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Can we offer this Ukranian solider a scholarship?

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Comments

  • pawzpawz Member, Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 20,975 Founders Club

    Holy fuck guysm. Bandwidth Massacre, pun chintended,.


  • Bob_CBob_C Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 10,605 Swaye's Wigwam

    pawz said:

    46XiJCAB said:

    Goduckies said:

    pawz said:

    pawz said:

    Weird thread going on here. Even the dimmest of bulbs in America must be seeing that we should not send one more fucking dollar to Ukraine now. Jesus. If it's a whoosh thread, well OK. But this PGOS cunt needs to own up to it.

    Sad to see so called Americans bend over backwards to defend Russia of all fucking places.
    Welcome to 2015 Hillary

    Get some new material

    Russia Russia Russia led to covid covid covid led to Zelensky lighting his country on fire. Allegedly

    Maybe you and Vindman can get cocktails
    2015 Hillary was grasping at straws. It was fake news

    Russia actually invading their neighbors? Another Tuesday in world history
    Not under Trump

    If you weren't such a fucking blockhead you might get a clue

    Vindman and his ilk attacked American democracy just like they accused Trump

    I support America. Go suck Zelensky dick

    It all fake news. Hello?
    No shit. We agree on Trump.

    If you werent such a blockhead, youd understand that sometimes you cant have constant wet dreams about Trump and realize that life goes on
    So go ahead and reward the assholes who did it. Are you getting a cut or do you suck cock for free?


    It's all fucking fake.

    What is fucking fake about Russia being a constant menance to the world? Explain away that one...

    The isnt the first rodeo
    Ironic, because this describes you perfectly on this topic


    How so?

    Bob_C said:

    Bob_C said:

    Bob_C said:

    Weird thread going on here. Even the dimmest of bulbs in America must be seeing that we should not send one more fucking dollar to Ukraine now. Jesus. If it's a whoosh thread, well OK. But this PGOS cunt needs to own up to it.

    Sad to see so called Americans bend over backwards to defend Russia of all fucking places.
    Who has defended anything that Russia has done?
    A good number of people in this thread
    Provide a specific example. Sounds like there’s a lot to choose from so should be easy.

    Acknowledging the realities of the situation as it stands is not defending anything. You refusing to do that is just fandom, not analysis.

    Lots of "Russia had no choice, NATO is expanding" sob stories, without understanding why NATO exists in the first place

    Lots of "bio weapon labs" takes to justify the invasion

    Lots of "Ukraine is full of Nazis" takes because they have a few groups of paramilitary Neo Nazis like every other country, including Russia


    All excuses the Russians themselves use to justfiy invasion and genocide.

    No one but a select few buys it
    Many on here think it’s an unwinnable situation as it stands. You think it can be done with an unlimited budget and timeline and that we should be spending money for punitive punishment.
    Disagree.

    Ive said several times this is peanuts to the US and it doesnt involve US troops


    Hope this helps.

    It doesn't.

    Allowing Russia to continue to invade and bully their neighbors will cost FAR more in the long run.

    And might actually involve US troops doing the fighting and dying

    If we can supply Ukraine with older weapons and let them do the fighting against the Russian horde, why not?

    This is what Bot and I have been saying

    It sucks this happened, it sucks Biden and the Dems routinely have this shit happening because they dont take hardline stances, everything about it sucks. But the milk is spilled, and Russia is getting a lesson in fuck around and find out.

    You are so delusional you called my picture of blown up Russian armour propaganda.
    Ok they had the lesson now lets negotiate a damn end to this so innocents on both sides stop dying... this song describes it best...

    https://youtu.be/LQUXuQ6Zd9w
    The chickenhawks don't care who dies.

    As long as it isn't them or their kids. That's the clear moral view of a chickenhawk.
    The real chickenhawks are the ones bending over backwards to make excuses for Russia

    You know, the country who started this whole mess and has been killing, torturing, and raping civilians. Then deporting the surviving children to re education camps.

    This is an evil regime. Chickenhawks think that appeasement is the proper response.
    You need to get off the "making excuses" for Russia stuff. It makes you look fucking stupid. "Putin and Russia are evil." No shit man like none of us here have been around long enough to know that.

    You keep talking about raping, torture, killing of civilians as I talk about getting to the negotiating table and making peace to end it. But I'm the appeaser and Putin cocksucker? WTF is wrong with you?

    Ukraine is about to launch a major offensive with new and improved weapons versus what they have been using previously. They are in a position of strength here, and if they want to keep fighting versus appeasing the tyrannical regime that has raped their country, that is their call. I support their right to do that.

    You, and other, want to reward the aggressor with concessions and negotiations.

    LIFPO.
    The city of Bakhmut found this interpretation of the facts charming.

    Bakhmut is a city of 70k that Russia has spent 9 months trying to take, and still hasnt fully taken.

    You knew that, right?
    So why did Ukraine send lots of men there to defend and become encircled and die?

  • pawzpawz Member, Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 20,975 Founders Club

    pawz said:

    46XiJCAB said:

    Goduckies said:

    pawz said:

    pawz said:

    Weird thread going on here. Even the dimmest of bulbs in America must be seeing that we should not send one more fucking dollar to Ukraine now. Jesus. If it's a whoosh thread, well OK. But this PGOS cunt needs to own up to it.

    Sad to see so called Americans bend over backwards to defend Russia of all fucking places.
    Welcome to 2015 Hillary

    Get some new material

    Russia Russia Russia led to covid covid covid led to Zelensky lighting his country on fire. Allegedly

    Maybe you and Vindman can get cocktails
    2015 Hillary was grasping at straws. It was fake news

    Russia actually invading their neighbors? Another Tuesday in world history
    Not under Trump

    If you weren't such a fucking blockhead you might get a clue

    Vindman and his ilk attacked American democracy just like they accused Trump

    I support America. Go suck Zelensky dick

    It all fake news. Hello?
    No shit. We agree on Trump.

    If you werent such a blockhead, youd understand that sometimes you cant have constant wet dreams about Trump and realize that life goes on
    So go ahead and reward the assholes who did it. Are you getting a cut or do you suck cock for free?


    It's all fucking fake.

    What is fucking fake about Russia being a constant menance to the world? Explain away that one...

    The isnt the first rodeo
    Ironic, because this describes you perfectly on this topic


    How so?

    Bob_C said:

    Bob_C said:

    Bob_C said:

    Weird thread going on here. Even the dimmest of bulbs in America must be seeing that we should not send one more fucking dollar to Ukraine now. Jesus. If it's a whoosh thread, well OK. But this PGOS cunt needs to own up to it.

    Sad to see so called Americans bend over backwards to defend Russia of all fucking places.
    Who has defended anything that Russia has done?
    A good number of people in this thread
    Provide a specific example. Sounds like there’s a lot to choose from so should be easy.

    Acknowledging the realities of the situation as it stands is not defending anything. You refusing to do that is just fandom, not analysis.

    Lots of "Russia had no choice, NATO is expanding" sob stories, without understanding why NATO exists in the first place

    Lots of "bio weapon labs" takes to justify the invasion

    Lots of "Ukraine is full of Nazis" takes because they have a few groups of paramilitary Neo Nazis like every other country, including Russia


    All excuses the Russians themselves use to justfiy invasion and genocide.

    No one but a select few buys it
    Many on here think it’s an unwinnable situation as it stands. You think it can be done with an unlimited budget and timeline and that we should be spending money for punitive punishment.
    Disagree.

    Ive said several times this is peanuts to the US and it doesnt involve US troops


    Hope this helps.

    It doesn't.

    Allowing Russia to continue to invade and bully their neighbors will cost FAR more in the long run.

    And might actually involve US troops doing the fighting and dying

    If we can supply Ukraine with older weapons and let them do the fighting against the Russian horde, why not?

    This is what Bot and I have been saying

    It sucks this happened, it sucks Biden and the Dems routinely have this shit happening because they dont take hardline stances, everything about it sucks. But the milk is spilled, and Russia is getting a lesson in fuck around and find out.

    You are so delusional you called my picture of blown up Russian armour propaganda.
    Ok they had the lesson now lets negotiate a damn end to this so innocents on both sides stop dying... this song describes it best...

    https://youtu.be/LQUXuQ6Zd9w
    The chickenhawks don't care who dies.

    As long as it isn't them or their kids. That's the clear moral view of a chickenhawk.
    The real chickenhawks are the ones bending over backwards to make excuses for Russia

    You know, the country who started this whole mess and has been killing, torturing, and raping civilians. Then deporting the surviving children to re education camps.

    This is an evil regime. Chickenhawks think that appeasement is the proper response.
    You need to get off the "making excuses" for Russia stuff. It makes you look fucking stupid. "Putin and Russia are evil." No shit man like none of us here have been around long enough to know that.

    You keep talking about raping, torture, killing of civilians as I talk about getting to the negotiating table and making peace to end it. But I'm the appeaser and Putin cocksucker? WTF is wrong with you?

    Ukraine is about to launch a major offensive with new and improved weapons versus what they have been using previously. They are in a position of strength here, and if they want to keep fighting versus appeasing the tyrannical regime that has raped their country, that is their call. I support their right to do that.

    You, and other, want to reward the aggressor with concessions and negotiations.

    LIFPO.
    The city of Bakhmut found this interpretation of the facts charming.

    Bakhmut is a city of 70k that Russia has spent 9 months trying to take, and still hasnt fully taken.

    You knew that, right?
    LOL. Ok, chief.

  • PostGameOrangeSlicesPostGameOrangeSlices Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 26,200 Swaye's Wigwam
    pawz said:

    46XiJCAB said:

    46XiJCAB said:

    PGOS can continue to believe that Ukraine is going to push Russian troops back to Russia. It's a fantasy but nothing anyone poasts here will deter him from believing that. I'll continue to read and listen to people with rational takes on what's happening on the front and the likely outcome.




    You are retarded
    Gawd you're fucking thick. In 2022 Russia and Ukraine will working on a settlement that included Russia pulling back and Ukraine renouncing NATO aspirations. Then Boris. But do go on.
    Ukraine doesn't need to revoke NATO aspirations. Russia could BE in NATO if it wanted to.

    You are what is called a "useful idiot"
    Again, this is where your understanding of history fails you.

    Putin did in fact ask William Jefferson Clinton for Russia to join NATO and was rebuffed.

    Considering NATO's charter was to be a defense alliance the former Soviet Union, the joining of NATO by Russia would render the necessity of that charter inherently moot.

    Chess, not checkers.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule

    "Vladimir Putin wanted Russia to join Nato but did not want his country to have to go through the usual application process and stand in line “with a lot of countries that don’t matter”, according to a former secretary general of the transatlantic alliance.

    George Robertson, a former Labour defence secretary who led Nato between 1999 and 2003, said Putin made it clear at their first meeting that he wanted Russia to be part of western Europe. “They wanted to be part of that secure, stable prosperous west that Russia was out of at the time,” he said."


  • pawzpawz Member, Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 20,975 Founders Club

    pawz said:

    46XiJCAB said:

    46XiJCAB said:

    PGOS can continue to believe that Ukraine is going to push Russian troops back to Russia. It's a fantasy but nothing anyone poasts here will deter him from believing that. I'll continue to read and listen to people with rational takes on what's happening on the front and the likely outcome.




    You are retarded
    Gawd you're fucking thick. In 2022 Russia and Ukraine will working on a settlement that included Russia pulling back and Ukraine renouncing NATO aspirations. Then Boris. But do go on.
    Ukraine doesn't need to revoke NATO aspirations. Russia could BE in NATO if it wanted to.

    You are what is called a "useful idiot"
    Again, this is where your understanding of history fails you.

    Putin did in fact ask William Jefferson Clinton for Russia to join NATO and was rebuffed.

    Considering NATO's charter was to be a defense alliance the former Soviet Union, the joining of NATO by Russia would render the necessity of that charter inherently moot.

    Chess, not checkers.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule

    "Vladimir Putin wanted Russia to join Nato but did not want his country to have to go through the usual application process and stand in line “with a lot of countries that don’t matter”, according to a former secretary general of the transatlantic alliance.

    George Robertson, a former Labour defence secretary who led Nato between 1999 and 2003, said Putin made it clear at their first meeting that he wanted Russia to be part of western Europe. “They wanted to be part of that secure, stable prosperous west that Russia was out of at the time,” he said."


    Thanks for proving my poont. Much appreciated.

  • PostGameOrangeSlicesPostGameOrangeSlices Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 26,200 Swaye's Wigwam
    pawz said:

    pawz said:

    46XiJCAB said:

    46XiJCAB said:

    PGOS can continue to believe that Ukraine is going to push Russian troops back to Russia. It's a fantasy but nothing anyone poasts here will deter him from believing that. I'll continue to read and listen to people with rational takes on what's happening on the front and the likely outcome.




    You are retarded
    Gawd you're fucking thick. In 2022 Russia and Ukraine will working on a settlement that included Russia pulling back and Ukraine renouncing NATO aspirations. Then Boris. But do go on.
    Ukraine doesn't need to revoke NATO aspirations. Russia could BE in NATO if it wanted to.

    You are what is called a "useful idiot"
    Again, this is where your understanding of history fails you.

    Putin did in fact ask William Jefferson Clinton for Russia to join NATO and was rebuffed.

    Considering NATO's charter was to be a defense alliance the former Soviet Union, the joining of NATO by Russia would render the necessity of that charter inherently moot.

    Chess, not checkers.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule

    "Vladimir Putin wanted Russia to join Nato but did not want his country to have to go through the usual application process and stand in line “with a lot of countries that don’t matter”, according to a former secretary general of the transatlantic alliance.

    George Robertson, a former Labour defence secretary who led Nato between 1999 and 2003, said Putin made it clear at their first meeting that he wanted Russia to be part of western Europe. “They wanted to be part of that secure, stable prosperous west that Russia was out of at the time,” he said."


    Thanks for proving my poont. Much appreciated.

    I wanted to finance a house, but when asked to deal with lenders I walked away
  • PostGameOrangeSlicesPostGameOrangeSlices Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 26,200 Swaye's Wigwam

    I'm pro American unlike PGOS so when I engage in whataboutism it's to make a point, not condemn America

    The US has a long standing no malarkey rule for the western hemisphere

    Grenada, where we called in Clint Eastwood, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Peru, and Chile among others have met the CIA when the Soviets meddle

    Cuba was lost and democrats started supporting the Sandinista and Venezuela commies which makes things more difficult

    Note that the democrats party has not been outlawed even though they support our enemies

    Nobody was easier on the Soviets than Teddy and the gang

    It all matters for a long walk to get perspective

    I am pro America
  • PostGameOrangeSlicesPostGameOrangeSlices Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 26,200 Swaye's Wigwam
    Bob_C said:

    pawz said:

    46XiJCAB said:

    Goduckies said:

    pawz said:

    pawz said:

    Weird thread going on here. Even the dimmest of bulbs in America must be seeing that we should not send one more fucking dollar to Ukraine now. Jesus. If it's a whoosh thread, well OK. But this PGOS cunt needs to own up to it.

    Sad to see so called Americans bend over backwards to defend Russia of all fucking places.
    Welcome to 2015 Hillary

    Get some new material

    Russia Russia Russia led to covid covid covid led to Zelensky lighting his country on fire. Allegedly

    Maybe you and Vindman can get cocktails
    2015 Hillary was grasping at straws. It was fake news

    Russia actually invading their neighbors? Another Tuesday in world history
    Not under Trump

    If you weren't such a fucking blockhead you might get a clue

    Vindman and his ilk attacked American democracy just like they accused Trump

    I support America. Go suck Zelensky dick

    It all fake news. Hello?
    No shit. We agree on Trump.

    If you werent such a blockhead, youd understand that sometimes you cant have constant wet dreams about Trump and realize that life goes on
    So go ahead and reward the assholes who did it. Are you getting a cut or do you suck cock for free?


    It's all fucking fake.

    What is fucking fake about Russia being a constant menance to the world? Explain away that one...

    The isnt the first rodeo
    Ironic, because this describes you perfectly on this topic


    How so?

    Bob_C said:

    Bob_C said:

    Bob_C said:

    Weird thread going on here. Even the dimmest of bulbs in America must be seeing that we should not send one more fucking dollar to Ukraine now. Jesus. If it's a whoosh thread, well OK. But this PGOS cunt needs to own up to it.

    Sad to see so called Americans bend over backwards to defend Russia of all fucking places.
    Who has defended anything that Russia has done?
    A good number of people in this thread
    Provide a specific example. Sounds like there’s a lot to choose from so should be easy.

    Acknowledging the realities of the situation as it stands is not defending anything. You refusing to do that is just fandom, not analysis.

    Lots of "Russia had no choice, NATO is expanding" sob stories, without understanding why NATO exists in the first place

    Lots of "bio weapon labs" takes to justify the invasion

    Lots of "Ukraine is full of Nazis" takes because they have a few groups of paramilitary Neo Nazis like every other country, including Russia


    All excuses the Russians themselves use to justfiy invasion and genocide.

    No one but a select few buys it
    Many on here think it’s an unwinnable situation as it stands. You think it can be done with an unlimited budget and timeline and that we should be spending money for punitive punishment.
    Disagree.

    Ive said several times this is peanuts to the US and it doesnt involve US troops


    Hope this helps.

    It doesn't.

    Allowing Russia to continue to invade and bully their neighbors will cost FAR more in the long run.

    And might actually involve US troops doing the fighting and dying

    If we can supply Ukraine with older weapons and let them do the fighting against the Russian horde, why not?

    This is what Bot and I have been saying

    It sucks this happened, it sucks Biden and the Dems routinely have this shit happening because they dont take hardline stances, everything about it sucks. But the milk is spilled, and Russia is getting a lesson in fuck around and find out.

    You are so delusional you called my picture of blown up Russian armour propaganda.
    Ok they had the lesson now lets negotiate a damn end to this so innocents on both sides stop dying... this song describes it best...

    https://youtu.be/LQUXuQ6Zd9w
    The chickenhawks don't care who dies.

    As long as it isn't them or their kids. That's the clear moral view of a chickenhawk.
    The real chickenhawks are the ones bending over backwards to make excuses for Russia

    You know, the country who started this whole mess and has been killing, torturing, and raping civilians. Then deporting the surviving children to re education camps.

    This is an evil regime. Chickenhawks think that appeasement is the proper response.
    You need to get off the "making excuses" for Russia stuff. It makes you look fucking stupid. "Putin and Russia are evil." No shit man like none of us here have been around long enough to know that.

    You keep talking about raping, torture, killing of civilians as I talk about getting to the negotiating table and making peace to end it. But I'm the appeaser and Putin cocksucker? WTF is wrong with you?

    Ukraine is about to launch a major offensive with new and improved weapons versus what they have been using previously. They are in a position of strength here, and if they want to keep fighting versus appeasing the tyrannical regime that has raped their country, that is their call. I support their right to do that.

    You, and other, want to reward the aggressor with concessions and negotiations.

    LIFPO.
    The city of Bakhmut found this interpretation of the facts charming.

    Bakhmut is a city of 70k that Russia has spent 9 months trying to take, and still hasnt fully taken.

    You knew that, right?
    So why did Ukraine send lots of men there to defend and become encircled and die?

    Bide time


    They also aren't encircled
  • PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 44,238 Standard Supporter
    edited March 2023
    Goduckies said:

    RoadTrip said:

    RoadTrip said:

    Lol never once said anything remotely to this and 100% Zelensky can fuck the fuck off with this shit.
    Not aimed at you

    I get your argument

    Just don't agree

    In a vacuum sure fuck Russia

    But it's not a vacuum

    America first
    Russia is 100% intent on the downfall of the US and the system that enabled us to become #1. They've been doing everything they can to aid China in their quest to create a "multipolar" world devoid of a superpower aka The US. They literally state as much.

    It's cute people in here think they don't have a problem with Russians. Russians have a problem with us. Reminds me of RIP @CirrhosisDawg trying to apologize for ChYnA. Complete with citing sources being paid and bought for.

    Ukraine ain't my friend, but I'll gladly hand them the brass knuckles to go fight the other gang in my neighborhood...even if they get shot for it.

    Tldr it serves US interests to watch Russia go down a peg or three on the international stage.

    Anywho, @RaceBannon we can disagree. Some retards in here ain't cut out for the higher level realpolitik discussion board.
    I don't understand why you believe an America first position is somehow support for Russia. I asked PGOS the same question and received no response. Please show 1 just 1 staement in more than 50 pages of a SINGLE position of Russian support. You have a worldview which says fight Russia and there is no room for any alternative. There is but it won't stop you from accusing your opposition of sucking Putin's cock. Unbelievable but then again I saw 5 people wearing masks in their cars alone on I-5 this morning.
    America can give a few billions out of an outrageous DOD budget to Ukraine, especially when it's preventing Russia from USSR 2.0 aspirations

    Additionally, it has the added benefit of showing the world that 80s American tech is better than what Russia can field in 2023 (for the most part).

    America has a lot of domestic problems, of which this is a sideshow in comparison to.

    It's a win/win situation in many ways for America to supply Ukraine here.
    Thank you for considerate discussion. A few billion is one thing but several hundred and potential troops is quite another. Not saying we're there yet so please don't twist. I just don't see how this ends well the more entrenched we become. I never thought I'd be a pacifist but the older I get the more I am and I don't trust our government. The stories coming out on Vindman prove how corrupt our is and the support for Ukraine and war with Russia are fraught with fraud.
    My issue is what is the endgame? And what if Ukraine really starts kicking butt and Putin ratchets it up.... we don't want nukes, even tactical ones. Putin has fought this war without those... let's not provoke him.
    I was told US F22's could wipe Russia off the face of the earth.

    No way they'd press the nuke button as their country is obliterated. No way in hell. Right?

    But itSaul Goodman if Zelensky wants to call for tactical use of nuclear weapons.

    Putin Bad/Z Man good.

  • PostGameOrangeSlicesPostGameOrangeSlices Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 26,200 Swaye's Wigwam

    Goduckies said:

    RoadTrip said:

    RoadTrip said:

    Lol never once said anything remotely to this and 100% Zelensky can fuck the fuck off with this shit.
    Not aimed at you

    I get your argument

    Just don't agree

    In a vacuum sure fuck Russia

    But it's not a vacuum

    America first
    Russia is 100% intent on the downfall of the US and the system that enabled us to become #1. They've been doing everything they can to aid China in their quest to create a "multipolar" world devoid of a superpower aka The US. They literally state as much.

    It's cute people in here think they don't have a problem with Russians. Russians have a problem with us. Reminds me of RIP @CirrhosisDawg trying to apologize for ChYnA. Complete with citing sources being paid and bought for.

    Ukraine ain't my friend, but I'll gladly hand them the brass knuckles to go fight the other gang in my neighborhood...even if they get shot for it.

    Tldr it serves US interests to watch Russia go down a peg or three on the international stage.

    Anywho, @RaceBannon we can disagree. Some retards in here ain't cut out for the higher level realpolitik discussion board.
    I don't understand why you believe an America first position is somehow support for Russia. I asked PGOS the same question and received no response. Please show 1 just 1 staement in more than 50 pages of a SINGLE position of Russian support. You have a worldview which says fight Russia and there is no room for any alternative. There is but it won't stop you from accusing your opposition of sucking Putin's cock. Unbelievable but then again I saw 5 people wearing masks in their cars alone on I-5 this morning.
    America can give a few billions out of an outrageous DOD budget to Ukraine, especially when it's preventing Russia from USSR 2.0 aspirations

    Additionally, it has the added benefit of showing the world that 80s American tech is better than what Russia can field in 2023 (for the most part).

    America has a lot of domestic problems, of which this is a sideshow in comparison to.

    It's a win/win situation in many ways for America to supply Ukraine here.
    Thank you for considerate discussion. A few billion is one thing but several hundred and potential troops is quite another. Not saying we're there yet so please don't twist. I just don't see how this ends well the more entrenched we become. I never thought I'd be a pacifist but the older I get the more I am and I don't trust our government. The stories coming out on Vindman prove how corrupt our is and the support for Ukraine and war with Russia are fraught with fraud.
    My issue is what is the endgame? And what if Ukraine really starts kicking butt and Putin ratchets it up.... we don't want nukes, even tactical ones. Putin has fought this war without those... let's not provoke him.
    I was told US F22's could wipe Russia off the face of the earth.

    No way they'd press the nuke button as their country is obliterated. No way in hell. Right?

    But itSaul Goodman if Zelensky wants to call for tactical use of nuclear weapons.

    Putin Bad/Z Man good.

    The Russian military. Not Moscow

    Hth
  • pawzpawz Member, Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 20,975 Founders Club

    pawz said:

    pawz said:

    46XiJCAB said:

    46XiJCAB said:

    PGOS can continue to believe that Ukraine is going to push Russian troops back to Russia. It's a fantasy but nothing anyone poasts here will deter him from believing that. I'll continue to read and listen to people with rational takes on what's happening on the front and the likely outcome.




    You are retarded
    Gawd you're fucking thick. In 2022 Russia and Ukraine will working on a settlement that included Russia pulling back and Ukraine renouncing NATO aspirations. Then Boris. But do go on.
    Ukraine doesn't need to revoke NATO aspirations. Russia could BE in NATO if it wanted to.

    You are what is called a "useful idiot"
    Again, this is where your understanding of history fails you.

    Putin did in fact ask William Jefferson Clinton for Russia to join NATO and was rebuffed.

    Considering NATO's charter was to be a defense alliance the former Soviet Union, the joining of NATO by Russia would render the necessity of that charter inherently moot.

    Chess, not checkers.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule

    "Vladimir Putin wanted Russia to join Nato but did not want his country to have to go through the usual application process and stand in line “with a lot of countries that don’t matter”, according to a former secretary general of the transatlantic alliance.

    George Robertson, a former Labour defence secretary who led Nato between 1999 and 2003, said Putin made it clear at their first meeting that he wanted Russia to be part of western Europe. “They wanted to be part of that secure, stable prosperous west that Russia was out of at the time,” he said."


    Thanks for proving my poont. Much appreciated.

    I wanted to finance a house, but when asked to deal with lenders I walked away
    No one asks Warren Buffet for his tax returns.

    Either the goal is peace with Russia or it's something else.

    So far its something else.

  • PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 44,238 Standard Supporter

    Goduckies said:

    RoadTrip said:

    RoadTrip said:

    Lol never once said anything remotely to this and 100% Zelensky can fuck the fuck off with this shit.
    Not aimed at you

    I get your argument

    Just don't agree

    In a vacuum sure fuck Russia

    But it's not a vacuum

    America first
    Russia is 100% intent on the downfall of the US and the system that enabled us to become #1. They've been doing everything they can to aid China in their quest to create a "multipolar" world devoid of a superpower aka The US. They literally state as much.

    It's cute people in here think they don't have a problem with Russians. Russians have a problem with us. Reminds me of RIP @CirrhosisDawg trying to apologize for ChYnA. Complete with citing sources being paid and bought for.

    Ukraine ain't my friend, but I'll gladly hand them the brass knuckles to go fight the other gang in my neighborhood...even if they get shot for it.

    Tldr it serves US interests to watch Russia go down a peg or three on the international stage.

    Anywho, @RaceBannon we can disagree. Some retards in here ain't cut out for the higher level realpolitik discussion board.
    I don't understand why you believe an America first position is somehow support for Russia. I asked PGOS the same question and received no response. Please show 1 just 1 staement in more than 50 pages of a SINGLE position of Russian support. You have a worldview which says fight Russia and there is no room for any alternative. There is but it won't stop you from accusing your opposition of sucking Putin's cock. Unbelievable but then again I saw 5 people wearing masks in their cars alone on I-5 this morning.
    America can give a few billions out of an outrageous DOD budget to Ukraine, especially when it's preventing Russia from USSR 2.0 aspirations

    Additionally, it has the added benefit of showing the world that 80s American tech is better than what Russia can field in 2023 (for the most part).

    America has a lot of domestic problems, of which this is a sideshow in comparison to.

    It's a win/win situation in many ways for America to supply Ukraine here.
    Thank you for considerate discussion. A few billion is one thing but several hundred and potential troops is quite another. Not saying we're there yet so please don't twist. I just don't see how this ends well the more entrenched we become. I never thought I'd be a pacifist but the older I get the more I am and I don't trust our government. The stories coming out on Vindman prove how corrupt our is and the support for Ukraine and war with Russia are fraught with fraud.
    My issue is what is the endgame? And what if Ukraine really starts kicking butt and Putin ratchets it up.... we don't want nukes, even tactical ones. Putin has fought this war without those... let's not provoke him.
    I was told US F22's could wipe Russia off the face of the earth.

    No way they'd press the nuke button as their country is obliterated. No way in hell. Right?

    But itSaul Goodman if Zelensky wants to call for tactical use of nuclear weapons.

    Putin Bad/Z Man good.

    The Russian military. Not Moscow

    Hth
    Sure.gif

    Like the US military industrial complex has restrained itself in lobbing bombs into populated areas. Ka ching! on the reorders.


  • PostGameOrangeSlicesPostGameOrangeSlices Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 26,200 Swaye's Wigwam
    pawz said:

    pawz said:

    pawz said:

    46XiJCAB said:

    46XiJCAB said:

    PGOS can continue to believe that Ukraine is going to push Russian troops back to Russia. It's a fantasy but nothing anyone poasts here will deter him from believing that. I'll continue to read and listen to people with rational takes on what's happening on the front and the likely outcome.




    You are retarded
    Gawd you're fucking thick. In 2022 Russia and Ukraine will working on a settlement that included Russia pulling back and Ukraine renouncing NATO aspirations. Then Boris. But do go on.
    Ukraine doesn't need to revoke NATO aspirations. Russia could BE in NATO if it wanted to.

    You are what is called a "useful idiot"
    Again, this is where your understanding of history fails you.

    Putin did in fact ask William Jefferson Clinton for Russia to join NATO and was rebuffed.

    Considering NATO's charter was to be a defense alliance the former Soviet Union, the joining of NATO by Russia would render the necessity of that charter inherently moot.

    Chess, not checkers.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule

    "Vladimir Putin wanted Russia to join Nato but did not want his country to have to go through the usual application process and stand in line “with a lot of countries that don’t matter”, according to a former secretary general of the transatlantic alliance.

    George Robertson, a former Labour defence secretary who led Nato between 1999 and 2003, said Putin made it clear at their first meeting that he wanted Russia to be part of western Europe. “They wanted to be part of that secure, stable prosperous west that Russia was out of at the time,” he said."


    Thanks for proving my poont. Much appreciated.

    I wanted to finance a house, but when asked to deal with lenders I walked away
    No one asks Warren Buffet for his tax returns.

    Either the goal is peace with Russia or it's something else.

    So far its something else.

    For the record, I think NATO should've bent over backwards to let them in

    But at the same time, at some point paperwork has to be filled out. Every other country did it in short order, even Turkey

    Despite your best efforts Russia has no one to blame but itself, and if they wanted into NATO theyd be in NATO.

    Instead they want to invade their neighbors
  • RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 106,018 Founders Club

    I'm pro American unlike PGOS so when I engage in whataboutism it's to make a point, not condemn America

    The US has a long standing no malarkey rule for the western hemisphere

    Grenada, where we called in Clint Eastwood, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Peru, and Chile among others have met the CIA when the Soviets meddle

    Cuba was lost and democrats started supporting the Sandinista and Venezuela commies which makes things more difficult

    Note that the democrats party has not been outlawed even though they support our enemies

    Nobody was easier on the Soviets than Teddy and the gang

    It all matters for a long walk to get perspective

    I am pro America
    Disagree
  • PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 44,238 Standard Supporter
    pawz said:

    pawz said:

    pawz said:

    46XiJCAB said:

    46XiJCAB said:

    PGOS can continue to believe that Ukraine is going to push Russian troops back to Russia. It's a fantasy but nothing anyone poasts here will deter him from believing that. I'll continue to read and listen to people with rational takes on what's happening on the front and the likely outcome.




    You are retarded
    Gawd you're fucking thick. In 2022 Russia and Ukraine will working on a settlement that included Russia pulling back and Ukraine renouncing NATO aspirations. Then Boris. But do go on.
    Ukraine doesn't need to revoke NATO aspirations. Russia could BE in NATO if it wanted to.

    You are what is called a "useful idiot"
    Again, this is where your understanding of history fails you.

    Putin did in fact ask William Jefferson Clinton for Russia to join NATO and was rebuffed.

    Considering NATO's charter was to be a defense alliance the former Soviet Union, the joining of NATO by Russia would render the necessity of that charter inherently moot.

    Chess, not checkers.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule

    "Vladimir Putin wanted Russia to join Nato but did not want his country to have to go through the usual application process and stand in line “with a lot of countries that don’t matter”, according to a former secretary general of the transatlantic alliance.

    George Robertson, a former Labour defence secretary who led Nato between 1999 and 2003, said Putin made it clear at their first meeting that he wanted Russia to be part of western Europe. “They wanted to be part of that secure, stable prosperous west that Russia was out of at the time,” he said."


    Thanks for proving my poont. Much appreciated.

    I wanted to finance a house, but when asked to deal with lenders I walked away
    No one asks Warren Buffet for his tax returns.

    Either the goal is peace with Russia or it's something else.

    So far its something else.

    Ka Ching! is the something else.
  • RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 106,018 Founders Club
    Military force to defend America is dangerous and needs to be thought through. It was just 4 Americans kidnapped today anyway.



    One of the tells of the global elite is that they are against anything that actually might help America. Useless endless wars are GOOD though

    Border wall BAD
  • PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 44,238 Standard Supporter

    Military force to defend America is dangerous and needs to be thought through. It was just 4 Americans kidnapped today anyway.



    One of the tells of the global elite is that they are against anything that actually might help America. Useless endless wars are GOOD though

    Border wall BAD
    So America hating fuckfact Adam Kinzinger is in the 'do nothing/status quo' camp.

    What's the going shill rate for cartels these days? Could one make a living doing just that?

    Fuck the cartels. Any means necessary to throttle their asses.

  • RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 106,018 Founders Club

    Military force to defend America is dangerous and needs to be thought through. It was just 4 Americans kidnapped today anyway.



    One of the tells of the global elite is that they are against anything that actually might help America. Useless endless wars are GOOD though

    Border wall BAD
    So America hating fuckfact Adam Kinzinger is in the 'do nothing/status quo' camp.

    What's the going shill rate for cartels these days? Could one make a living doing just that?

    Fuck the cartels. Any means necessary to throttle their asses.

    The Governor's office in Arizona

    Allegedly
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