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With both Sanders and Trump calling for single payer health care and increasing taxes on the wealthy
OZONE
Member Posts: 2,510
in Tug Tavern
...does this mean that you wingers that don't want single payer health care, and don't want your dads paying higher taxes... will become Hillary supporters?
Comments
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FtfyRaceBannon said:
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In the last 10 years, I've been increasingly favoring whatever can lower the % of GDP the country spends on healthcare.
Even before the Obamacare reform, public spending on healthcare was approaching 50% and now it's more than 50% (with Medicare and Medicaid continuing to grow).
So if a single payer system, to which we are already more than halfway there, could lower the % of GDP we spend on healthcare to 14 or 15%, what's the problem? Wouldn't need to raise taxes either...it would simple be a wealth transfer from artificially over-compensated hospitals, PPOs, doctors, and plaintiffs lawyers to the Federal Government.
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Then we can all get great care like the VA
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Along with all the efficiency and economy of a government run programRaceBannon said:Then we can all get great care like the VA
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If 20+ other countries, have all figured out how to have a great, gov't run, single payer systems at a lower cost than ours -- I'm sure ours can.RaceBannon said:Then we can all get great care like the VA
Unless you doubt we are as great as some say we are... -
Do you really know what a single-payer system is?OZONE said:
If 20+ other countries, have all figured out how to have a great, gov't run, single payer systems at a lower cost than ours -- I'm sure ours can.RaceBannon said:Then we can all get great care like the VA
Unless you doubt we are as great as some say we are...
The Netherlands has arguably the best healthcare system in Europe. Are they a single-payer system? Nope. Uh, what about Germany? Nah. Japan? No. France? Nah, multi-payer as well.
There are many wealthy nations that opt for national multi-payer systems versus single-payer. The reason why a single-payer system won't work well in the US is due to its geographic diversity and medical practice. Policies and purchasing is going to be different whether you're in the East, the South, the Midwest, and out here in the West. Blah, blah, blah, I could go into more but I'm lazy, so I'll just end it here. -
Da Fuq?whatshouldicareabout said:
Do you really know what a single-payer system is?OZONE said:
If 20+ other countries, have all figured out how to have a great, gov't run, single payer systems at a lower cost than ours -- I'm sure ours can.RaceBannon said:Then we can all get great care like the VA
Unless you doubt we are as great as some say we are...
The Netherlands has arguably the best healthcare system in Europe. Are they a single-payer system? Nope. Uh, what about Germany? Nah. Japan? No. France? Nah, multi-payer as well.
There are many wealthy nations that opt for national multi-payer systems versus single-payer. The reason why a single-payer system won't work well in the US is due to its geographic diversity and medical practice. Policies and purchasing is going to be different whether you're in the East, the South, the Midwest, and out here in the West. Blah, blah, blah, I could go into more but I'm lazy, so I'll just end it here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_coverage_by_country
Germany has the world's oldest national social health insurance system,[66][67][68] with origins dating back to Otto von Bismarck's Sickness Insurance Law of 1883.[69][70] The system is decentralized with private practice physicians providing ambulatory care, and independent, mostly non-profit hospitals providing the majority of inpatient care. Approximately 92% of the population is covered by a 'Statutory Health Insurance' plan, which provides a standardized level of coverage through any one of approximately 1100 public or private sickness funds. Standard insurance is funded by a combination of employee contributions, employer contributions and government subsidies on a scale determined by income level. Higher income workers sometimes choose to pay a tax and opt out of the standard plan, in favor of 'private' insurance. The latter's premiums are not linked to income level but instead to health status.
The Netherlands has a dual-level system. All primary and curative care (i.e. the family doctor service and hospitals and clinics) is financed from private compulsory insurance. Long term care for the elderly, the dying, the long term mentally ill etc. is covered by social insurance funded from taxation. According to the WHO, the health care system in the Netherlands was 62% government funded and 38% privately funded as of 2004.
Those systems are all considered "socialized medicine" by politicians and the media. -
Japan has single pay.whatshouldicareabout said:
Do you really know what a single-payer system is?OZONE said:
If 20+ other countries, have all figured out how to have a great, gov't run, single payer systems at a lower cost than ours -- I'm sure ours can.RaceBannon said:Then we can all get great care like the VA
Unless you doubt we are as great as some say we are...
The Netherlands has arguably the best healthcare system in Europe. Are they a single-payer system? Nope. Uh, what about Germany? Nah. Japan? No. France? Nah, multi-payer as well.
There are many wealthy nations that opt for national multi-payer systems versus single-payer. The reason why a single-payer system won't work well in the US is due to its geographic diversity and medical practice. Policies and purchasing is going to be different whether you're in the East, the South, the Midwest, and out here in the West. Blah, blah, blah, I could go into more but I'm lazy, so I'll just end it here.
http://truecostblog.com/2009/08/09/countries-with-universal-healthcare-by-date/
There is a big difference between single, two-pay (what most of the countries you listed have), and insurance mandate (what the US has). Two-tier also has coverage for everyone through the government.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-single-payer-two-tier-and-insurance-mandate-healthcare-systems
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If Trump's the GOP candidate I'm voting libertarian again. Trump is unpredictable as hell, I don't trust him to follow through with anything he's saying, good or bad.OZONE said:...does this mean that you wingers that don't want single payer health care, and don't want your dads paying higher taxes... will become Hillary supporters?
Hillary is shady as fuck.
Bernies honest, but an honest commie is still a commie.
Fuck them all. -
Like I said, we have the VAOZONE said:
If 20+ other countries, have all figured out how to have a great, gov't run, single payer systems at a lower cost than ours -- I'm sure ours can.RaceBannon said:Then we can all get great care like the VA
Unless you doubt we are as great as some say we are...
You can always LEAVE to one of those countries. Not sure our system can afford much more improvement after Obamacare saved us all 2500 a year -
Yeah, and not single-payer like every buttfuck on here is talking about.2001400ex said:
Da Fuq?whatshouldicareabout said:
Do you really know what a single-payer system is?OZONE said:
If 20+ other countries, have all figured out how to have a great, gov't run, single payer systems at a lower cost than ours -- I'm sure ours can.RaceBannon said:Then we can all get great care like the VA
Unless you doubt we are as great as some say we are...
The Netherlands has arguably the best healthcare system in Europe. Are they a single-payer system? Nope. Uh, what about Germany? Nah. Japan? No. France? Nah, multi-payer as well.
There are many wealthy nations that opt for national multi-payer systems versus single-payer. The reason why a single-payer system won't work well in the US is due to its geographic diversity and medical practice. Policies and purchasing is going to be different whether you're in the East, the South, the Midwest, and out here in the West. Blah, blah, blah, I could go into more but I'm lazy, so I'll just end it here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_coverage_by_country
Germany has the world's oldest national social health insurance system,[66][67][68] with origins dating back to Otto von Bismarck's Sickness Insurance Law of 1883.[69][70] The system is decentralized with private practice physicians providing ambulatory care, and independent, mostly non-profit hospitals providing the majority of inpatient care. Approximately 92% of the population is covered by a 'Statutory Health Insurance' plan, which provides a standardized level of coverage through any one of approximately 1100 public or private sickness funds. Standard insurance is funded by a combination of employee contributions, employer contributions and government subsidies on a scale determined by income level. Higher income workers sometimes choose to pay a tax and opt out of the standard plan, in favor of 'private' insurance. The latter's premiums are not linked to income level but instead to health status.
The Netherlands has a dual-level system. All primary and curative care (i.e. the family doctor service and hospitals and clinics) is financed from private compulsory insurance. Long term care for the elderly, the dying, the long term mentally ill etc. is covered by social insurance funded from taxation. According to the WHO, the health care system in the Netherlands was 62% government funded and 38% privately funded as of 2004.
Those systems are all considered "socialized medicine" by politicians and the media.
The point I'm trying to make is there are more options than "single-payer" and that "single-payer" will never work in the US given how big and diverse it is. -
I know you are being sarcastic, but the insurance mandate isn't what Obama campaigned on. He campaigned in single payer, which is what he said would save $2,500 a year.RaceBannon said:
Like I said, we have the VAOZONE said:
If 20+ other countries, have all figured out how to have a great, gov't run, single payer systems at a lower cost than ours -- I'm sure ours can.RaceBannon said:Then we can all get great care like the VA
Unless you doubt we are as great as some say we are...
You can always LEAVE to one of those countries. Not sure our system can afford much more improvement after Obamacare saved us all 2500 a year
I know I have saved money, my insurance has gone up less than 3% the last few years after going up between 8 and 13% the 10 years prior. You can do the math. -
I like to compliment someone's honesty and then immediately be completely dishonest about their position. I like to do that.dnc said:
If Trump's the GOP candidate I'm voting libertarian again. Trump is unpredictable as hell, I don't trust him to follow through with anything he's saying, good or bad.OZONE said:...does this mean that you wingers that don't want single payer health care, and don't want your dads paying higher taxes... will become Hillary supporters?
Hillary is shady as fuck.
Bernies honest, but an honest commie is still a commie.
Fuck them all. -
Bernie is a Democratic Socialist, not a Communist.dnc said:
If Trump's the GOP candidate I'm voting libertarian again. Trump is unpredictable as hell, I don't trust him to follow through with anything he's saying, good or bad.OZONE said:...does this mean that you wingers that don't want single payer health care, and don't want your dads paying higher taxes... will become Hillary supporters?
Hillary is shady as fuck.
Bernies honest, but an honest commie is still a commie.
Fuck them all.
If you have to make up lies to make your point, you are doing nothing but exposing just how poor your point is. -
By the way, the tax rate on the top 1% that Bernie is proposing, is still below the rate paid by that group during the Eisenhower administration... and I've never heard anybody call Eisenhower's policies communist.
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You lie like Obama the 2500 was for the bill he passed2001400ex said:
I know you are being sarcastic, but the insurance mandate isn't what Obama campaigned on. He campaigned in single payer, which is what he said would save $2,500 a year.RaceBannon said:
Like I said, we have the VAOZONE said:
If 20+ other countries, have all figured out how to have a great, gov't run, single payer systems at a lower cost than ours -- I'm sure ours can.RaceBannon said:Then we can all get great care like the VA
Unless you doubt we are as great as some say we are...
You can always LEAVE to one of those countries. Not sure our system can afford much more improvement after Obamacare saved us all 2500 a year
I know I have saved money, my insurance has gone up less than 3% the last few years after going up between 8 and 13% the 10 years prior. You can do the math.
I'll just assume the rest of your post is a lie as well -
I'll vote for Trump. And if someone like Jeb is nominated I'll vote for Bernie
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Or, you know, Medicare.RaceBannon said:Then we can all get great care like the VA
But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there. -
Majority of Americans support a policy. Policy is completely unachievable. Candidate says system is rigged, need a political revolution. Candidate is unelectable.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Or, you know, Medicare.RaceBannon said:Then we can all get great care like the VA
But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there.
Tell me again about how we're the greatest nation on earth. Lol. -
You're a good little freeshitter aren't you? It's almost as if you're dumber than a sack of rocks and will just parrot any old bullshit you're told as long as it demonizes someone who has more than you. Stop wanting some imaginary force in the government to equalize things for you, get off your retarded lazy ass and make it happen for yourself.OZONE said:By the way, the tax rate on the top 1% that Bernie is proposing, is still below the rate paid by that group during the Eisenhower administration... and I've never heard anybody call Eisenhower's policies communist.
You can start by educating yourself on marginal tax rates vs. real rate of taxation. It's a myth that anyone actually paid anything REMOTELY close to the 90% rates you're regurgitating. http://almostclassical.blogspot.com/2011/03/90-tax-rate-myth.html
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Do you want a real answer on why single-payer is not feasible, or are you just here to bitch and moan about the status quo?allpurpleallgold said:
Majority of Americans support a policy. Policy is completely unachievable. Candidate says system is rigged, need a political revolution. Candidate is unelectable.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Or, you know, Medicare.RaceBannon said:Then we can all get great care like the VA
But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there.
Tell me again about how we're the greatest nation on earth. Lol. -
Huh? 8 years at MSFT, 5 at TMobile, and 3 at Amazon as a highly paid software dev. I own 3 rental properties in Seattle.DuckHHunterisafag said:
get off your retarded lazy ass and make it happen for yourself.OZONE said:By the way, the tax rate on the top 1% that Bernie is proposing, is still below the rate paid by that group during the Eisenhower administration... and I've never heard anybody call Eisenhower's policies communist.
Let's meet up and compare our respective balance sheets, and you'll see who has done more for themselves.
I actually care about the rest of my nation's citizens. I think everybody deserves health care, and wall street welfare needs to end. Bernie is the only candidate honest enough to make this happen.
In conclusion -- fuck off.
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Thanks Chatch. Your forgot the little diddy about how you fucked his wife/gf with your diamond cutter erection though.OZONE said:
Huh? 8 years at MSFT, 5 at TMobile, and 3 at Amazon as a highly paid software dev. I own 3 rental properties in Seattle.DuckHHunterisafag said:
get off your retarded lazy ass and make it happen for yourself.OZONE said:By the way, the tax rate on the top 1% that Bernie is proposing, is still below the rate paid by that group during the Eisenhower administration... and I've never heard anybody call Eisenhower's policies communist.
Let's meet up and compare our respective balance sheets, and you'll see who has done more for themselves.
I actually care about the rest of my nation's citizens. I think everybody deserves health care, and wall street welfare needs to end. Bernie is the only candidate honest enough to make this happen.
In conclusion -- fuck off. -
OZONE said:
Huh? 8 years at MSFT, 5 at TMobile, and 3 at Amazon as a highly paid software dev. I own 3 rental properties in Seattle.DuckHHunterisafag said:
get off your retarded lazy ass and make it happen for yourself.OZONE said:By the way, the tax rate on the top 1% that Bernie is proposing, is still below the rate paid by that group during the Eisenhower administration... and I've never heard anybody call Eisenhower's policies communist.
Let's meet up and compare our respective balance sheets, and you'll see who has done more for themselves.
I actually care about the rest of my nation's citizens. I think everybody deserves health care, and wall street welfare needs to end. Bernie is the only candidate honest enough to make this happen.
In conclusion -- fuck off.
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I know two people who are working 2 jobs and probably 50-65 hours a week and they're both professionals. One probably clears 90,000-110,000 in his primary job yet he still has to do this. They still have a lot of debt. I work a several 45-50 hour weeks per yr. It's a little more complicated than "Get off your ass you lazy lib cocksucker" in a lot of cases. Healthscare coverage skyrockets and people who have insurance still get screwed.DuckHHunterisafag said:
You're a good little freeshitter aren't you? It's almost as if you're dumber than a sack of rocks and will just parrot any old bullshit you're told as long as it demonizes someone who has more than you. Stop wanting some imaginary force in the government to equalize things for you, get off your retarded lazy ass and make it happen for yourself.OZONE said:By the way, the tax rate on the top 1% that Bernie is proposing, is still below the rate paid by that group during the Eisenhower administration... and I've never heard anybody call Eisenhower's policies communist.
You can start by educating yourself on marginal tax rates vs. real rate of taxation. It's a myth that anyone actually paid anything REMOTELY close to the 90% rates you're regurgitating. http://almostclassical.blogspot.com/2011/03/90-tax-rate-myth.html
Sorry for the threadjack. -
So don't educate yourself. I don't give a fuck if you remain ignorant to the truth and continue believing that taxing the rich will do shit to help your? nation's citizens. Read the link I posted and the well educated responses below the article if you actually care. What's funny is you think you're intelligent because you wrote code and made a little money. In those 8 years you're so proud of, I generated more than $30,000,000 in tax revenue for your? nation's citizens. Do you think they were able to do more with that money or your 3 rental properties? Do you want to compare dick sizes too?OZONE said:
Huh? 8 years at MSFT, 5 at TMobile, and 3 at Amazon as a highly paid software dev. I own 3 rental properties in Seattle.DuckHHunterisafag said:
get off your retarded lazy ass and make it happen for yourself.OZONE said:By the way, the tax rate on the top 1% that Bernie is proposing, is still below the rate paid by that group during the Eisenhower administration... and I've never heard anybody call Eisenhower's policies communist.
Let's meet up and compare our respective balance sheets, and you'll see who has done more for themselves.
I actually care about the rest of my nation's citizens. I think everybody deserves health care, and wall street welfare needs to end. Bernie is the only candidate honest enough to make this happen.
In conclusion -- fuck off.
"With a $3.5 trillion annual budget, all the wealth of Bill Gates ($45B) would fund 1.3% (4.7 days) of the U.S. government. That's it. Not even one week. The 400 richest Americans, all their wealth, would fund the system for 100 days. There are 403 billionaires in the U.S., with a total net worth of $1.28 trillion.
http://almostclassical.blogspot.com/2010_11_01_archive.html
The numbers haven't changed much. You might get 180 days by taking (not even taxing) all the money of the One Percent. Better to grow the economy for everyone than to merely seek some sort of "fairness" through taxes. Then what? The rich would be poor… and the nation, still broke." C.S. Wyatt -
You'd be the first person to offer a real answer.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Do you want a real answer on why single-payer is not feasible, or are you just here to bitch and moan about the status quo?allpurpleallgold said:
Majority of Americans support a policy. Policy is completely unachievable. Candidate says system is rigged, need a political revolution. Candidate is unelectable.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Or, you know, Medicare.RaceBannon said:Then we can all get great care like the VA
But it's totally moot. Single-payer is one of the most unachievable policies out there.
Tell me again about how we're the greatest nation on earth. Lol. -
You're not hijacking anything Bill and I appreciate the civil discourse. Of course it's more complicated than "Get off your ass you lazy lib cocksucker." My days start at 6:00 and don't end until roughly 8:00 so yeah I get the hard work and hours thing. I pay 100% of my employee's healthcare so I know about getting screwed. However, when some ignorant fuck starts spouting off bullshit about how the rich used to pay 95% taxes, I'm going to call that dumbfuck out and set the record straight. It's a lie designed to cause envy nothing more.Fire_Marshall_Bill said:
I know two people who are working 2 jobs and probably 50-65 hours a week and they're both professionals. One probably clears 90,000-110,000 in his primary job yet he still has to do this. They still have a lot of debt. I work a several 45-50 hour weeks per yr. It's a little more complicated than "Get off your ass you lazy lib cocksucker" in a lot of cases. Healthscare coverage skyrockets and people who have insurance still get screwed.DuckHHunterisafag said:
You're a good little freeshitter aren't you? It's almost as if you're dumber than a sack of rocks and will just parrot any old bullshit you're told as long as it demonizes someone who has more than you. Stop wanting some imaginary force in the government to equalize things for you, get off your retarded lazy ass and make it happen for yourself.OZONE said:By the way, the tax rate on the top 1% that Bernie is proposing, is still below the rate paid by that group during the Eisenhower administration... and I've never heard anybody call Eisenhower's policies communist.
You can start by educating yourself on marginal tax rates vs. real rate of taxation. It's a myth that anyone actually paid anything REMOTELY close to the 90% rates you're regurgitating. http://almostclassical.blogspot.com/2011/03/90-tax-rate-myth.html
Sorry for the threadjack. -
You work hard, but still have plenty of time to hit a message board during the work day.DuckHHunterisafag said:
You're not hijacking anything Bill and I appreciate the civil discourse. Of course it's more complicated than "Get off your ass you lazy lib cocksucker." My days start at 6:00 and don't end until roughly 8:00 so yeah I get the hard work and hours thing. I pay 100% of my employee's healthcare so I know about getting screwed. However, when some ignorant fuck starts spouting off bullshit about how the rich used to pay 95% taxes, I'm going to call that dumbfuck out and set the record straight. It's a lie designed to cause envy nothing more.Fire_Marshall_Bill said:
I know two people who are working 2 jobs and probably 50-65 hours a week and they're both professionals. One probably clears 90,000-110,000 in his primary job yet he still has to do this. They still have a lot of debt. I work a several 45-50 hour weeks per yr. It's a little more complicated than "Get off your ass you lazy lib cocksucker" in a lot of cases. Healthscare coverage skyrockets and people who have insurance still get screwed.DuckHHunterisafag said:
You're a good little freeshitter aren't you? It's almost as if you're dumber than a sack of rocks and will just parrot any old bullshit you're told as long as it demonizes someone who has more than you. Stop wanting some imaginary force in the government to equalize things for you, get off your retarded lazy ass and make it happen for yourself.OZONE said:By the way, the tax rate on the top 1% that Bernie is proposing, is still below the rate paid by that group during the Eisenhower administration... and I've never heard anybody call Eisenhower's policies communist.
You can start by educating yourself on marginal tax rates vs. real rate of taxation. It's a myth that anyone actually paid anything REMOTELY close to the 90% rates you're regurgitating. http://almostclassical.blogspot.com/2011/03/90-tax-rate-myth.html
Sorry for the threadjack.
And who said the rich used to pay 95%? I said the tax rate under a former president used to be in that range. The fact that it was an incremental rate -- changes the argument not one iota. The same incremental process will be used today -- and so the tax rate on the wealthiest americans (whether your shriveled vagina needs to call it incremental) will be lower under Sanders than it was under Eisenhower.
So again, in conclusion -- fuck off.
(but if you want to meet up and compare our balance sheets -- the offer is still open)
