When you are dealing from such a profoundly weak position, you gotta overpay…when the priorities appear to be “controllable years” and “sustainable”…they are fucked, and I’m here for it. Over-under for a Julio opt-out is…5
When you are dealing from such a profoundly weak position, you gotta overpay…when the priorities appear to be “controllable years” and “sustainable”…they are fucked, and I’m here for it. Over-under for a Julio opt-out is…5
The only way this works out is if Dipoto can work some magic and make a couple of great adds on the cheap. I don't know who those guys are. Bellinger definitely isn't in the picture. They need some AJ Pollack/Colten Wong type guys to come through with huge seasons. Otherwise this whole thing dies with a whimper.
What if the M's traded Castillo? They could get a very good controllable bat (OF or 3B) and a #4 starter in return, maybe a pretty good AA pitching prospect.
That would then free up around $10 million (assuming the bat and starter cost about $14 million), which they could then spend on a DH.
What if the M's traded Castillo? They could get a very good controllable bat (OF or 3B) and a #4 starter in return, maybe a pretty good AA pitching prospect.
That would then free up around $10 million (assuming the bat and starter cost about $14 million), which they could then spend on a DH.
Yeah I considered that kind of move too. Would suck to have to do that but better than doing nothing.
What if the M's traded Castillo? They could get a very good controllable bat (OF or 3B) and a #4 starter in return, maybe a pretty good AA pitching prospect.
That would then free up around $10 million (assuming the bat and starter cost about $14 million), which they could then spend on a DH.
Yeah I considered that kind of move too. Would suck to have to do that but better than doing nothing.
For me, if that is the move, they might as well do nothing. WS teams don't trade an ace for "depth", they trade them for a perennial All Star bat, and a top-of-the-line prospect(s)...
Unfortunately, perennial All Star bats are often on their 2nd contract, and usually have no-trade clauses, and as has been well-documented, hitters don't want to play in Seattle. It reminds me of when they traded Randy Johnson...they got 3 very serviceable big leaguers who had solid careers, and RJ won a WS, several Cy's...the M's didn't want to pay a shitload of $$$ for a guy with a questionable back, and Randy wanted out. They got a "good" haul for him, but all anyone talks about is how Woodward got fleeced. His hand was forced.
They will never get close to equal value for Castillo, so I imagine it will happen soon..."Controllable"...They had three of the best hitters in the game in the 90's, and were short on pitching. Now they have the pitching but need bats, and no one wants to come here..."Sustainable, controllable" = mediocre...same as it ever was...
Yeah, they are probably waiting for other chips to fall so that other teams use up more of their budget (Bellinger, Chapman, and Snell for instance) so that they can drive a harder bargain (Soler, Pham, Joc Pederson, etc etc) for those who remain.
I still think they should deal one of the young arms for a controllable bat since they have a need for at least 2 bats (at a corner OF spot and DH....if Urias sticks at 3B for a year). Robbie Ray will come back in July or August and they could plug a spot with James Paxton, Alex Wood, or Clevinger on a 1 year deal with a club option for a 2nd year.
I think my strategy now is to not trade any pitching. If you trade one you have to go get one. The only one they can trade that would make any kind of fiscal sense would be Castillo since that possibly frees up enough money to get another pitcher or two in addition to whatever salaries came back as part of the trade.
I don't fucking know. I'm pretty much in burn it down mode at this point. There's a way to put a contender on the field for peanuts the way the seem to want to, but it can't be done with half measures. If they want to go young and controllable and sustainable they might as well commit to it and that means dealing big contracts in exchange for those controllable players. Castillo is the biggest contract they have left that is moveable.
Should have never torn down the Kingdome. The owners suck, but Safeco (or whatever it's called now) really screwed up the ability to recruit/keep bats here.
Billy Beane showed that you can compete with spare parts, but if you don't win the last game, does it really matter? He had Zito, Hudson and Mulder (all three in the draft), and without them they lose 100 with that lineup. They didn't talk about that in the movie. Oakland is (was) a graveyard for hitters, if they even had enough money to try to sign guys.
Billy became a legend, because he could field a winning club with a tiny payroll. It seems as if Stanton wants to do the same, with the same results...nonatty gif. It's like going to the casino...there is a chance to win big, you hope to at least break even, but the reality is that you won't.
This is (was) the year for the M's...they scraped and saved, pinched pennies for years, "club-friendly contracts" (throw that in with "controllable", "sustainable", and "54%"), the door is open, and they walked away and took a dump...
I'm as down on the M's as I've ever been right now...They have done everything to position themselves for this, painstakingly, over years/decades. the bride is in the honeymoon suite and ready to go, and they can't get it up and finish the job...fuck 'em...
How much salary did the M's dump? Was Gonzales $12.5 million, Geno $11 million, and Evan White $7 million? Let's say I'm off and it was only $28 million.
The M's could plug at least one hole by trading for Max Kepler (due $10 mil in 2024 for age 31 season) and maybe even Jorge Polanco (due $10.5 million in 2024 for his age 30 season and $12 million team option for 2025).
$20.5 million could get 120-130 games from Kepler as a mildly plus fielder in RF and Polanco as a plus defender at 2B (can spell Crawford at SS too). Rojas and Urias could platoon at 3B while Ryan Bliss develops at 2B in AAA in case Polanco gets hurt.
M's wouldn't have to give up a top pitching prospect or top position prospect since it is a salary dump for the Twins. They might have to give a better position prospect if they want Minnesota to send along $3 to $5 million.
The M's could then spend the remaining $9.5 million of the freed-up $28 million by trading for Eloy Jimenez to be a thumper at DH. He's due $13.88 million in 2024 for his age 27 season and has a $3 million buyout for 2025 (or $16.5 million team option). Sox could send along $3 million and Jimenez for a pretty good M's prospect. Someone like OF Aidan Smith should get it done.
Otherwise, they can try to sign Jorge Soler to a 3 year, $45 million deal and try to back-load it so that they only pay him $11 or $12 million in 2024.
Short term contracts left on Kepler, Polanco, and Jimenez should appeal to ownership to plug some holes while allowing for more seasoning time to prospects (OF Clase, 3B/1B Locklear, SS/2B Bliss) and holding onto the pitching. Dylan Moore could then spell Kepler against LHP in RF and same for Canzano in RF while the other OF could be Marlowe or Trammell (still have hope for him).
How much salary did the M's dump? Was Gonzales $12.5 million, Geno $11 million, and Evan White $7 million? Let's say I'm off and it was only $28 million.
The M's could plug at least one hole by trading for Max Kepler (due $10 mil in 2024 for age 31 season) and maybe even Jorge Polanco (due $10.5 million in 2024 for his age 30 season and $12 million team option for 2025).
$20.5 million could get 120-130 games from Kepler as a mildly plus fielder in RF and Polanco as a plus defender at 2B (can spell Crawford at SS too). Rojas and Urias could platoon at 3B while Ryan Bliss develops at 2B in AAA in case Polanco gets hurt.
M's wouldn't have to give up a top pitching prospect or top position prospect since it is a salary dump for the Twins. They might have to give a better position prospect if they want Minnesota to send along $3 to $5 million.
The M's could then spend the remaining $9.5 million of the freed-up $28 million by trading for Eloy Jimenez to be a thumper at DH. He's due $13.88 million in 2024 for his age 27 season and has a $3 million buyout for 2025 (or $16.5 million team option). Sox could send along $3 million and Jimenez for a pretty good M's prospect. Someone like OF Aidan Smith should get it done.
Otherwise, they can try to sign Jorge Soler to a 3 year, $45 million deal and try to back-load it so that they only pay him $11 or $12 million in 2024.
Short term contracts left on Kepler, Polanco, and Jimenez should appeal to ownership to plug some holes while allowing for more seasoning time to prospects (OF Clase, 3B/1B Locklear, SS/2B Bliss) and holding onto the pitching. Dylan Moore could then spell Kepler against LHP in RF and same for Canzano in RF while the other OF could be Marlowe or Trammell (still have hope for him).
I like this plan. It's not enough, but it's a better effort than I expect out of them.
How much salary did the M's dump? Was Gonzales $12.5 million, Geno $11 million, and Evan White $7 million? Let's say I'm off and it was only $28 million.
The M's could plug at least one hole by trading for Max Kepler (due $10 mil in 2024 for age 31 season) and maybe even Jorge Polanco (due $10.5 million in 2024 for his age 30 season and $12 million team option for 2025).
$20.5 million could get 120-130 games from Kepler as a mildly plus fielder in RF and Polanco as a plus defender at 2B (can spell Crawford at SS too). Rojas and Urias could platoon at 3B while Ryan Bliss develops at 2B in AAA in case Polanco gets hurt.
M's wouldn't have to give up a top pitching prospect or top position prospect since it is a salary dump for the Twins. They might have to give a better position prospect if they want Minnesota to send along $3 to $5 million.
The M's could then spend the remaining $9.5 million of the freed-up $28 million by trading for Eloy Jimenez to be a thumper at DH. He's due $13.88 million in 2024 for his age 27 season and has a $3 million buyout for 2025 (or $16.5 million team option). Sox could send along $3 million and Jimenez for a pretty good M's prospect. Someone like OF Aidan Smith should get it done.
Otherwise, they can try to sign Jorge Soler to a 3 year, $45 million deal and try to back-load it so that they only pay him $11 or $12 million in 2024.
Short term contracts left on Kepler, Polanco, and Jimenez should appeal to ownership to plug some holes while allowing for more seasoning time to prospects (OF Clase, 3B/1B Locklear, SS/2B Bliss) and holding onto the pitching. Dylan Moore could then spell Kepler against LHP in RF and same for Canzano in RF while the other OF could be Marlowe or Trammell (still have hope for him).
I like this plan. It's not enough, but it's a better effort than I expect out of them.
Thanks, they could always add a bat before the deadline if the pitching carries them and the hitting does well enough at the right times.
How much salary did the M's dump? Was Gonzales $12.5 million, Geno $11 million, and Evan White $7 million? Let's say I'm off and it was only $28 million.
The M's could plug at least one hole by trading for Max Kepler (due $10 mil in 2024 for age 31 season) and maybe even Jorge Polanco (due $10.5 million in 2024 for his age 30 season and $12 million team option for 2025).
$20.5 million could get 120-130 games from Kepler as a mildly plus fielder in RF and Polanco as a plus defender at 2B (can spell Crawford at SS too). Rojas and Urias could platoon at 3B while Ryan Bliss develops at 2B in AAA in case Polanco gets hurt.
M's wouldn't have to give up a top pitching prospect or top position prospect since it is a salary dump for the Twins. They might have to give a better position prospect if they want Minnesota to send along $3 to $5 million.
The M's could then spend the remaining $9.5 million of the freed-up $28 million by trading for Eloy Jimenez to be a thumper at DH. He's due $13.88 million in 2024 for his age 27 season and has a $3 million buyout for 2025 (or $16.5 million team option). Sox could send along $3 million and Jimenez for a pretty good M's prospect. Someone like OF Aidan Smith should get it done.
Otherwise, they can try to sign Jorge Soler to a 3 year, $45 million deal and try to back-load it so that they only pay him $11 or $12 million in 2024.
Short term contracts left on Kepler, Polanco, and Jimenez should appeal to ownership to plug some holes while allowing for more seasoning time to prospects (OF Clase, 3B/1B Locklear, SS/2B Bliss) and holding onto the pitching. Dylan Moore could then spell Kepler against LHP in RF and same for Canzano in RF while the other OF could be Marlowe or Trammell (still have hope for him).
I like this plan. It's not enough, but it's a better effort than I expect out of them.
Thanks, they could always add a bat before the deadline if the pitching carries them and the hitting does well enough at the right times.
Oh man I just noted that I missed the mention of Marlowe and Trammell. I might have taken a half or even full star from my rating had I seen that the first time. Abandon your hope for Trammell and instead hope that they aren't lame enough to keep teitting him out there and pretending he's still a prospect. Yikes man. Know when to give up.
Marlowe I actually liked but he was regressing with lightening speed when they sent him back down. I don't think he's an answer to anything either except in desperate times.
If they had a reasonable bench they would've made the playoffs. Trade middling prospects for a couple of solid bench guys and never suit up Trammell or Haggerty again!
I'm not sure I understand the Mitch Garver signing. Would he play just 10-20 games behind the plate and cost $12 million per year? Might as well spend a little more and get Jorge Soler at DH, no?
I'm not sure I understand the Mitch Garver signing. Would he play just 10-20 games behind the plate and cost $12 million per year? Might as well spend a little more and get Jorge Soler at DH, no?
He's a good DH too, but I'm not sure how he is that much better, 8 million better, than Tom Murphy. I guess the difference may be that they think Murphy is fubar health-wise.
I'd do that but ownership like France because he's cheap. How much more do they have to spend? Kepler is due $10 million and a pillow contract for Hoskins would likely run another $10 million.
Comments
https://mlbtraderumors.com/2023/12/cody-bellinger-reportedly-seeking-200mm-or-more-in-free-agency.html
That would then free up around $10 million (assuming the bat and starter cost about $14 million), which they could then spend on a DH.
Unfortunately, perennial All Star bats are often on their 2nd contract, and usually have no-trade clauses, and as has been well-documented, hitters don't want to play in Seattle. It reminds me of when they traded Randy Johnson...they got 3 very serviceable big leaguers who had solid careers, and RJ won a WS, several Cy's...the M's didn't want to pay a shitload of $$$ for a guy with a questionable back, and Randy wanted out. They got a "good" haul for him, but all anyone talks about is how Woodward got fleeced. His hand was forced.
They will never get close to equal value for Castillo, so I imagine it will happen soon..."Controllable"...They had three of the best hitters in the game in the 90's, and were short on pitching. Now they have the pitching but need bats, and no one wants to come here..."Sustainable, controllable" = mediocre...same as it ever was...
I still think they should deal one of the young arms for a controllable bat since they have a need for at least 2 bats (at a corner OF spot and DH....if Urias sticks at 3B for a year). Robbie Ray will come back in July or August and they could plug a spot with James Paxton, Alex Wood, or Clevinger on a 1 year deal with a club option for a 2nd year.
I don't fucking know. I'm pretty much in burn it down mode at this point. There's a way to put a contender on the field for peanuts the way the seem to want to, but it can't be done with half measures. If they want to go young and controllable and sustainable they might as well commit to it and that means dealing big contracts in exchange for those controllable players. Castillo is the biggest contract they have left that is moveable.
Billy became a legend, because he could field a winning club with a tiny payroll. It seems as if Stanton wants to do the same, with the same results...nonatty gif. It's like going to the casino...there is a chance to win big, you hope to at least break even, but the reality is that you won't.
This is (was) the year for the M's...they scraped and saved, pinched pennies for years, "club-friendly contracts" (throw that in with "controllable", "sustainable", and "54%"), the door is open, and they walked away and took a dump...
I'm as down on the M's as I've ever been right now...They have done everything to position themselves for this, painstakingly, over years/decades. the bride is in the honeymoon suite and ready to go, and they can't get it up and finish the job...fuck 'em...
The M's could plug at least one hole by trading for Max Kepler (due $10 mil in 2024 for age 31 season) and maybe even Jorge Polanco (due $10.5 million in 2024 for his age 30 season and $12 million team option for 2025).
$20.5 million could get 120-130 games from Kepler as a mildly plus fielder in RF and Polanco as a plus defender at 2B (can spell Crawford at SS too). Rojas and Urias could platoon at 3B while Ryan Bliss develops at 2B in AAA in case Polanco gets hurt.
M's wouldn't have to give up a top pitching prospect or top position prospect since it is a salary dump for the Twins. They might have to give a better position prospect if they want Minnesota to send along $3 to $5 million.
The M's could then spend the remaining $9.5 million of the freed-up $28 million by trading for Eloy Jimenez to be a thumper at DH. He's due $13.88 million in 2024 for his age 27 season and has a $3 million buyout for 2025 (or $16.5 million team option). Sox could send along $3 million and Jimenez for a pretty good M's prospect. Someone like OF Aidan Smith should get it done.
Otherwise, they can try to sign Jorge Soler to a 3 year, $45 million deal and try to back-load it so that they only pay him $11 or $12 million in 2024.
Short term contracts left on Kepler, Polanco, and Jimenez should appeal to ownership to plug some holes while allowing for more seasoning time to prospects (OF Clase, 3B/1B Locklear, SS/2B Bliss) and holding onto the pitching. Dylan Moore could then spell Kepler against LHP in RF and same for Canzano in RF while the other OF could be Marlowe or Trammell (still have hope for him).
Marlowe I actually liked but he was regressing with lightening speed when they sent him back down. I don't think he's an answer to anything either except in desperate times.
If they had a reasonable bench they would've made the playoffs. Trade middling prospects for a couple of solid bench guys and never suit up Trammell or Haggerty again!
I'm still not sure who they get for 1 1/2 outfielders though. Joc Pederson on a 2 year deal or Pham on a 1-year deal could work.