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With both Sanders and Trump calling for single payer health care and increasing taxes on the wealthy

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    2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes

    2001400ex said:

    OZONE said:

    By the way, the tax rate on the top 1% that Bernie is proposing, is still below the rate paid by that group during the Eisenhower administration... and I've never heard anybody call Eisenhower's policies communist.

    You're a good little freeshitter aren't you? It's almost as if you're dumber than a sack of rocks and will just parrot any old bullshit you're told as long as it demonizes someone who has more than you. Stop wanting some imaginary force in the government to equalize things for you, get off your retarded lazy ass and make it happen for yourself.

    You can start by educating yourself on marginal tax rates vs. real rate of taxation. It's a myth that anyone actually paid anything REMOTELY close to the 90% rates you're regurgitating. http://almostclassical.blogspot.com/2011/03/90-tax-rate-myth.html
    That article, while it does have a point that marginal rates are different than effective rate, is still fucktarded conservative lies. He references 1944. But what about the late 1950s when the top rate was 90% of the amounts over $100k. Then he uses tax receipts as a percentage of GDP and says it's been consistent. But 15% to 20% of GDP is a fucking large difference. That's like a trillion dollars.

    Not to mention he ignores the fact that while rates went down later, we added other taxes like social security and Medicare, for example.
    oh god there is no helping you

    Then state how I'm wrong.
  • Options
    allpurpleallgoldallpurpleallgold Member Posts: 8,771
    5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes Combo Breaker First Anniversary

    Then we can all get great care like the VA

    Or, you know, Medicare.

    But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there.
    Majority of Americans support a policy. Policy is completely unachievable. Candidate says system is rigged, need a political revolution. Candidate is unelectable.

    Tell me again about how we're the greatest nation on earth. Lol.
    Do you want a real answer on why single-payer is not feasible, or are you just here to bitch and moan about the status quo?
    You'd be the first person to offer a real answer.
    Then I'll shoot.

    Single-payer would first and foremost require an end to the massive medical insurance interests that exist in our country. There is simply way too much lobbying and campaign financing from these corporations to ever allow Congress to pass legislation that would effectively bankrupt their business in the United States. That alone makes single-payer a political non-starter. It's the entire reason Obamacare still caters to the industry; it would have never passed and near universal coverage would have never been achieved had it also ran counter to the interests of insurance companies.

    Looking past that, there's also the hurdle (that we wouldn't even get to face until the insurance interests are magically erased from Congress) of how politically digestible single-payer would be to the electorate as a whole. While a majority of Americans may favor single-payer in theory (I don't actually know if that's true, but I'm taking your word for it), passing such a law would eliminate their current healthcare plan and start them over from scratch. That's a tough pill to swallow for every well-to-do American who already receives excellent healthcare coverage.

    Then there's the issue of taxes, which would almost certainly have to be increased to finance a single-payer system. Of course, the rise in taxes would almost certainly be offset by the elimination of private healthcare premiums for a majority of Americans, but good luck convincing the electorate to make that connection and agree to a brand new payroll tax.

    All of that combines for one impossible piece of legislation to push through. Bernie is promising rainbows and bullshit by even putting it on his platform.
    It can't be done because money in politics. Well too bad Bernie isn't talking about that problem. Then he'd really have something.
  • Options
    GrundleStiltzkinGrundleStiltzkin Member Posts: 61,481
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    Standard Supporter

    Then we can all get great care like the VA

    Or, you know, Medicare.

    But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there.
    Majority of Americans support a policy. Policy is completely unachievable. Candidate says system is rigged, need a political revolution. Candidate is unelectable.

    Tell me again about how we're the greatest nation on earth. Lol.
    Do you want a real answer on why single-payer is not feasible, or are you just here to bitch and moan about the status quo?
    You'd be the first person to offer a real answer.
    Then I'll shoot.

    Single-payer would first and foremost require an end to the massive medical insurance interests that exist in our country. There is simply way too much lobbying and campaign financing from these corporations to ever allow Congress to pass legislation that would effectively bankrupt their business in the United States. That alone makes single-payer a political non-starter. It's the entire reason Obamacare still caters to the industry; it would have never passed and near universal coverage would have never been achieved had it also ran counter to the interests of insurance companies.

    Looking past that, there's also the hurdle (that we wouldn't even get to face until the insurance interests are magically erased from Congress) of how politically digestible single-payer would be to the electorate as a whole. While a majority of Americans may favor single-payer in theory (I don't actually know if that's true, but I'm taking your word for it), passing such a law would eliminate their current healthcare plan and start them over from scratch. That's a tough pill to swallow for every well-to-do American who already receives excellent healthcare coverage.

    Then there's the issue of taxes, which would almost certainly have to be increased to finance a single-payer system. Of course, the rise in taxes would almost certainly be offset by the elimination of private healthcare premiums for a majority of Americans, but good luck convincing the electorate to make that connection and agree to a brand new payroll tax.

    All of that combines for one impossible piece of legislation to push through. Bernie is promising rainbows and bullshit by even putting it on his platform.
    It can't be done because money in politics. Well too bad Bernie isn't talking about that problem. Then he'd really have something.
    Better to ask why there's money in politics.
  • Options
    RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 101,720
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes
    Swaye's Wigwam
    Been a rough campaign for big money so far. Needs more time to get their candidates in there
  • Options
    allpurpleallgoldallpurpleallgold Member Posts: 8,771
    5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes Combo Breaker First Anniversary

    Then we can all get great care like the VA

    Or, you know, Medicare.

    But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there.
    Majority of Americans support a policy. Policy is completely unachievable. Candidate says system is rigged, need a political revolution. Candidate is unelectable.

    Tell me again about how we're the greatest nation on earth. Lol.
    Do you want a real answer on why single-payer is not feasible, or are you just here to bitch and moan about the status quo?
    You'd be the first person to offer a real answer.
    Then I'll shoot.

    Single-payer would first and foremost require an end to the massive medical insurance interests that exist in our country. There is simply way too much lobbying and campaign financing from these corporations to ever allow Congress to pass legislation that would effectively bankrupt their business in the United States. That alone makes single-payer a political non-starter. It's the entire reason Obamacare still caters to the industry; it would have never passed and near universal coverage would have never been achieved had it also ran counter to the interests of insurance companies.

    Looking past that, there's also the hurdle (that we wouldn't even get to face until the insurance interests are magically erased from Congress) of how politically digestible single-payer would be to the electorate as a whole. While a majority of Americans may favor single-payer in theory (I don't actually know if that's true, but I'm taking your word for it), passing such a law would eliminate their current healthcare plan and start them over from scratch. That's a tough pill to swallow for every well-to-do American who already receives excellent healthcare coverage.

    Then there's the issue of taxes, which would almost certainly have to be increased to finance a single-payer system. Of course, the rise in taxes would almost certainly be offset by the elimination of private healthcare premiums for a majority of Americans, but good luck convincing the electorate to make that connection and agree to a brand new payroll tax.

    All of that combines for one impossible piece of legislation to push through. Bernie is promising rainbows and bullshit by even putting it on his platform.
    It can't be done because money in politics. Well too bad Bernie isn't talking about that problem. Then he'd really have something.
    Better to ask why there's money in politics.
    Can't ask. Some argument featuring circular logic. Case closed.
  • Options
    GrundleStiltzkinGrundleStiltzkin Member Posts: 61,481
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    Standard Supporter

    Then we can all get great care like the VA

    Or, you know, Medicare.

    But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there.
    Majority of Americans support a policy. Policy is completely unachievable. Candidate says system is rigged, need a political revolution. Candidate is unelectable.

    Tell me again about how we're the greatest nation on earth. Lol.
    Do you want a real answer on why single-payer is not feasible, or are you just here to bitch and moan about the status quo?
    You'd be the first person to offer a real answer.
    Then I'll shoot.

    Single-payer would first and foremost require an end to the massive medical insurance interests that exist in our country. There is simply way too much lobbying and campaign financing from these corporations to ever allow Congress to pass legislation that would effectively bankrupt their business in the United States. That alone makes single-payer a political non-starter. It's the entire reason Obamacare still caters to the industry; it would have never passed and near universal coverage would have never been achieved had it also ran counter to the interests of insurance companies.

    Looking past that, there's also the hurdle (that we wouldn't even get to face until the insurance interests are magically erased from Congress) of how politically digestible single-payer would be to the electorate as a whole. While a majority of Americans may favor single-payer in theory (I don't actually know if that's true, but I'm taking your word for it), passing such a law would eliminate their current healthcare plan and start them over from scratch. That's a tough pill to swallow for every well-to-do American who already receives excellent healthcare coverage.

    Then there's the issue of taxes, which would almost certainly have to be increased to finance a single-payer system. Of course, the rise in taxes would almost certainly be offset by the elimination of private healthcare premiums for a majority of Americans, but good luck convincing the electorate to make that connection and agree to a brand new payroll tax.

    All of that combines for one impossible piece of legislation to push through. Bernie is promising rainbows and bullshit by even putting it on his platform.
    It can't be done because money in politics. Well too bad Bernie isn't talking about that problem. Then he'd really have something.
    Better to ask why there's money in politics.
    Can't ask. Some argument featuring circular logic. Case closed.
    It's hard.
  • Options
    OZONEOZONE Member Posts: 2,510
    5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Swaye said:

    OZONE said:

    OZONE said:

    By the way, the tax rate on the top 1% that Bernie is proposing, is still below the rate paid by that group during the Eisenhower administration... and I've never heard anybody call Eisenhower's policies communist.

    get off your retarded lazy ass and make it happen for yourself.

    Huh? 8 years at MSFT, 5 at TMobile, and 3 at Amazon as a highly paid software dev. I own 3 rental properties in Seattle.

    Let's meet up and compare our respective balance sheets, and you'll see who has done more for themselves.

    I actually care about the rest of my nation's citizens. I think everybody deserves health care, and wall street welfare needs to end. Bernie is the only candidate honest enough to make this happen.

    In conclusion -- fuck off.
    I love 7-11 throwdowns over wallet size.
    I'm not here to argue wallet size... but if a fucker is going to imply that Sanders supporters are all lazy poor folks looking for a free transfer of wealth... I'm going to call the pussy out.
  • Options
    OZONEOZONE Member Posts: 2,510
    5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Anniversary Name Dropper
    dnc said:

    OZONE said:

    dnc said:

    OZONE said:

    ...does this mean that you wingers that don't want single payer health care, and don't want your dads paying higher taxes... will become Hillary supporters?

    If Trump's the GOP candidate I'm voting libertarian again. Trump is unpredictable as hell, I don't trust him to follow through with anything he's saying, good or bad.

    Hillary is shady as fuck.

    Bernies honest, but an honest commie is still a commie.

    Fuck them all.
    Bernie is a Democratic Socialist, not a Communist.

    If you have to make up lies to make your point, you are doing nothing but exposing just how poor your point is.
    No shit man. It's called a punchline. Pretty sure everyone here understands he's not a commie, d2d notwithstanding.

    I respect Bernie's integrity. I don't respect his policies.
    Oh... sorry man. I guess the lack of it being funny is why I didn't recognize it as a punchline.
  • Options
    OZONEOZONE Member Posts: 2,510
    5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Anniversary Name Dropper

    OZONE said:

    OZONE said:

    By the way, the tax rate on the top 1% that Bernie is proposing, is still below the rate paid by that group during the Eisenhower administration... and I've never heard anybody call Eisenhower's policies communist.

    You're a good little freeshitter aren't you? It's almost as if you're dumber than a sack of rocks and will just parrot any old bullshit you're told as long as it demonizes someone who has more than you. Stop wanting some imaginary force in the government to equalize things for you, get off your retarded lazy ass and make it happen for yourself.

    You can start by educating yourself on marginal tax rates vs. real rate of taxation. It's a myth that anyone actually paid anything REMOTELY close to the 90% rates you're regurgitating. http://almostclassical.blogspot.com/2011/03/90-tax-rate-myth.html
    I know two people who are working 2 jobs and probably 50-65 hours a week and they're both professionals. One probably clears 90,000-110,000 in his primary job yet he still has to do this. They still have a lot of debt. I work a several 45-50 hour weeks per yr. It's a little more complicated than "Get off your ass you lazy lib cocksucker" in a lot of cases. Healthscare coverage skyrockets and people who have insurance still get screwed.

    Sorry for the threadjack.
    You're not hijacking anything Bill and I appreciate the civil discourse. Of course it's more complicated than "Get off your ass you lazy lib cocksucker." My days start at 6:00 and don't end until roughly 8:00 so yeah I get the hard work and hours thing. I pay 100% of my employee's healthcare so I know about getting screwed. However, when some ignorant fuck starts spouting off bullshit about how the rich used to pay 95% taxes, I'm going to call that dumbfuck out and set the record straight. It's a lie designed to cause envy nothing more.
    You work hard, but still have plenty of time to hit a message board during the work day.

    And who said the rich used to pay 95%? I said the tax rate under a former president used to be in that range. The fact that it was an incremental rate -- changes the argument not one iota. The same incremental process will be used today -- and so the tax rate on the wealthiest americans (whether your shriveled vagina needs to call it incremental) will be lower under Sanders than it was under Eisenhower.

    So again, in conclusion -- fuck off.

    (but if you want to meet up and compare our balance sheets -- the offer is still open)
    Backtrack all you want dumbfuck. You know how I know you have a millimeter peter? Guys with truly big ones don't feel the need to compare.
    Huh? You implied all Berie supporters are lazy poor people looking for gov't handouts... I'm calling you out.

    But... sounds like you are just a keyboard pussy.

    That's what I though.
  • Options
    GreenRiverGatorzGreenRiverGatorz Member Posts: 10,147
    First Comment First Anniversary 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes

    Then we can all get great care like the VA

    Or, you know, Medicare.

    But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there.
    Majority of Americans support a policy. Policy is completely unachievable. Candidate says system is rigged, need a political revolution. Candidate is unelectable.

    Tell me again about how we're the greatest nation on earth. Lol.
    Do you want a real answer on why single-payer is not feasible, or are you just here to bitch and moan about the status quo?
    You'd be the first person to offer a real answer.
    Then I'll shoot.

    Single-payer would first and foremost require an end to the massive medical insurance interests that exist in our country. There is simply way too much lobbying and campaign financing from these corporations to ever allow Congress to pass legislation that would effectively bankrupt their business in the United States. That alone makes single-payer a political non-starter. It's the entire reason Obamacare still caters to the industry; it would have never passed and near universal coverage would have never been achieved had it also ran counter to the interests of insurance companies.

    Looking past that, there's also the hurdle (that we wouldn't even get to face until the insurance interests are magically erased from Congress) of how politically digestible single-payer would be to the electorate as a whole. While a majority of Americans may favor single-payer in theory (I don't actually know if that's true, but I'm taking your word for it), passing such a law would eliminate their current healthcare plan and start them over from scratch. That's a tough pill to swallow for every well-to-do American who already receives excellent healthcare coverage.

    Then there's the issue of taxes, which would almost certainly have to be increased to finance a single-payer system. Of course, the rise in taxes would almost certainly be offset by the elimination of private healthcare premiums for a majority of Americans, but good luck convincing the electorate to make that connection and agree to a brand new payroll tax.

    All of that combines for one impossible piece of legislation to push through. Bernie is promising rainbows and bullshit by even putting it on his platform.
    It can't be done because money in politics. Well too bad Bernie isn't talking about that problem. Then he'd really have something.
    And that's yet another problem he can't solve, and even more smoke he's blowing up the asses of all of his supporters. Until Citizens United is overturned, nothing is going to change on that front. All he can do is appoint the most liberal justice available if a SCOTUS spot opens up. If that does eventually get overturned, then you have to actually have a Congress that's willing to pass a law that bans campaign contributions from anything other than a public fund. The GOP won't even blink an eye at that proposal. I'm guessing a lot of democrats won't either.

    Bernie is strong on ideals, and very light on actual solutions in today's political environment.
  • Options
    GreenRiverGatorzGreenRiverGatorz Member Posts: 10,147
    First Comment First Anniversary 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes

    Then we can all get great care like the VA

    Or, you know, Medicare.

    But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there.
    With medicare you could keep your doctor.

    At this point we need to overhaul the system because we keep making it worse. People want those that can't afford care to get it. I do.

    The question is how to do that while also allowing those that got good insurance from their job or union to keep it and keep the free choice of providers and care.

    Obamacare was written by insurance companies. They were the only winners. Everyone else lost.

    If I actually thought we could eliminate insurance with single payer and bring back our level of care I could go for it. I don't have a lot of trust
    It's unfair to characterize insurance companies as the only winners from Obamacare. As with any public policy, there are winners and plenty of collateral damage. Before Obamacare, there were millions of Americans who were flat out denied healthcare coverage because they were too risky to insure. That problem has been effectively eliminated by the law. Of course, the natural economic effect of flooding a large pool of risky customers into the marketplace meant that many people saw increased premiums, and in some cases, they lost their doctor. The next step is to lower costs and address the massive amounts of waste that exist in the current system. If I had a policy proposal that could do that, I'd be working in DC right now.
  • Options
    RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 101,720
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes
    Swaye's Wigwam

    Then we can all get great care like the VA

    Or, you know, Medicare.

    But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there.
    With medicare you could keep your doctor.

    At this point we need to overhaul the system because we keep making it worse. People want those that can't afford care to get it. I do.

    The question is how to do that while also allowing those that got good insurance from their job or union to keep it and keep the free choice of providers and care.

    Obamacare was written by insurance companies. They were the only winners. Everyone else lost.

    If I actually thought we could eliminate insurance with single payer and bring back our level of care I could go for it. I don't have a lot of trust
    It's unfair to characterize insurance companies as the only winners from Obamacare. As with any public policy, there are winners and plenty of collateral damage. Before Obamacare, there were millions of Americans who were flat out denied healthcare coverage because they were too risky to insure. That problem has been effectively eliminated by the law. Of course, the natural economic effect of flooding a large pool of risky customers into the marketplace meant that many people saw increased premiums, and in some cases, they lost their doctor. The next step is to lower costs and address the massive amounts of waste that exist in the current system. If I had a policy proposal that could do that, I'd be working in DC right now.
    We could have wrote a check to the folks who needed insurance or a doctor.

    The collateral damage is severe.
  • Options
    whatshouldicareaboutwhatshouldicareabout Member Posts: 12,475
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes

    OZONE said:

    Then we can all get great care like the VA

    If 20+ other countries, have all figured out how to have a great, gov't run, single payer systems at a lower cost than ours -- I'm sure ours can.

    Unless you doubt we are as great as some say we are...
    Do you really know what a single-payer system is?

    The Netherlands has arguably the best healthcare system in Europe. Are they a single-payer system? Nope. Uh, what about Germany? Nah. Japan? No. France? Nah, multi-payer as well.

    There are many wealthy nations that opt for national multi-payer systems versus single-payer. The reason why a single-payer system won't work well in the US is due to its geographic diversity and medical practice. Policies and purchasing is going to be different whether you're in the East, the South, the Midwest, and out here in the West. Blah, blah, blah, I could go into more but I'm lazy, so I'll just end it here.
    Japan has single pay.

    http://truecostblog.com/2009/08/09/countries-with-universal-healthcare-by-date/

    There is a big difference between single, two-pay (what most of the countries you listed have), and insurance mandate (what the US has). Two-tier also has coverage for everyone through the government.

    https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-single-payer-two-tier-and-insurance-mandate-healthcare-systems
    I'm late but Japan is misclassified as single.

    I'm lazy so here's wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_system_in_Japan
  • Options
    2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes

    Then we can all get great care like the VA

    Or, you know, Medicare.

    But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there.
    With medicare you could keep your doctor.

    At this point we need to overhaul the system because we keep making it worse. People want those that can't afford care to get it. I do.

    The question is how to do that while also allowing those that got good insurance from their job or union to keep it and keep the free choice of providers and care.

    Obamacare was written by insurance companies. They were the only winners. Everyone else lost.

    If I actually thought we could eliminate insurance with single payer and bring back our level of care I could go for it. I don't have a lot of trust
    It's unfair to characterize insurance companies as the only winners from Obamacare. As with any public policy, there are winners and plenty of collateral damage. Before Obamacare, there were millions of Americans who were flat out denied healthcare coverage because they were too risky to insure. That problem has been effectively eliminated by the law. Of course, the natural economic effect of flooding a large pool of risky customers into the marketplace meant that many people saw increased premiums, and in some cases, they lost their doctor. The next step is to lower costs and address the massive amounts of waste that exist in the current system. If I had a policy proposal that could do that, I'd be working in DC right now.
    We could have wrote a check to the folks who needed insurance or a doctor.

    The collateral damage is severe.
    Or we could just go single payer and take profits out of people's health.

    Reality is that'll never happen because the insurance lobby.
  • Options
    allpurpleallgoldallpurpleallgold Member Posts: 8,771
    5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes Combo Breaker First Anniversary

    Then we can all get great care like the VA

    Or, you know, Medicare.

    But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there.
    Majority of Americans support a policy. Policy is completely unachievable. Candidate says system is rigged, need a political revolution. Candidate is unelectable.

    Tell me again about how we're the greatest nation on earth. Lol.
    Do you want a real answer on why single-payer is not feasible, or are you just here to bitch and moan about the status quo?
    You'd be the first person to offer a real answer.
    Then I'll shoot.

    Single-payer would first and foremost require an end to the massive medical insurance interests that exist in our country. There is simply way too much lobbying and campaign financing from these corporations to ever allow Congress to pass legislation that would effectively bankrupt their business in the United States. That alone makes single-payer a political non-starter. It's the entire reason Obamacare still caters to the industry; it would have never passed and near universal coverage would have never been achieved had it also ran counter to the interests of insurance companies.

    Looking past that, there's also the hurdle (that we wouldn't even get to face until the insurance interests are magically erased from Congress) of how politically digestible single-payer would be to the electorate as a whole. While a majority of Americans may favor single-payer in theory (I don't actually know if that's true, but I'm taking your word for it), passing such a law would eliminate their current healthcare plan and start them over from scratch. That's a tough pill to swallow for every well-to-do American who already receives excellent healthcare coverage.

    Then there's the issue of taxes, which would almost certainly have to be increased to finance a single-payer system. Of course, the rise in taxes would almost certainly be offset by the elimination of private healthcare premiums for a majority of Americans, but good luck convincing the electorate to make that connection and agree to a brand new payroll tax.

    All of that combines for one impossible piece of legislation to push through. Bernie is promising rainbows and bullshit by even putting it on his platform.
    It can't be done because money in politics. Well too bad Bernie isn't talking about that problem. Then he'd really have something.
    And that's yet another problem he can't solve, and even more smoke he's blowing up the asses of all of his supporters. Until Citizens United is overturned, nothing is going to change on that front. All he can do is appoint the most liberal justice available if a SCOTUS spot opens up. If that does eventually get overturned, then you have to actually have a Congress that's willing to pass a law that bans campaign contributions from anything other than a public fund. The GOP won't even blink an eye at that proposal. I'm guessing a lot of democrats won't either.

    Bernie is strong on ideals, and very light on actual solutions in today's political environment.
    It's almost like we need a political revolution or something.

    As long as people shrug their shoulders and say we can't, we won't.
  • Options
    GreenRiverGatorzGreenRiverGatorz Member Posts: 10,147
    First Comment First Anniversary 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes

    Then we can all get great care like the VA

    Or, you know, Medicare.

    But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there.
    Majority of Americans support a policy. Policy is completely unachievable. Candidate says system is rigged, need a political revolution. Candidate is unelectable.

    Tell me again about how we're the greatest nation on earth. Lol.
    Do you want a real answer on why single-payer is not feasible, or are you just here to bitch and moan about the status quo?
    You'd be the first person to offer a real answer.
    Then I'll shoot.

    Single-payer would first and foremost require an end to the massive medical insurance interests that exist in our country. There is simply way too much lobbying and campaign financing from these corporations to ever allow Congress to pass legislation that would effectively bankrupt their business in the United States. That alone makes single-payer a political non-starter. It's the entire reason Obamacare still caters to the industry; it would have never passed and near universal coverage would have never been achieved had it also ran counter to the interests of insurance companies.

    Looking past that, there's also the hurdle (that we wouldn't even get to face until the insurance interests are magically erased from Congress) of how politically digestible single-payer would be to the electorate as a whole. While a majority of Americans may favor single-payer in theory (I don't actually know if that's true, but I'm taking your word for it), passing such a law would eliminate their current healthcare plan and start them over from scratch. That's a tough pill to swallow for every well-to-do American who already receives excellent healthcare coverage.

    Then there's the issue of taxes, which would almost certainly have to be increased to finance a single-payer system. Of course, the rise in taxes would almost certainly be offset by the elimination of private healthcare premiums for a majority of Americans, but good luck convincing the electorate to make that connection and agree to a brand new payroll tax.

    All of that combines for one impossible piece of legislation to push through. Bernie is promising rainbows and bullshit by even putting it on his platform.
    It can't be done because money in politics. Well too bad Bernie isn't talking about that problem. Then he'd really have something.
    And that's yet another problem he can't solve, and even more smoke he's blowing up the asses of all of his supporters. Until Citizens United is overturned, nothing is going to change on that front. All he can do is appoint the most liberal justice available if a SCOTUS spot opens up. If that does eventually get overturned, then you have to actually have a Congress that's willing to pass a law that bans campaign contributions from anything other than a public fund. The GOP won't even blink an eye at that proposal. I'm guessing a lot of democrats won't either.

    Bernie is strong on ideals, and very light on actual solutions in today's political environment.
    It's almost like we need a political revolution or something.

    As long as people shrug their shoulders and say we can't, we won't.
    You're not going to get a revolution when such a large portion of our country finds the very idea of one appalling. Republicans will always control enough of Congress to stop any meaningful legislation from getting through. That's the reality of our political landscape. Bernie has no tools to deal with that.
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    doogsinparadisedoogsinparadise Member Posts: 9,320
    5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Anniversary Name Dropper

    Then we can all get great care like the VA

    Or, you know, Medicare.

    But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there.
    Incrementalism seems to work so well.
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    doogsinparadisedoogsinparadise Member Posts: 9,320
    5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Anniversary Name Dropper

    Then we can all get great care like the VA

    Or, you know, Medicare.

    But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there.
    With medicare you could keep your doctor.

    At this point we need to overhaul the system because we keep making it worse. People want those that can't afford care to get it. I do.

    The question is how to do that while also allowing those that got good insurance from their job or union to keep it and keep the free choice of providers and care.

    Obamacare was written by insurance companies. They were the only winners. Everyone else lost.

    If I actually thought we could eliminate insurance with single payer and bring back our level of care I could go for it. I don't have a lot of trust
    This.
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    priapismpriapism Member Posts: 2,036
    5 Up Votes First Anniversary Combo Breaker 5 Awesomes
    edited February 2016
    @OZONE

    Repealing Glass-Steagall caused the latest Banking collapse and ended up costing the U.S. $6-8 trillion in eventual bailout, welfare damage and severely weakened the dollar via the new debt.

    The AMA, ABA, big pharma, and hospitals are making healthcare unaffordable. Both of my parents have had emergency room visits in the past decade, where the hospitals charged them over $350,000 each for heart issues and about 10 days each in the hospital. The current health system isn't sustainable and is being sucked dry (in a bad way) by the above culprits.

    Bernie is probably the only candidate who will actually tear apart these 2 broken systems. Everyone else in the field just seems to be owned by the above lobbyists = no change and more debt next year.
    All the rest of the candidates look like they would love to be the next CEO of Goldman Scams. $$$

    Taiwan is supposedly the healthcare system to model. 6% of GDP.
    http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2015/05/14-taiwan-national-healthcare-cheng
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    RoadDawg55RoadDawg55 Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 30,123
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes Combo Breaker
    Swaye's Wigwam

    dnc said:

    OZONE said:

    dnc said:

    OZONE said:

    ...does this mean that you wingers that don't want single payer health care, and don't want your dads paying higher taxes... will become Hillary supporters?

    If Trump's the GOP candidate I'm voting libertarian again. Trump is unpredictable as hell, I don't trust him to follow through with anything he's saying, good or bad.

    Hillary is shady as fuck.

    Bernies honest, but an honest commie is still a commie.

    Fuck them all.
    Bernie is a Democratic Socialist, not a Communist.

    If you have to make up lies to make your point, you are doing nothing but exposing just how poor your point is.
    No shit man. It's called a punchline. Pretty sure everyone here understands he's not a commie, d2d notwithstanding.

    I respect Bernie's integrity. I don't respect his policies.
    He's a career politician, nuff said on that..
    True, but there seems to be a notable difference between Bernie and the Clinton's, Bush, Obama, and Trump. You can't get to the point Bernie has without a huge ego, but he's more genuinely concerned about the people in this country than the others. The Clinton's Bush's, Obama, and Trump are in it for the power and celebrity. Bernie probably is too, at least part of him, but it doesn't come off as desperate and pathetic like it does for the others.
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