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ST3 / Car Tabs / Sales Taxes / Bloated KC Metro

245

Comments

  • PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 44,183 Standard Supporter

    priapism said:

    I don't understand the love for light-rail. A railroaded transportation system. I think bus-only lanes and elevated bus-only lanes in the bad traffic areas make much more sense. At least the buses can pursue and continue on their own individual routes on side-streets and major arterials after they by-pass the worst of the traffic. Light-rail works great for those who live within 5-6 blocks of a station, not so much for everyone else. That light rail system will be obsolete by the time they finish it. I left Seattle, because of the traffic and lack of sun.

    I left Seattle because of the elevated level of faggotry and arrogant lack of leadership across virtually every facet of life (#gosonics).

    Getting rid of the shit tier NBA is one of the few good things Seattle has done in the past 20 years.
    Because pro soccer is so much better?!?

  • TierbsHsotBoobsTierbsHsotBoobs Member Posts: 39,680

    priapism said:

    I don't understand the love for light-rail. A railroaded transportation system. I think bus-only lanes and elevated bus-only lanes in the bad traffic areas make much more sense. At least the buses can pursue and continue on their own individual routes on side-streets and major arterials after they by-pass the worst of the traffic. Light-rail works great for those who live within 5-6 blocks of a station, not so much for everyone else. That light rail system will be obsolete by the time they finish it. I left Seattle, because of the traffic and lack of sun.

    I left Seattle because of the elevated level of faggotry and arrogant lack of leadership across virtually every facet of life (#gosonics).

    Getting rid of the shit tier NBA is one of the few good things Seattle has done in the past 20 years.
    Because pro soccer is so much better?!?

    It sucks ass, but at least more than three teams can win the championship.
  • SwayeSwaye Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 41,491 Founders Club
    I left Seattle because it sucks.
  • doogiedoogie Member Posts: 15,072

    A friend of mine's tabs for his truck went from $250 to $600.

    Sounds like he should sell it... oh, wait! He's buried. He can't!
  • AZDuckAZDuck Member Posts: 15,381
    edited May 2017
    PurpleJ said:

    Add rail transport to things ruined by the government.

    Japan's Shinkansen, Birthplace of High Speed Rail
    image
    image

    France's TGV, World's Fastest Train
    image
    image

    Germany's High Speed ICE Network
    image
    image

    Switzerland's Integrated Rail Network - One ticket for Rail, Trams, Buses Goes Everywhere
    image
    image
    image

    Zurich Tram and Bus Map - Metro Area 2.4 million
    image

    Tokyo Commuter Rail and Metro Map - Metro Area 35 million
    image
    image

    London Metro Map
    image
    image

    New Gotthard Tunnel Under the Alps
    image
    image
    image


    Spain's High Speed Rail Network
    image
    image

    China's High Speed Rail Network
    image
    image

    South Korea's High Speed Rail Network
    image
    image

    Kuala Lumpur(!) High Speed Metro
    image

    Istanbul Tunnel Under the Bosphorus Connecting Europe and Asia
    image
    image

    Portland's Rail Network (built since 1986)
    image
    image

    And then there's Seattle and Tacoma

    image
    image
    image

    Tac Town Lame

    image
    image

    When government investment is creating high-speed rail subway, commuter rail and light rail links that bridge continents, tunnel under Alps, move millions of people a day faster, more comfortably, more efficiently and with less pollution than the US dependence on air travel

    image
    image

    and cars (hello, let's sit for a while) ... AND

    The Spanish, the Turks, the Malaysians and even fucking communist Portland are kicking your ass at it-

    It might be time to reconsider your position.

  • PurpleJPurpleJ Member Posts: 37,257 Founders Club
    Either regulation made it so the only attractive investment in rail is through the government, or the technology itself is obsolete and no private company will touch it.
  • doogiedoogie Member Posts: 15,072
    thanks for documenting the extent of the Government Rail boondoggle.

    It's now the 21st century. Time to move on from the 1850's
  • Mosster47Mosster47 Member Posts: 6,246
    AZDuck said:

    PurpleJ said:

    Add rail transport to things ruined by the government.

    Japan's Shinkansen, Birthplace of High Speed Rail
    image
    image

    France's TGV, World's Fastest Train
    image
    image

    Germany's High Speed ICE Network
    image
    image

    Switzerland's Integrated Rail Network - One ticket for Rail, Trams, Buses Goes Everywhere
    image
    image
    image

    Zurich Tram and Bus Map - Metro Area 2.4 million
    image

    Tokyo Commuter Rail and Metro Map - Metro Area 35 million
    image
    image

    London Metro Map
    image
    image

    New Gotthard Tunnel Under the Alps
    image
    image
    image


    Spain's High Speed Rail Network
    image
    image

    China's High Speed Rail Network
    image
    image

    South Korea's High Speed Rail Network
    image
    image

    Kuala Lumpur(!) High Speed Metro
    image

    Istanbul Tunnel Under the Bosphorus Connecting Europe and Asia
    image
    image

    Portland's Rail Network (built since 1986)
    image
    image

    And then there's Seattle and Tacoma

    image
    image
    image

    Tac Town Lame

    image
    image

    When government investment is creating high-speed rail subway, commuter rail and light rail links that bridge continents, tunnel under Alps, move millions of people a day faster, more comfortably, more efficiently and with less pollution than the US dependence on air travel

    image
    image

    and cars (hello, let's sit for a while) ... AND

    The Spanish, the Turks, the Malaysians and even fucking communist Portland are kicking your ass at it-

    It might be time to reconsider your position.

    The DC Metro is another great example. To me, it's the best metro rail system in the US.
  • AZDuckAZDuck Member Posts: 15,381
    PurpleJ said:

    Either regulation made it so the only attractive investment in rail air travel and auto travel is through the government, or the auto technology itself is obsolete and no private company will touch it absent massive subsidy.

    Government built "freeways" - late 1950's tech
    Internal combustion engines - late 1890's tech
    Airports and runways - built and maintained largely by governments
    Roads and freeways - built and maintained largely by governments
    Oil and gasoline - prices managed by a foreign cartel and US government stockpile, plus massive military intervention in the Middle East

    All transportation modes require government subsidy. Which ones move the most people more efficiently in the most comfort with the least disruption and consumption of energy?

    If only someone had studied this question...

    image

  • PurpleJPurpleJ Member Posts: 37,257 Founders Club
    "All transportation modes require government subsidy"

    WRONG
  • dncdnc Member Posts: 56,732
    AZDuck said:

    PurpleJ said:

    Either regulation made it so the only attractive investment in rail air travel and auto travel is through the government, or the auto technology itself is obsolete and no private company will touch it absent massive subsidy.

    Government built "freeways" - late 1950's tech
    Internal combustion engines - late 1890's tech
    Airports and runways - built and maintained largely by governments
    Roads and freeways - built and maintained largely by governments
    Oil and gasoline - prices managed by a foreign cartel and US government stockpile, plus massive military intervention in the Middle East

    All transportation modes require government subsidy. Which ones move the most people more efficiently in the most comfort with the least disruption and consumption of energy?

    If only someone had studied this question...

    image

    But isn't this apples and oranges? Is it really surprising that a nation with 235 people per square mile can move them more efficiently than a nation with 84 people per square mile?

    I think rail works great with dense populations (and would presumably work great in Seattle if you didn't have to trust the Seattle government to execute it). I'm not sure it translates nationwide in the US though.
  • AZDuckAZDuck Member Posts: 15,381
    PurpleJ said:

    "All transportation modes require government subsidy"

    WRONG

    Name two that don't. There's only one transportation system, worldwide, that doesn't require a subsidy. The Hong Kong Metro.
  • doogiedoogie Member Posts: 15,072
    Seattle has the 11th most travelled rail system in the United States.

    Statistically speaking, it doesn't move jack shit in terms of riders.

    Time to let go of 1850's technology and accept the future. Think mobility.
  • PurpleJPurpleJ Member Posts: 37,257 Founders Club
    AZDuck said:

    PurpleJ said:

    "All transportation modes require government subsidy"

    WRONG

    Name two that don't. There's only one transportation system, worldwide, that doesn't require a subsidy. The Hong Kong Metro.
    Doesn't sound like all to me. It was fine as a private industry here for years.
  • PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 44,183 Standard Supporter
    doogie said:

    Seattle has the 11th most travelled rail system in the United States.

    Statistically speaking, it doesn't move jack shit in terms of riders.

    Time to let go of 1850's technology and accept the future. Think mobility.

    It's not in the developers/property owners best interest to move people quickly and inexpensively. It's in their interest to have a somewhat captive workforce who are therefore forced to pay ridiculous prices for rent and purchase of the real estate. Simple supply and demand curves and if the limited supply can be reduced, it drives the prices up.

    A high speed train to/from the suburbs would make urban real estate far less valuable.

    Can you imagine if you could commute door to door from Cle Elum to downtown Seattle in 30 to 45 minutes?

    Always follow the money trail.
  • AZDuckAZDuck Member Posts: 15,381
    dnc said:

    AZDuck said:

    PurpleJ said:

    Either regulation made it so the only attractive investment in rail air travel and auto travel is through the government, or the auto technology itself is obsolete and no private company will touch it absent massive subsidy.

    Government built "freeways" - late 1950's tech
    Internal combustion engines - late 1890's tech
    Airports and runways - built and maintained largely by governments
    Roads and freeways - built and maintained largely by governments
    Oil and gasoline - prices managed by a foreign cartel and US government stockpile, plus massive military intervention in the Middle East

    All transportation modes require government subsidy. Which ones move the most people more efficiently in the most comfort with the least disruption and consumption of energy?

    If only someone had studied this question...

    image

    But isn't this apples and oranges? Is it really surprising that a nation with 235 people per square mile can move them more efficiently than a nation with 84 people per square mile?

    I think rail works great with dense populations (and would presumably work great in Seattle if you didn't have to trust the Seattle government to execute it). I'm not sure it translates nationwide in the US though.
    That's a reasonable poont.

    But the US isn't even close and Germany isn't even the best model (Switzerland is).

    I don't think that high speed rail is feasible coast-to-coast in the US, although the Chinese are building HSR lines that are longer than the 400-600 mile optimum range. Long distance Amtrak service should be abolished. That is 1920's dinosaur rail.

    But people in the US are concentrated into urban regions. California, the P-NW I-5 corridor, the Midwest (centered on Chicago), the BOS-NYC-WAS corridor, Atlanta-JAX-Charlotte-Raleigh, HOU-DAL-AUS-SAN, DEN-COS-ALB, SLC valley, Florida.

    High speed rail would work in those regions. And any metro area of decent size can increasingly support intra-city rail. Like the Doovil said above about PHX's line, rail drives development, so you can better shape your city, reduce sprawl, and create virtuous rather than vicious cycles (more walking, biking, public transit, etc.)

  • doogiedoogie Member Posts: 15,072
    High speed rail fare from Cle Elum to Seattle, heavily subsidized, would cost far more then what the little people this "solution" is sold to, would be willing to pay.

    Rail as a "solution" toward moving people, is a circle jerk for emotional thinkers.
  • Mosster47Mosster47 Member Posts: 6,246
    AZDuck said:

    PurpleJ said:

    "All transportation modes require government subsidy"

    WRONG

    Name two that don't. There's only one transportation system, worldwide, that doesn't require a subsidy. The Hong Kong Metro.
    Holy Fuck, AZ has pummeled J this week.

    It's painful to see baseless stupidity in the internet age.

  • AZDuckAZDuck Member Posts: 15,381
    PurpleJ said:

    AZDuck said:

    PurpleJ said:

    "All transportation modes require government subsidy"

    WRONG

    Name two that don't. There's only one transportation system, worldwide, that doesn't require a subsidy. The Hong Kong Metro.
    Doesn't sound like all to me. It was fine as a private industry here for years.
    LOLwut

    Interstate Commerce Commission

    Railroad Land Giveaway

    19th Century Rail Subsidies



  • doogiedoogie Member Posts: 15,072
    Like I said, 19th century "solutions" to 21st century issues.

    Thanks for the links!
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