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Elon Musk is a fraud...
HoustonHusky
Member Posts: 5,999
in Tug Tavern
The guy has made billions off of the back of govt grants, and is about ready to bankrupt 3 companies while keeping most of the money for himself. Its absolutely nuts. Sad thing is if Hillary is elected she'll probably bail him out at the taxpayers expense...I'd hope Trump wouldn't be dumb enough to do the same (I give it a 50/50 chance...of course he'll probably force Musk to build/move a factory to Detroit or Ohio to claim a win).
And the fact he hid the investigation into the fatal Tesla crashes until after he used Tesla's stock to buy his cousin's SolarCity business should land him in jail...but it won't.
Some background for those who are interested:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-faces-cash-squeeze-at-tesla-solarcity-1472687133 (go through Google, search "Elon Musk Faces Cash Squeeze at Tesla, SolarCity" to get to the article...)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-06/how-elon-musk-used-broken-marketplace-play-us-all
(the part that should piss everybody off...)
Tesla borrowed Venture Capital (VC) money from Elon Musk at VC rates. It borrowed VC money from taxpayers at non-VC rates
Tesla needed $500MM to get started in 2008. The US Government lent $465MM to Tesla at 3% interest under its push for Green Energy. Elon Musk lent the company $38MM at10% interest plus stock options. Here are the profits on those loans:
◦Elon Musk’s $38MM generates profit of $1.4BB, or 3,600% ROR- a VC payout
◦Taxpayers’ $465MM- generates profits of $12MM or 2.6%ROR- not a VC Payout
Taxpayers took VC risk without VC returns. The table is set for Elon to arbitrage the Government’s largesse much more. All in, the US Government committed about $4.9BB to finance Tesla’s operations
And it gets worse from there...
And the fact he hid the investigation into the fatal Tesla crashes until after he used Tesla's stock to buy his cousin's SolarCity business should land him in jail...but it won't.
Some background for those who are interested:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-faces-cash-squeeze-at-tesla-solarcity-1472687133 (go through Google, search "Elon Musk Faces Cash Squeeze at Tesla, SolarCity" to get to the article...)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-06/how-elon-musk-used-broken-marketplace-play-us-all
(the part that should piss everybody off...)
Tesla borrowed Venture Capital (VC) money from Elon Musk at VC rates. It borrowed VC money from taxpayers at non-VC rates
Tesla needed $500MM to get started in 2008. The US Government lent $465MM to Tesla at 3% interest under its push for Green Energy. Elon Musk lent the company $38MM at10% interest plus stock options. Here are the profits on those loans:
◦Elon Musk’s $38MM generates profit of $1.4BB, or 3,600% ROR- a VC payout
◦Taxpayers’ $465MM- generates profits of $12MM or 2.6%ROR- not a VC Payout
Taxpayers took VC risk without VC returns. The table is set for Elon to arbitrage the Government’s largesse much more. All in, the US Government committed about $4.9BB to finance Tesla’s operations
And it gets worse from there...
Comments
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You're voting for Trump because he'll be harsher against someone abusing bankruptcy law?
For fucks sake man. -
Reading is hard.
It has nothing to do with bankruptcy laws...has everything to do with stupid "green energy" loans for otherwise worthless businesses.
HTHs...
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I guess it is hard because you didn't even read the first blob of shit in your own shit post.HoustonHusky said:Reading is hard.
It has nothing to do with bankruptcy laws...has everything to do with stupid "green energy" loans for otherwise worthless businesses.
HTHs... -
No politician will do the right thing and tell him to fuck off, because it's bad politics.
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Nope, and yes you are a moron for thinking so.BallSacked said:
I guess it is hard because you didn't even read the first blob of shit in your own shit post.HoustonHusky said:Reading is hard.
It has nothing to do with bankruptcy laws...has everything to do with stupid "green energy" loans for otherwise worthless businesses.
HTHs...
Risky investments are risky...that's the entire point of junk bonds/higher interest rates. They pay more because there is a much greater risk of them failing. People loaning Trump money at a 14% interest rate (and getting equity stakes) is not the same as the govt loaning a start-up company money at 3% and getting no equity share.
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It isn't the government's money to loan in the first place.
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Fuck off with the corporate finance lecture tequila.HoustonHusky said:
Nope, and yes you are a moron for thinking so.BallSacked said:
I guess it is hard because you didn't even read the first blob of shit in your own shit post.HoustonHusky said:Reading is hard.
It has nothing to do with bankruptcy laws...has everything to do with stupid "green energy" loans for otherwise worthless businesses.
HTHs...
Risky investments are risky...that's the entire point of junk bonds/higher interest rates. They pay more because there is a much greater risk of them failing. People loaning Trump money at a 14% interest rate (and getting equity stakes) is not the same as the govt loaning a start-up company money at 3% and getting no equity share. -
That said, I really like Elon Musk. He's building a zippy tube!
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The gov't does shit like this all the time to influence our economy.HoustonHusky said:
Nope, and yes you are a moron for thinking so.BallSacked said:
I guess it is hard because you didn't even read the first blob of shit in your own shit post.HoustonHusky said:Reading is hard.
It has nothing to do with bankruptcy laws...has everything to do with stupid "green energy" loans for otherwise worthless businesses.
HTHs...
Risky investments are risky...that's the entire point of junk bonds/higher interest rates. They pay more because there is a much greater risk of them failing. People loaning Trump money at a 14% interest rate (and getting equity stakes) is not the same as the govt loaning a start-up company money at 3% and getting no equity share.
They wanted more US producers of alternative energy, so they made loans available to help that happen.
If you disagree with that, that is fine.
But you act like you don't understand why they loaned him the money. So either you are retarded, or you hope your readers are. -
BallSacked said:
Fuck off with the corporate finance lecture tequila.HoustonHusky said:
Nope, and yes you are a moron for thinking so.BallSacked said:
I guess it is hard because you didn't even read the first blob of shit in your own shit post.HoustonHusky said:Reading is hard.
It has nothing to do with bankruptcy laws...has everything to do with stupid "green energy" loans for otherwise worthless businesses.
HTHs...
Risky investments are risky...that's the entire point of junk bonds/higher interest rates. They pay more because there is a much greater risk of them failing. People loaning Trump money at a 14% interest rate (and getting equity stakes) is not the same as the govt loaning a start-up company money at 3% and getting no equity share.
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Elon Musk creates cool shit.
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It's too bad he has to steal from people to do so.ThomasFremont said:Elon Musk creates cool shit.
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You mean like all of the military contractors creating weapons that the Military doesn't want? Are those military contractors every paying us back?PurpleJ said: -
The govt doesn't just hand out $150+ billion to private individuals/industries on a daily basis for the heck of it, and the fact you think that is ok is just nuts.OZONE said:
The gov't does shit like this all the time to influence our economy.HoustonHusky said:
Nope, and yes you are a moron for thinking so.BallSacked said:
I guess it is hard because you didn't even read the first blob of shit in your own shit post.HoustonHusky said:Reading is hard.
It has nothing to do with bankruptcy laws...has everything to do with stupid "green energy" loans for otherwise worthless businesses.
HTHs...
Risky investments are risky...that's the entire point of junk bonds/higher interest rates. They pay more because there is a much greater risk of them failing. People loaning Trump money at a 14% interest rate (and getting equity stakes) is not the same as the govt loaning a start-up company money at 3% and getting no equity share.
They wanted more US producers of alternative energy, so they made loans available to help that happen.
If you disagree with that, that is fine.
But you act like you don't understand why they loaned him the money. So either you are retarded, or you hope your readers are.
I love how Liberals think it makes sense for the govt to subsidize $100,000 coal-powered cars. -
I love how Conservatives think it makes sense for the govt to subsidize $100,000,000 fighter jets that don't work and that the Military didn't want.HoustonHusky said:
The govt doesn't just hand out $150+ billion to private individuals/industries on a daily basis for the heck of it, and the fact you think that is ok is just nuts.OZONE said:
The gov't does shit like this all the time to influence our economy.HoustonHusky said:
Nope, and yes you are a moron for thinking so.BallSacked said:
I guess it is hard because you didn't even read the first blob of shit in your own shit post.HoustonHusky said:Reading is hard.
It has nothing to do with bankruptcy laws...has everything to do with stupid "green energy" loans for otherwise worthless businesses.
HTHs...
Risky investments are risky...that's the entire point of junk bonds/higher interest rates. They pay more because there is a much greater risk of them failing. People loaning Trump money at a 14% interest rate (and getting equity stakes) is not the same as the govt loaning a start-up company money at 3% and getting no equity share.
They wanted more US producers of alternative energy, so they made loans available to help that happen.
If you disagree with that, that is fine.
But you act like you don't understand why they loaned him the money. So either you are retarded, or you hope your readers are.
I love how Liberals think it makes sense for the govt to subsidize $100,000 coal-powered cars. -
They do for the oil & gas industry. You're cool with that though, obv.HoustonHusky said:
The govt doesn't just hand out $150+ billion to private individuals/industries on a daily basis for the heck of it, and the fact you think that is ok is just nuts.OZONE said:
The gov't does shit like this all the time to influence our economy.HoustonHusky said:
Nope, and yes you are a moron for thinking so.BallSacked said:
I guess it is hard because you didn't even read the first blob of shit in your own shit post.HoustonHusky said:Reading is hard.
It has nothing to do with bankruptcy laws...has everything to do with stupid "green energy" loans for otherwise worthless businesses.
HTHs...
Risky investments are risky...that's the entire point of junk bonds/higher interest rates. They pay more because there is a much greater risk of them failing. People loaning Trump money at a 14% interest rate (and getting equity stakes) is not the same as the govt loaning a start-up company money at 3% and getting no equity share.
They wanted more US producers of alternative energy, so they made loans available to help that happen.
If you disagree with that, that is fine.
But you act like you don't understand why they loaned him the money. So either you are retarded, or you hope your readers are.
I love how Liberals think it makes sense for the govt to subsidize $100,000 coal-powered cars.
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And Freeme is voting for Gary Johnson.
"lol" -
The subject is stealing from taxpayers.PurpleJ said:
That is what the military contractors and their shills in congress are doing.
Where is your outrage?
I guess I shouldn't expect any from a hypocrite. -
More proof you are pretty clueless. The largest of those credits is for producing "nonconventional" (i.e. green) fuels that they also mandate.BallSacked said:
They do for the oil & gas industry. You're cool with that though, obv.HoustonHusky said:
The govt doesn't just hand out $150+ billion to private individuals/industries on a daily basis for the heck of it, and the fact you think that is ok is just nuts.OZONE said:
The gov't does shit like this all the time to influence our economy.HoustonHusky said:
Nope, and yes you are a moron for thinking so.BallSacked said:
I guess it is hard because you didn't even read the first blob of shit in your own shit post.HoustonHusky said:Reading is hard.
It has nothing to do with bankruptcy laws...has everything to do with stupid "green energy" loans for otherwise worthless businesses.
HTHs...
Risky investments are risky...that's the entire point of junk bonds/higher interest rates. They pay more because there is a much greater risk of them failing. People loaning Trump money at a 14% interest rate (and getting equity stakes) is not the same as the govt loaning a start-up company money at 3% and getting no equity share.
They wanted more US producers of alternative energy, so they made loans available to help that happen.
If you disagree with that, that is fine.
But you act like you don't understand why they loaned him the money. So either you are retarded, or you hope your readers are.
I love how Liberals think it makes sense for the govt to subsidize $100,000 coal-powered cars.
And yes, its FS. Especially the fact that we burn 40% of our corn crops as fuel. -
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Ballfag shows his ignorance
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Yet Tesla paid off the government loan 9 years early. I'm sure you had some whacked out conservative bullshit point. But no one else but Race sees what it is.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-05-22/tesla-pays-off-its-465-million-loser-loan
PS: Race doesn't really understand anything, he just chimes in to call "liberals" ignorant. -
So vote Trump?PurpleJ said:It isn't the government's money to loan in the first place.
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J likes to think Trump has never received government assistance.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
So vote Trump?PurpleJ said:It isn't the government's money to loan in the first place.
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Yup, that money belongs to the FEDPurpleJ said:It isn't the government's money to loan in the first place.
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A hearty thanks for Race and CuntWaffle for their service to these boreds.
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If you think opening your eyes is pressing, then you probably also think Sark teams were known for were known for suffocating defenses.CuntWaffle said:
