Good points...I guess I'm trying to say that I can see why the coaches took them especially since both are two year guys and generally give them the benefit of the doubt.
But they could easily suck, as has happened plenty of times before over the years.
I agree, it is confusing because they don't jump out on film and nobody else from the Pac-12 offered them.
But, people were saying the same thing about Dissly and that he was a reach / depth guy but then he made a few plays as a true frosh (that goal-line stop on 4th down @ Cal was awesome)...now he's looking like he'll be the #1 guy at Andrew Hudson's old spot.
From this staff's track record at BSU and what we've seen so far from their 2014 class, these guys know how to recruit and aren't star f*ckers like Sark and Neu are. Can't we trust the staff that these guys will add value for 2 years, at least until the evidence on the Pac-12 field says otherwise?
Regardless, it will be interesting to see what happens because a few on here are saying these guys suck and the staff is implicitly saying they don't so who will be right?
It sounds like you thought I was saying these depth guys (with slight chances of ever being starters) are the difference between 12-0 and 10-2 but I didn't say that.
Still, this coaching staff must have seen something in them right? They are both JC guys so if they can't break the two deeps in the next year or two, it doesn't hurt as much because they move on rather than taking up scholarships two or three additional years (like some guys in the 2011 and 2012 classes). Plus since the new staff arrived, WR StringfellowFS left, QB Troy Williams transferred, WR Kendly Taylor transferred, WR John Ross hurt his knee and is out for 2015, and MilesFS is likely to leave too. That's 2 QBs and 3 WRs from the 2012 and 2013 recruiting classes so the depth problem is obviously there....or do you want to ignore it, throw a fit, and insist that the staff bombed the 2015 recruiting class by not bringing in 5 star talent that could've helped at QB and WR immediately?
Depth can sometimes be the difference between going 6-6 (give or take a win) and going 4-8. With Ross now sitting out the year and assuming Miles is a goner, WR and QB is where the Huskies have the youngest depth for 2015.
IMO, this is one of the biggest flaws in UW fan's thinking. I used to see it all the time on dawgman. And I'm not saying it about this kid. I know nothing about him.
We have sucked for so long that "depth guys" are celebrated. "This guy isn't great, but he'll provide depth so that the freshmen don't have to redshirt."
"Depth guys" should ideally be young guys with established older guys in front of them or older guys playing behind All conference/ AA types. Good teams have 2nd and 3rd stringers that could start on other PAC 12 teams, and not just on WSU or Colorado.
It's time to increase the standards now that we have a real coach. No more celebrating depth and Evan Hudson types.
So far, Petersen's recruiting has been pretty good, but we need difference makers, not guys brought in for depth. And this rant isn't to be taken at total face value or to bash Petersen. It's just a general rant. We all can see why Petersen wanted to bring in another body or two at WR and QB.
As I said before, we all know why Petersen would want a couple more bodies at QB and WR. We all recognize that the talent and depth at those positions is far from ideal.
My problem is every recruit that sucks can be poo poo'd and has for as long as I have followed recruiting. I get it, fans are optimists and don't want to criticize the kids. Taylor Hindy was a good pick up because we were think on the OL and missed out on the big guns. With a couple years of development, he could be a depth guy. Same for Fuivai, Dean, Turpin, Rodgers, Petty, etc. Jordan Murchison, Qwentin Freeman, and all the other JC dreck was supposed to provide depth so that Darin Harris didn't need to redshirt. Will Dissly was supposed to spend 3 years in the weight room before hitting the two deeps. It's all just recruiting cliché bullshit. Forgive me for preferring @Dennis_DeYoung's model of basically saying this guys is really good, this guy has a chance, or this guys sucks.
No single recruit is going to kill the program, but "depth guys" (ie guys that can't play a high Pac 12 level) add up. Even Alabama and Ohio State have some of those guys, but I think it's FS to take those guys just to take them. If these guys can't play, it does hurt because it's two less guys to take this year that could possibly make an actual impact.
I agree with your post but a legit question on the bolded part: what are the thresholds for which to measure Little this season (if he plays)? What kind of production would be "really good" versus " a chance" versus "sucks"? And I'm not forcing you to pick now, just sometime before the season starts.
Let me help out here: this guy sucks.
I've had a few guys I was sure were horrible and this guy is one of them.
Andrew Kirkland, Taylor "he's a long snapper, tho!!" Hindy and Blake Rodgers were recent guys I felt sure were awful.
I've never seen a WRs film suck as bad as this guy. Even DaJuan Hawkins' was better.
Also, the QB is terrible.
The only sense this makes is the possibility that their game film is weird because of the JC-level and it's hard to read.
Pete should know what he's doing, though, so I'm just completely confused.
What is the fun in that? We might as well cancel this bored if we just "trust the coaches" and wait to see in 2 years. There would be nothing to discuss, it would just be a big doogman circle jerk like when Sark was around and no negative comments were allowed.
All us nerds and TBS'ers are doing on here are saying if we think a kid is good or not right now.
I was actually struggling recently because I felt like I hadn't been critical of a Peterman commit in awhile. There were always around 10 Sark players that I just didn't like at all in each of his classes, so far with Peterman in his 2+ classes I believe I can name about 10 guys that I just didn't think were that good. Hopefully that will translate to the field when these guys are a couple years into the program.
Good points...I guess I'm trying to say that I can see why the coaches took them especially since both are two year guys and generally give them the benefit of the doubt.
But they could easily suck, as has happened plenty of times before over the years.
I agree, it is confusing because they don't jump out on film and nobody else from the Pac-12 offered them.
But, people were saying the same thing about Dissly and that he was a reach / depth guy but then he made a few plays as a true frosh (that goal-line stop on 4th down @ Cal was awesome)...now he's looking like he'll be the #1 guy at Andrew Hudson's old spot.
From this staff's track record at BSU and what we've seen so far from their 2014 class, these guys know how to recruit and aren't star f*ckers like Sark and Neu are. Can't we trust the staff that these guys will add value for 2 years, at least until the evidence on the Pac-12 field says otherwise?
Regardless, it will be interesting to see what happens because a few on here are saying these guys suck and the staff is implicitly saying they don't so who will be right?
It sounds like you thought I was saying these depth guys (with slight chances of ever being starters) are the difference between 12-0 and 10-2 but I didn't say that.
Still, this coaching staff must have seen something in them right? They are both JC guys so if they can't break the two deeps in the next year or two, it doesn't hurt as much because they move on rather than taking up scholarships two or three additional years (like some guys in the 2011 and 2012 classes). Plus since the new staff arrived, WR StringfellowFS left, QB Troy Williams transferred, WR Kendly Taylor transferred, WR John Ross hurt his knee and is out for 2015, and MilesFS is likely to leave too. That's 2 QBs and 3 WRs from the 2012 and 2013 recruiting classes so the depth problem is obviously there....or do you want to ignore it, throw a fit, and insist that the staff bombed the 2015 recruiting class by not bringing in 5 star talent that could've helped at QB and WR immediately?
Depth can sometimes be the difference between going 6-6 (give or take a win) and going 4-8. With Ross now sitting out the year and assuming Miles is a goner, WR and QB is where the Huskies have the youngest depth for 2015.
IMO, this is one of the biggest flaws in UW fan's thinking. I used to see it all the time on dawgman. And I'm not saying it about this kid. I know nothing about him.
We have sucked for so long that "depth guys" are celebrated. "This guy isn't great, but he'll provide depth so that the freshmen don't have to redshirt."
"Depth guys" should ideally be young guys with established older guys in front of them or older guys playing behind All conference/ AA types. Good teams have 2nd and 3rd stringers that could start on other PAC 12 teams, and not just on WSU or Colorado.
It's time to increase the standards now that we have a real coach. No more celebrating depth and Evan Hudson types.
So far, Petersen's recruiting has been pretty good, but we need difference makers, not guys brought in for depth. And this rant isn't to be taken at total face value or to bash Petersen. It's just a general rant. We all can see why Petersen wanted to bring in another body or two at WR and QB.
As I said before, we all know why Petersen would want a couple more bodies at QB and WR. We all recognize that the talent and depth at those positions is far from ideal.
My problem is every recruit that sucks can be poo poo'd and has for as long as I have followed recruiting. I get it, fans are optimists and don't want to criticize the kids. Taylor Hindy was a good pick up because we were think on the OL and missed out on the big guns. With a couple years of development, he could be a depth guy. Same for Fuivai, Dean, Turpin, Rodgers, Petty, etc. Jordan Murchison, Qwentin Freeman, and all the other JC dreck was supposed to provide depth so that Darin Harris didn't need to redshirt. Will Dissly was supposed to spend 3 years in the weight room before hitting the two deeps. It's all just recruiting cliché bullshit. Forgive me for preferring @Dennis_DeYoung's model of basically saying this guys is really good, this guy has a chance, or this guys sucks.
No single recruit is going to kill the program, but "depth guys" (ie guys that can't play a high Pac 12 level) add up. Even Alabama and Ohio State have some of those guys, but I think it's FS to take those guys just to take them. If these guys can't play, it does hurt because it's two less guys to take this year that could possibly make an actual impact.
I agree with your post but a legit question on the bolded part: what are the thresholds for which to measure Little this season (if he plays)? What kind of production would be "really good" versus " a chance" versus "sucks"? And I'm not forcing you to pick now, just sometime before the season starts.
Let me help out here: this guy sucks.
I've had a few guys I was sure were horrible and this guy is one of them.
Andrew Kirkland, Taylor "he's a long snapper, tho!!" Hindy and Blake Rodgers were recent guys I felt sure were awful.
I've never seen a WRs film suck as bad as this guy. Even DaJuan Hawkins' was better.
Also, the QB is terrible.
The only sense this makes is the possibility that their game film is weird because of the JC-level and it's hard to read.
Pete should know what he's doing, though, so I'm just completely confused.
What is the fun in that? We might as well cancel this bored if we just "trust the coaches" and wait to see in 2 years. There would be nothing to discuss, it would just be a big doogman circle jerk like when Sark was around and no negative comments were allowed.
All us nerds and TBS'ers are doing on here are saying if we think a kid is good or not right now.
I was actually struggling recently because I felt like I hadn't been critical of a Peterman commit in awhile. There were always around 10 Sark players that I just didn't like at all in each of his classes, so far with Peterman in his 2+ classes I believe I can name about 10 guys that I just didn't think were that good. Hopefully that will translate to the field when these guys are a couple years into the program.
I think the two year thing is what keeps me from jumping off a cliff about Little. I actually understand bringing in the QB, because going into a season with 3 scholarship QBs is dumb, especially if the goal is to RS Browning.
I also slightly understand the Little thing for about the same reason, we are so thin at WR it is ridiculous.
I've had a few guys I was sure were horrible and this guy is one of them.
Andrew Kirkland, Taylor "he's a long snapper, tho!!" Hindy and Blake Rodgers were recent guys I felt sure were awful.
I've never seen a WRs film suck as bad as this guy. Even DaJuan Hawkins' was better.
Also, the QB is terrible.
The only sense this makes is the possibility that their game film is weird because of the JC-level and it's hard to read.
Pete should know what he's doing, though, so I'm just completely confused.
The film was also last updated from September 2013, right before Sark's annual 3 game losing streak. The game film isn't impressive, but it's almost 2 years old now (21 months), so there'll obviously be some improvement since then. The other thing is Petersen and the other coaches met him while running the camp at Golden West, so they saw him in person before extending a scholarship. If he was playing at the same level as his game film, then I don't think Petersen would've offered. I think Petersen saw something more of Little when they met in person.
Like I've said previously, I don't think he'll make an immediate impact this year, but he'll be more ready to play than some of the incoming freshmen, either a 6th or 7th option if he plays this year, meaning we can redshirt some of the 160 lbs kids we have coming in.
The other thing is that he has 3 years to play 2, so he could redshirt this year and contribute down the road after a couple years with Socha (idk if they could apply the redshirt to his sophomore year). Again, going back to the film, he wasn't at a level to compete in the Pac-12 then, but maybe by 2016 or 2017, he'll be our 4th best WR.
It sounds like you thought I was saying these depth guys (with slight chances of ever being starters) are the difference between 12-0 and 10-2 but I didn't say that.
Still, this coaching staff must have seen something in them right? They are both JC guys so if they can't break the two deeps in the next year or two, it doesn't hurt as much because they move on rather than taking up scholarships two or three additional years (like some guys in the 2011 and 2012 classes). Plus since the new staff arrived, WR StringfellowFS left, QB Troy Williams transferred, WR Kendly Taylor transferred, WR John Ross hurt his knee and is out for 2015, and MilesFS is likely to leave too. That's 2 QBs and 3 WRs from the 2012 and 2013 recruiting classes so the depth problem is obviously there....or do you want to ignore it, throw a fit, and insist that the staff bombed the 2015 recruiting class by not bringing in 5 star talent that could've helped at QB and WR immediately?
Depth can sometimes be the difference between going 6-6 (give or take a win) and going 4-8. With Ross now sitting out the year and assuming Miles is a goner, WR and QB is where the Huskies have the youngest depth for 2015.
IMO, this is one of the biggest flaws in UW fan's thinking. I used to see it all the time on dawgman. And I'm not saying it about this kid. I know nothing about him.
We have sucked for so long that "depth guys" are celebrated. "This guy isn't great, but he'll provide depth so that the freshmen don't have to redshirt."
"Depth guys" should ideally be young guys with established older guys in front of them or older guys playing behind All conference/ AA types. Good teams have 2nd and 3rd stringers that could start on other PAC 12 teams, and not just on WSU or Colorado.
It's time to increase the standards now that we have a real coach. No more celebrating depth and Evan Hudson types.
So far, Petersen's recruiting has been pretty good, but we need difference makers, not guys brought in for depth. And this rant isn't to be taken at total face value or to bash Petersen. It's just a general rant. We all can see why Petersen wanted to bring in another body or two at WR and QB.
As I said before, we all know why Petersen would want a couple more bodies at QB and WR. We all recognize that the talent and depth at those positions is far from ideal.
My problem is every recruit that sucks can be poo poo'd and has for as long as I have followed recruiting. I get it, fans are optimists and don't want to criticize the kids. Taylor Hindy was a good pick up because we were think on the OL and missed out on the big guns. With a couple years of development, he could be a depth guy. Same for Fuivai, Dean, Turpin, Rodgers, Petty, etc. Jordan Murchison, Qwentin Freeman, and all the other JC dreck was supposed to provide depth so that Darin Harris didn't need to redshirt. Will Dissly was supposed to spend 3 years in the weight room before hitting the two deeps. It's all just recruiting cliché bullshit. Forgive me for preferring @Dennis_DeYoung's model of basically saying this guys is really good, this guy has a chance, or this guys sucks.
No single recruit is going to kill the program, but "depth guys" (ie guys that can't play a high Pac 12 level) add up. Even Alabama and Ohio State have some of those guys, but I think it's FS to take those guys just to take them. If these guys can't play, it does hurt because it's two less guys to take this year that could possibly make an actual impact.
I agree with your post but a legit question on the bolded part: what are the thresholds for which to measure Little this season (if he plays)? What kind of production would be "really good" versus " a chance" versus "sucks"? And I'm not forcing you to pick now, just sometime before the season starts.
I would say if he makes a handful of impact plays over the next two years, he was worth the scholly. That's a tough question though and really depends on the criteria.
Marvin Hall has made a couple plays in his career, but he hasn't been a worthy PAC 12 player either. DeAndre Campbell and Hartvigson would be other examples. Someone could make the argument they belonged, but ultimately they aren't winning players.
Not everyone can be a star, but it sure would be nice to have enough talent so that desperation guys like Little aren't happening.
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But they could easily suck, as has happened plenty of times before over the years.
I also slightly understand the Little thing for about the same reason, we are so thin at WR it is ridiculous.
Like I've said previously, I don't think he'll make an immediate impact this year, but he'll be more ready to play than some of the incoming freshmen, either a 6th or 7th option if he plays this year, meaning we can redshirt some of the 160 lbs kids we have coming in.
The other thing is that he has 3 years to play 2, so he could redshirt this year and contribute down the road after a couple years with Socha (idk if they could apply the redshirt to his sophomore year). Again, going back to the film, he wasn't at a level to compete in the Pac-12 then, but maybe by 2016 or 2017, he'll be our 4th best WR.
Marvin Hall has made a couple plays in his career, but he hasn't been a worthy PAC 12 player either. DeAndre Campbell and Hartvigson would be other examples. Someone could make the argument they belonged, but ultimately they aren't winning players.
Not everyone can be a star, but it sure would be nice to have enough talent so that desperation guys like Little aren't happening.