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A brief history of the only successful nation building exercises in US History

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Comments

  • YellowSnowYellowSnow Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 35,416 Founders Club

    Did someone hack @Dennis_DeYoung 's account? What are you doing in the Patron Rub and Tug Tavern?

    AZDuck said:

    AZDuck said:

    image
    [citation needed]

    Please elaborate.
    Not sure that Reconstruction took

    image
    It took in the sense that the Union was preserved, the slaves were (partially) freed, and that they didn't take up arms again (on a large scale, at least) against the federal government (I think the armed militia thing on public ground should be grounds for immediate arrest BTW; that's not 2nd amendment protected). But we did go easy on the South- i.e., virtually no hangings of traitors and the Democrats we back in power in every state by the late 1870's. We took the easy route to get them back in the fold. Keep in mind we went pretty easy on Japan as well in this respect...

    image

    image
    I'd put my money on Japanese and German people to rebuild a country over almost anyone else. They were also 'successful' rebuilds because they were both formidable opponents in the first fucking place.

    You don't go into some shit-wagon cuntry that's never done anything fucking right in its history, dump a bunch of strings-attached money into it and hope that something good happens.

    Japan and Germany were fucking serious powers. We have fought a bunch of shit-houses since then and either run them over post-haste or had to fight guerrillas, which no one likes to do.

    Iraq has been behind the fucking times for like 1800 years. You think fucking 8 years of US corruption that's not allowed in the US so has to take place somewhere else in order to line the pockets of US military contractors - in an already complete corrupt shit-hole is going to fucking do anything?

    The south is the same shit. It's pretty much the fucking same as it was when we leveled it.

    White people without the protestant work ethic are fucking wholly and completely useless - and the south is run by them (and has basically always been). The south is basically a complete leech off grown economies.

    If you look at the USA right now, per capita GDP is only higher than the AVG US PCGDP in ONE fucking 'southern state' (Virginia) and that has nothing to do with the South and everything to do with the north.

    By contrast, most places with complete shit PCGDP are southern or rural.

    Bottom 15 -
    36 Michigan (corrupt unions and the American auto industry management fuckshow; complete disaster)
    37 Missouri (white southerners)
    38 Tennessee (ouch)
    39 New Mexico (NOC)
    40 Florida (Republican rule and racism!)
    41 Montana (see Florida)
    42 Kentucky (see Florida)
    43 Maine (see Florida)
    44 Arizona (see Florida)
    45 Alabama (ouch)
    46 South Carolina (ouch)
    47 Arkansas (ouch)
    48 West Virginia (ouch)
    49 Idaho (see Florida)
    50 Mississippi (ouch).

    The economy in the South is good relative to the rest of the world (it's trash in PPP by the way) for the same reason Italy, Spain and Portugal look okay. When you are next to giant economic power and have trade alliances with them, you flourish even if you are a complete corrupt fuckhole.
    STAY!
    If you look at corruption ranking (worldbank is fine) and per capita GDP in the world, the correlation is like -.85. The only other factor that moves the needle much is oil wealth (hence why Alaska, North Dickcota and Wyoming aren't on the shit-bag list for the US).

    Also, if you look out at the world, the major economic story of the world is pretty much this: shit happened, then protestants happened, this tamped corruption down severely and taught people to read, then you had the enlightenment and industrial revolution. This is where all the fucking world GDP comes from.

    Outside of countries with either deep protestant trading ties or majority protestants (this has been shown in an excellent 2000 paper at the fucking COUNTY level), there is only ONE FUCKING CUNTRY that has a good economy (and they are also without severe corruption; every place is corrupt, it's just the severity that makes such a big difference) is: JAPAN.

    (Every other country with a decent economy can be directly tied to protestant involvement at some point)

    Japan has been the only country to get rid of corruption without the PWE and Germany fucking invented it.

    The protestant Germans are sofa king good at life that they rose out of the ashes twice to become dominant. After 1945 they rose so fucking hard, they merged with shit-ball EGerm (who had been infiltrated by corrupt shit-ball commies) and their PCGDP is STILL one of the best in the world. They are basically 15k ahead of East Germany in PCGDP to this fucking day.

    It's amazing what you can do when you have a literate, education population who aren't corrupt.
    THIS! Even though we had to D.A.O. King George III, we always must be grateful for the mother ship connection from which we came. It's not a coincidence that the world has pretty much been run by English speaking countries since 1815.
    To tie this into the college thread - why not try teaching that on campus today?
    Well, mostly because English speaking is an artifact (the English speaking causes nothing). However, the fact that economic powers have had protestant foundations for the past 200 years is pretty well understood and explained (though it is a subject of some controversy, because it's hard to fucking exactly understand why ANYTHING happens). Stop listening to fuckbag English and Social Justice Major profs on fucking Fox you dumbshit.

    J/k you're my buddy! ;)
    When I was at Denny Hall where the Four Seasons Fairmont Olympic Hotel is now we stuck to the basics
  • RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 105,815 Founders Club
    No more Four Seasons?
  • YellowSnowYellowSnow Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 35,416 Founders Club

    No more Four Seasons?

    There is a Four Seasons in Seattle adjacent to Pike Place. Opened 10 years or so give or take. The historic Olympic Hotel built on the site of the territorial UDub was reflagged as a Fairmont property (think Empress in Victoria, Banff Springs Hotel, etc).
  • KaepskneeKaepsknee Member Posts: 14,885

    salemcoog said:

    You can't nation build in the ME, which is why you don't take invading or occupying their nations lightly. Afghanistan will never be changed. You could nuke the whole country and the roaches will still emerge from the caves ready to fight try to make sure their hot women don't get educated enough to learn that there are dudes in the world that don't live in dirt palaces, worship the social order of 1000 years ago and ride on farm animals or in broken down 30 year old 4-wheelers with bullet holes in the door (but enough about WSU, hardy har har).. Iraq was as stupid of a decision ever in the course of our military history and it will need to be occupied forever in some way or ISIS like regimes will take over.

    Fixed.
    How do you ride in a broken down 30 y/o 4 wheeler?

    Axeing for a fren.


    The funny thing is that I actually do have an 87 Ford Bronco. It still runs but has no bullet holes. And please to be adding pics of these so called Hot Afghanis that you speak of. I didn't flag you because you're new here. But next time the gloves are off.
  • YellowSnowYellowSnow Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 35,416 Founders Club

    Did someone hack @Dennis_DeYoung 's account? What are you doing in the Patron Rub and Tug Tavern?

    AZDuck said:

    AZDuck said:

    image
    [citation needed]

    Please elaborate.
    Not sure that Reconstruction took

    image
    It took in the sense that the Union was preserved, the slaves were (partially) freed, and that they didn't take up arms again (on a large scale, at least) against the federal government (I think the armed militia thing on public ground should be grounds for immediate arrest BTW; that's not 2nd amendment protected). But we did go easy on the South- i.e., virtually no hangings of traitors and the Democrats we back in power in every state by the late 1870's. We took the easy route to get them back in the fold. Keep in mind we went pretty easy on Japan as well in this respect...

    image

    image
    I'd put my money on Japanese and German people to rebuild a country over almost anyone else. They were also 'successful' rebuilds because they were both formidable opponents in the first fucking place.

    You don't go into some shit-wagon cuntry that's never done anything fucking right in its history, dump a bunch of strings-attached money into it and hope that something good happens.

    Japan and Germany were fucking serious powers. We have fought a bunch of shit-houses since then and either run them over post-haste or had to fight guerrillas, which no one likes to do.

    Iraq has been behind the fucking times for like 1800 years. You think fucking 8 years of US corruption that's not allowed in the US so has to take place somewhere else in order to line the pockets of US military contractors - in an already complete corrupt shit-hole is going to fucking do anything?

    The south is the same shit. It's pretty much the fucking same as it was when we leveled it.

    White people without the protestant work ethic are fucking wholly and completely useless - and the south is run by them (and has basically always been). The south is basically a complete leech off grown economies.

    If you look at the USA right now, per capita GDP is only higher than the AVG US PCGDP in ONE fucking 'southern state' (Virginia) and that has nothing to do with the South and everything to do with the north.

    By contrast, most places with complete shit PCGDP are southern or rural.

    Bottom 15 -
    36 Michigan (corrupt unions and the American auto industry management fuckshow; complete disaster)
    37 Missouri (white southerners)
    38 Tennessee (ouch)
    39 New Mexico (NOC)
    40 Florida (Republican rule and racism!)
    41 Montana (see Florida)
    42 Kentucky (see Florida)
    43 Maine (see Florida)
    44 Arizona (see Florida)
    45 Alabama (ouch)
    46 South Carolina (ouch)
    47 Arkansas (ouch)
    48 West Virginia (ouch)
    49 Idaho (see Florida)
    50 Mississippi (ouch).

    The economy in the South is good relative to the rest of the world (it's trash in PPP by the way) for the same reason Italy, Spain and Portugal look okay. When you are next to giant economic power and have trade alliances with them, you flourish even if you are a complete corrupt fuckhole.
    STAY!
    If you look at corruption ranking (worldbank is fine) and per capita GDP in the world, the correlation is like -.85. The only other factor that moves the needle much is oil wealth (hence why Alaska, North Dickcota and Wyoming aren't on the shit-bag list for the US).

    Also, if you look out at the world, the major economic story of the world is pretty much this: shit happened, then protestants happened, this tamped corruption down severely and taught people to read, then you had the enlightenment and industrial revolution. This is where all the fucking world GDP comes from.

    Outside of countries with either deep protestant trading ties or majority protestants (this has been shown in an excellent 2000 paper at the fucking COUNTY level), there is only ONE FUCKING CUNTRY that has a good economy (and they are also without severe corruption; every place is corrupt, it's just the severity that makes such a big difference) is: JAPAN.

    (Every other country with a decent economy can be directly tied to protestant involvement at some point)

    Japan has been the only country to get rid of corruption without the PWE and Germany fucking invented it.

    The protestant Germans are sofa king good at life that they rose out of the ashes twice to become dominant. After 1945 they rose so fucking hard, they merged with shit-ball EGerm (who had been infiltrated by corrupt shit-ball commies) and their PCGDP is STILL one of the best in the world. They are basically 15k ahead of East Germany in PCGDP to this fucking day.

    It's amazing what you can do when you have a literate, education population who aren't corrupt.
    THIS! Even though we had to D.A.O. King George III, we always must be grateful for the mother ship connection from which we came. It's not a coincidence that the world has pretty much been run by English speaking countries since 1815.
    To tie this into the college thread - why not try teaching that on campus today?
    Well, mostly because English speaking is an artifact (the English speaking causes nothing). However, the fact that economic powers have had protestant foundations for the past 200 years is pretty well understood and explained (though it is a subject of some controversy, because it's hard to fucking exactly understand why ANYTHING happens). Stop listening to fuckbag English and Social Justice Major profs on fucking Fox you dumbshit.

    J/k you're my buddy! ;)
    DDY appears to be on to something here.

    Top 5 GDP Per Capita (PPP) for Power 5 Countries (call it over 50,000,000 inhabitants); no one gives a fuck about Denmark or Luxembourg's GDP:

    US n' A - $57,300 (mostly Protestant historically speaking)

    Deutschland - $48,200 (mostly Protestant with some Catholics in the South; Hitler was baptized Catholic BTW)

    UK - $42,500 (Protestant)

    France - $42,500 (Catholic but first Euro country to go really secular around 200 years ago)

    Japan - $38,900 (Protestant trading connections in its formative years)


    Other helpful factors: having some natural resources, but not being a resource extraction based economy; also being an island or your own continent basically where other countries can't fuck with you as easily is also big.

    image
  • PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 44,173 Standard Supporter

    No more Four Seasons?

    There is a Four Seasons in Seattle adjacent to Pike Place. Opened 10 years or so give or take. The historic Olympic Hotel built on the site of the territorial UDub was reflagged as a Fairmont property (think Empress in Victoria, Banff Springs Hotel, etc).
    Sounds old rich & white.

    I like it.
  • GrundleStiltzkinGrundleStiltzkin Member Posts: 61,499 Standard Supporter
    Surprising thread.

    And by that, I thought Dennis liked black people.
  • ThomasFremontThomasFremont Member Posts: 13,325
    So location, tradition, and money?
  • SwayeSwaye Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 41,490 Founders Club

    Surprising thread.

    And by that, I thought Dennis liked black people.

    Only black protestants it appears.
  • oregonblitzkriegoregonblitzkrieg Member Posts: 15,288

    Swaye said:

    Total war or nothing. Limited war followed by nation building always sucks ass.

    Seriously, in our history, there's not been 1 nation building success story short of total war and a completely defeated enemy with no ability or will to carry on the fight. And in the instance of Japan and Germany we still to this day maintain large military installations on their soil, and neither is truly a sovereign state in terms of controlling their own foreign policy. In other words, there's still an occupation of sorts 72 years later.
    Neither can fully be trusted not to rise again. There is something dark in the chemistry of dem deutschen volke and in the region of Northern Europe that seems rise every few centuries to rampage until it is subdued and sleeps again. The Nazis were just the latest manifestation of an age old evil that lurks there, like in the fairytales.

    Japan is calm on the outside but seethes on the inside. They are fucking warriors at heart, samurai and kamikaze. They will always have that crazy ass streak in them, a fiery spirit behind a peaceful façade. They kick ass as people, I fucking love the Japs. But their cuntry is small, and they may feel the need once again, sometime in the future, to seize lands that don't belong to them in order to expand their territory.
  • whlinderwhlinder Member Posts: 4,792 Standard Supporter

    AZDuck said:

    AZDuck said:

    image
    [citation needed]

    Please elaborate.
    Not sure that Reconstruction took

    image
    It took in the sense that the Union was preserved, the slaves were (partially) freed, and that they didn't take up arms again (on a large scale, at least) against the federal government (I think the armed militia thing on public ground should be grounds for immediate arrest BTW; that's not 2nd amendment protected). But we did go easy on the South- i.e., virtually no hangings of traitors and the Democrats we back in power in every state by the late 1870's. We took the easy route to get them back in the fold. Keep in mind we went pretty easy on Japan as well in this respect...

    image

    image
    I'd put my money on Japanese and German people to rebuild a country over almost anyone else. They were also 'successful' rebuilds because they were both formidable opponents in the first fucking place.

    You don't go into some shit-wagon cuntry that's never done anything fucking right in its history, dump a bunch of strings-attached money into it and hope that something good happens.

    Japan and Germany were fucking serious powers. We have fought a bunch of shit-houses since then and either run them over post-haste or had to fight guerrillas, which no one likes to do.

    Iraq has been behind the fucking times for like 1800 years. You think fucking 8 years of US corruption that's not allowed in the US so has to take place somewhere else in order to line the pockets of US military contractors - in an already complete corrupt shit-hole is going to fucking do anything?

    The south is the same shit. It's pretty much the fucking same as it was when we leveled it.

    White people without the protestant work ethic are fucking wholly and completely useless - and the south is run by them (and has basically always been). The south is basically a complete leech off grown economies.

    If you look at the USA right now, per capita GDP is only higher than the AVG US PCGDP in ONE fucking 'southern state' (Virginia) and that has nothing to do with the South and everything to do with the north.

    By contrast, most places with complete shit PCGDP are southern or rural.

    Bottom 15 -
    36 Michigan (corrupt unions and the American auto industry management fuckshow; complete disaster)
    37 Missouri (white southerners)
    38 Tennessee (ouch)
    39 New Mexico (NOC)
    40 Florida (Republican rule and racism!)
    41 Montana (see Florida)
    42 Kentucky (see Florida)
    43 Maine (see Florida)
    44 Arizona (see Florida)
    45 Alabama (ouch)
    46 South Carolina (ouch)
    47 Arkansas (ouch)
    48 West Virginia (ouch)
    49 Idaho (see Florida)
    50 Mississippi (ouch).

    The economy in the South is good relative to the rest of the world (it's trash in PPP by the way) for the same reason Italy, Spain and Portugal look okay. When you are next to giant economic power and have trade alliances with them, you flourish even if you are a complete corrupt fuckhole.
    FREE PUB!!!!1!!1! for me, @vadawg and @Swaye
  • TierbsHsotBoobsTierbsHsotBoobs Member Posts: 39,680

    Swaye said:

    Total war or nothing. Limited war followed by nation building always sucks ass.

    Seriously, in our history, there's not been 1 nation building success story short of total war and a completely defeated enemy with no ability or will to carry on the fight. And in the instance of Japan and Germany we still to this day maintain large military installations on their soil, and neither is truly a sovereign state in terms of controlling their own foreign policy. In other words, there's still an occupation of sorts 72 years later.
    Neither can fully be trusted not to rise again. There is something dark in the chemistry of dem deutschen volke and in the region of Northern Europe that seems rise every few centuries to rampage until it is subdued and sleeps again. The Nazis were just the latest manifestation of an age old evil that lurks there, like in the fairytales.

    Japan is calm on the outside but seethes on the inside. They are fucking warriors at heart, samurai and kamikaze. They will always have that crazy ass streak in them, a fiery spirit behind a peaceful façade. They kick ass as people, I fucking love the Japs. But their cuntry is small, and they may feel the need once again, sometime in the future, to seize lands that don't belong to them in order to expand their territory.
    I specifically asked for no racist crap
  • SwayeSwaye Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 41,490 Founders Club
    whlinder said:

    AZDuck said:

    AZDuck said:

    image
    [citation needed]

    Please elaborate.
    Not sure that Reconstruction took

    image
    It took in the sense that the Union was preserved, the slaves were (partially) freed, and that they didn't take up arms again (on a large scale, at least) against the federal government (I think the armed militia thing on public ground should be grounds for immediate arrest BTW; that's not 2nd amendment protected). But we did go easy on the South- i.e., virtually no hangings of traitors and the Democrats we back in power in every state by the late 1870's. We took the easy route to get them back in the fold. Keep in mind we went pretty easy on Japan as well in this respect...

    image

    image
    I'd put my money on Japanese and German people to rebuild a country over almost anyone else. They were also 'successful' rebuilds because they were both formidable opponents in the first fucking place.

    You don't go into some shit-wagon cuntry that's never done anything fucking right in its history, dump a bunch of strings-attached money into it and hope that something good happens.

    Japan and Germany were fucking serious powers. We have fought a bunch of shit-houses since then and either run them over post-haste or had to fight guerrillas, which no one likes to do.

    Iraq has been behind the fucking times for like 1800 years. You think fucking 8 years of US corruption that's not allowed in the US so has to take place somewhere else in order to line the pockets of US military contractors - in an already complete corrupt shit-hole is going to fucking do anything?

    The south is the same shit. It's pretty much the fucking same as it was when we leveled it.

    White people without the protestant work ethic are fucking wholly and completely useless - and the south is run by them (and has basically always been). The south is basically a complete leech off grown economies.

    If you look at the USA right now, per capita GDP is only higher than the AVG US PCGDP in ONE fucking 'southern state' (Virginia) and that has nothing to do with the South and everything to do with the north.

    By contrast, most places with complete shit PCGDP are southern or rural.

    Bottom 15 -
    36 Michigan (corrupt unions and the American auto industry management fuckshow; complete disaster)
    37 Missouri (white southerners)
    38 Tennessee (ouch)
    39 New Mexico (NOC)
    40 Florida (Republican rule and racism!)
    41 Montana (see Florida)
    42 Kentucky (see Florida)
    43 Maine (see Florida)
    44 Arizona (see Florida)
    45 Alabama (ouch)
    46 South Carolina (ouch)
    47 Arkansas (ouch)
    48 West Virginia (ouch)
    49 Idaho (see Florida)
    50 Mississippi (ouch).

    The economy in the South is good relative to the rest of the world (it's trash in PPP by the way) for the same reason Italy, Spain and Portugal look okay. When you are next to giant economic power and have trade alliances with them, you flourish even if you are a complete corrupt fuckhole.
    FREE PUB!!!!1!!1! for me, @vadawg and @Swaye
    @Passion also
  • PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 44,173 Standard Supporter

    Swaye said:

    Total war or nothing. Limited war followed by nation building always sucks ass.

    Seriously, in our history, there's not been 1 nation building success story short of total war and a completely defeated enemy with no ability or will to carry on the fight. And in the instance of Japan and Germany we still to this day maintain large military installations on their soil, and neither is truly a sovereign state in terms of controlling their own foreign policy. In other words, there's still an occupation of sorts 72 years later.
    Neither can fully be trusted not to rise again. There is something dark in the chemistry of dem deutschen volke and in the region of Northern Europe that seems rise every few centuries to rampage until it is subdued and sleeps again. The Nazis were just the latest manifestation of an age old evil that lurks there, like in the fairytales.

    Japan is calm on the outside but seethes on the inside. They are fucking warriors at heart, samurai and kamikaze. They will always have that crazy ass streak in them, a fiery spirit behind a peaceful façade. They kick ass as people, I fucking love the Japs. But their cuntry is small, and they may feel the need once again, sometime in the future, to seize lands that don't belong to them in order to expand their territory.
    I specifically asked for no racist crap
    lacist clap

  • DerekJohnsonDerekJohnson Administrator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 63,505 Founders Club
    AZDuck said:

    AZDuck said:

    image
    [citation needed]

    Please elaborate.
    Not sure that Reconstruction took

    image
    Disagree


    image
  • SledogSledog Member Posts: 33,850 Standard Supporter
    If you nation build in the middle east those backward fucks will just tear it back down to the rock and mud level. But you can bomb them up to the stone age!
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