I watched it through until Castor was, I presume, about half way through questions. Just after the "this is a really important point" comment at the point Sondland was basically reasserting the 2+2 = 4 bit. Then I had a meeting and then I had to run over here. It's hard pretending to be a lawyer.
If I'm on team Trump and I'm being honest, based only what I heard this morning, I take two things away thus far: (1) it's clear nobody's going to be able to say that Trump told them to do anything that touches upon "this for that"; and (2) we're getting some meat on the bone of what most of us have assumed/suspected/worried about for some time, which is that Rudy G. is clearly there to be Trump's buffer between orders and having to answer for them, a classic rich guy move. Tell me again why you guys hate lawyers so much.
Whatever is going on here, I don't believe that Rudy G. is ever off on a rogue frolic, nor do I believe that we should be in impeachment hearings. Seems to me the longer this goes on, the more likely it is that Trump wins re-election. The DNC would be smart to just drop all this, but it's way past that point now.
Good chit. @YellowSnow and I were chatting today and this is a more nuanced version of what we sort of think. The only person who could potentially know that Trump was trying to "bribe" Ukraine is Rudy, and he can't be compelled to testify as Trumps lawyer even if it is true, so all you are left with is a bunch of people who have thoughts and opinions on what happened, and lots of speculation, but zero hard evidence. The longer this goes the worse it looks for the Dems, because Americans, while dumb, are not so dumb as to see a continual line of witnesses get up and say I think maybe something happened here but Trump never ordered me to do it somehow means Trump is guilty.
Keep it up Schiff. We love it in the cheap seats.
Agreed, especially on the damage this is doing in real time to the as of yet unnamed shit show the DNC will choose to run. That guy/gal will really hate this whole circus when the campaign starts. It's kind of like Gangs of New York: when you kill a king, you see it through and you do it where everyone can see you do it. You don't "try" to do it; you don't show up to a gun fight with a sitting US President with just your dick in your hands.
That said, if you put a gun to my head and my life depended on the accuracy of my guess at the truth here, I'd say there was something there. I'd say Trump is a crafty old rich dood who knows how to position his lawyers and other flunkies between himself and the shit he sometimes wants to do. I don't think doing this would be beneath him. I could absolutely see him making a move on something like this, finding out later it's a no no and then protecting himself. So, sure, by the time Sondland blurts out "What do you want from Ukraine?", a question if asked of me in that manner would make me wonder if I were being recorded, he probably by then had been informed it wasn't ok to offer that trade or make that implied threat. I'm just being straight here ... that scenario, IMO, is well within Trump's wheel house. But we know he's not an alter boy, so I'm not really sure I care that much.
Only thing that really matters here is that this whole circus is yet another example of the left overplaying their hand. It's such a Cuog! move to do this. They really fucked up.
It may backfire on the Dems. I'm not arguing that point. It could. Realpolitik, and all that.
But you've agreed there's probably something there. To me, abuse of the most powerful office in the world and putting personal interests ahead of national interests are not trivial. Your response amounts to "boys will be boys". Are you saying impeachment should be explored only when public opinion already favors it?
I go back to my notes on Gangs of New York. You can't pick a big fight and show up to said fight with your dick in your hands. Sondland is probably going to be the most damaging witness because you can't impeach his credibility like you could Vindman. Sondland is pretty clearly a Trump-type guy and he's basically saying "4+4", but also saying "never told me to do anything." That's not good.
And, no, I don't think we should impeach a sitting US Pres. unless we can establish it with some degree of particularity. I get this isn't a capital offense case and the burden of proof isn't as severe, but impeaching a President is not w/o its costs. The allegedly bad behavior should be serious, it should be pretty clear it was committed and the decision to impeach should be proportionate to previous such votes.
I said if someone put a gun to my head because in that case I'd have to resort to conjecture and play my hand the best I could to save my brains from being blown out of my ear hole. In that case, I'd err on the side of caution because (1) I know Trump is willing to get dirt under his nails and has a flexible moral code, (2) he impulsively does shit his people have to later fix and (3) because Rudy G. is conspicuously positioned in all this and we know Rudy does shit too. So, yeah, from a distance, even a strident, but smart, supporter of Trump would be a little skeptical. I mean, that's basically what Sondland seems to have done (recognizing I didn't hear the whole thing btw).
I'm just saying it's not enough and agreeing with Swaye that the DNC was ill-advised to push this one.
The only reason the aid was provided without Z's public statement was because the President got caught. Does anyone even doubt that?
Even if true, Not enough to remove from office.
Does anyone doubt that?
In this day and age, I’m gratified to even get agreement on the facts. So do you agree that the aid got released because the President got caught?
It’s not what you think happened, but ultimately it’s what you can prove happened to remove from office. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t released because of that. So far we have no proof. So far we have no one criticizing the Call, that was supposed to be the trigger and origin of the impeachment hearings.
So far we have a grossly inexperienced diplomat, who bought himself an ambassador role, opinion that it was qpq. He refused to state as fact when pressed though.
Trump was doing Trump Shit. But there’s not enough here. If the Dems were smart, they would pull the plug on this in favor of Censure.
But they aren’t. So they won’t.
But to borrow from Creepy, gun to your head, did the hold get lifted on September 11 because the President got caught? You can’t seriously be saying you have no belief about that.
No it did not
The testimony makes that clear
If you think that allows you to bow out gracefully then by all means do so but you got nothing. At all
I watched it through until Castor was, I presume, about half way through questions. Just after the "this is a really important point" comment at the point Sondland was basically reasserting the 2+2 = 4 bit. Then I had a meeting and then I had to run over here. It's hard pretending to be a lawyer.
If I'm on team Trump and I'm being honest, based only what I heard this morning, I take two things away thus far: (1) it's clear nobody's going to be able to say that Trump told them to do anything that touches upon "this for that"; and (2) we're getting some meat on the bone of what most of us have assumed/suspected/worried about for some time, which is that Rudy G. is clearly there to be Trump's buffer between orders and having to answer for them, a classic rich guy move. Tell me again why you guys hate lawyers so much.
Whatever is going on here, I don't believe that Rudy G. is ever off on a rogue frolic, nor do I believe that we should be in impeachment hearings. Seems to me the longer this goes on, the more likely it is that Trump wins re-election. The DNC would be smart to just drop all this, but it's way past that point now.
Good chit. @YellowSnow and I were chatting today and this is a more nuanced version of what we sort of think. The only person who could potentially know that Trump was trying to "bribe" Ukraine is Rudy, and he can't be compelled to testify as Trumps lawyer even if it is true, so all you are left with is a bunch of people who have thoughts and opinions on what happened, and lots of speculation, but zero hard evidence. The longer this goes the worse it looks for the Dems, because Americans, while dumb, are not so dumb as to see a continual line of witnesses get up and say I think maybe something happened here but Trump never ordered me to do it somehow means Trump is guilty.
Keep it up Schiff. We love it in the cheap seats.
Agreed, especially on the damage this is doing in real time to the as of yet unnamed shit show the DNC will choose to run. That guy/gal will really hate this whole circus when the campaign starts. It's kind of like Gangs of New York: when you kill a king, you see it through and you do it where everyone can see you do it. You don't "try" to do it; you don't show up to a gun fight with a sitting US President with just your dick in your hands.
That said, if you put a gun to my head and my life depended on the accuracy of my guess at the truth here, I'd say there was something there. I'd say Trump is a crafty old rich dood who knows how to position his lawyers and other flunkies between himself and the shit he sometimes wants to do. I don't think doing this would be beneath him. I could absolutely see him making a move on something like this, finding out later it's a no no and then protecting himself. So, sure, by the time Sondland blurts out "What do you want from Ukraine?", a question if asked of me in that manner would make me wonder if I were being recorded, he probably by then had been informed it wasn't ok to offer that trade or make that implied threat. I'm just being straight here ... that scenario, IMO, is well within Trump's wheel house. But we know he's not an alter boy, so I'm not really sure I care that much.
Only thing that really matters here is that this whole circus is yet another example of the left overplaying their hand. It's such a Cuog! move to do this. They really fucked up.
It may backfire on the Dems. I'm not arguing that point. It could. Realpolitik, and all that.
But you've agreed there's probably something there. To me, abuse of the most powerful office in the world and putting personal interests ahead of national interests are not trivial. Your response amounts to "boys will be boys". Are you saying impeachment should be explored only when public opinion already favors it?
1) Define what abuse of power is?
2) Having a buffer between yourself and those carrying things out isn’t exclusive to this sitting President ... it’s true for likely every sitting President and occurs in most every C-Suite in Corporate America ... the whole plausible deniability thing
3) If Biden wasn’t running for President and an investigation was launched would there be any uproar? It seems pretty clear to me that there is some smoke there. Are the Biden’s untouchable because Joe is in the race right now? Nobody seemingly is talking about this.
The reality is that the Dems don’t have a strong candidate and they know it. Everything they are doing is trying to discredit Trump compared to saying why their message is better.
The timing of all of this speaks volumes. We’re inside a year of the 2020 election ... easiest way to remove Trump is to beat him next November ... if you can
All they are doing is reminding a lot of people why they voted for Trump in 2016
A 37 year old mayor of some BFE Midwest college town is leading in the Iowa Dem Cockus polling . How fucktarded has the Democratic party these days? They are the folks that got Trump elected in the first place and are going to re-elect him again.
We can all concede that Will Rogers was right about the Democratic Party. That’s not much of a denial that Daddy did what he’s accused of.
I am now thinking @CirrhosisDawg is a Never Trumper posing as a progressive nutball trying to make neo-con something something conservatives (shout out @YellowSnow@creepycoug ) look bad.
I watched it through until Castor was, I presume, about half way through questions. Just after the "this is a really important point" comment at the point Sondland was basically reasserting the 2+2 = 4 bit. Then I had a meeting and then I had to run over here. It's hard pretending to be a lawyer.
If I'm on team Trump and I'm being honest, based only what I heard this morning, I take two things away thus far: (1) it's clear nobody's going to be able to say that Trump told them to do anything that touches upon "this for that"; and (2) we're getting some meat on the bone of what most of us have assumed/suspected/worried about for some time, which is that Rudy G. is clearly there to be Trump's buffer between orders and having to answer for them, a classic rich guy move. Tell me again why you guys hate lawyers so much.
Whatever is going on here, I don't believe that Rudy G. is ever off on a rogue frolic, nor do I believe that we should be in impeachment hearings. Seems to me the longer this goes on, the more likely it is that Trump wins re-election. The DNC would be smart to just drop all this, but it's way past that point now.
Good chit. @YellowSnow and I were chatting today and this is a more nuanced version of what we sort of think. The only person who could potentially know that Trump was trying to "bribe" Ukraine is Rudy, and he can't be compelled to testify as Trumps lawyer even if it is true, so all you are left with is a bunch of people who have thoughts and opinions on what happened, and lots of speculation, but zero hard evidence. The longer this goes the worse it looks for the Dems, because Americans, while dumb, are not so dumb as to see a continual line of witnesses get up and say I think maybe something happened here but Trump never ordered me to do it somehow means Trump is guilty.
Keep it up Schiff. We love it in the cheap seats.
Agreed, especially on the damage this is doing in real time to the as of yet unnamed shit show the DNC will choose to run. That guy/gal will really hate this whole circus when the campaign starts. It's kind of like Gangs of New York: when you kill a king, you see it through and you do it where everyone can see you do it. You don't "try" to do it; you don't show up to a gun fight with a sitting US President with just your dick in your hands.
That said, if you put a gun to my head and my life depended on the accuracy of my guess at the truth here, I'd say there was something there. I'd say Trump is a crafty old rich dood who knows how to position his lawyers and other flunkies between himself and the shit he sometimes wants to do. I don't think doing this would be beneath him. I could absolutely see him making a move on something like this, finding out later it's a no no and then protecting himself. So, sure, by the time Sondland blurts out "What do you want from Ukraine?", a question if asked of me in that manner would make me wonder if I were being recorded, he probably by then had been informed it wasn't ok to offer that trade or make that implied threat. I'm just being straight here ... that scenario, IMO, is well within Trump's wheel house. But we know he's not an alter boy, so I'm not really sure I care that much.
Only thing that really matters here is that this whole circus is yet another example of the left overplaying their hand. It's such a Cuog! move to do this. They really fucked up.
From the beginning this whole thing has looked like a lot of career politicians attempting to take the new guy for a ride. To some degree it has worked. On the other hand, it might get Trump re-elected soundly and has failed to remove him from office.
What does three years old have to do with anything?
When the facts are against you talk about how old the story is?
Any article written on the moon landing that's more than 3 years old obviously can't be true. Kunt logic, is there anything it can't do?
Have you thought about why there is no coverage on this supposedly HUGE story within the last couple months or even within the last year? Even your favorite news sources haven't picked it up. But since this is the only article that supports your narrative you will continue to cling to it as the sole source of truth. Bitchass partisan Kunt.
President Trump's personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, has repeatedly called on Ukraine to investigate claims of collusion in favour of Hillary Clinton and he has been in regular contact with the prosecutor general, Yuriy Lutsenko.
Now Mr Lutsenko has breathed new life into the story, announcing a new investigation, and citing a court ruling that Ukrainians unlawfully interfered in the 2016 election.
Mr Giuliani also wants Kiev to look into claims that former Vice-President and 2020 Democrat contender Joe Biden may have got Ukraine's then top prosecutor fired to help his son's business interests.
Was there collusion? The collusion narrative is based around the summer 2016 publication of a "black ledger" in Ukraine which showed off-the-book payments to Paul Manafort.
Manafort, 69, was jailed by a US court in March for fraud, in part for his work as an adviser for a pro-Russian political party in Ukraine, before he became President Donald Trump's campaigner manager.
Ex-Trump campaign chief sentenced for fraud Manafort: Trump's former campaign chair It was the black ledger payment revelations that forced Manafort to resign from the Trump campaign.
Those arguing that there was collusion, among them Mr Giuliani, allege that the ledger might be fake and that it was maliciously leaked after contacts between Mr Trump's Democrat opponents and Ukrainian diplomats.
Ukraine's prosecutor general gave Mr Giuliani's claims a boost this week by announcing that he was investigating Ukrainian MP Sergiy Leshchenko, who has admitted to being behind the publication of some of the pages of the black ledger.
This article says nothing other than Giuliani is doing Trump's bidding by spreading the conspiracy around. Why hasn't there been a follow up to Politico's report from early 2017?
Ukraine's prosecutor general gave Mr Giuliani's claims a boost this week by announcing that he was investigating Ukrainian MP Sergiy Leshchenko, who has admitted to being behind the publication of some of the pages of the black ledger.
Ukraine's prosecutor general gave Mr Giuliani's claims a boost this week by announcing that he was investigating Ukrainian MP Sergiy Leshchenko, who has admitted to being behind the publication of some of the pages of the black ledger.
this fucking week asshole
Fuckers just run their mouths. They don't even bother to read anything 3 years old!!!!!
Of course you morons have predictably attacked career state officials and military vets to protect the orange draft dodger but I've yet to see a coherent defense or explanation of what you believe transpired.
I think we can at least acknowledge the following are facts: -Aid to Ukraine was withheld -Trump wanted Zelensky to publicly announce that he was investigating Biden
Are we supposed to believe that these weren't related? I thought you all had moved on to "quid pro quo is okay" but you are still calling all witnesses as liars. So what is the current narrative about what happened?
Obviously Daddy is surrounded by people who just assume he wants them to take multiple unethical and felonious actions on his behalf. #MobBossWasn'tExplicit
Speaking of felonies you never answered my question.
If your question wasn't rhetorical, the Mall should definitely ask you to turn in your badge.
Copy you agree Clinton committed a felony. The surprising thing is they actually disbarred him.
Bill Clinton was a scumbag, which is unfortunate because I generally liked his politics. He was almost conservative is many respects.
But a scumbag he was. He's not alone, but when you really dig into Bill you have to conclude he's not a good guy. No, I don't believe the tin foil hat stories about pizza stores and pedo coverups. I'll need something direct on that one. But rambling on about the Clintons is hardly a persuastive technique. Anybody who knows anything knows the Clintons, Bill much more so than Hillary IMO, was/is a dirt bag.
I think the two are pretty equal we just hear less about Hillary. Her secret service agents have interesting stories.
Can confirm. I personally know a SS Agent that was on her detail and the stories are amazing. She's a piece of work.
A good friend of mine is also family with SS and further terrible stories are told regularly. IDRGAF at the end of the day as I think all politicians are awful people but it's interesting to hear what a foregone fact this is from so many people in that circle.
I am now thinking @CirrhosisDawg is a Never Trumper posing as a progressive nutball trying to make neo-con something something conservatives (shout out @YellowSnow@creepycoug ) look bad.
As this has played out I have been Trumptrash fighting in the gutter because that's how we roll in construction. You hurt me, I hurt you worse. (shout out to Criminal with Kevin Costner, good movie with Wonder Woman in it)
Name calling you got it.
But when you start seeing people that actually don't like Trump make reasonable arguments about what a shit show this has been you have to step back and think that maybe the partisan hack shill piece of trash is you @CirrhosisDawg
Self reflection is good for you. So is refraction. Give it a rest
I am now thinking @CirrhosisDawg is a Never Trumper posing as a progressive nutball trying to make neo-con something something conservatives (shout out @YellowSnow@creepycoug ) look bad.
As this has played out I have been Trumptrash fighting in the gutter because that's how we roll in construction. You hurt me, I hurt you worse. (shout out to Criminal with Kevin Costner, good movie with Wonder Woman in it)
Name calling you got it.
But when you start seeing people that actually don't like Trump make reasonable arguments about what a shit show this has been you have to step back and think that maybe the partisan hack shill piece of trash is you @CirrhosisDawg
Self reflection is good for you. So is refraction. Give it a rest
@DoogieMcDoogerson feels reassured by this post because it’s 1000x better than everything he’s watching on cable tv news today.
Of course you morons have predictably attacked career state officials and military vets to protect the orange draft dodger but I've yet to see a coherent defense or explanation of what you believe transpired.
I think we can at least acknowledge the following are facts: -Aid to Ukraine was withheld -Trump wanted Zelensky to publicly announce that he was investigating Biden
Are we supposed to believe that these weren't related? I thought you all had moved on to "quid pro quo is okay" but you are still calling all witnesses as liars. So what is the current narrative about what happened?
Obviously Daddy is surrounded by people who just assume he wants them to take multiple unethical and felonious actions on his behalf. #MobBossWasn'tExplicit
Speaking of felonies you never answered my question.
If your question wasn't rhetorical, the Mall should definitely ask you to turn in your badge.
Copy you agree Clinton committed a felony. The surprising thing is they actually disbarred him.
Bill Clinton was a scumbag, which is unfortunate because I generally liked his politics. He was almost conservative is many respects.
But a scumbag he was. He's not alone, but when you really dig into Bill you have to conclude he's not a good guy. No, I don't believe the tin foil hat stories about pizza stores and pedo coverups. I'll need something direct on that one. But rambling on about the Clintons is hardly a persuastive technique. Anybody who knows anything knows the Clintons, Bill much more so than Hillary IMO, was/is a dirt bag.
I think the two are pretty equal we just hear less about Hillary. Her secret service agents have interesting stories.
Can confirm. I personally know a SS Agent that was on her detail and the stories are amazing. She's a piece of work.
A good friend of mine is also family with SS and further terrible stories are told regularly. IDRGAF at the end of the day as I think all politicians are awful people but it's interesting to hear what a foregone fact this is from so many people in that circle.
Oldest daughter's HS boyfriend ... his dad was SS. Can also confirm from him that she is, at best, a really, really, really not nice person. Talks down to everybody, barks, yells ... just a giant piece of shit as a human being.
I do think she's judged a little differently as a woman in that she'd get tagged with shit that might not stick as much if she were a big burly dude. But hey, we're an evolving animal and our society changes but not overnight. So tough shit on that point.
I don't think she's stupid (that's absurd), and I think she pays a price for lacking slickness (like William Jefferson and Barak have in spades), but overall from every corner of any little connection I have to anybody who'd be remotely qualified to say, she's a giant piece of shit and very mean and unlikeable human being.
Ukraine's prosecutor general gave Mr Giuliani's claims a boost this week by announcing that he was investigating Ukrainian MP Sergiy Leshchenko, who has admitted to being behind the publication of some of the pages of the black ledger.
this fucking week asshole
Fuckers just run their mouths. They don't even bother to read anything 3 years old!!!!!
Continuing to peddle Russian conspiracy theories is a strange hill to die. I'm sure within a year or two you'll deny ever talking about this one. Just like Pizzagate. Just like Uranium One.
Ukraine's prosecutor general gave Mr Giuliani's claims a boost this week by announcing that he was investigating Ukrainian MP Sergiy Leshchenko, who has admitted to being behind the publication of some of the pages of the black ledger.
this fucking week asshole
Fuckers just run their mouths. They don't even bother to read anything 3 years old!!!!!
Continuing to peddle Russian conspiracy theories is a strange hill to die. I'm sure within a year or two you'll deny ever talking about this one. Just like Pizzagate. Just like Uranium One.
Are you completely and utterly un self aware?
The democrats have been peddling Russian bullshit since before the election and you have been here parroting every bit of it
Of course you morons have predictably attacked career state officials and military vets to protect the orange draft dodger but I've yet to see a coherent defense or explanation of what you believe transpired.
I think we can at least acknowledge the following are facts: -Aid to Ukraine was withheld -Trump wanted Zelensky to publicly announce that he was investigating Biden
Are we supposed to believe that these weren't related? I thought you all had moved on to "quid pro quo is okay" but you are still calling all witnesses as liars. So what is the current narrative about what happened?
Obviously Daddy is surrounded by people who just assume he wants them to take multiple unethical and felonious actions on his behalf. #MobBossWasn'tExplicit
Speaking of felonies you never answered my question.
If your question wasn't rhetorical, the Mall should definitely ask you to turn in your badge.
Copy you agree Clinton committed a felony. The surprising thing is they actually disbarred him.
Bill Clinton was a scumbag, which is unfortunate because I generally liked his politics. He was almost conservative is many respects.
But a scumbag he was. He's not alone, but when you really dig into Bill you have to conclude he's not a good guy. No, I don't believe the tin foil hat stories about pizza stores and pedo coverups. I'll need something direct on that one. But rambling on about the Clintons is hardly a persuastive technique. Anybody who knows anything knows the Clintons, Bill much more so than Hillary IMO, was/is a dirt bag.
I think the two are pretty equal we just hear less about Hillary. Her secret service agents have interesting stories.
Can confirm. I personally know a SS Agent that was on her detail and the stories are amazing. She's a piece of work.
A good friend of mine is also family with SS and further terrible stories are told regularly. IDRGAF at the end of the day as I think all politicians are awful people but it's interesting to hear what a foregone fact this is from so many people in that circle.
Oldest daughter's HS boyfriend ... his dad was SS. Can also confirm from him that she is, at best, a really, really, really not nice person. Talks down to everybody, barks, yells ... just a giant piece of shit as a human being.
I do think she's judged a little differently as a woman in that she'd get tagged with shit that might not stick as much if she were a big burly dude. But hey, we're an evolving animal and our society changes but not overnight. So tough shit on that point.
I don't think she's stupid (that's absurd), and I think she pays a price for lacking slickness (like William Jefferson and Barak have in spades), but overall from every corner of any little connection I have to anybody who'd be remotely qualified to say, she's a giant piece of shit and very mean and unlikeable human being.
SS guy I personally know says that he would guard her bedroom door in the morning and when she walked out he said "Good morning Ma'am" as was customary and she responded with "Fuck you." Think about that for a second. "Fuck you" to a guy tasked with taking a bullet for you. This isn't secondhand info. Direct to me from the person guarding her. She is a complete piece of shit. At least the guy got himself switched off her detail and onto Gore. Gore is a retard, but he isn't a terrible human being.
I watched it through until Castor was, I presume, about half way through questions. Just after the "this is a really important point" comment at the point Sondland was basically reasserting the 2+2 = 4 bit. Then I had a meeting and then I had to run over here. It's hard pretending to be a lawyer.
If I'm on team Trump and I'm being honest, based only what I heard this morning, I take two things away thus far: (1) it's clear nobody's going to be able to say that Trump told them to do anything that touches upon "this for that"; and (2) we're getting some meat on the bone of what most of us have assumed/suspected/worried about for some time, which is that Rudy G. is clearly there to be Trump's buffer between orders and having to answer for them, a classic rich guy move. Tell me again why you guys hate lawyers so much.
Whatever is going on here, I don't believe that Rudy G. is ever off on a rogue frolic, nor do I believe that we should be in impeachment hearings. Seems to me the longer this goes on, the more likely it is that Trump wins re-election. The DNC would be smart to just drop all this, but it's way past that point now.
Good chit. @YellowSnow and I were chatting today and this is a more nuanced version of what we sort of think. The only person who could potentially know that Trump was trying to "bribe" Ukraine is Rudy, and he can't be compelled to testify as Trumps lawyer even if it is true, so all you are left with is a bunch of people who have thoughts and opinions on what happened, and lots of speculation, but zero hard evidence. The longer this goes the worse it looks for the Dems, because Americans, while dumb, are not so dumb as to see a continual line of witnesses get up and say I think maybe something happened here but Trump never ordered me to do it somehow means Trump is guilty.
Keep it up Schiff. We love it in the cheap seats.
Agreed, especially on the damage this is doing in real time to the as of yet unnamed shit show the DNC will choose to run. That guy/gal will really hate this whole circus when the campaign starts. It's kind of like Gangs of New York: when you kill a king, you see it through and you do it where everyone can see you do it. You don't "try" to do it; you don't show up to a gun fight with a sitting US President with just your dick in your hands.
That said, if you put a gun to my head and my life depended on the accuracy of my guess at the truth here, I'd say there was something there. I'd say Trump is a crafty old rich dood who knows how to position his lawyers and other flunkies between himself and the shit he sometimes wants to do. I don't think doing this would be beneath him. I could absolutely see him making a move on something like this, finding out later it's a no no and then protecting himself. So, sure, by the time Sondland blurts out "What do you want from Ukraine?", a question if asked of me in that manner would make me wonder if I were being recorded, he probably by then had been informed it wasn't ok to offer that trade or make that implied threat. I'm just being straight here ... that scenario, IMO, is well within Trump's wheel house. But we know he's not an alter boy, so I'm not really sure I care that much.
Only thing that really matters here is that this whole circus is yet another example of the left overplaying their hand. It's such a Cuog! move to do this. They really fucked up.
It may backfire on the Dems. I'm not arguing that point. It could. Realpolitik, and all that.
But you've agreed there's probably something there. To me, abuse of the most powerful office in the world and putting personal interests ahead of national interests are not trivial. Your response amounts to "boys will be boys". Are you saying impeachment should be explored only when public opinion already favors it?
1) Define what abuse of power is?
2) Having a buffer between yourself and those carrying things out isn’t exclusive to this sitting President ... it’s true for likely every sitting President and occurs in most every C-Suite in Corporate America ... the whole plausible deniability thing
3) If Biden wasn’t running for President and an investigation was launched would there be any uproar? It seems pretty clear to me that there is some smoke there. Are the Biden’s untouchable because Joe is in the race right now? Nobody seemingly is talking about this.
The reality is that the Dems don’t have a strong candidate and they know it. Everything they are doing is trying to discredit Trump compared to saying why their message is better.
The timing of all of this speaks volumes. We’re inside a year of the 2020 election ... easiest way to remove Trump is to beat him next November ... if you can
All they are doing is reminding a lot of people why they voted for Trump in 2016
A 37 year old mayor of some BFE Midwest college town is leading in the Iowa Dem Cockus polling . How fucktarded has the Democratic party these days? They are the folks that got Trump elected in the first place and are going to re-elect him again.
We can all concede that Will Rogers was right about the Democratic Party. That’s not much of a denial that Daddy did what he’s accused of.
Elections matter. I gave that cunt Hillary $100.00 because I didn't want that boob in the White House, and was willing to have gridlock and let Congress lock her up if need be. The American people knew Trump was greasy AF before the election and still voted for him because they didn't like what the Dem's are selling them. Now they are they are doubling down on the same bull shit.
Ukraine's prosecutor general gave Mr Giuliani's claims a boost this week by announcing that he was investigating Ukrainian MP Sergiy Leshchenko, who has admitted to being behind the publication of some of the pages of the black ledger.
this fucking week asshole
Fuckers just run their mouths. They don't even bother to read anything 3 years old!!!!!
Continuing to peddle Russian conspiracy theories is a strange hill to die. I'm sure within a year or two you'll deny ever talking about this one. Just like Pizzagate. Just like Uranium One.
Are you completely and utterly un self aware?
The democrats have been peddling Russian bullshit since before the election and you have been here parroting every bit of it
How many Russians got indicted and charged for election meddling and how many Ukrainians?
I watched it through until Castor was, I presume, about half way through questions. Just after the "this is a really important point" comment at the point Sondland was basically reasserting the 2+2 = 4 bit. Then I had a meeting and then I had to run over here. It's hard pretending to be a lawyer.
If I'm on team Trump and I'm being honest, based only what I heard this morning, I take two things away thus far: (1) it's clear nobody's going to be able to say that Trump told them to do anything that touches upon "this for that"; and (2) we're getting some meat on the bone of what most of us have assumed/suspected/worried about for some time, which is that Rudy G. is clearly there to be Trump's buffer between orders and having to answer for them, a classic rich guy move. Tell me again why you guys hate lawyers so much.
Whatever is going on here, I don't believe that Rudy G. is ever off on a rogue frolic, nor do I believe that we should be in impeachment hearings. Seems to me the longer this goes on, the more likely it is that Trump wins re-election. The DNC would be smart to just drop all this, but it's way past that point now.
Good chit. @YellowSnow and I were chatting today and this is a more nuanced version of what we sort of think. The only person who could potentially know that Trump was trying to "bribe" Ukraine is Rudy, and he can't be compelled to testify as Trumps lawyer even if it is true, so all you are left with is a bunch of people who have thoughts and opinions on what happened, and lots of speculation, but zero hard evidence. The longer this goes the worse it looks for the Dems, because Americans, while dumb, are not so dumb as to see a continual line of witnesses get up and say I think maybe something happened here but Trump never ordered me to do it somehow means Trump is guilty.
Keep it up Schiff. We love it in the cheap seats.
Agreed, especially on the damage this is doing in real time to the as of yet unnamed shit show the DNC will choose to run. That guy/gal will really hate this whole circus when the campaign starts. It's kind of like Gangs of New York: when you kill a king, you see it through and you do it where everyone can see you do it. You don't "try" to do it; you don't show up to a gun fight with a sitting US President with just your dick in your hands.
That said, if you put a gun to my head and my life depended on the accuracy of my guess at the truth here, I'd say there was something there. I'd say Trump is a crafty old rich dood who knows how to position his lawyers and other flunkies between himself and the shit he sometimes wants to do. I don't think doing this would be beneath him. I could absolutely see him making a move on something like this, finding out later it's a no no and then protecting himself. So, sure, by the time Sondland blurts out "What do you want from Ukraine?", a question if asked of me in that manner would make me wonder if I were being recorded, he probably by then had been informed it wasn't ok to offer that trade or make that implied threat. I'm just being straight here ... that scenario, IMO, is well within Trump's wheel house. But we know he's not an alter boy, so I'm not really sure I care that much.
Only thing that really matters here is that this whole circus is yet another example of the left overplaying their hand. It's such a Cuog! move to do this. They really fucked up.
It may backfire on the Dems. I'm not arguing that point. It could. Realpolitik, and all that.
But you've agreed there's probably something there. To me, abuse of the most powerful office in the world and putting personal interests ahead of national interests are not trivial. Your response amounts to "boys will be boys". Are you saying impeachment should be explored only when public opinion already favors it?
1) Define what abuse of power is?
2) Having a buffer between yourself and those carrying things out isn’t exclusive to this sitting President ... it’s true for likely every sitting President and occurs in most every C-Suite in Corporate America ... the whole plausible deniability thing
3) If Biden wasn’t running for President and an investigation was launched would there be any uproar? It seems pretty clear to me that there is some smoke there. Are the Biden’s untouchable because Joe is in the race right now? Nobody seemingly is talking about this.
The reality is that the Dems don’t have a strong candidate and they know it. Everything they are doing is trying to discredit Trump compared to saying why their message is better.
The timing of all of this speaks volumes. We’re inside a year of the 2020 election ... easiest way to remove Trump is to beat him next November ... if you can
All they are doing is reminding a lot of people why they voted for Trump in 2016
A 37 year old mayor of some BFE Midwest college town is leading in the Iowa Dem Cockus polling . How fucktarded has the Democratic party these days? They are the folks that got Trump elected in the first place and are going to re-elect him again.
We can all concede that Will Rogers was right about the Democratic Party. That’s not much of a denial that Daddy did what he’s accused of.
Elections matter. I gave that cunt Hillary $100.00 because I didn't want that boob in the White House, and was willing to have gridlock and let Congress lock her up if need be. The American people knew Trump was greasy AF before the election and still voted for him because they didn't like what the Dem's are selling them. Now they are they are doubling down on the same bull shit.
I watched it through until Castor was, I presume, about half way through questions. Just after the "this is a really important point" comment at the point Sondland was basically reasserting the 2+2 = 4 bit. Then I had a meeting and then I had to run over here. It's hard pretending to be a lawyer.
If I'm on team Trump and I'm being honest, based only what I heard this morning, I take two things away thus far: (1) it's clear nobody's going to be able to say that Trump told them to do anything that touches upon "this for that"; and (2) we're getting some meat on the bone of what most of us have assumed/suspected/worried about for some time, which is that Rudy G. is clearly there to be Trump's buffer between orders and having to answer for them, a classic rich guy move. Tell me again why you guys hate lawyers so much.
Whatever is going on here, I don't believe that Rudy G. is ever off on a rogue frolic, nor do I believe that we should be in impeachment hearings. Seems to me the longer this goes on, the more likely it is that Trump wins re-election. The DNC would be smart to just drop all this, but it's way past that point now.
Good chit. @YellowSnow and I were chatting today and this is a more nuanced version of what we sort of think. The only person who could potentially know that Trump was trying to "bribe" Ukraine is Rudy, and he can't be compelled to testify as Trumps lawyer even if it is true, so all you are left with is a bunch of people who have thoughts and opinions on what happened, and lots of speculation, but zero hard evidence. The longer this goes the worse it looks for the Dems, because Americans, while dumb, are not so dumb as to see a continual line of witnesses get up and say I think maybe something happened here but Trump never ordered me to do it somehow means Trump is guilty.
Keep it up Schiff. We love it in the cheap seats.
Agreed, especially on the damage this is doing in real time to the as of yet unnamed shit show the DNC will choose to run. That guy/gal will really hate this whole circus when the campaign starts. It's kind of like Gangs of New York: when you kill a king, you see it through and you do it where everyone can see you do it. You don't "try" to do it; you don't show up to a gun fight with a sitting US President with just your dick in your hands.
That said, if you put a gun to my head and my life depended on the accuracy of my guess at the truth here, I'd say there was something there. I'd say Trump is a crafty old rich dood who knows how to position his lawyers and other flunkies between himself and the shit he sometimes wants to do. I don't think doing this would be beneath him. I could absolutely see him making a move on something like this, finding out later it's a no no and then protecting himself. So, sure, by the time Sondland blurts out "What do you want from Ukraine?", a question if asked of me in that manner would make me wonder if I were being recorded, he probably by then had been informed it wasn't ok to offer that trade or make that implied threat. I'm just being straight here ... that scenario, IMO, is well within Trump's wheel house. But we know he's not an alter boy, so I'm not really sure I care that much.
Only thing that really matters here is that this whole circus is yet another example of the left overplaying their hand. It's such a Cuog! move to do this. They really fucked up.
It may backfire on the Dems. I'm not arguing that point. It could. Realpolitik, and all that.
But you've agreed there's probably something there. To me, abuse of the most powerful office in the world and putting personal interests ahead of national interests are not trivial. Your response amounts to "boys will be boys". Are you saying impeachment should be explored only when public opinion already favors it?
1) Define what abuse of power is?
2) Having a buffer between yourself and those carrying things out isn’t exclusive to this sitting President ... it’s true for likely every sitting President and occurs in most every C-Suite in Corporate America ... the whole plausible deniability thing
3) If Biden wasn’t running for President and an investigation was launched would there be any uproar? It seems pretty clear to me that there is some smoke there. Are the Biden’s untouchable because Joe is in the race right now? Nobody seemingly is talking about this.
The reality is that the Dems don’t have a strong candidate and they know it. Everything they are doing is trying to discredit Trump compared to saying why their message is better.
The timing of all of this speaks volumes. We’re inside a year of the 2020 election ... easiest way to remove Trump is to beat him next November ... if you can
All they are doing is reminding a lot of people why they voted for Trump in 2016
A 37 year old mayor of some BFE Midwest college town is leading in the Iowa Dem Cockus polling . How fucktarded has the Democratic party these days? They are the folks that got Trump elected in the first place and are going to re-elect him again.
We can all concede that Will Rogers was right about the Democratic Party. That’s not much of a denial that Daddy did what he’s accused of.
Elections matter. I gave that cunt Hillary $100.00 because I didn't want that boob in the White House, and was willing to have gridlock and let Congress lock her up if need be. The American people knew Trump was greasy AF before the election and still voted for him because they didn't like what the Dem's are selling them. Now they are they are doubling down on the same bull shit.
Disagree. Yellow is an honest man. I am the Pasadena chair for the campaign to elevate him to his rightful position as emperor of the inland empire. I didn’t have a problem with creep’s posts today either. The reason is neither of them are disingenuous, dishonest and duplicitous as you and the other 11 trumptrash that post here daily.
I watched it through until Castor was, I presume, about half way through questions. Just after the "this is a really important point" comment at the point Sondland was basically reasserting the 2+2 = 4 bit. Then I had a meeting and then I had to run over here. It's hard pretending to be a lawyer.
If I'm on team Trump and I'm being honest, based only what I heard this morning, I take two things away thus far: (1) it's clear nobody's going to be able to say that Trump told them to do anything that touches upon "this for that"; and (2) we're getting some meat on the bone of what most of us have assumed/suspected/worried about for some time, which is that Rudy G. is clearly there to be Trump's buffer between orders and having to answer for them, a classic rich guy move. Tell me again why you guys hate lawyers so much.
Whatever is going on here, I don't believe that Rudy G. is ever off on a rogue frolic, nor do I believe that we should be in impeachment hearings. Seems to me the longer this goes on, the more likely it is that Trump wins re-election. The DNC would be smart to just drop all this, but it's way past that point now.
Good chit. @YellowSnow and I were chatting today and this is a more nuanced version of what we sort of think. The only person who could potentially know that Trump was trying to "bribe" Ukraine is Rudy, and he can't be compelled to testify as Trumps lawyer even if it is true, so all you are left with is a bunch of people who have thoughts and opinions on what happened, and lots of speculation, but zero hard evidence. The longer this goes the worse it looks for the Dems, because Americans, while dumb, are not so dumb as to see a continual line of witnesses get up and say I think maybe something happened here but Trump never ordered me to do it somehow means Trump is guilty.
Keep it up Schiff. We love it in the cheap seats.
Agreed, especially on the damage this is doing in real time to the as of yet unnamed shit show the DNC will choose to run. That guy/gal will really hate this whole circus when the campaign starts. It's kind of like Gangs of New York: when you kill a king, you see it through and you do it where everyone can see you do it. You don't "try" to do it; you don't show up to a gun fight with a sitting US President with just your dick in your hands.
That said, if you put a gun to my head and my life depended on the accuracy of my guess at the truth here, I'd say there was something there. I'd say Trump is a crafty old rich dood who knows how to position his lawyers and other flunkies between himself and the shit he sometimes wants to do. I don't think doing this would be beneath him. I could absolutely see him making a move on something like this, finding out later it's a no no and then protecting himself. So, sure, by the time Sondland blurts out "What do you want from Ukraine?", a question if asked of me in that manner would make me wonder if I were being recorded, he probably by then had been informed it wasn't ok to offer that trade or make that implied threat. I'm just being straight here ... that scenario, IMO, is well within Trump's wheel house. But we know he's not an alter boy, so I'm not really sure I care that much.
Only thing that really matters here is that this whole circus is yet another example of the left overplaying their hand. It's such a Cuog! move to do this. They really fucked up.
It may backfire on the Dems. I'm not arguing that point. It could. Realpolitik, and all that.
But you've agreed there's probably something there. To me, abuse of the most powerful office in the world and putting personal interests ahead of national interests are not trivial. Your response amounts to "boys will be boys". Are you saying impeachment should be explored only when public opinion already favors it?
1) Define what abuse of power is?
2) Having a buffer between yourself and those carrying things out isn’t exclusive to this sitting President ... it’s true for likely every sitting President and occurs in most every C-Suite in Corporate America ... the whole plausible deniability thing
3) If Biden wasn’t running for President and an investigation was launched would there be any uproar? It seems pretty clear to me that there is some smoke there. Are the Biden’s untouchable because Joe is in the race right now? Nobody seemingly is talking about this.
The reality is that the Dems don’t have a strong candidate and they know it. Everything they are doing is trying to discredit Trump compared to saying why their message is better.
The timing of all of this speaks volumes. We’re inside a year of the 2020 election ... easiest way to remove Trump is to beat him next November ... if you can
All they are doing is reminding a lot of people why they voted for Trump in 2016
A 37 year old mayor of some BFE Midwest college town is leading in the Iowa Dem Cockus polling . How fucktarded has the Democratic party these days? They are the folks that got Trump elected in the first place and are going to re-elect him again.
We can all concede that Will Rogers was right about the Democratic Party. That’s not much of a denial that Daddy did what he’s accused of.
Elections matter. I gave that cunt Hillary $100.00 because I didn't want that boob in the White House, and was willing to have gridlock and let Congress lock her up if need be. The American people knew Trump was greasy AF before the election and still voted for him because they didn't like what the Dem's are selling them. Now they are they are doubling down on the same bull shit.
Disagree. Yellow is an honest man. I am the Pasadena chair for the campaign to elevate him to his rightful position as emperor of the inland empire. I didn’t have a problem with creep’s posts today either. The reason is neither of them are disingenuous, dishonest and duplicitous as you and the other 11 trumptrash that post here daily.
And yet they agree with me so how disingenuous and dishonest can I be?
You got hondo and @insinceredawg . Nice team. I'll take @Swaye and the rest any day
I can be erudite and intellectual but fuck it why put my pearls before swine like you?
I watched it through until Castor was, I presume, about half way through questions. Just after the "this is a really important point" comment at the point Sondland was basically reasserting the 2+2 = 4 bit. Then I had a meeting and then I had to run over here. It's hard pretending to be a lawyer.
If I'm on team Trump and I'm being honest, based only what I heard this morning, I take two things away thus far: (1) it's clear nobody's going to be able to say that Trump told them to do anything that touches upon "this for that"; and (2) we're getting some meat on the bone of what most of us have assumed/suspected/worried about for some time, which is that Rudy G. is clearly there to be Trump's buffer between orders and having to answer for them, a classic rich guy move. Tell me again why you guys hate lawyers so much.
Whatever is going on here, I don't believe that Rudy G. is ever off on a rogue frolic, nor do I believe that we should be in impeachment hearings. Seems to me the longer this goes on, the more likely it is that Trump wins re-election. The DNC would be smart to just drop all this, but it's way past that point now.
Good chit. @YellowSnow and I were chatting today and this is a more nuanced version of what we sort of think. The only person who could potentially know that Trump was trying to "bribe" Ukraine is Rudy, and he can't be compelled to testify as Trumps lawyer even if it is true, so all you are left with is a bunch of people who have thoughts and opinions on what happened, and lots of speculation, but zero hard evidence. The longer this goes the worse it looks for the Dems, because Americans, while dumb, are not so dumb as to see a continual line of witnesses get up and say I think maybe something happened here but Trump never ordered me to do it somehow means Trump is guilty.
Keep it up Schiff. We love it in the cheap seats.
Agreed, especially on the damage this is doing in real time to the as of yet unnamed shit show the DNC will choose to run. That guy/gal will really hate this whole circus when the campaign starts. It's kind of like Gangs of New York: when you kill a king, you see it through and you do it where everyone can see you do it. You don't "try" to do it; you don't show up to a gun fight with a sitting US President with just your dick in your hands.
That said, if you put a gun to my head and my life depended on the accuracy of my guess at the truth here, I'd say there was something there. I'd say Trump is a crafty old rich dood who knows how to position his lawyers and other flunkies between himself and the shit he sometimes wants to do. I don't think doing this would be beneath him. I could absolutely see him making a move on something like this, finding out later it's a no no and then protecting himself. So, sure, by the time Sondland blurts out "What do you want from Ukraine?", a question if asked of me in that manner would make me wonder if I were being recorded, he probably by then had been informed it wasn't ok to offer that trade or make that implied threat. I'm just being straight here ... that scenario, IMO, is well within Trump's wheel house. But we know he's not an alter boy, so I'm not really sure I care that much.
Only thing that really matters here is that this whole circus is yet another example of the left overplaying their hand. It's such a Cuog! move to do this. They really fucked up.
It may backfire on the Dems. I'm not arguing that point. It could. Realpolitik, and all that.
But you've agreed there's probably something there. To me, abuse of the most powerful office in the world and putting personal interests ahead of national interests are not trivial. Your response amounts to "boys will be boys". Are you saying impeachment should be explored only when public opinion already favors it?
1) Define what abuse of power is?
2) Having a buffer between yourself and those carrying things out isn’t exclusive to this sitting President ... it’s true for likely every sitting President and occurs in most every C-Suite in Corporate America ... the whole plausible deniability thing
3) If Biden wasn’t running for President and an investigation was launched would there be any uproar? It seems pretty clear to me that there is some smoke there. Are the Biden’s untouchable because Joe is in the race right now? Nobody seemingly is talking about this.
The reality is that the Dems don’t have a strong candidate and they know it. Everything they are doing is trying to discredit Trump compared to saying why their message is better.
The timing of all of this speaks volumes. We’re inside a year of the 2020 election ... easiest way to remove Trump is to beat him next November ... if you can
All they are doing is reminding a lot of people why they voted for Trump in 2016
A 37 year old mayor of some BFE Midwest college town is leading in the Iowa Dem Cockus polling . How fucktarded has the Democratic party these days? They are the folks that got Trump elected in the first place and are going to re-elect him again.
We can all concede that Will Rogers was right about the Democratic Party. That’s not much of a denial that Daddy did what he’s accused of.
Elections matter. I gave that cunt Hillary $100.00 because I didn't want that boob in the White House, and was willing to have gridlock and let Congress lock her up if need be. The American people knew Trump was greasy AF before the election and still voted for him because they didn't like what the Dem's are selling them. Now they are they are doubling down on the same bull shit.
Disagree. Yellow is an honest man. I am the Pasadena chair for the campaign to elevate him to his rightful position as emperor of the inland empire. I didn’t have a problem with creep’s posts today either. The reason is neither of them are disingenuous, dishonest and duplicitous as you and the other 11 trumptrash that post here daily.
Ukraine's prosecutor general gave Mr Giuliani's claims a boost this week by announcing that he was investigating Ukrainian MP Sergiy Leshchenko, who has admitted to being behind the publication of some of the pages of the black ledger.
this fucking week asshole
Fuckers just run their mouths. They don't even bother to read anything 3 years old!!!!!
Continuing to peddle Russian conspiracy theories is a strange hill to die. I'm sure within a year or two you'll deny ever talking about this one. Just like Pizzagate. Just like Uranium One.
Are you completely and utterly un self aware?
The democrats have been peddling Russian bullshit since before the election and you have been here parroting every bit of it
How many Russians got indicted and charged for election meddling and how many Ukrainians?
So that's a yes on you being completely un self aware
Comments
The testimony makes that clear
If you think that allows you to bow out gracefully then by all means do so but you got nothing. At all
Liar or moron Kunt? Take your pick.
Name calling you got it.
But when you start seeing people that actually don't like Trump make reasonable arguments about what a shit show this has been you have to step back and think that maybe the partisan hack shill piece of trash is you @CirrhosisDawg
Self reflection is good for you. So is refraction. Give it a rest
I do think she's judged a little differently as a woman in that she'd get tagged with shit that might not stick as much if she were a big burly dude. But hey, we're an evolving animal and our society changes but not overnight. So tough shit on that point.
I don't think she's stupid (that's absurd), and I think she pays a price for lacking slickness (like William Jefferson and Barak have in spades), but overall from every corner of any little connection I have to anybody who'd be remotely qualified to say, she's a giant piece of shit and very mean and unlikeable human being.
The democrats have been peddling Russian bullshit since before the election and you have been here parroting every bit of it
You got hondo and @insinceredawg . Nice team. I'll take @Swaye and the rest any day
I can be erudite and intellectual but fuck it why put my pearls before swine like you?