Tequilla's Thoughts - Final Four Oppression
My eyes are better than those on the Committee and TCU is one of the Top 4 teams in the Country ... but whatever on that.
Alabama and Oregon belong. Florida State didn't lost and played 3 legit P5 teams in the non-conference plus the 8 games in their conference plus a title game. They belong. You have 3 teams going for 1 spot in Ohio, Baylor, and TCU.
I've rehashed most of this already so no reason to go into a TL, DR explanation. Ohio has the worst loss of the 3 and the only one of the 3 to lose at home. The Big 12 was a better conference than the Big 10 (although both are behind the SEC, PAC, and ACC). Anybody that needs help understanding that should look at a winless Big 12 team in Iowa State winning on the road at Iowa. TCU vs. Baylor is a little more tricky because of the H2H aspect. TCU IMO was the better team throughout the course of the year but they weren't for 10 minutes of game play and it cost them. The lesson as always is win all of your games and take the decision out of the hands of others.
A couple of things that I really think that are quite amusing to me:
1) TCU was ranked either 3rd or 4th last week based on their body of work. For them to fall 2 or 3 spots after beating a conference opponent by over 50 points is downright laughable. If you think that they are the 6th best team in the nation that's fine and if you can support that opinion then so be it. But if they were the 3rd or 4th best team last week, there hasn't been that much change over the last week to support that change IMO.
2) There was an argument used that stated that the 13th game for Ohio was a massive differentiator between them and the 2 Big 12 teams. The 13th game for Ohio gave them 9 games against their conference (8 regular season + 1 in the conference title game). The Big 12 teams play 9 conference games. Both Ohio and TCU played P5 teams in the OOC schedule. So basically what they are saying is that Ohio's games against either Cincy or Navy are the games that made the difference.
A couple of random thoughts in my head:
1) TCU has a lot to reconsider regarding their annual rivalry game with SMU as long as SMU is a joke. Today's results make it crystal clear that TCU will have to take any doubt away with their resume whether that be with the SMU game or the D2 game that just about everybody is playing today.
2) Much like how the PAC is perceived to be down when USC isn't at the top, same is true in the Big 12 when Texas and Oklahoma are down.
3) Does the voting go the same way if one of TCU or Baylor was replaced by Oklahoma or Texas?
4) Would TCU or Baylor have been better off and in the Top 4 if they were a clear cut conference champion instead of co-champions?
5) I expect that the Big 12 will be expanding by 2 teams and/or petitioning for a Conference Championship game between its top 2 teams
In the end, it's on TCU for blowing a 21 point lead with 10 minutes to go. Nobody to really blame but themselves for it. That being said, it's a very bitter pill to swallow that when your body of work has your only loss was on the road to a Top 5 team by a FG on the last play of the game and that that was the only time in that game that you trailed.
Comments
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A more compelling argument:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/ -
tOSU sells tickets at a higher rate than TCU and Baylor combined.
End of discussion -
I thought they'd go with baylor. Big 12 is better than the Big ten and Baylor beat TCU.
A bit surprised by the inclusion of Ohio State, and I think their brand did have something to do with it. -
TL, DR.Tequilla said:As I said last night, not hard to see this coming. Ohio gave the Committee an easy out on the TCU vs. Baylor debate.
My eyes are better than those on the Committee and TCU is one of the Top 4 teams in the Country ... but whatever on that.
Alabama and Oregon belong. Florida State didn't lost and played 3 legit P5 teams in the non-conference plus the 8 games in their conference plus a title game. They belong. You have 3 teams going for 1 spot in Ohio, Baylor, and TCU.
I've rehashed most of this already so no reason to go into a TL, DR explanation. Ohio has the worst loss of the 3 and the only one of the 3 to lose at home. The Big 12 was a better conference than the Big 10 (although both are behind the SEC, PAC, and ACC). Anybody that needs help understanding that should look at a winless Big 12 team in Iowa State winning on the road at Iowa. TCU vs. Baylor is a little more tricky because of the H2H aspect. TCU IMO was the better team throughout the course of the year but they weren't for 10 minutes of game play and it cost them. The lesson as always is win all of your games and take the decision out of the hands of others.
A couple of things that I really think that are quite amusing to me:
1) TCU was ranked either 3rd or 4th last week based on their body of work. For them to fall 2 or 3 spots after beating a conference opponent by over 50 points is downright laughable. If you think that they are the 6th best team in the nation that's fine and if you can support that opinion then so be it. But if they were the 3rd or 4th best team last week, there hasn't been that much change over the last week to support that change IMO.
2) There was an argument used that stated that the 13th game for Ohio was a massive differentiator between them and the 2 Big 12 teams. The 13th game for Ohio gave them 9 games against their conference (8 regular season + 1 in the conference title game). The Big 12 teams play 9 conference games. Both Ohio and TCU played P5 teams in the OOC schedule. So basically what they are saying is that Ohio's games against either Cincy or Navy are the games that made the difference.
A couple of random thoughts in my head:
1) TCU has a lot to reconsider regarding their annual rivalry game with SMU as long as SMU is a joke. Today's results make it crystal clear that TCU will have to take any doubt away with their resume whether that be with the SMU game or the D2 game that just about everybody is playing today.
2) Much like how the PAC is perceived to be down when USC isn't at the top, same is true in the Big 12 when Texas and Oklahoma are down.
3) Does the voting go the same way if one of TCU or Baylor was replaced by Oklahoma or Texas?
4) Would TCU or Baylor have been better off and in the Top 4 if they were a clear cut conference champion instead of co-champions?
5) I expect that the Big 12 will be expanding by 2 teams and/or petitioning for a Conference Championship game between its top 2 teams
In the end, it's on TCU for blowing a 21 point lead with 10 minutes to go. Nobody to really blame but themselves for it. That being said, it's a very bitter pill to swallow that when your body of work has your only loss was on the road to a Top 5 team by a FG on the last play of the game and that that was the only time in that game that you trailed.
Agree. -
Tequilla -
I hope that TCU never abandons the SMU game. SMU sucks now, but they have cash and there is some willingness among the alumni to support a winner there. Part of what killed TCU and Baylor is the fan support map I keep linking on the bored. If TCU/SMU can generate some local interest as a real rivalry, I think you will see TCU expand its fan support, which will help it in the long run.
Big problem for the XII is that there aren't good regional candidates out there for teams 11 and 12. Cincy? Tulane? Memphis? Colorado State? Arkansas or LSU would be great natural fits but neither will ever leave the SEC so long as the TV contracts remain as they are.
The Big XII already has about one more private school than it needs. -
I think TCU belonged in the top 4. With a limited sample it isn't about identifying just who won games. It is about identifying the best teams, and to do that you look at how each team won (and lost) and who they played. TCU lost by 3 at the gun against a good team on the road. The other 2 lost by 2 TDs when they lost. TCU won by more when they won.
FSU I would have no trouble leaving out as well. Spare me the defending champs and winning streak. Irrelevant. Played a large number of average to above average teams. Played all of them close and needed a ton of luck to continue winning. The only "good" team they played was Georgia Tech. I think they lose 2 games if they played in SEC/B12/P12.
OSU... losing to Va Tech. LOL. Needing OT against terrible Penn State. Did have a decent non-con win over Cincy which won the new Big East. OSU vs. FSU is close, I guess I would go with the unbeaten who also played 3 decent non-con teams (Ok St, Fla, ND), but OSU sure looked better on Saturday night than FSU.
Fuck Baylor. You put up a statue of RG3 and play 3 shit teams non-con, you fucking suck and deserve no sympathy. -
I don't get the FSU disrespect. They're undefeated and by today's low standards, played a good OOC schedule.
TCU has a case but the whole debate is annoying and tedious. IDGAF. Also people need to stop asking the Big 12 to play a championship. They all play each other. There's no point. STFU Brian Greasehead. -
Fuck Baylor because a nuke could be dropped in Waco and I'd have the same thoughts I have about a nuke being dropped in Eugene. But enough said about that.
Building your program and brand takes time - Oregon should know that. It's doubly difficult in a state with such allegiances already in place with Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and all the transplants that live in Dallas in general.
That being said, the growth in the TCU program from a following and awareness base is improving. The remodeled stadium is extremely nice and the facilities as a whole are there. I'm amazed that there are TCU watching parties in places like Seattle and Portland ... I honestly never thought I'd see stuff like that. When I first got to TCU, the MBA tailgate was right outside the entrance to the stadium and we used to walk in/out to get beer from the keg at the tailgate. The stadium was about 1/3 full and the student section about the same. Today, the stadium is almost entirely full each week and the student section is probably one of the better ones in the country.
You're right about the size of the school and the alumni base. I love it because I'm sure I'll be getting an email in the next 12-24 hours offering me tickets to the Peach Bowl game against Ole Miss. I'm debating whether or not to make the trip and then heading from Atlanta to Phoenix for the Cactus Bowl. But your point is fair in that the numbers just don't add up for a school like TCU versus an entire state like Ohio. -
SMU-TCU could end up being a great "derby" style game if both teams get good.
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The big 10 is a joke. They didn't have a single win over a power 5 ooc opponent if I remember right. That's hard to do as a conference.
If Ohio st was Iowa this never would have happened. But they're not and a good Ohio state team does not get left out. If tcu were Texas or Oklahoma there is not a chance in hell they would have been overpasses. Same for Baylor.
All that being said you could make a case for each team and each team can blame themselves. -
AtomicDawg said:
The big 10 is a joke. They didn't have a single win over a power 5 ooc opponent if I remember right. That's hard to do as a conference.
You're half right.
Rutgers beat WSU. -
Don't get me wrong, the game means a lot to both of the alumni bases and I would agree that it's worth continuing.AZDuck said:SMU-TCU could end up being a great "derby" style game if both teams get good.
To me, anybody that brings up TCU's decision to play SMU as a sign of them taking the easy way out isn't paying attention. TCU's played them annually for as long as you can go back and look (when SMU fielded a team that is).
That being said, if TCU is going to get penalized for playing too easy of a schedule (they played 10 P5 teams), then the SMU game is one of the two games that they need to revisit. -
One thing I forgot to put in my original post, I wonder if Ohio will try to find a way to get out of their home/home series against TCU in the next 4-5 years.
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'Boobs told me it's nothing but blatant Redskin bias.Fire_Marshall_Bill said:I don't get the FSU disrespect. They're undefeated and by today's low standards, played a good OOC schedule.
TCU has a case but the whole debate is annoying and tedious. IDGAF. Also people need to stop asking the Big 12 to play a championship. They all play each other. There's no point. STFU Brian Greasehead. -
Indiana is the SEC East champ over MizzouAtomicDawg said:The big 10 is a joke. They didn't have a single win over a power 5 ooc opponent if I remember right. That's hard to do as a conference.
If Ohio st was Iowa this never would have happened. But they're not and a good Ohio state team does not get left out. If tcu were Texas or Oklahoma there is not a chance in hell they would have been overpasses. Same for Baylor.
All that being said you could make a case for each team and each team can blame themselves. -
TCU needs to revisit the Samford gameTequilla said:
Don't get me wrong, the game means a lot to both of the alumni bases and I would agree that it's worth continuing.AZDuck said:SMU-TCU could end up being a great "derby" style game if both teams get good.
To me, anybody that brings up TCU's decision to play SMU as a sign of them taking the easy way out isn't paying attention. TCU's played them annually for as long as you can go back and look (when SMU fielded a team that is).
That being said, if TCU is going to get penalized for playing too easy of a schedule (they played 10 P5 teams), then the SMU game is one of the two games that they need to revisit. -
Baylor's OOC schedule meant that there was no way they were getting in unless there were no other options. And due to the TCU H2H result, TCU was out as a result. Baylor needs to nut up and play someone. The only P5 opponent they have scheduled is Duke. Starting in 2017.
Oklahoma losing helped, too. Both TCU and Baylor's overall resume was hurt with OU dropping out of the top 25.
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Good call.AZDuck said:
Indiana is the SEC East champ over MizzouAtomicDawg said:The big 10 is a joke. They didn't have a single win over a power 5 ooc opponent if I remember right. That's hard to do as a conference.
If Ohio st was Iowa this never would have happened. But they're not and a good Ohio state team does not get left out. If tcu were Texas or Oklahoma there is not a chance in hell they would have been overpasses. Same for Baylor.
All that being said you could make a case for each team and each team can blame themselves. -
The Big 12 is also horrible. It's all splitting hairs. You can make a case for each team. IMO, the committee got it right.AtomicDawg said:The big 10 is a joke. They didn't have a single win over a power 5 ooc opponent if I remember right. That's hard to do as a conference.
If Ohio st was Iowa this never would have happened. But they're not and a good Ohio state team does not get left out. If tcu were Texas or Oklahoma there is not a chance in hell they would have been overpasses. Same for Baylor.
All that being said you could make a case for each team and each team can blame themselves. -
If your opinion coincides with Butler Cabin's opinion (allegedly), then at minimum 81% of the time you should reconsider your opinion.RoadDawg55 said:
The Big 12 is also horrible. It's all splitting hairs. You can make a case for each team. IMO, the committee got it right.AtomicDawg said:The big 10 is a joke. They didn't have a single win over a power 5 ooc opponent if I remember right. That's hard to do as a conference.
If Ohio st was Iowa this never would have happened. But they're not and a good Ohio state team does not get left out. If tcu were Texas or Oklahoma there is not a chance in hell they would have been overpasses. Same for Baylor.
All that being said you could make a case for each team and each team can blame themselves. -
Beat Minnesota convincingly. Nothing else matters.RoadDawg55 said:
The Big 12 is also horrible. It's all splitting hairs. You can make a case for each team. IMO, the committee got it right.AtomicDawg said:The big 10 is a joke. They didn't have a single win over a power 5 ooc opponent if I remember right. That's hard to do as a conference.
If Ohio st was Iowa this never would have happened. But they're not and a good Ohio state team does not get left out. If tcu were Texas or Oklahoma there is not a chance in hell they would have been overpasses. Same for Baylor.
All that being said you could make a case for each team and each team can blame themselves. -
Look in the official playoff thread. I paint a picture with facts. Texas- worst season since 2010. Before that, 1997. Oklahoma- Worst season since 2009. OK State- worst season since 2007. Iowa State has gone from a team capable of upsets to total disaster. Texas Tech has gone from above average to horrible. No standout non conference wins. It's not a good conference this year.Tequilla said:
If your opinion coincides with Butler Cabin's opinion (allegedly), then at minimum 81% of the time you should reconsider your opinion.RoadDawg55 said:
The Big 12 is also horrible. It's all splitting hairs. You can make a case for each team. IMO, the committee got it right.AtomicDawg said:The big 10 is a joke. They didn't have a single win over a power 5 ooc opponent if I remember right. That's hard to do as a conference.
If Ohio st was Iowa this never would have happened. But they're not and a good Ohio state team does not get left out. If tcu were Texas or Oklahoma there is not a chance in hell they would have been overpasses. Same for Baylor.
All that being said you could make a case for each team and each team can blame themselves. -
In the next 5 years, TCU has home/home series against Arkansas (AD Jeff Long) and Ohio ... fucking take the plunger to both of them.
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Oklahoma: Lost to TCU and Baylor (two teams better than them); lost to KState because they couldn't make a fucking kick; gifted the game to Okie LiteRoadDawg55 said:
Look in the official playoff thread. I paint a picture with facts. Texas- worst season since 2010. Before that, 1997. Oklahoma- Worst season since 2009. OK State- worst season since 2007. Iowa State has gone from a team capable of upsets to total disaster. Texas Tech has gone from above average to horrible. No standout non conference wins. It's not a good conference this year.Tequilla said:
If your opinion coincides with Butler Cabin's opinion (allegedly), then at minimum 81% of the time you should reconsider your opinion.RoadDawg55 said:
The Big 12 is also horrible. It's all splitting hairs. You can make a case for each team. IMO, the committee got it right.AtomicDawg said:The big 10 is a joke. They didn't have a single win over a power 5 ooc opponent if I remember right. That's hard to do as a conference.
If Ohio st was Iowa this never would have happened. But they're not and a good Ohio state team does not get left out. If tcu were Texas or Oklahoma there is not a chance in hell they would have been overpasses. Same for Baylor.
All that being said you could make a case for each team and each team can blame themselves.
Texas: Losses to BYU early in the year (no QB), UCLA, Baylor, Oklahoma, KState, and TCU. All 4 Big12 teams were better than them.
Okie Lite: Had massive QB issues the 2nd half of the year (losses to Florida St, West Virginia, TCU, KState, Texas, and Baylor - again, probably each of these teams better than them).
The problem when you play everybody like the Big12 did this year, the losses pile up. It's not like with the Big 10 where each division has 2-3 good teams and everybody else is mostly dreck. The closest is the SEC West or the PAC - but in both of those cases losing to each other is cited as a sign of how good the conference is.
On top of all of that, who claimed that it was a superior conference this year? I stated it was the 4th of the 5 power conferences. But the 5th conference was the Big 10. It's amazing how everybody seems to forget what was being said about that conference for 2/3 of the year this year. It's amazing how everybody seems to forget why TCU was rated higher than Ohio for the last half of the year. It's amazing how everybody seems to forget the struggles that Ohio has had against dreckfest Big10 teams. And it's amazing how everybody forgets all of that and adopts the narrative about how impressive Ohio's win last night was (and it was) and using that as justification to punt on the Big 12, the TCU vs. Baylor debate, and to get the bigger $$$ draw.
All of the arguments are bullshit. TCU and Baylor lack the $$$ of Ohio. Big10 >>> Big12 when it comes to money. All of the other reasons are just fucking bullshit fluff to the $$$ factor. -
The only reason you are spinning it Tequilla is because you are a TCU fan.
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Tequilla, I know you mean Ohio "State" not Ohio but can you please add that. It's annoying.
TIA. -
Spinning what?RoadDawg55 said:The only reason you are spinning it Tequilla is because you are a TCU fan.
If Baylor was 4th ahead of TCU - I wouldn't have liked it but they won the game head to head and if that was what separated the teams, then it's hard to argue that.
The Big 10 is mediocre at best. Ohio's been mediocre most of the year. They have the worst loss. They are the only one of those teams to win at home.
The Big12 doesn't have a conference title game because they aren't allowed to with 10 teams. I'm sure that they'll go forward and ask for a waiver to match up #1 and #2 to get that all important 13th game. The NCAA would kind of look stupid now to decline the waiver - don't you think? Or does the Big 12 need to go add 2 BS teams so that for appearance sake their conference looks that much more TUFF when in reality adding those 2 teams waters down the leagues, creates unequal scheduling, and probably reduces the overall SoS?
From what I saw this year, TCU was a better team than Baylor and Ohio. The loss to Baylor was troubling in the #script. I think both Baylor and TCU are better teams than Ohio over the course of the season. Ohio's probably playing better football than Baylor right now - not sure they are playing better than TCU.
All of this shit is all about following the money. Anybody trying to rationalize this shit any other way is completely missing the mark. If one of TCU or Baylor was Texas or Oklahoma it doesn't go down this way. If the Big 10 team wasn't Ohio, Michigan, or Penn State, it probably doesn't go down this way.
Ohio lost at home to VaTech. Needed 2 OT to beat a 6-6 Penn St team that was 2-6 in a shitty conference. They beat Minnesota by 7 (TCU beat them by 30). They struggled to beat both Indiana and Michigan. But one great game against Wisconsin and we're going to go crown their ass?
Even the teams that you were talking about being so down this year in the Big12 showed out against teams in the Final Four as Okie Lite played Florida State tough and West Virginia also played Alabama tight as well.
It's impossible to make compelling arguments for Ohio that don't belong with the money, prestige, and power of the Big10 and Ohio. -
Those that hate the school in Columbus tend to not give them the credit by giving them their preferred "the" or the State in their name.cesarchavezdawg said:Tequilla, I know you mean Ohio "State" not Ohio but can you please add that. It's annoying.
TIA.
As someone whose family came from Michigan and roots for the Michigan schools to do well more often than not, you've got a better chance today of me saying that TCU isn't one of the 4 best teams in the country than putting the State after the Ohio. -
If Baylor was named Oklahoma or Texas I think they would have been in over Ohio st.RoadDawg55 said:The only reason you are spinning it Tequilla is because you are a TCU fan.
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Ohio University objects to thisTequilla said:
Those that hate the school in Columbus tend to not give them the credit by giving them their preferred "the" or the State in their name.cesarchavezdawg said:Tequilla, I know you mean Ohio "State" not Ohio but can you please add that. It's annoying.
TIA.
As someone whose family came from Michigan and roots for the Michigan schools to do well more often than not, you've got a better chance today of me saying that TCU isn't one of the 4 best teams in the country than putting the State after the Ohio.
