The $2.5 trillion reason we can’t rely on batteries to clean up the grid Fluctuating solar and wind power require lots of energy storage, and lithium-ion batteries seem like the obvious choice—but they are far too expensive to play a major role.
When alternative energy scales for mass consumption someone will be there to cash in. It's not like nobody is working on it just because we dont have massive government intervention
Carbon purveyors have been cleaning some things up since the 60s
They’ve dragged their feet for decades. But you’re right. Traditional utilities have diversified into wind and solar at an increasing rate. The government could incentivize then to escalate that progress and we’d probably be better off. Better for the environment. Better for National security.
Even if you increase solar and wind, you still have to build the infrastructure for fossil fuel electrical generation. There's no way to store energy generated by wind and solar for the periods when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining.
I am aware that things are not currently set up for this. I’m saying we should set things up like this.
The technology for electrical storage on a massive scale doesn't exist.
Decentralized models are already effective at curbing waste and costs.
Where are all those decentralized electrical generation plants?
On the roof of a house. With a battery to store the excess and run at night.
Combine that with a transition away from coal towards nuclear power and you’d be making some serious gains.
So what's the charge time for your Tesla? 14 years?
When alternative energy scales for mass consumption someone will be there to cash in. It's not like nobody is working on it just because we dont have massive government intervention
Carbon purveyors have been cleaning some things up since the 60s
They’ve dragged their feet for decades. But you’re right. Traditional utilities have diversified into wind and solar at an increasing rate. The government could incentivize then to escalate that progress and we’d probably be better off. Better for the environment. Better for National security.
Even if you increase solar and wind, you still have to build the infrastructure for fossil fuel electrical generation. There's no way to store energy generated by wind and solar for the periods when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining.
I am aware that things are not currently set up for this. I’m saying we should set things up like this.
The technology for electrical storage on a massive scale doesn't exist.
Decentralized models are already effective at curbing waste and costs.
Where are all those decentralized electrical generation plants?
On the roof of a house. With a battery to store the excess and run at night.
Combine that with a transition away from coal towards nuclear power and you’d be making some serious gains.
So what's the charge time for your Tesla? 14 years?
Have you heard of a high speed charger? I know a few people that have driven thru Montana and such.
It's ignorant people like you that are afraid of change that stifle advancement and technology.
When alternative energy scales for mass consumption someone will be there to cash in. It's not like nobody is working on it just because we dont have massive government intervention
Carbon purveyors have been cleaning some things up since the 60s
They’ve dragged their feet for decades. But you’re right. Traditional utilities have diversified into wind and solar at an increasing rate. The government could incentivize then to escalate that progress and we’d probably be better off. Better for the environment. Better for National security.
Even if you increase solar and wind, you still have to build the infrastructure for fossil fuel electrical generation. There's no way to store energy generated by wind and solar for the periods when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining.
I am aware that things are not currently set up for this. I’m saying we should set things up like this.
The technology for electrical storage on a massive scale doesn't exist.
Decentralized models are already effective at curbing waste and costs.
Where are all those decentralized electrical generation plants?
On the roof of a house. With a battery to store the excess and run at night.
Combine that with a transition away from coal towards nuclear power and you’d be making some serious gains.
So what's the charge time for your Tesla? 14 years?
Have you heard of a high speed charger? I know a few people that have driven thru Montana and such.
It's ignorant people like you that are afraid of change that stifle advancement and technology.
Really a house solar system high sorry charged at night? You are special!
Driving up the 5 in Kali I see a while bunch of Tesla's. Parked at Harris ranch trying to charge because they're stranded.
When alternative energy scales for mass consumption someone will be there to cash in. It's not like nobody is working on it just because we dont have massive government intervention
Carbon purveyors have been cleaning some things up since the 60s
They’ve dragged their feet for decades. But you’re right. Traditional utilities have diversified into wind and solar at an increasing rate. The government could incentivize then to escalate that progress and we’d probably be better off. Better for the environment. Better for National security.
Even if you increase solar and wind, you still have to build the infrastructure for fossil fuel electrical generation. There's no way to store energy generated by wind and solar for the periods when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining.
I am aware that things are not currently set up for this. I’m saying we should set things up like this.
The technology for electrical storage on a massive scale doesn't exist.
Decentralized models are already effective at curbing waste and costs.
Where are all those decentralized electrical generation plants?
On the roof of a house. With a battery to store the excess and run at night.
Combine that with a transition away from coal towards nuclear power and you’d be making some serious gains.
So what's the charge time for your Tesla? 14 years?
Have you heard of a high speed charger? I know a few people that have driven thru Montana and such.
It's ignorant people like you that are afraid of change that stifle advancement and technology.
Really a house solar system high sorry charged at night? You are special!
Driving up the 5 in Kali I see a while bunch of Tesla's. Parked at Harris ranch trying to charge because they're stranded.
What if you live in Wyoming, and it's the middle of winter and the temperature doesn't get above 15 degrees for a week. Is solar power going to generate enough energy to keep that house warm? Same question applies to living on the coast in the NW. There were times during the winter growing up on the Oregon coast were you didn't see the sun for weeks and it rained every day. What do those people do?
When alternative energy scales for mass consumption someone will be there to cash in. It's not like nobody is working on it just because we dont have massive government intervention
Carbon purveyors have been cleaning some things up since the 60s
They’ve dragged their feet for decades. But you’re right. Traditional utilities have diversified into wind and solar at an increasing rate. The government could incentivize then to escalate that progress and we’d probably be better off. Better for the environment. Better for National security.
Even if you increase solar and wind, you still have to build the infrastructure for fossil fuel electrical generation. There's no way to store energy generated by wind and solar for the periods when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining.
I am aware that things are not currently set up for this. I’m saying we should set things up like this.
The technology for electrical storage on a massive scale doesn't exist.
Decentralized models are already effective at curbing waste and costs.
Where are all those decentralized electrical generation plants?
On the roof of a house. With a battery to store the excess and run at night.
Combine that with a transition away from coal towards nuclear power and you’d be making some serious gains.
This doesn't work at scale for business or industry. It barely works for residential. Full stop.
Nuclear baseload, solar for daytime usage, and natural gas for ramp up or ramp down. Offset by reforestation and curbing desertification. These are the droids you are looking for.
There's no other possible engineering solution with available technology unless you want forced rationing.
When alternative energy scales for mass consumption someone will be there to cash in. It's not like nobody is working on it just because we dont have massive government intervention
Carbon purveyors have been cleaning some things up since the 60s
They’ve dragged their feet for decades. But you’re right. Traditional utilities have diversified into wind and solar at an increasing rate. The government could incentivize then to escalate that progress and we’d probably be better off. Better for the environment. Better for National security.
Even if you increase solar and wind, you still have to build the infrastructure for fossil fuel electrical generation. There's no way to store energy generated by wind and solar for the periods when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining.
I am aware that things are not currently set up for this. I’m saying we should set things up like this.
The technology for electrical storage on a massive scale doesn't exist.
Decentralized models are already effective at curbing waste and costs.
There is no technology for electrical storage on a massive scale, your response doesn't even address that fact and is essentially meaningless gibberish.
Not quite true.
The next gen of lithium storage will be markedly better than current systems. I've seen some pretty cool stuff for commercial and residential systems.
That doesn't address a car's capacity -because then it becomes a weight vs. size vs. power issue. You could put a big ass battery in a Tesla but you'd lose the back seat. The nerds will eventually figure that shit out. But that's apples and oranges vs. wide scale storage of renewable energy.
And, trust me, I'm a dig shit out of the ground guy. Drill, baby, drill. Natural gas is the interim solution while the other technology catches up over the next five years or so.
Or whenever the world is scheduled to end. 10 year 8 months now?
Cancel all oil subsidies and we can talk about where the money should go.
Define 'subsidies'.
The tax advantages oil companies get relative to accelerating exploration costs and depreciable assets aren't much different than the tax incentives renewable companies receive.
When alternative energy scales for mass consumption someone will be there to cash in. It's not like nobody is working on it just because we dont have massive government intervention
Carbon purveyors have been cleaning some things up since the 60s
They’ve dragged their feet for decades. But you’re right. Traditional utilities have diversified into wind and solar at an increasing rate. The government could incentivize then to escalate that progress and we’d probably be better off. Better for the environment. Better for National security.
Even if you increase solar and wind, you still have to build the infrastructure for fossil fuel electrical generation. There's no way to store energy generated by wind and solar for the periods when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining.
I am aware that things are not currently set up for this. I’m saying we should set things up like this.
The technology for electrical storage on a massive scale doesn't exist.
Decentralized models are already effective at curbing waste and costs.
There is no technology for electrical storage on a massive scale, your response doesn't even address that fact and is essentially meaningless gibberish.
Not quite true.
The next gen of lithium storage will be markedly better than current systems. I've seen some pretty cool stuff for commercial and residential systems.
That doesn't address a car's capacity -because then it becomes a weight vs. size vs. power issue. You could put a big ass battery in a Tesla but you'd lose the back seat. The nerds will eventually figure that shit out. But that's apples and oranges vs. wide scale storage of renewable energy.
And, trust me, I'm a dig shit out of the ground guy. Drill, baby, drill. Natural gas is the interim solution while the other technology catches up over the next five years or so.
Or whenever the world is scheduled to end. 10 year 8 months now?
When alternative energy scales for mass consumption someone will be there to cash in. It's not like nobody is working on it just because we dont have massive government intervention
Carbon purveyors have been cleaning some things up since the 60s
They’ve dragged their feet for decades. But you’re right. Traditional utilities have diversified into wind and solar at an increasing rate. The government could incentivize then to escalate that progress and we’d probably be better off. Better for the environment. Better for National security.
Even if you increase solar and wind, you still have to build the infrastructure for fossil fuel electrical generation. There's no way to store energy generated by wind and solar for the periods when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining.
I am aware that things are not currently set up for this. I’m saying we should set things up like this.
The technology for electrical storage on a massive scale doesn't exist.
Decentralized models are already effective at curbing waste and costs.
There is no technology for electrical storage on a massive scale, your response doesn't even address that fact and is essentially meaningless gibberish.
Not quite true.
The next gen of lithium storage will be markedly better than current systems. I've seen some pretty cool stuff for commercial and residential systems.
That doesn't address a car's capacity -because then it becomes a weight vs. size vs. power issue. You could put a big ass battery in a Tesla but you'd lose the back seat. The nerds will eventually figure that shit out. But that's apples and oranges vs. wide scale storage of renewable energy.
And, trust me, I'm a dig shit out of the ground guy. Drill, baby, drill. Natural gas is the interim solution while the other technology catches up over the next five years or so.
Or whenever the world is scheduled to end. 10 year 8 months now?
There is a lot of promising battery tech comming down the pipe. I hope a different flavor of battery storage passes up Lithium Ion. Lithium mining is pretty shitty for the environment.
There was a good Nat Geo article the other month about how one of the largest Lithium deposits lies in the world's largest salt flat in Bolivia, the Salar de Uyuni. It's a place where drug tourist go to trip and look at stars. I'm a strong supporter of battery tech but I'm an even stronger supporter of hallucinagenic drug trips in cool places.
When alternative energy scales for mass consumption someone will be there to cash in. It's not like nobody is working on it just because we dont have massive government intervention
Carbon purveyors have been cleaning some things up since the 60s
They’ve dragged their feet for decades. But you’re right. Traditional utilities have diversified into wind and solar at an increasing rate. The government could incentivize then to escalate that progress and we’d probably be better off. Better for the environment. Better for National security.
Even if you increase solar and wind, you still have to build the infrastructure for fossil fuel electrical generation. There's no way to store energy generated by wind and solar for the periods when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining.
I am aware that things are not currently set up for this. I’m saying we should set things up like this.
The technology for electrical storage on a massive scale doesn't exist.
Decentralized models are already effective at curbing waste and costs.
There is no technology for electrical storage on a massive scale, your response doesn't even address that fact and is essentially meaningless gibberish.
Not quite true.
The next gen of lithium storage will be markedly better than current systems. I've seen some pretty cool stuff for commercial and residential systems.
That doesn't address a car's capacity -because then it becomes a weight vs. size vs. power issue. You could put a big ass battery in a Tesla but you'd lose the back seat. The nerds will eventually figure that shit out. But that's apples and oranges vs. wide scale storage of renewable energy.
And, trust me, I'm a dig shit out of the ground guy. Drill, baby, drill. Natural gas is the interim solution while the other technology catches up over the next five years or so.
Or whenever the world is scheduled to end. 10 year 8 months now?
There is a lot of promising battery tech comming down the pipe. I hope a different flavor of battery storage passes up Lithium Ion. Lithium mining is pretty shitty for the environment.
There was a good Nat Geo article the other month about how one of the largest Lithium deposits lies in the world's largest salt flat in Bolivia, the Salar de Uyuni. It's a place where drug tourist go to trip and look at stars. I'm a strong supporter of battery tech but I'm an even stronger supporter of hallucinagenic drug trips in cool places.
Not really. Reclamation projects in extraction industries are highly bonded This ain't the 70's when mining companies just walked away and left Superfund cleanup sites. Lots of times mines are replaced with golf courses or they fill up the pits with water and build homes/2nd homes around the new 'lake'. Whole different beast than the greenies want to portray.
You're sorta getting into my wheelhouse here. Sort of. Extraction, money, joobs. Not necessarily in that order.
LOL SFGbob's source is the Manhattan Institute JFC
And MIT but Kunt's got to Kunt. You really believe I can't find that exact same information from other sources? The numbers are what they are, they didn't make them up.
Comments
Fluctuating solar and wind power require lots of energy storage, and lithium-ion batteries seem like the obvious choice—but they are far too expensive to play a major role.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/611683/the-25-trillion-reason-we-cant-rely-on-batteries-to-clean-up-the-grid/
It's ignorant people like you that are afraid of change that stifle advancement and technology.
Oil is only vital to our way of life and economy. No big deal really.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/drillinginfo/2016/02/22/debunking-myths-about-federal-oil-gas-subsidies/#8ec76976e1cd
Driving up the 5 in Kali I see a while bunch of Tesla's. Parked at Harris ranch trying to charge because they're stranded.
Nuclear baseload, solar for daytime usage, and natural gas for ramp up or ramp down. Offset by reforestation and curbing desertification. These are the droids you are looking for.
There's no other possible engineering solution with available technology unless you want forced rationing.
The next gen of lithium storage will be markedly better than current systems. I've seen some pretty cool stuff for commercial and residential systems.
That doesn't address a car's capacity -because then it becomes a weight vs. size vs. power issue. You could put a big ass battery in a Tesla but you'd lose the back seat. The nerds will eventually figure that shit out. But that's apples and oranges vs. wide scale storage of renewable energy.
And, trust me, I'm a dig shit out of the ground guy. Drill, baby, drill. Natural gas is the interim solution while the other technology catches up over the next five years or so.
Or whenever the world is scheduled to end. 10 year 8 months now?
The tax advantages oil companies get relative to accelerating exploration costs and depreciable assets aren't much different than the tax incentives renewable companies receive.
There was a good Nat Geo article the other month about how one of the largest Lithium deposits lies in the world's largest salt flat in Bolivia, the Salar de Uyuni. It's a place where drug tourist go to trip and look at stars. I'm a strong supporter of battery tech but I'm an even stronger supporter of hallucinagenic drug trips in cool places.
You're sorta getting into my wheelhouse here. Sort of. Extraction, money, joobs. Not necessarily in that order.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/611683/the-25-trillion-reason-we-cant-rely-on-batteries-to-clean-up-the-grid/