICTORY!

    edit: This post made me think and care, so I went to check out US News rankings for the first time in over a decade. JHU is tied for 9th with Cal Tech and Northwestern (just general University rankings)! Fuck yeah, I'm thinking thats a few spots higher than when I went there. Redman just keeps on winning! Also surprised to see Stanford at 6. Though to be fair Creepy is sort of right that in that tippy top 10-15 it doesn't really matter that much. Princeton, Stanford, JHU, Duke, MIT, etc. It's sort of all the same. Nerds.

    You may have never been more spot on in your life. I totally agree with this. JH just gives you the benefit of the doubt. So the next tim some white devil is trying to shut you down in a bar argument and says "what the fuck do you know engin," he will stop in his tracks when your buddies say, "that fuckin' engin is a JHU grad. how bout you pale face?"

    And that will end the conversation. Point @Swaye .

    Seriously. You nailed it. JHU is just one of those names. It's also insanely hard (hee) to get in at the undergrad level. Not just med school.

    So, what, no Orkin? You must be running that shit now.
    I have fallen far. It's the bug life for me.
    creepycougPitchfork51
  • creepycougcreepycoug Posts: 17,497
    Standard Supporter 10,000 Up Votes 10,000 Awesomes 10000 Comments
    Woof said:

    whlinder said:

    Swaye said:

    Woof said:

    As a fellow Virginia resident, unless she's getting into McIntire, I agree that UW is probably better for the quant-ish stuff.

    For lowly liberal arts degrees, UVA or William and Mary are definitely better. UW is a relatively unknown quantity out here.

    Penn State is the ASU of the Northeast.

    Mostly true. If "lowly liberal arts degrees" include physics, psychology, sociology and math (just off the top of my head), and a smattering of other stuff, UW is actually better than UVa, and I'd expect it's better than W&M across the board ... at least in terms of department rankings, which is driven by research; something with which W&M can't compete with UW.

    UVa is going to have the prestige edge amongst the snooty smarty crowds, and it's better than UW in several/some things; and it's overall more selective and harder to get into than UW. So the Wall Street people will like it more, as just one example of how that plays out.

    Comp. Sci. or anything in the health sciences and UW is clearly better school. You're right that not everybody will know that, but at that level uninformed you shouldn't care.
    Agree with all of this, but to 99% of the world a UVA degree is an elite degree. UW is not. I say this as a UW grad (undergrad). UVA, whether deserved or not, is the east coast Berkeley (whether deserved or not). But maybe that is what you were saying anyway. English isn't my first language. And neither is Cuban.
    We speak Cuban here engin. I thought we? were clear at the time of the transfer of power.

    Agreed; UVa is the Berkeley and UNC Chapel Hill is the UCLA. The east coast doesn't have a lot of great public universities outside of the academies, which is a different kettle of fish altogether. The midwest and west are where that game is played best. Florida has become a very solid public U, as has Georgia. But they would suffer the same "ok" reputation rep as UW. UVa and UNC are acceptable to the academis elites. As far as publics, Cal is the better school, followed somewhat closely by Michigan, just IMO.
    Georgia Tech would like a word. To me GaTech is the 2nd best east coast public after UVa, and the best at anything science or quantitative.

    Penn State was ranked in the 60s last I recall. It's not awful. Maryland is.... ok. But I do agree with the premise, for as many people live up in the Northeast corridor there are precious few great public universities for them.
    One point you make is worth expanding upon. Penn State and rank. This is where I get a bad rep for academics elitism, but hear me out.

    One you leave the tippy top 10 or 15 schools, I've always believed you should just (1) go where you want and/or (2) where you can save money. So one of the latest crazes among people in my extended circle is kids choosing Alabama from PNW ... unheard of in my day. In the end, I would say no to my kids because I was willing to pay more for better. Not more so you can jump on the latest trend.

    But the truth be told, unless you are wanting a particular program (say, for example, UW engineering/comp. sci. vs. Arizona engineering or comp. sci), it doesn't really matter. Your experience at UW or Arizona or Oregon or WSU studying Poli Sci or English is probably going to be fairly comparable across the board. Do well at any of those places and you'll be able to get into grad school or do whatever just fine. Yeah, I think UW's student body talent will be a little deeper, just as it's a little deeper at Cal / UCLA / Furd than at UW, but on the margin it's not a huge deal. If you look at actual admit stats, the gap isn't that wide.

    So if a kid wants Penn State over, say, Maryland or University of South Carolina or Georgia, then why not? Go. Who cares whether a school is ranked 64th or 87th or 98th? It just doesn't matter that much, and those differences are driven largely by research stats that don't affect most undergrads anyway. It's like the W&M example someone brought up. W&M can't compete with UW, but they are as or slightly more selective, so the kids will be comparably smart and thus the education is going to be comparable. So, again, go where you want.

    If someone told me their kid got into Cal Tech or MIT but always had his heart set on Beav for engineering, I'd say change his fucking mind.
    I agree with 85% of this. I think the point you're underrating is related to elite career opportunities direct out of undergrad, and how that's impacted by school choice.

    To me, if you can get into a T25 school, and your kid actually wants to get an elite job, then they should definitely go to a top school. I work with a lot of Ivy undergrads, and some of them have told me they had no idea what they wanted to do when they graduated, but the number of job opportunities they had after school were immense. Schools in the top 40-50 will also have comparably better employment options than those in the 50-100 range. These aren't hard and fast tiers, but I think it's in line with what you were describing.

    In other words, if you want to work as an investment banker or consultant directly out of undergrad, your chances are 10x better at UVA then they are at UW. Your chances are probably 5x better at Wake Forest, William and Mary or Emory than they are at UW. For CompSci, the reverse is likely true. Part of this has to do with geography.

    Everyone gets another bite at the apple with grad school though, so you can absolutely go party for 4 years at average state school, get into a good master's program and have great opportunities. Every UW undergrad I've met in my line of work has gotten their job due to their masters/doctorate rather than their undergrad degree.

    I'd rate a UW undergrad degree somewhere between 50-75, and grad schools in the top 20. UVA is probably the inverse, with their undergrad top 20 and their grad schools more like top 30-40, with some specific exceptions like law and MBA being top 15.
    I agree with all that, so we're probably better than 85% agreement. It's just my shit, stream of consiousness drafting that probably caused confusion. You are spot on in every comment in that post. Just to amplify the point, the same would be true of the LAC crowd. If you are coming from Middlebury, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Swat, etc., you are going to have an easier time getting a job on Wall Street than you are from Williamette or UPS ... or UW for that matter. The bankers know what it takes to get into those schools and do well, and that's what they're hiring.

    If you want to get hired by Amazon to do web or other engineering, then UW is a pretty good platform.

    The other thing that is hard to get your hands around, but still is exists, is the trend of your grad schools pumping up your undergrad's reputation. This is happening at UW. You often see people cite that "Top 10 university in the world" ranking, which means nothing really for undergrad (that same ranking would put Arizona over Georgetown and Dartmouth because of the criteria for the ranking). But it affects perceptions.
    SwayeWoofYellowSnowDoog_de_Jour
  • FireCohenFireCohen Posts: 17,171
    10,000 Awesomes 10,000 Up Votes 10000 Comments 250 Answers
    Woof said:

    whlinder said:

    Swaye said:

    Woof said:

    As a fellow Virginia resident, unless she's getting into McIntire, I agree that UW is probably better for the quant-ish stuff.

    For lowly liberal arts degrees, UVA or William and Mary are definitely better. UW is a relatively unknown quantity out here.

    Penn State is the ASU of the Northeast.

    Mostly true. If "lowly liberal arts degrees" include physics, psychology, sociology and math (just off the top of my head), and a smattering of other stuff, UW is actually better than UVa, and I'd expect it's better than W&M across the board ... at least in terms of department rankings, which is driven by research; something with which W&M can't compete with UW.

    UVa is going to have the prestige edge amongst the snooty smarty crowds, and it's better than UW in several/some things; and it's overall more selective and harder to get into than UW. So the Wall Street people will like it more, as just one example of how that plays out.

    Comp. Sci. or anything in the health sciences and UW is clearly better school. You're right that not everybody will know that, but at that level uninformed you shouldn't care.
    Agree with all of this, but to 99% of the world a UVA degree is an elite degree. UW is not. I say this as a UW grad (undergrad). UVA, whether deserved or not, is the east coast Berkeley (whether deserved or not). But maybe that is what you were saying anyway. English isn't my first language. And neither is Cuban.
    We speak Cuban here engin. I thought we? were clear at the time of the transfer of power.

    Agreed; UVa is the Berkeley and UNC Chapel Hill is the UCLA. The east coast doesn't have a lot of great public universities outside of the academies, which is a different kettle of fish altogether. The midwest and west are where that game is played best. Florida has become a very solid public U, as has Georgia. But they would suffer the same "ok" reputation rep as UW. UVa and UNC are acceptable to the academis elites. As far as publics, Cal is the better school, followed somewhat closely by Michigan, just IMO.
    Georgia Tech would like a word. To me GaTech is the 2nd best east coast public after UVa, and the best at anything science or quantitative.

    Penn State was ranked in the 60s last I recall. It's not awful. Maryland is.... ok. But I do agree with the premise, for as many people live up in the Northeast corridor there are precious few great public universities for them.
    One point you make is worth expanding upon. Penn State and rank. This is where I get a bad rep for academics elitism, but hear me out.

    One you leave the tippy top 10 or 15 schools, I've always believed you should just (1) go where you want and/or (2) where you can save money. So one of the latest crazes among people in my extended circle is kids choosing Alabama from PNW ... unheard of in my day. In the end, I would say no to my kids because I was willing to pay more for better. Not more so you can jump on the latest trend.

    But the truth be told, unless you are wanting a particular program (say, for example, UW engineering/comp. sci. vs. Arizona engineering or comp. sci), it doesn't really matter. Your experience at UW or Arizona or Oregon or WSU studying Poli Sci or English is probably going to be fairly comparable across the board. Do well at any of those places and you'll be able to get into grad school or do whatever just fine. Yeah, I think UW's student body talent will be a little deeper, just as it's a little deeper at Cal / UCLA / Furd than at UW, but on the margin it's not a huge deal. If you look at actual admit stats, the gap isn't that wide.

    So if a kid wants Penn State over, say, Maryland or University of South Carolina or Georgia, then why not? Go. Who cares whether a school is ranked 64th or 87th or 98th? It just doesn't matter that much, and those differences are driven largely by research stats that don't affect most undergrads anyway. It's like the W&M example someone brought up. W&M can't compete with UW, but they are as or slightly more selective, so the kids will be comparably smart and thus the education is going to be comparable. So, again, go where you want.

    If someone told me their kid got into Cal Tech or MIT but always had his heart set on Beav for engineering, I'd say change his fucking mind.
    I agree with 85% of this. I think the point you're underrating is related to elite career opportunities direct out of undergrad, and how that's impacted by school choice.

    To me, if you can get into a T25 school, and your kid actually wants to get an elite job, then they should definitely go to a top school. I work with a lot of Ivy undergrads, and some of them have told me they had no idea what they wanted to do when they graduated, but the number of job opportunities they had after school were immense. Schools in the top 40-50 will also have comparably better employment options than those in the 50-100 range. These aren't hard and fast tiers, but I think it's in line with what you were describing.

    In other words, if you want to work as an investment banker or consultant directly out of undergrad, your chances are 10x better at UVA then they are at UW. Your chances are probably 5x better at Wake Forest, William and Mary or Emory than they are at UW. For CompSci, the reverse is likely true. Part of this has to do with geography.

    Everyone gets another bite at the apple with grad school though, so you can absolutely go party for 4 years at average state school, get into a good master's program and have great opportunities. Every UW undergrad I've met in my line of work has gotten their job due to their masters/doctorate rather than their undergrad degree.

    I'd rate a UW undergrad degree somewhere between 50-75, and grad schools in the top 20. UVA is probably the inverse, with their undergrad top 20 and their grad schools more like top 30-40, with some specific exceptions like law and MBA being top 15.
    This post fucks
    creepycougYellowSnow
  • YellowSnowYellowSnow Posts: 23,108
    Swaye's Wigwam 10,000 Up Votes 10,000 Awesomes 10000 Comments
    This thread really makes me feel bad about myself.


    creepycougPitchfork51Doog_de_Jourpawz
  • creepycougcreepycoug Posts: 17,497
    Standard Supporter 10,000 Up Votes 10,000 Awesomes 10000 Comments
    edited January 13

    This thread really makes me feel bad about myself.


    Maybe we start a rowboat thread. Rowboat = elitist college sport; elitist college sport = elitist + college; both elitism and college relevant to finance.

    Therefore, within acceptable bounds of discussion.
  • YellowSnowYellowSnow Posts: 23,108
    Swaye's Wigwam 10,000 Up Votes 10,000 Awesomes 10000 Comments

    This thread really makes me feel bad about myself.


    Maybe we start a rowboat thread. Rowboat = elitist college sport; elitist college sport = elitist + college; both elitism and college relevant to finance.

    Therefore, within acceptable bounds of discussion.

    creepycoug
  • FireCohenFireCohen Posts: 17,171
    10,000 Awesomes 10,000 Up Votes 10000 Comments 250 Answers

    Problem is that 18 year olds are supposed to have a clue what they want to do. What percentage actually do? Like 5, 10%?

    I say less.
    creepycoug
  • FireCohenFireCohen Posts: 17,171
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    edited January 13
    @YellowSnow how is lil piss doing these days? Showing signs of promising future or average? You can usually tell when a kid is a cleaver lil fuck
    creepycougPitchfork51
  • creepycougcreepycoug Posts: 17,497
    Standard Supporter 10,000 Up Votes 10,000 Awesomes 10000 Comments
    Agree with @FireCohen and @Pitchfork51 ... I would have been nervous if any of my kids were ballz to the wall sure they wanted to do "X" at 18 and then got into some narrow educational pursuit for it.

    One of the many reasons I'm a classic well-rounded education at undergrad guy. Travel light, keep your options open, get a good education that will enable you to move in a multitude of directions, and focus on it more toward the end of your undergrad rather than the beginning.

    This, of course, assumes you have a safety net. If you need to be making dollars day 1 after graduation, we have to have a different conversation.
    Doog_de_JourWoof
  • creepycougcreepycoug Posts: 17,497
    Standard Supporter 10,000 Up Votes 10,000 Awesomes 10000 Comments

    FireCohen said:

    @YellowSnow how is lil piss doing these days? Showing signs of promising future or average? You can usually tell when a kid is a cleaver lil fuck

    Too early to say. At age (almost) 7 there is the Rain Man like trait - which I have - for useless facts and trivia. But not sure how Maff will end up. Probably will end up a pour history major like me.
    Can translate to many other things. Not useless. Shows intellectual curiosity, which is a prerequisite to success in life. IMO.

    You lack that, and it's a miserable life in the Tug. No thanks.
    YellowSnowPitchfork51
  • FireCohenFireCohen Posts: 17,171
    10,000 Awesomes 10,000 Up Votes 10000 Comments 250 Answers

    Agree with @FireCohen and @Pitchfork51 ... I would have been nervous if any of my kids were ballz to the wall sure they wanted to do "X" at 18 and then got into some narrow educational pursuit for it.

    One of the many reasons I'm a classic well-rounded education at undergrad guy. Travel light, keep your options open, get a good education that will enable you to move in a multitude of directions, and focus on it more toward the end of your undergrad rather than the beginning.

    This, of course, assumes you have a safety net. If you need to be making dollars day 1 after graduation, we have to have a different conversation.

    First generation American here. Had to make mula day one. Can’t say how important this piece of paper (degree) is in order to make a decent living assuming you are just an average person.
    creepycougDoog_de_Jour
  • FireCohenFireCohen Posts: 17,171
    10,000 Awesomes 10,000 Up Votes 10000 Comments 250 Answers

    FireCohen said:

    @YellowSnow how is lil piss doing these days? Showing signs of promising future or average? You can usually tell when a kid is a cleaver lil fuck

    Too early to say. At age (almost) 7 there is the Rain Man like trait - which I have - for useless facts and trivia. But not sure how Maff will end up. Probably will end up a pour history major like me.
    Make his lil ass go to summer school for advance math and stuff. That shit will pay a huge dividend down the road (he will despise you for it). Wish my parents done that to me
    YellowSnowcreepycoug
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