The defense of Lebron has become as ridiculous as the hate. For 10 of the final 12 quarters of this series he was terrible. You can bullshit all you want about supporting cast. He didn't play well enough to win.
This is a good point. Looking at the stats, LeBron played well. However when watching, he didn't play well. He was good in the first two games, the cramps were unfortunate. He wasn't good in game 3 with 7 TO's and getting vastly outplayed by Leonard. Game 4, he scored 19 of his 28 in the third quarter when the game was essentially over, and he played great in the first quarter today. Very empty stats and he was terrible in the third quarter today and way too passive.
The whole Heat team sucked the whole series, but he didn't play well. His defense was really bad too and pretty uncharacteristic. Patty Mills blowing by LeBron for a lay in is inexcusable. Same with having your hand down on Leonard and Green 3's. That Cuban video is fine, but can you really say it looked like LeBron was dialed in and ready to compete every possession. I can't excuse coasting in the Finals by somebody that talented, and his effort on defense was shitty.
The defense is a really good point. He was lazy on defense all year. His second team all defense this year was a Derek Jeter Gold Glove level joke. Everyone just assumed he would turn it on at some point but he never did.
When Jordan retired Pippen was probably the 3rd best player in the game behind Olajuwon and Ewing. Pippen often gets downplayed by the Jordan dick riders I noticed.
I also don't think if you switch Jordan in his prime they win this series. Lebron had his best Finals offensively so what more could have MJ done? I feel like this thread needs to re-watch this video
You guys are pulling a Bayless with this shit of "Jordan would have willed his team, he would have wanted it more".
This Spurs team is better than any team Jordan has ever defeated in his career. That's a fact. They had an 8.0 SRS rating for this year which is pretty fucking good.
Jordan you all forget before Pippen got good couldn't get past great teams on his own and was 1-9 in the first round before Pippen was drafted.
Also I think Jordan had a better supporting cast than this current Heat team. Pippen in any of those 6 titles was better than this years Wade. Ron Harper although on the downside was better than Chalmers/Cole. Grant/Rodman vs Bosh is whatever you prefer. Bosh better offensively but those two were better defenders/rebounders. Cartwright/Longley sadly are better than any big man Miami has currently.
Bench? Kukoc in 1996-98 is better than 2014 Ray Allen. Steve Kerr this current Heat team doesn't even have a Steve Kerr(I guess Cole?).
You guys are reminding me of Doogman with this shit. It's classic First Take narrative let's be lazy and blame the super star and act like Magic, Bird, MJ and Kobe(In my opinion doesn't belong with those three yet his fans constantly insist that he does) never ever had a bad moment. Magic never got swept in the finals in 1983 and 1989, never lost in the playoffs in 5 games in 1985, 1990 or 1991. Bird never repeated as a champion but that is ignored same with his first title someone else won Finals MVP.
The Jazz were a 7.97 SRS team in 97 and got knocked out in six games. You're putting a hell of a lot of weight in 0.03 points of SRS. 4-2 against 7.97 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1-4 against 8.00.
You're right there's too much criticism being heaped at Lebron, but if you insist on comparing him to Jordan he's going to continue to look like shit. Jordan >>>>>>>>>>> Lebron.
I'm using the Hugh Millen eye test when I say this Spurs team is better than that Jazz team.
Also I think Jordan is better than Lebron. I don't think Jordan in his prime on this Heat they win the series against the Spurs. Just my opinion as I think Lebron played a good series I really do. In 2011 he didn't and I was there to throw stones towards him.
I really don't think that. These Spurs are too deep, too team oriented, too focused, well coached and they spent 12 months wanting Miami. They looked like a team wanting revenge, while Miami looked like a tired ass team who just played four straight finals.
Hugh Millen's eye test picks a Utah team every time.
whitey
We should all be embarrassed of not have picked up on that.
If Miami's supporting cast is so bad, how did they win the past two championships? Before this series, the narrative was that Wade looked his best in 3 years. Then he has a couple bad games and he's completely washed up. He averaged 19 a game on 55% shooting this season. He's not Dwayne Wade from 2006, but he's still a good player. Last year Ginobili was washed up after playing shitty in the Finals, this year he's somehow better. That's the fickle nature of sports.
Chris Bosh isn't worth his contract, but he's a good player. Hits open jumpers, plays solid defense, isn't selfish. Ray Allen will always hit open 3's. He's a liability on defense, but he was last year too. I couldn't believe how well Lewis played against Indiana and he played decent early in this series. Battier went from being useful last year to completely washed up this year. He hit 6 3's in game 7 last year. Birdman is a solid back up big guy who sometimes changes games with his effort and hustle.
Chalmers and Cole aren't good, but people were praising Cole's defense before this series. Chalmers has been a key component to their championship teams and always seemed to have a big game or 2 when the Heat needed it. The Heat need to make some tweaks, but this is far from a terrible supporting cast. LeBron is lumped in with the rest of them. There wasn't one guy on the Heat that played well this series despite LeBron's empty stats.
Miami's supporting cast, almost in its entirety got a year older and worse. Wade, Battier, Allen, Haslem were all clearly worse. Lets remember that SA should have won in 6 last year. Miami clearly peaked the year before that, got some luck last year and was on the decline this year.
Miami's supporting cast, almost in its entirety got a year older and worse. Wade, Battier, Allen, Haslem were all clearly worse. Lets remember that SA should have won in 6 last year. Miami clearly peaked the year before that, got some luck last year and was on the decline this year.
THIS. Not one Miami player who is better in 2014 than he was in 2013. Not one.
Miami's supporting cast, almost in its entirety got a year older and worse. Wade, Battier, Allen, Haslem were all clearly worse. Lets remember that SA should have won in 6 last year. Miami clearly peaked the year before that, got some luck last year and was on the decline this year.
THIS. Not one Miami player who is better in 2014 than he was in 2013. Not one.
Miami's supporting cast, almost in its entirety got a year older and worse. Wade, Battier, Allen, Haslem were all clearly worse. Lets remember that SA should have won in 6 last year. Miami clearly peaked the year before that, got some luck last year and was on the decline this year.
while he played an outstanding game 7, I don't really give lebron a whole lot of credit for last year. That said he's the best player in the league, but he isn't close to Jordan. Lebron was not good in the last few minutes of game 6 and allen saved him. 2011 also never happens to Jordan either.
Lebron wouldn't have even won a 2nd title if it wasn't for his team last finals... But let's ignore that and only use the team argument when it is conveinant.
No one is saying he is bad, he just isn't on the level of Jordan, Duncan, Magic etc. All the greats.
We always hear about how he makes his team soooo much better yet when he has lackluster defense that same argument doesn't apply?
He is 2-3 in the finals. 5-11 against the Spurs in the finals.
He isn't this mythical figure of a player everyone makes him out to be yet. He still has a chance to get there, but if this finals showed me anything its that he is soft compared to most of the players he is trying to reach.
This might be the worst meme ever. The Bulls went to game 6 in the Finals in 5 of their 6 title years.
If it said game 7 it would be pretty good. That pic of MJ and Pippen is classic.
Word. Had to give myself a WTF for that. Just saw it on Twitter and thought it was hilarious, it was on the internet so of course I assumed it was true.
This might be the worst meme ever. The Bulls went to game 6 in the Finals in 5 of their 6 title years.
If it said game 7 it would be pretty good. That pic of MJ and Pippen is classic.
Not to mention one game six Bulls trailed by 15, Phil emptied bench plus Pippen, they pull within six then Jordan comes in, next game 6 Paxson hits game winning three, then next game six then beat Seattle despite Jordan going 5-19, Kerr hits game winner in following game 6, then MJ hits game winner in game 6.
Not like MJ never needed help in those game 6 wins. If Allen's three dismissed Lebron's ring then does Paxson or Kerr?
Some are reaching Skip BaylessFS territory in this thread.
This might be the worst meme ever. The Bulls went to game 6 in the Finals in 5 of their 6 title years.
If it said game 7 it would be pretty good. That pic of MJ and Pippen is classic.
Not to mention one game six Bulls trailed by 15, Phil emptied bench plus Pippen, they pull within six then Jordan comes in, next game 6 Paxson hits game winning three, then next game six then beat Seattle despite Jordan going 5-19, Kerr hits game winner in following game 6, then MJ hits game winner in game 6.
Not like MJ never needed help in those game 6 wins. If Allen's three dismissed Lebron's ring then does Paxson or Kerr?
Some are reaching Skip BaylessFS territory in this thread.
So if you dismiss those it will still be 5-1.
My issue with Lebron fans is it's always the "his team sucks" card and then when you point out his team helped him win a ring it's "big deal? every great needed their teammates at some point".
Lebron isn't an all time great yet, still has a lot of time but HE NEEDS MORE TIME (LOL!!1!).
This might be the worst meme ever. The Bulls went to game 6 in the Finals in 5 of their 6 title years.
If it said game 7 it would be pretty good. That pic of MJ and Pippen is classic.
Not to mention one game six Bulls trailed by 15, Phil emptied bench plus Pippen, they pull within six then Jordan comes in, next game 6 Paxson hits game winning three, then next game six then beat Seattle despite Jordan going 5-19, Kerr hits game winner in following game 6, then MJ hits game winner in game 6.
Not like MJ never needed help in those game 6 wins. If Allen's three dismissed Lebron's ring then does Paxson or Kerr?
Some are reaching Skip BaylessFS territory in this thread.
So if you dismiss those it will still be 5-1.
My issue with Lebron fans is it's always the "his team sucks" card and then when you point out his team helped him win a ring it's "big deal? every great needed their teammates at some point".
Lebron isn't an all time great yet, still has a lot of time but HE NEEDS MORE TIME (LOL!!1!).
I keep hearing that LeBron makes his teammates better too...
This might be the worst meme ever. The Bulls went to game 6 in the Finals in 5 of their 6 title years.
If it said game 7 it would be pretty good. That pic of MJ and Pippen is classic.
Not to mention one game six Bulls trailed by 15, Phil emptied bench plus Pippen, they pull within six then Jordan comes in, next game 6 Paxson hits game winning three, then next game six then beat Seattle despite Jordan going 5-19, Kerr hits game winner in following game 6, then MJ hits game winner in game 6.
Not like MJ never needed help in those game 6 wins. If Allen's three dismissed Lebron's ring then does Paxson or Kerr?
Some are reaching Skip BaylessFS territory in this thread.
The big obvious difference is Chicago wouldn't have been going home if they ended up losing those game 6's. MJ's teammates helped him close out those series. Allen's three saved Lebron from losing it.
Things are always going to look different when your backs are against the wall.
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Chris Bosh isn't worth his contract, but he's a good player. Hits open jumpers, plays solid defense, isn't selfish. Ray Allen will always hit open 3's. He's a liability on defense, but he was last year too. I couldn't believe how well Lewis played against Indiana and he played decent early in this series. Battier went from being useful last year to completely washed up this year. He hit 6 3's in game 7 last year. Birdman is a solid back up big guy who sometimes changes games with his effort and hustle.
Chalmers and Cole aren't good, but people were praising Cole's defense before this series. Chalmers has been a key component to their championship teams and always seemed to have a big game or 2 when the Heat needed it. The Heat need to make some tweaks, but this is far from a terrible supporting cast. LeBron is lumped in with the rest of them. There wasn't one guy on the Heat that played well this series despite LeBron's empty stats.
THIS. Not one Miami player who is better in 2014 than he was in 2013. Not one.
That said he's the best player in the league, but he isn't close to Jordan. Lebron was not good in the last few minutes of game 6 and allen saved him. 2011 also never happens to Jordan either.
No one is saying he is bad, he just isn't on the level of Jordan, Duncan, Magic etc. All the greats.
We always hear about how he makes his team soooo much better yet when he has lackluster defense that same argument doesn't apply?
He is 2-3 in the finals. 5-11 against the Spurs in the finals.
He isn't this mythical figure of a player everyone makes him out to be yet. He still has a chance to get there, but if this finals showed me anything its that he is soft compared to most of the players he is trying to reach.
Lordy, Lordy, Lordy.
If Oden achieved half of his potential, he'd still be in Portland.
"If Oden had reached his potential he'd still be on that western conference team that was better than the 96 Sonics."
If it said game 7 it would be pretty good. That pic of MJ and Pippen is classic.
Not like MJ never needed help in those game 6 wins. If Allen's three dismissed Lebron's ring then does Paxson or Kerr?
Some are reaching Skip BaylessFS territory in this thread.
My issue with Lebron fans is it's always the "his team sucks" card and then when you point out his team helped him win a ring it's "big deal? every great needed their teammates at some point".
Lebron isn't an all time great yet, still has a lot of time but HE NEEDS MORE TIME (LOL!!1!).
Things are always going to look different when your backs are against the wall.