This was a bad movie, and I mean structurally. It was such a bad film structurally that I am floored that the rotten tomatoes scores aren't reversed. That it's not 50% critics and 90% audience pretty much states implicitly that they are bought and paid for and there's not a single one who deserves to state they know anything about film. It's perfectly fine to enjoy some schlock, but acting like it's quality is to be in denial.
Let's start with the overuse of exposition dialogue. Now you can argue these films are geared towards a younger audience, who might need a bit more explanation as to what's happening, but there was way too much of it. "They've got a ram!" "Oh no they can use it to destroy the door!" "We have to destroy it before they use it to destroy the door!" It's completely unnecessary. "That is a big gun..." tells the audience everything they need to know, it's a gun, and they are capable of figuring out that it probably needs to be taken out. The characters know this too. Speaking it aloud is unnatural and awkward.
Inappropriate comedy is next. There was simply too much of it. This is the middle chapter of a trilogy, and every 30 seconds it was Poe, Finn, Porgs, BB8, Hux, Chewie, or Yoda interrupting with a zing or a sight gag. Most of the cast was devoted to making jokes in a war setting. It's a clash to begin with and should be used sparingly to relieve tense moments, not add up to half the film.
The False time constraint of the chase was a huge mistake. 18 hours? This is supposed to be immediately following Rey finding Luke? She was there at least two nights, how is that working? Is she supposed to learn everything she can in the matter of a few hours because the resistance is in immediate trouble following their victory at Starkiller base? Make it 18 days at least, what difference does it make? There's no need for such urgency for the plot, and frankly some scenes with Rey growing impatient with Luke over his feet dragging would've made more sense then, and be an interesting parallel to Luke's impatience in his youth. It was such a wasted opportunity for showing Luke's tutelage of Rey against Snoke's with Ben.
Am I supposed to believe at this point that the villains are at all competent? Is the First Order a legitimate threat? The Empire was effective and scary. By this point in the original trilogy, Vader had executed several Imperial officers who executed sound military strategy but failed nonetheless. How is Hux still alive? How did he even become a general? He is a buffoon, a caricature. He's Colonel Klink in space. Ben is an emotional baby. Snoke is gone and we literally know nothing about who he was, and now we have no reason to care. There is absolutely nothing interesting at all about the First Order as an antagonist.
And the largest offender, the one that drives me the most insane about basic script writing, plot threads that go absolutely nowhere. Scenes that can be removed without changing the outcome. Zero development. Rey's parents, the big "mystery box" of TFA. Doesn't matter they weren't anyone special. So why mention it at all, ever? Finn and Rose's trip to Vegas? Didn't matter at all. You could cut it completely, cut Benecio out of the film altogether, and just have them shuttle to the enemy ship to get caught regardless because you're not going to have that succeed anyway. Save me 30 minutes, Benecio's salary, and get an extra screening a day for more cash.
At the end of this film I sat there thinking, what was the point? Where did the story lead? What changed? Rey is still the good guy, Kylo is still the bad guy, Snoke is gone and we knew nothing about him anyway, and the resistance which managed to lose by winning is now called the Rebellion. Luke never even gave Rey the third lesson of his "I'll teach you three things". If someone did not see this film and wanted you to spoil it for them so they would understand Episode 9, you could literally just say "Snoke and Luke died and there's a chubby asian girl here now."
About the only thing keeping this film from being tied with the Phantom Menace for worst Star Wars film is that Daisy Ridley is charming as hell, even if I dislike her character. She carries every scene she's in. It's just a shame that instead of seeing a duality of Kylo being abandoned by his father, given up on by his teacher, and manipulated by an evil master against Rey being abandoned by her family, struggling with Luke, and choosing good regardless, we get Finn in a leaky medical suit, "Chromedome" lines, and a spaceflying frozen Leia.
I think even the Phantom Menace flowed better, and at least it had the mystery aspect of what was going on with the senate. The Force Awakens even had some mystery to it, and it was easy to follow and not too campy.
This movie was a chase like the old Battlestar Galactica series plot, and it wasn't strong enough to be a whole movie. They could of even used a lot of stuff from Attack of the Clones again, and it might have worked better.
Did they test it to audiences and see what their reactions were? They should have storyboarded it to audiences or something, or looked at the other movie storyboards to make sure they had a believable premise and plot or something that wasn't rubbish.
I agree. If I could wear that mask around all day to intimidate people I'd never take it off.
Unless your mask just makes you look like Nazi Squidward
Some little ladies sure do get they're panties in a wad because somebody makes a Star Wars movie that doesn't conform to they're fanboi expectations
I expected it to be bad.
It was bad and the plot had more holes than Pellum's defense.
People forget how campy, cheesy, and full of plot holes the Original Trilogy was. People forget that.
It's a fucking Star Wars movie, not Shakespeare.
ah the old indiana jones 4 defense
bashing a beloved trilogy to prop up modern dreck
haven't seen this one in a while
Except that Indiana Jones 4 really did suck.
We enjoyed the Original Trilogy despite the fact that they were campy, cheesy, and full of plot holes. TLJ is a good film, but not the film that fanboys wanted to see. I'd hazard a guess that Johnson doesn't give a flying fuck what a test audience thinks about his film. This movie isn't about pleasing the masses by making safe formulaic choices; it's about taking them out of their comfort zone and defying their expectations of how the story should go. He even told the audience, not that many of them listened.
I agree. If I could wear that mask around all day to intimidate people I'd never take it off.
Unless your mask just makes you look like Nazi Squidward
Some little ladies sure do get they're panties in a wad because somebody makes a Star Wars movie that doesn't conform to they're fanboi expectations
I expected it to be bad.
It was bad and the plot had more holes than Pellum's defense.
People forget how campy, cheesy, and full of plot holes the Original Trilogy was. People forget that.
It's a fucking Star Wars movie, not Shakespeare.
ah the old indiana jones 4 defense
bashing a beloved trilogy to prop up modern dreck
haven't seen this one in a while
Except that Indiana Jones 4 really did suck.
We enjoyed the Original Trilogy despite the fact that they were campy, cheesy, and full of plot holes. TLJ is a good film, but not the film that fanboys wanted to see. I'd hazard a guess that Johnson doesn't give a flying fuck what a test audience thinks about his film. This movie isn't about pleasing the masses by making safe formulaic choices; it's about taking them out of their comfort zone and defying their expectations of how the story should go. He even told the audience, not that many of them listened.
I haven’t seen this film and won’t, but all these type of movies are about pleasing the masses. The execs know fan boys will buy tickets and they dumb it down even further for Chinese kids.
I agree. If I could wear that mask around all day to intimidate people I'd never take it off.
Unless your mask just makes you look like Nazi Squidward
Some little ladies sure do get they're panties in a wad because somebody makes a Star Wars movie that doesn't conform to they're fanboi expectations
I expected it to be bad.
It was bad and the plot had more holes than Pellum's defense.
People forget how campy, cheesy, and full of plot holes the Original Trilogy was. People forget that.
It's a fucking Star Wars movie, not Shakespeare.
ah the old indiana jones 4 defense
bashing a beloved trilogy to prop up modern dreck
haven't seen this one in a while
Except that Indiana Jones 4 really did suck.
We enjoyed the Original Trilogy despite the fact that they were campy, cheesy, and full of plot holes. TLJ is a good film, but not the film that fanboys wanted to see. I'd hazard a guess that Johnson doesn't give a flying fuck what a test audience thinks about his film. This movie isn't about pleasing the masses by making safe formulaic choices; it's about taking them out of their comfort zone and defying their expectations of how the story should go. He even told the audience, not that many of them listened.
I haven’t seen this film and won’t, but all these type of movies are about pleasing the masses. The execs know fan boys will buy tickets and they dumb it down even further for Chinese kids.
I always knew the Japs hated the chinks, but damn man.
I agree. If I could wear that mask around all day to intimidate people I'd never take it off.
Unless your mask just makes you look like Nazi Squidward
Some little ladies sure do get they're panties in a wad because somebody makes a Star Wars movie that doesn't conform to they're fanboi expectations
I expected it to be bad.
It was bad and the plot had more holes than Pellum's defense.
People forget how campy, cheesy, and full of plot holes the Original Trilogy was. People forget that.
It's a fucking Star Wars movie, not Shakespeare.
ah the old indiana jones 4 defense
bashing a beloved trilogy to prop up modern dreck
haven't seen this one in a while
Except that Indiana Jones 4 really did suck.
We enjoyed the Original Trilogy despite the fact that they were campy, cheesy, and full of plot holes. TLJ is a good film, but not the film that fanboys wanted to see. I'd hazard a guess that Johnson doesn't give a flying fuck what a test audience thinks about his film. This movie isn't about pleasing the masses by making safe formulaic choices; it's about taking them out of their comfort zone and defying their expectations of how the story should go. He even told the audience, not that many of them listened.
I haven’t seen this film and won’t, but all these type of movies are about pleasing the masses. The execs know fan boys will buy tickets and they dumb it down even further for Chinese kids.
The 77 release of Star Wars is widely credited for starting the cartoon movie trend that is with us to this day. The blockbuster.
70's movies had become like 70's traditional rock - bloated and self indulgent. With our new 5 second attention span many of them are unwatchable today even for those of us who were there and liked them.
The original was basically a tale of good versus evil. Always a crowd pleaser. If you are looking to star wars for your tasteful movie event you might want to reconsider.
I like the re boot of Star Trek. Pine is the best Kirk since Shatner. Times change got to change with them
Star Trek was always better. They fucked around and let Star Wars get the movie out first then the first Star Trek movie was a bomb. But they figured it out
Star Trek was always better. They fucked around and let Star Wars get the movie out first then the first Star Trek movie was a bomb. But they figured it out
Wrath of Khan is the only good Star Trek movie with the TOS cast. The other 6 sucked.
loved 4-6, 1 was so stoopid did not watch 2 and 3, 7 was as poorly acted as most Spielberg movies so will not watch until it shows up on some free movie channel or one of the kids loans it to me.
Comments
Let's start with the overuse of exposition dialogue. Now you can argue these films are geared towards a younger audience, who might need a bit more explanation as to what's happening, but there was way too much of it. "They've got a ram!" "Oh no they can use it to destroy the door!" "We have to destroy it before they use it to destroy the door!" It's completely unnecessary. "That is a big gun..." tells the audience everything they need to know, it's a gun, and they are capable of figuring out that it probably needs to be taken out. The characters know this too. Speaking it aloud is unnatural and awkward.
Inappropriate comedy is next. There was simply too much of it. This is the middle chapter of a trilogy, and every 30 seconds it was Poe, Finn, Porgs, BB8, Hux, Chewie, or Yoda interrupting with a zing or a sight gag. Most of the cast was devoted to making jokes in a war setting. It's a clash to begin with and should be used sparingly to relieve tense moments, not add up to half the film.
The False time constraint of the chase was a huge mistake. 18 hours? This is supposed to be immediately following Rey finding Luke? She was there at least two nights, how is that working? Is she supposed to learn everything she can in the matter of a few hours because the resistance is in immediate trouble following their victory at Starkiller base? Make it 18 days at least, what difference does it make? There's no need for such urgency for the plot, and frankly some scenes with Rey growing impatient with Luke over his feet dragging would've made more sense then, and be an interesting parallel to Luke's impatience in his youth. It was such a wasted opportunity for showing Luke's tutelage of Rey against Snoke's with Ben.
Am I supposed to believe at this point that the villains are at all competent? Is the First Order a legitimate threat? The Empire was effective and scary. By this point in the original trilogy, Vader had executed several Imperial officers who executed sound military strategy but failed nonetheless. How is Hux still alive? How did he even become a general? He is a buffoon, a caricature. He's Colonel Klink in space. Ben is an emotional baby. Snoke is gone and we literally know nothing about who he was, and now we have no reason to care. There is absolutely nothing interesting at all about the First Order as an antagonist.
And the largest offender, the one that drives me the most insane about basic script writing, plot threads that go absolutely nowhere. Scenes that can be removed without changing the outcome. Zero development. Rey's parents, the big "mystery box" of TFA. Doesn't matter they weren't anyone special. So why mention it at all, ever? Finn and Rose's trip to Vegas? Didn't matter at all. You could cut it completely, cut Benecio out of the film altogether, and just have them shuttle to the enemy ship to get caught regardless because you're not going to have that succeed anyway. Save me 30 minutes, Benecio's salary, and get an extra screening a day for more cash.
At the end of this film I sat there thinking, what was the point? Where did the story lead? What changed? Rey is still the good guy, Kylo is still the bad guy, Snoke is gone and we knew nothing about him anyway, and the resistance which managed to lose by winning is now called the Rebellion. Luke never even gave Rey the third lesson of his "I'll teach you three things". If someone did not see this film and wanted you to spoil it for them so they would understand Episode 9, you could literally just say "Snoke and Luke died and there's a chubby asian girl here now."
About the only thing keeping this film from being tied with the Phantom Menace for worst Star Wars film is that Daisy Ridley is charming as hell, even if I dislike her character. She carries every scene she's in. It's just a shame that instead of seeing a duality of Kylo being abandoned by his father, given up on by his teacher, and manipulated by an evil master against Rey being abandoned by her family, struggling with Luke, and choosing good regardless, we get Finn in a leaky medical suit, "Chromedome" lines, and a spaceflying frozen Leia.
2/10
I'll admit though I loved Chewie and the porgs.
It's a fucking Star Wars movie, not Shakespeare.
bashing a beloved trilogy to prop up modern dreck
haven't seen this one in a while
This movie was a chase like the old Battlestar Galactica series plot, and it wasn't strong enough to be a whole movie. They could of even used a lot of stuff from Attack of the Clones again, and it might have worked better.
Did they test it to audiences and see what their reactions were? They should have storyboarded it to audiences or something, or looked at the other movie storyboards to make sure they had a believable premise and plot or something that wasn't rubbish.
Move the date asshole
We enjoyed the Original Trilogy despite the fact that they were campy, cheesy, and full of plot holes. TLJ is a good film, but not the film that fanboys wanted to see. I'd hazard a guess that Johnson doesn't give a flying fuck what a test audience thinks about his film. This movie isn't about pleasing the masses by making safe formulaic choices; it's about taking them out of their comfort zone and defying their expectations of how the story should go. He even told the audience, not that many of them listened.
It should be an Asian character in that role.
YKW
Craves it, craves it, wood hit hard, Sven, craves it, hondo.
70's movies had become like 70's traditional rock - bloated and self indulgent. With our new 5 second attention span many of them are unwatchable today even for those of us who were there and liked them.
The original was basically a tale of good versus evil. Always a crowd pleaser. If you are looking to star wars for your tasteful movie event you might want to reconsider.
I like the re boot of Star Trek. Pine is the best Kirk since Shatner. Times change got to change with them